Lancia Motor Club

I have had my 1970 HF 1600 for a month now and jobs done so far are:

drip tray repaired under carbs
Carbs fitted with new gaskets and refurb kit installed (they were leaking)
new carb to manifold rubber - ouch this was expensive
refurbished engine breather can
stay bolt from engine to air filter repaired and actually connected - hence whyI guess the carb rubbers were splitting
new air filter - ouch again
air filter housing resprayed, was rusting inside from condensate coming from engine via non serviceable breather can
headlights replaced with RHD units (car imported from holland) - outers only
headlights upgraded and new wiring with relays - massive improvement in light output, highly recommended
silver top facet installed for priming after lay up
MoT
UK registered
new fuel pipes
new windscreen washer pipes and this afternoon, I finally got round to compression testing my new baby.

Car is on original engine (1970) and has done around 70,000km's according to the (massive) paperwork file the engine has never been apart - and the results are:

#1 = 210 psi
#2 = 200 psi
#3 = 205 psi
#4 = 195 psi

I am assuming that this indicates the engine is in good health?

off to look at all the suspension rubber bushes now to check if any need replacing.

car drives beautifully, good job as I drove it back from Holland after purchase!

headlights upgraded and new wiring with relays - massive improvement in light output, highly recommended


What did that entail?

basically I bought new outer RHD headlight lights (can't remember the brand) but think any 51/4" lights fit, this gives you new reflectors, then I bought a set of osram night breaker from euro car parts, they had a 60% off sale on over xmas, H1 for the inner lights and H4 for the outer, (I stuck with the OE inner bowls even thought the reflectors are getting a little dull with age now, then the smart bit I bought a new loom from ebay - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/H4-Headlight-Relay-Wiring-Harness-System-2Headlamp-Light-Bulb-Fix-Dim-Light-fo12/272828977933?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/H4-Headlight-Relay-Wiring-Harness-System-2Headlamp-Light-Bulb-Fix-Dim-Light-fo12/272828977933?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649) basically this takes a live feed direct from the battery to the lights via a set of relays and also your original loom plugs into it to activate the relays, so when you turn on the lights as usual, the relays are activated and you get a direct feed with very little voltage drop direct to your lights, voila very bright lights as you have uprated (but legal) bulbs with no voltage drop.

I have done the same upgrade on my Alfa GT junior and also Duetto to equally good effect, in fact the lancia is much better as it has quad main beam with the H4's and H1's all activated on main beam.

I don't know about the absolute values one way or the other but the compressions look nice and even.

Compressions very impressive indeed!   Youy would usually recon about 10 bar - 150 psi so you are doing very well.   

Must admit, the values are better than mine ! They do seem good and consistent across the bores - don't touch and enjoy ! Does the engine use any oil ?

Interesting mod on the lights - seems very reasonable price-wise as well

Thanks for the feedback on the compression test results, very happy with them as stand alone values, now even happier when compared to the forum expertise, no doesn't use any oil so it will be spanner free :)

cheers

John

Not wishing to be a great nuisance, however very high compression values might indicate a lot of carbon deposits inside the chambers and on the valve faces. Not unusual if the carburation was not working properly. However, I would just keep an eye on the situation without taking the head off. Andrea

is it worth using one of the additives that are supposed to clean up carbon deposits combined with an "italian" tune up ? I do think it has been running a bit rich (not checked the mixture yet, but seems to be on idle, on a proper run (before compression test) the spark plugs are very clean and nice colour, but initially before carb overhaul they were pretty black (the carb overhaul was seals and new float needle valves as it was leaking fuel underneath). Or just not worry as correct mixture and time and decent runs will correct??

Many years ago i used a holts decarboniser,  i shot a load of it down each plug hole of a poor unsuspecting Austin A30. Next morning I spun  it over with the plugs out, soaking up the remains with a rag over each plug hole.
I then started the car and the street disappeared in a huge cloud of smoke akin to a very good 1950's smog. After the cloud of smoke dispersed, I took it out into the nearby countryside, an ran it until there was no more smoke.
Afterwards there was a distinct improvement.
Although I think a drop of diesel left in the cylinders overnight has a similar result.
Brian
8227 :o

Hi John
The compressions are very high for a road engine, you would struggle to get those on a race engine running about 11/12:1 compression ratio. Maybe your gauge isn't reading correct. However they are even so that is good.
I wouldn't use any of those DIY chemicals as you will run the risk of dislodging chunks of carbon which can easily stick on a valve seat and cause a loss of compression and necessitate head removal. As Andrea said use it, give a long hard run of 15 to 20 miles and then adjust the mixture etc if need be.

I wondered about the high figures. Time to calibrate I suspect. What kit did you use as I am thinking of getting a tester for my HF engine (narrow spark plug thread)?
Tim

Thanks, I think a good run is the answer, it has just driven back from Holland so it got a pretty good run then!! I used a halford compression tester I have had for about 20 years, plus I bought an appropriate thread adaptor for the gunsons compression tester which fitted the halfords kit a treat - the gunsons adaptor is after all just an adaptor from one spark plug thread to another.

the initial tests (first run) were similar spread but about 180 psi - 190 psi, then I did a second test and finally a third when I got my best readings, maybe the car had drawn so much fuel in by then it was equivalent to a wet test, when you add oil to get a second figure sealed by the oil??

I remember first time we put the Lambda angine together (about 1965) having liberally oiled everything.  She also disappeared in a cloud of blue smoke and was driven to the end of the road to wait until it had cleared.   She was promptly named f*rting Annie.  Happy days!

Using a standard optic probe through the plug holes, it is possible to inspect the condition of the chambers. If the cylinder head had been skimmed one or more times, that is another reason to raise the compression values. Andrea

Experience tells me that particularly when one obtains an unusually high or low reading of any parameter from an uncalibrated instrument, one should always double check the reading using an instrument which has been calibrated.
Only then does the reading become valid.
Chris

Changing direction slightly - optic probes - I have seen somewhere that you can have a bluetooth probe that connects to your phone ..... anyone tried/can recommend one ?

I bought a cheapie on ebay which connects to my laptop and gives good pics and you can look backwards with a mirror attachement. Care to pick one that goes down the hole....

pic

I have a device that once upon a time was used to gaze into the bladder (remnant of a Medical life!)

do you have a link to said probe, looks a god bit of kit and if its cheap ....... thanks John

There are many to choose from on ebay.co.uk. Just search

I have just done a compression test on 1970 1.6 HF, and thought it may be a useful comparison.

#1 230psi
#2 210psi
#3 220psi
#4 220psi

 Higher than I anticipated. Carburation not yet fully set up, so possibly a bit of carbon around. Car has not been used much and is at 28km. Ignition was signicantly retarded, so this may be a contributing factor.

Hi Charles, great result and totally in line with mine, so all the comments around far too high, it looks like, on a sample of two cars that around 200 + - 20% psi is what we should be aiming for :)

I was running the car last saturday (prescot classic day) on std petrol and when the engine was lugging it was pinking a bit, I then put tesco super in it and all pinking disappeared and it runs very well now. I did two runs up the hill, and it was flying, no pinking at all, and a fellow club member was my passenger and he rally's an HF 1600 and he commented on how strong my engine felt, so I am happy with my results and you should be happy with yours as well :)

Thanks for the comments. It is interesting to make comparisons, especially as there are not many of these cars around.
High octane fuel is always going to be better for a given ignition advance.
I would love to use the car in the situation described, or at the LMC trackday, once I am happy with how it is set up........patience in the meantime!

1600s were originally specified to run on high octane fuel - minmum 95 as I remember whereas pool petrol is 94 or less.  I always run mine on high octane, not only does it not pink but also it will run up to full revs rather than fading out at 5,000 rpm.