Lancia Motor Club

Hi all,
The headlamps on my 1972 Sport have a small bayonet fitting 2W (I think!) bulb in addition to the main headlamp bulb.  Is this what is referred to as a parking light? They don't seem to work, I'd assumed they came on with the sidelights but they don't. 

I was looking to improve the brightness of my dipped beams which are quite yellow and noticed these additional bulbs.  So if anyone could confirm how these lights should operate I'd be grateful.

They are c 5w side lights but the ones generally wired are within the Renault 16 indicator/side light unit at the front. I decided to wire these secondary side lights in parallel just because they were there.

You may want to re silver the reflectors if you dont have enough brightness from the head lights. I find my car has quite acceptable lights - far better than some of my other Lancias. You can cut the glass off the reflector body. If you need new glasses look for Ami8!

Thanks Tim, they are wired up and I've put new 4W bulbs in but nothing doing.  More investigation with a multimeter required!

The full beam is nice and white but the dipped beam isn't, so I wondered if that pointed to a high resistance somewhere?

The same headlamp units fitted to the S1 Sport require these bulbs as sidelights.  The S1 simply has indicator units fitted in the front panel, and not the dual side-light / indicators of the Renault units fitted to the S2 cars.

Regards - Roddy

Hi I posted in my recent compression test results thread on the upgrades I carried out for my 1970 HF 1600 here is the post - basically I bought new outer RHD headlight lights (can't remember the brand) but think any 51/4" lights fit, this gives you new reflectors, then I bought a set of osram night breaker from euro car parts, they had a 60% off sale on over xmas, H1 for the inner lights and H4 for the outer, (I stuck with the OE inner bowls even thought the reflectors are getting a little dull with age now, then the smart bit I bought a new loom from ebay - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/H4-Headlight-Relay-Wiring-Harness-System-2Headlamp-Light-Bulb-Fix-Dim-Light-fo12/272828977933?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 basically this takes a live feed direct from the battery to the lights via a set of relays and also your original loom plugs into it to activate the relays, so when you turn on the lights as usual, the relays are activated and you get a direct feed with very little voltage drop direct to your lights, voila very bright lights as you have uprated (but legal) bulbs with no voltage drop.

I have done the same upgrade on my Alfa GT junior and also Duetto to equally good effect, in fact the lancia is much better as it has quad main beam with the H4's and H1's all activated on main beam.

I bought new headlights from Omicron - don't know if they still have them - and fitted 100/80 watt bulbs.

I think i am right in saying that will likely fry your wiring. 8.3 amp draw per main beam versus 4.6 and if you wire up the inner and outer as main beam thats 33amps versus 18 amps, a big difference running 100 amp plus they are illegal for highway use and will blind other drivers.  the beauty of the system i talked about is that you take the current draw direct from the battery via a dedicated feed. but your call.

Are you running an upgraded alternator? Also 100w bulbs can damage your reflectors in the long run, the extra relays with good quality H4 & H1 bulbs gives an excellent result as long at the headlamp units are in good condition.

Thanks all, a new battery feed direct to the H4 lamp switched via relay from existing wiring sounds a good way to go.

While on the subject of Sport headlights let me mention another problem. In my experience the front glasses are very vulnerable to damage from even small stones. I never did get round to fitting Perspex covers and suffered damage to several units in the time I ran my car. New units made by Valeo used to be available, but I think that source dried up a long time ago.

It now seems that people are re-silvering reflectors or gluing new reflectors to existing glasses, which sounds fine, as long as the glasses are undamaged. I just happen to have two pairs of old and tarnished units, but with good undamaged glasses – two are convex and two are concave. The concave types were once quite common on Fulvias – I think they might have also been used on a Renault, whereas the convex ones may have also been used by Citroen.

Might these units be of interest to forum members? If so, please make me offers.

Colin

Are these different from the ubiquitous oblong headlights of the period? I know there used to be two sizes and the less wide ones were most common, appearing on Escorts and Vivas. The wider ones were used on mark 1 Granadas and were rarer.

Yes! Concave were Renault 12and 16 and convex Citroen Ami 8 or was it 6. Not Dagenham product

I have Ford Escort ones fitted to my S1.  The original were concave and these are not. Apart from that, as I recall, they were a direct replacement.

on my s2 which I just imported into the UK I changed the outer units from lhd to rhd and they are just standard width units - I think they are 5 1/4 or 5 1/2 units i will check the boxes when I next go to the garage, easy to fit - just slotted straight in, all fixings completely transferrable, lugs matched etc, cheap and readily available.

Coupe is 5/14 round (easy to get Cibie etc with correct fitting pattern). Sport is Oblong - much more difficult. Would be interested in the Escort solution....

These are quoted as replacement for Fulvia Zagato headlamps, this site has more headlamp options too, but as noted may not be the same curvature as the originals.

https://www.franzose.de/en/Renault/Alle/Scheinwerfer-Zubehoer-Halterungen/ANR85230/

Originally R16/12 were concave as currently sold on Renault 16 shop https://www.renault16shop.com/0870030600. The Franzose site seems to imply convex lenses but I note that they are continental not "universal" which were common on Sports where you could turn the beam pattern to Left of Right by twisting the bulb carrier.

ah ha hadn't realised it was a coupe with oblong, all power to your search

The De Franzose lights look exactly like the Cibie units I had fitted to my Sport. It’s good that they are still available, but at 200+ Euros each plus P&P it might be that the old units that I have will be of interest to someone who wants to try re-silvering.

Another option might be to search a breaker’s yard for a Gulf GT40 or Porsche Le Mans car! See photos.

Colin

So, the Franzose lights are continental ie dont have the little right  --> arrow showing the correct dipped beam pattern for UK. My Sport has dual ie <----> being able to make both patterns. I dont think I have ever seen a Sport headlight with the ---> on it but they must have been made??? Compare my headlight with the Franzose pic for different lens pattern.

Sadly the nice new old stock Lucas Brighteyes halogen headlights I have seem to be the wrong size being the smaller ones that fit Triumph Toledo, Chrysler Avenger (super and deluxe) and Ford Capri (1970-71) rather than the wider size that fits Escort, Viva and half the other cars of the '60s and '70s. It seems the depth of the bowls is an issue between different cars too.

The lens patterns do look different and I think the pattern of the Cibie/ Valeo units on my car may be different again. Maybe it doesn’t matter that much because it is possible to get an asymmetric dipped beam for RHD by modifying the slots in the bulb-holder so that it can be rotated a few more degrees. Anyway, the glasses on the used units that I am offering are correct for UK RHD use. I can send photos to anyone who is interested.

Colin