Lancia Motor Club

Hi
Will be trying to get this little beauty back on the road but might be a long distance affair as it is in Hartlepool and there will be no room at the new house in Scarborough still it has a nice dry home for the next couple of months
Clarkey

Only a flying visit today but just had time to crack the wheel bolts off on the front passenger wheel...this is not moving so will be the first place to start.
Had an ocean of grief with a Fiat Stilo wheel bolt that had snapped off so was mighty relieved when with the assistance of the car wheel brace and my trolley jack handle they all came loose..
Clarkey

Here's a picture of the owner's document pack which is on its' was to you.

Lovely can't wait!!!

All arrived safely...

Had a quick look at the caliper today....the locking sliding things came out very easily and still had copper grease on but the caliper is jammed on the disc so will need the full works to remove it...the flexihose is a gonner so it will be all off and start from scratch. Had a result with the heater fan that was sounding like a coffee grinder I just swapped it for the spare that came with the car. The indicators don't work but the hazards do if you hold the switch in. The front sidelamp is not working because someone has cut the bulbholder off the loom??? Has anyone got a wiring diagram? the earth trees are in a poor state and will need reterminating.
Clarkey

Hi all
Got the caliper off and freed up the pads regreased and back on.. the little car pushes around just fine...perhaps a test drive round the site is in order
Clarkey

Lashed out £5 on 2 bent bits of wire from Halfords so I can get the radio out as I have a Sony minidisc/radio to go in

Postman Pat delivered this today as the light switch stalk had been snapped off
Clarkey

Familiar looking box? Supplier based in Berlin by any chance? I just had a pair of wheel arch liners delivered in something like than for the Alfa 159 Q4.. £34 for two including postage!
Guy

That will be them ...they carry a very good range of spares some of my marking fees will be heading their way
Clarkey

Quick job swap the radio??? no chance this is a Lancia...being 30 years + old the radio wiring is rudimentary and does not match up to the newer MD player I had doing nothing so I will have to spend a bit more time wiring it in properly not with @taped@ joints see pic
Clarkey

radio is in but stays on all the time as it needs to be powered via a switchable power source....5 minute job... bonus was a Paul Weller minidisc that had been left in by the ebay seller.
Clarkey

You got me looking up minidisks - launched in 1999

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHwMWmTXziI

I'm just sad I have 2 MD walkmans, 2 MD/radios for cars, a MD autochanger for the car, a Sony MD mini Hi Fi system (£4 from a car boot sale) and a full size Sony Hi Fi deck. I prefer them as you can only squeeze about 5 albums on at the most rather than 20 zillion like a MP3 player so you can actually find what you want to listen to. Can't wait to get the autochanger set up!!!
Clarkey

A gallon of petrol, a quick charge up of the battery, connect the choke cable, clean out the filter and bodge the air filter clip...started first go. I knew it ran but after 10 laps of the unit taken carefully as the brake pedal has no travel and only a slight bit of retardation?? master cylinder?? the little beast was ticking over nicely. The electric fan was cutting in but the gauge stayed in the middle and we had no boiling over...
First impressions...it is nice to have a Lancia that starts and runs...bumpy a bit noisy but great fun..I had forgotten how tiny these cars are. However good things must come to an end..at the Clarkey Chicane I missed getting into 3rd from 2nd and being in neutral and going a bit fast jabbed the brakes so of course the dodgy caliper I loosened off last week developed a grip of death on the disc and the fun was over for now.
Clarkey

Great news!!!

some pics of the 10 laps day... the car is running in the last picture honest...
Clarkey

might go up on Thursday for a play if it stays dry as big brother needs to come out and get put on a recovery wagon for a trip to Scarborough

Many thanks to Frank who made the trek to the North to drop of a set of alloys and some other spares for the Y10. When we were up moving the Appia I thought I could start the Y10 and give it a few laps of the circuit round the workshops...alas all I got was a loud click so stuck the battery on charge and manhandled the little beast out into the corridor and had another go once the Appia had been set on the way to Scarborough...still just a loud click...we rocked the car in gear but still no joy so the starter motor may have to come out.

Bad earth?
Corroded Earth cable at car end, not unknown on Dedra of similar vintage.
Brian
8227 8)

update
checked the battery and earth leads seemed fine except the battery lead connection on the starter was loose inside the solenoid casing so I extracted the motor... quite easy 3 bolts and the cables and will test it against a spare one that came with the car.
Clarkey

Hi all
well the spare starter spun up quite well so a possibility...the original is a bit poorly as it draws a lot of current to pull in the solenoid and the motor spins slowly. They both have problems with the threaded studs coming out of the end of the solenoid being loose...I might have to take one apart.
Clarkey

On closer inspection the original starter is in better condition so will give it a try tomorrow

back to square one...put the starter back in just clicking as before...
 >:(

Always one for a laugh when I left the Y10 to sulk on Sunday I was upset to find I was locked in at the Workshop site...rang the boys in blue and they said it did not class as an emergency and they did not keep a list of the keyholder so I should ring a locksmith...rang the site manager straight to answer phone...Hmmm sure someone will come in it was only 13.30....another hour and I was trying to think if I had left any tools in the unit as I had taken most of them to Scarborough so I could saw through the chain to get the padlock off. Matron however advised me to ring the Fire Brigade.  What a result they had me free in less than 5 minutes!
Clarkey alias The Hartlepool One

A quick run up with a bit of scaffold and you'd been over in no time.

some good news Postman Pat has delivered a big heavy parcel...

Early Xmas present

more

hope that solves the issues mate, nice to get pressies from the postie that are so useful  ;D

Santa's elves have been busy....the little beast turned over and fired up nice result!
Clarkey

BRILLIANT NEWS!!!    Id there a way to post video?   Perhaps on facebook and a link back.

Well done - just details now and an MOT .....

Hmmm change the front springs and shocks,sort the sticking caliper, new brake hoses, master cylinder, wheel cylinders, brake shoes, brake limiter, possibly the servo, steering column stalks, rear light lens, fix the sidelights, change the hazard warning switch, get the alloys refurbed and new tyres. patch a few holes up, new wiper blade, change the oil and filters, new top hose and new antifreeze, change gearbox oil, but most important get some decent speakers for the stereo!!!
Clarkey

Not much done of late as my dear old Mum who has been ill for some time has passed away so it will be a few weeks till everything is sorted...however E55 EBL had a late Christmas pressie to smarten the alloy wheels up with... a set of 4 new centre caps from Ebay.
Clarkey

update
Just so the Y10 would not sulk I made an effort and started it up yesterday and had fun doing 3 point turns in the unit...boy the steering is heavy as I think some or all of the brakes are sticking on. I ran it long enough for the temperature gauge to reach the middle setting and the rad fan to cut in so should be OK for now.
Clarkey

The steering is heavy at manoeuvring speed. I ran my Fire on the original 135 section tyres for a long time which helped.

had a quick go at sorting the brakes so I can get the car moved...took the calipers off so I can clean and overhaul them when I noticed a split CV boot but I can leave this till the car gets home as I don't have a full set of tools on site

there's more...

Thank goodness for Ebay I was looking to buy a caliper as one was well seized and managed to get a new? one for £8 plus delivery result...should get the brakes sorted over the weekend and possibly get it trailered down to Scarborough next week. With the airline I blew out the other piston cleaned it up some new seals and we are good to go
Clarkey.

Hmmm...can't get the bolt out that holds the clip that fastens the flexi hose to the hub...also the brake pipe is held onto the body by a cable tie I think there should be a clip that locks the flexi cable to the bracket in the wheelarch...as well as that the copper brake pipe has corroded to the banjo thing and the whole lot is turning so will have to give it a bit of heat...really wanted to get the brakes back together so I could move the car as I will be starting my exam marking in a couple of weeks...Arrgh
Clarkey
the minidisc player I fitted is great  :) :) :)

There's a metal "P" clip that bolts to the strut to hold the brake flexi pipe. I'll try and get a picture for you.

Thanks Frank...are any new ones available? I think there might be one on the passenger side.
Clarkey

Like this/

Nothing that sophisticated Tim. It's just a flat strip of tin wrapped round the flexi pipe, pinched together at the ends with a hole to bolt it to the strut. I haven't ever seen new ones but it would be simple enough to make.

Like this.

The suggested new clips position can be seen top left holding the pipe to the bracket, with small hole showing.
Brian
8227  8)

Fay is right it is the top left one... I've found a source on ebay so I'll buy a set of 4. The clip Frank mentions I can't get off as the bolt is seized a bit of heat when I get up there next week should shift it.
Clarkey

If any one else needs some
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4X-CLASSIC-FIAT-500-126-900-600-BRAKE-PIPE-HOSE-CLIP-LANCIA-ALFA-ROMEO-X1-9/323313220957

I tried too post earlier but got booted out. I realised I was thinking of the attachment for the flexi hose itself rather than the journal to the brake pipe and acknowledged that Tim was correct.

Moral use a spanner the right size...the flexipipe clips are off so I managed to get one caliper back on still need the heat on the flexi to metal brake pipe as the union is corroded to the copper pipe and threatening to snap it so  will have to go easy on that one.The new clips work a treat
Clarkey

Hi all
Managed to get the other caliper on after a bit of heat loosened the flexi to metal pipe union...will try and get the brakes bled this week.
Clarkey

only a few months later!!! I managed to get all the front hoses and calipers back together and bled the front brakes single handed (Terry is in Vietnam!) using one of those very useful Gunson Eezibleed gadgets. The pedal felt a bit soft but a couple of pumps must of pushed the piston up against the pads and the pedal went firm. Must try and get a run round the block to give them a test. Dunno when...moving house soon but at least I will be only 30 minutes away.
Merry Xmas all
Clarkey

All progress is progress...  Hope the move goes smoothly.

To make room for the sulking or is it hulking Appia the Y10 had to be put back on it's wheels and put through a 32 point turn to get it out into the corridor of the unit. We then tried to run it up and down the corridor but the combination of sticking rear brakes and not being able to tickover was very frustrating. I took a back wheel off and the drum is very reluctant to turn so it will have to come off. Question is the lumpy/non-existent tickover due to a) petrol gone off or b)a blocked jet?
Clarkey

Do you have an ultrasonic cleaning bath?  Can the carb be a "kitchen table" project rather than in the cold 100 miles from home?

Hi all
The drum has surrendered to a bashing from an aluminium club hammer and revealed the shoes looked to have been replaced but did not have a chamfer on the leading and trailing edges so making the drum a tight fit. After a bit more walloping with the hammer the drum was back on and with the wheel bolts lightly tightened the drum was quite free. So 10 laps of the compound later the brakes were functioning but the other rear drum was getting hot so that will need to come off sometime. Unfortunately 10 laps did not clear the blockage if there is one in the carb so question is can we drain the tank and clear the carb out and with some fresh petrol cure the cutting out after the engine has warmed up and the choke is pushed in.
Hi David
All the tools are now at the unit awaiting our move sometime around the end of the month so I will get a little playabout when the Appia is delivered on Friday.
Clarkey

Definitely his best side...

Just a though has anyone got one of those alloys going spare...on his bad side he has a steel wheel from a Panda!!!

...and rear bumper?

I of course have some of those wheels spare and a (possibly new) spare back bumper. They are down in Bedfordshire but you they and much more are available. It might be worth a day trip.

After the house move on the 31st I will have to persuade my mate Terry he needs to take his E Class Merc for a proper run out...

No news on the project I saw it today but was too busy joinering to give the poor thing any attention.
Clarkey

Managed a 3 mile drive round the unit as it is about .3 of a mile right round it so was 10 laps...bit lumpy and the brakes are not very good servo not working? still the little beast got a nice run about before it started raining. Also had a go at swapping out the hazard warning switch as it was jamming and the flasher unit was going haywire Noticed all the dashboard lights bar one had given up the ghost so will change the bulbs out before I put the dash back together.
Clarkey

A picture tells a thousand words

the piccy needs viewing from the side on...needed 6 little bulbs and I lost one of the screws down the inside of the steering column...will find it tomorrow as I will probably change the column stalks as the light one has snapped off. Good news a quick clean of the bulb contacts and all 4 indicators work apart from one side indicator, the hazards are working thanks to Franks new switch so just need to sort the drivers side side/head lights and change the rear passenger lens. New wipers and tyres will be next.
Clarkey

It's interesting that it seems to be the brown plastic stalks that snap. Both the cars I have broken with brown interiors had snapped steering collumn stalks but none of the black plastic ones have suffered in this way.

Next job

These resistor things get hot and smokey with the ignition left on what are they for? And as for these 'earth' trees I will have to come up with a better solution.
Clarkey

new light cluster... no reversing light on this one and it needed a separate earth for the rear fog to work...luckily a previous custodian had done this for the one I took off Result!

I have always assumed the resistor things are to produce the variable speed for the ventilation fan (the one above the heater works) and the wipers (the one on the strut turret. I've never known them to get hot  and, assuming they are what I think they are, there shouldn't be any power to them unless the wipers or ventilation fan are operating.

The rear light without a reversing light is interesting too. Did it come from abroad? I can't think I've seen a UK car without reversing lights on both sides. Even the poverty spec one for sale on e-bay at the moment has two. My spares have a reversing light but I'm scraping the barrel for unbroken ones now.

Forgot about the wipers...will check to see where the switch is at. The fan works on speed 1 and speed 3 so that might get changed not sure about the wipers I seem to remember them working when the car first landed will get some new blades and get them checked out as well as the washers.The rear light I bought in the UK still in it's box (or a box) There is no bulbholder inside so only one reverse light strange...
Clarkey

I've done some checking too. The one on the heater motor is fan speed. You say yours works on 1 and 3. It's usually 1 and 2 with 3 being the one that always fails. I have an impression it is something inside the switch because I was told always to save a switch that worked on all three speeds.

The one on the strut top mount comes isn't the wipers. Mine came live on dipped headlights and having interrogated the wiring diagram it appears to be part of the headlight dim/dip circuitry.

That makes more sense as I was working on the drivers side headlamp...the fan might indeed be the switch not sure if losing the second speed is a major disaster but would be an easy fix now I know how to get the dash to bits!

The rear light without a reversing light is interesting too. Did it come from abroad? I can't think I've seen a UK car without reversing lights on both sides. Even the poverty spec one for sale on e-bay at the moment has two. My spares have a reversing light but I'm scraping the barrel for unbroken ones now.
[/quote]

Not certain but I think it might have been c 1986 that rear fog lights were introduced, Often installed at the loss of a reversing light.  An older or R/L H D taillight may account for lack of reverse/ fog light.
Others may have a better memory!

There is no fitting for a bulb where the reversing light should be so who knows what was going on. On another matter was about to order a cambelt, tensioner and waterpump kit but having been told the engine was from a Panda 4 x4 I compared the kits for the different engines and found that the 156 3a  (50bhp at 5,500 rpm) engine has a different kit from the 45bhp standard engine. Anyone know why? All I could think of was the 4 x4 version would be given a lot more stick 'off road' and the water pump was beefed up a bit. To satisfy my curiosity I checked the engine number and it is a 156 A3.
Clarkey

Ordered some parts from Germany including new wipers so once the unit was sorted I spent an hour or so getting the wipers and washers sorted. So we had good news followed by bad news followed by hope. Any way the German wipers went straight on with out so much as a broken fingernail strait out of the box. Washed the front and back screens...connected the battery and result both wipers working although should the back one self park? Onto the washers, I had to consult the manual to check I was doing it right and the outcome was no washers front or back...so under the bonnet I could see one of those earth trees looking very sorry for itself so I wire brushed the spade contacts and nipped up the push on connectors to no effect. So I took the washer bottle out after a struggle with disconnecting the wires as they were corroded on so badly they snapped off dagnabit. Out on the bench (more correctly in the sink) a quick swish out of the old washer fluid and a quick flash of 12 volts across the truncated connectors produced a ceiling high squirt of water on both pumps. So the question is can I solder a wire to what is left of the spade connector on each pump and rewire the push on connectors or will it be a new washer bottle?
Clarkey

You don't need a washer bottle if you can't attach a wire. The pumps just press in with a rubber grommet. New ones are cheap and readily available. I just did mine. Find them on e-bay under Fiat Seicento.

Thanks Frank will look asap
Clarkey

I managed to get a new washer pump as my local motor factors had one listed for a Ducato van and another one is on the way tomorrow...I previously purchased a new column switch gear set and had a go at fitting it yesterday but found that the original column stalks had 6 connectors and the new one only has 5! A quick skeg at the wiring diagrams did not show up the extra wires (red/black and red/green) however today I discovered at the back of the diagrams folded under was a supplementary RHD wiring diagram showing the peculiarities for the UK market. Anyone remember Dim Dip lights? according to the diagram an extra column stalk was provide to operate this feature and that was what the 2 extra wires were for so I think we can have another go at replacing the old one.
Clarkey

some piccies

Mine all have 5 wiring connectors. Dim / dip is on the light stalk which moves up and down once it has been rotated to put the headlights on. You should have wipers with washers on the right, indicators nearest the wheel on the left and the lighting stalk behind the indicators on the left. Here are some pictures of a spare set attached to the harness. I can do more digging if this doesn't help.

Hi all
After spending all day refitting the pumps and rewiring the connectors all the new pumps did was make a loud buzzing noise...so I checked they were pumping OK by fitting a length of pipe to each one and hey presto lovely jets of screenwash. So it was the pipework where I found lurking a non return valve that was a bunged up non working non return valve. A quick trip to the motor factors for a new valve and some pipe and we have a functioning windscreen washer. The back one can wait for now.
Clarkey

On the column stalks, having done more research, it isn't an additional stalk for dim / dip but an alternative stalk set with an extra contact in the lighting stalk. The ones I pictured were from a C reg car so predate the dim / dip set up. From studying the wiring diagrams all the regular lighting wiring is common to both setups so the dim / dip circuitry looks like it could be ignored. However, some of the wires in the regular lighting circuit pass through different positions on the connector blocks. (I had this with Dedra lighting stalks where I had three different stalks with the same connector block but different wiring. Annoyingly if you plugged in the wrong stalk it blew the internal lights which was what I was trying to fix.) 

Getting a UK, dim / dip stalk set may prove difficult. As an alternative I would suggest shifting the wiring pins on the new stalk set to correctly tie into the loom and ignoring the dim / dip set up. If the connector blocks are different, as the wiring diagram suggests they might be, you could move the wires to the block salvaged from the old stalk set so it plugs in to the loom.

All this also explains why early cars don't have the resistor mounted on the offside front suspension turret.

Thanks for the info Frank it looks to me as the dim dip malarkey is separate from the rest of the light stalks so when I get a minute I will swap it out strange my car has the wiring but no extra stalk???

As I say, there is no extra stalk. You are misinterpreting the information. It's an "alternative" stalk assembly, still with the same three stalks but with an extra contact in the base of the lighting stalk which emerges as your sixth connector block. I think the new assembly should do everything you need. You just need to be sure the right wires from the stalk assembly go to the right wires in the loom. you have highlighted for me that my spare NOS stalk assembly is a non dim/dip one so if I have to fit it I too will have to alter the wiring.

Thanks for the info Frank...decided to move the little beast so I can get at the CV joint...Phew it is heavy when you have to do it on your own plus it is tight through the doors as I had to take it out and turn it round. After that I tackled the rear wash wipe with limited success as our friend the non return valve was stuck again. Good new is after a bit of refilling of the washer reservoir :-[ we got water to the back window and just need to sort out the non return valve that was hiding in plain site the little scamp see pics.
Clarkey

Had a quick look at the DIM DIP malarkey and I can't detect any extra position for the dim dip on the lighting stalk so does it come on when the sidelights are switched on and on my car it is busted? I can feel the resistor on the wing getting warm but haven't checked out the rest of the circuitry yet.
Clarkey

No extra position to my knowledge. That suggests that whatever it does is automatic but powered from the normal main and dip beam positions. I confess the whole set up is rather mystifying to me. The wiring diagram shows the circuitry to involve the pulse generator for the speedometer. I'd unplug the 6th wiring connector in the existing set up and see if you still have main and dipped beam. If so I wonder if the MOT man would notice anything wrong?

Reading the blurb from back in the day it seems the dim dip would come on when the sidelights are switched on and the engine is running so you could leave the normal sidelights on if you were parked. This suggests my system is not working correctly  (might need to check with the engine running) I doubt the MOT man is going to notice as it behaves just like a non dim dip car at the moment.
Clarkey

An update on the dim dip/DRL is that daylight running lights are not part of the MOT and should not be tested
see  https://mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk/common-mistakes-made-by-mot-testers/
That is the good news so I think I will leave as is for now...not so good news the side indicators on the front wing are tested and one of mine is not working...will it be a 5 minute or 5 hour job? we will see
Clarkey

You may need to remove the arch liner to get the side repeater out. That should be two self tapping screws low down, one ahead of the strut and one to the rear, after which you can wrestle the arch liner out. If you are lucky though you may be able to prise the side repeater out from the exterior. From the back of the light the cables go up through the top rear of the inner wing into the space where you did the welding by the battery. There is a connector block in there on my car so potentially another thing to check.

As mine is in pieces at present I took some pictures so you can see what makes up the side repeater.

Thanks for the info Frank...Looks like a try from the outside first after checking there is 12v at the cable connectors near the inner wing.
Clarkey

Hi all
Fixed the rear washer by taking the tiny ball bearing out (it dropped on the floor and will never be seen again) of the non return valve as it all comes apart with careful manhandling the plastic is quite strong and flexible. Result!
Clarkey

I have some spares so I'll have to organise a red cross parcel for next time I'm coming up your way.

As the Appia block was now removed I set to work to get the Y10 repeat indicator light on the drivers front wing working. Amazingly the 2 self tappers in the wheel arch holding the liner in place unscrewed and we were able to get to the back of the bulb fitting. Behind the liner was in fairly good nick so that was a nice find. After a bit of faffing about it seems the bulb contacts were corroded so a good scrape and a similar treatment of the wire connection on the new bulb and we were in business. So next we had a go at the hub nut as the CV boot is shot...a suitable length of socketry (30mm) and the trolley jack handle had it loosened ready for the next phase. As I was under the car I had a quick scope of the other joints and bushes and they are all shot so a major overhaul is needed to pass the MOT.
Clarkey

just to prove it is working...the last picture is with everything back together...not a bad job but if those selftappers had not come out...

One other thing I had a look into over the weekend was refurbishing the set of alloy wheels Frank kindly sold me. It always worries me when the sons of toil start rubbing their chins and start making Hmm noises but even I was shocked when a local wheel company wanted £320 to do the wheels... I had to point out to him I only paid £250 for the car to hear him say 'Aye that can happen' he suggested I just get them powder coated in one colour but £190 for this was still a bit rich so we decided not to give them the work. There is an outfit on my estate that does this so I will see what they can come up with.

Finally bit the bullet and got the wheels tidied up and a set of tyres that are not cracked and dangerous...I think we got the colour wrong but for £220 with new tyres who cares!
Clarkey

Interestingly that's the colour of the standard wheels on my 1995 Dedra. Here are pictures of Y10 and Dedra wheels for comparison.

When I went to see Pete the Wheel we agreed to do the wheels in an anthracite colour but they have ended up grey...look a lot smarter though especially with the new wheel centres  ;D ;D ;D

While it is nice to see Y10, Dedra and Thema Wheels refurbished, and I appreciate the cost, but I feel its such a shame when the wheel are painted rather than diamond cut and lacquered.
Note the highlights of the Y10 diamond cut wheels and the anthracite paint in the recesses, as well as in the wheel bolt recesses, that in my opinion are what make these wheels so special, rather than being finished in one colour.
Frequently the recessed paintwork is in good condition and do not require repainting.
Brian
8227
 8)

Here is the Y10 sporting his new wheels must try and give it a run round the block a few times as it hasn't been ran for a few months.

Looking sharp, get out and bed those new wheels and tyres in!  ;D

Managed to start the Y10 but it won't run below 2000rpm and keeps stalling unless the choke is out, at least it has moved under it's own power again. Took a plug out and it was very sooty and the gap is too big. I will give it some TLC tomorrow after I have had a play with the Appia engine.

Check for air leaks between the carb and engine, if there's a split in the vac pipe or the carb base gasket it will cause the issues

I was thinking air leaks as well it feels like the servo isn't working so something is amiss

Hi all
I had a good rummage around the carb but can't find any split pipes etc...The base of the carb seems to be attached directly to the manifold??? will have another look tomorrow. I cleaned the plugs and reset the gap. Fired the beast up but it still would try to stall so I turned in the throttle stop screw and it behaved a bit but it is still very lumpy.
Clarkey

Could also be as simple as dirt in the idle jet within the carb. To check to see if there is an air leak post throttle butterfly get a can of carb cleaner, or brake cleaner will do if you've no carb cleaner and spray around the manifold and carb base with the engine running, if air is being drawn in somewhere it will draw the cleaner on and the revs will rise up. If nothing happens then you've no leaks.

I think there ought to be a black spacer between the carb and the manifold. Checking for leaks in the normal way still applies though.

Hi all
Thanks for the tips! I did a bit of research last night and realise the carb is bolted on from the top so if I get chance today Appia engines allowing I will do the air leak check and possibly get the carb off and onto the bench. When I bought the car the seller said he had changed the carb as the original was causing problems so it has been off relatively recently. Good news on the engine was all the plugs were nice and dry no oiling and all the threads were OK.
Clarkey

It's simple enough to whip the carb off and rebuild kits aren't expensive so a rebfurb might be worth doing.

The heat insulator block usually has a gasket top and bottom, so worth checking the condition of these.
Brian
8227  8)

Hi all
Had a play today and manged about 10 laps of the site so not too bad. Bad news is it still won't pull at low revs and is cutting out and stalling if you lift off the throttle on a 2nd gear corner. It will rev when stationary but struggles to keep going when driving. I was wondering about the fuel pump it reminds me of one of my Hillman Imps that split the fuel pump diaphragm on the way home from work and limped about 5 miles to get back.
On the question of air leaks I pulled off the vacuum pipe from the carb to the distributor and the engine died so it would seem it is not leaking in air. Perhaps a check of the fuel pump's pumping performance and failing that a strip down of the carb.
Clarkey

That has confirmed then that you probably don't have an air leak.
I'd look into the carb having a blocked idle jet as the next step. No need to worry about a rebuild kit at this stage, just take the carb off and take it apart on the bench and remove the jets to clean then. A can of carb cleaner is all you need.
You can do it on the car but a dropped screw down the venturi on the bench doesn't have the same issues as if still on the car..

Soaking the jets in paint solvent worked wonders for me.

Your symptoms are remarkably similar to those on my Appia after it had been laid up for eighteen months. The cause turned out to be stale petrol; the cure was new spark plugs! It would appear that using full choke had glazed the plugs with a varnish which is not easily removable. Tim Green at the Green Spark Plug co suggested that using over cleaner on the plugs might provide a temporary cure, but long term the best solution was new plugs.
Try starting the car on the old plugs, and once up to temperature so that choke is no longer needed, swap for new plugs and try your run round the units.

Hi all
Just a bit more on the rough/poor running. Changed the plugs and leads and the car revs better but won't tickover so this had my little brain cells tingling as many years ago I had a brand new Y10 Fila that had similar problems and a 1.6 Prisma that conked out on the way to UEA for an open university course restarted after a bit of poking around on the side of the road then refused to start for a week till I noticed the idle cut off solenoid was loose and was not earthing so would not operate. Hmmm...so out it came an sure enough it was an intermittent to none operating solenoid so a new one was ordered from Webcon and we will see what transpires with a new one fitted.
Clarkey

The new solenoid has arrived and I'm expecting great things for £56 pounds... On reflection the return spring seems a bit snappier so fingers crossed. 
Clarkey

Well...slight improvement as I could actually drive the poor thing out for a quick spin round the workshops (2 laps it was raining) and I managed to manoeuvre the car back through a very tight entrance so definitely better. However still has a huge flat spot when coming back onto the throttle so I have sent of for a gasket/overhaul kit and will have a butchers at the carb next.
Clarkey

After stripping the carb down the only problem I could find was a rather ucky emulsion tube...I can't recall seeing one like this with corrosion eating into the surface. Any way it has all been cleaned up new gaskets, diaphragms, needle valve etc etc. It is back on the car correctly torqued down and just needs connecting up tomorrow.
Clarkey

Well...one step forward two back. Started the car but it was running like the proverbial bag of chisels and a little nagging doubt sauntered in and starting whispering 'did you even bother to check that new solenoid???' so out it came put 12v across it from my battery charger and the damned thing never moved. So question is does the solenoid sit in the carb fully extended or does it rest up against the casting putting a bit of pressure on the spring and helping it to operate. The reason for this if you push the end of the plunger in a little bit the solenoid will work but when it was on the car I expected to hear it click as you turned the ignition on and off but silence reigned. So when testing back to back with the old one the old one could be made to operate a lot easier than the new one so back in it went. After about 5 minutes warming up by acting on the throttle stop and mixture screw I managed to get the little beast ticking over but as soon as you try to give it some more revs it stalls so a bit of progress. If it is dry tomorrow I will get the car outside as the fumes were a bit much inside.
Disappointed of Redcar

My first guess would be acceleration pump membrane.  after it has been running, and you operate the throttle, you should see petrol being squirted into the venturi (with air filter off)

My experience of the fuel cut off solenoid is that it makes the car either run or not run. It doesn't make it run rough.

Hi all
I changed the 2 diaphragms that came with the service kit so I will check the accelerator pump...the solenoid thing seems to be that with the throttle stop screwed right in the car will start but run rough. With the old solenoid back in a tap on the side of the carb with the ignition on and the car starts and as I said I could get it to tickover but I'm guessing with the 'new' one in it wont start at all.
Clarkey

I had so much trouble with these solenoids back in the day I sold the car.... Now I would fix it!

also check the accelerator pump jet, it's a thin piece of pipe that gets easily blocked.

Hi all
The 'old' solenoid seems to have fully recovered and works like a charm as you can here it clicking on and off with the ignition being switched on and off Hmmm. Good call on this as the accelerator pump is sucking and squeezing petrol but none is coming out of the jet in the venturi will have a play tomorrow.
Clarkey

Hi all
Using a single strand of copper wire in a cable I managed to clear the obstruction in the accelerator jet so the carb is back on and a quick test fire showed it was working...might get chance tomorrow to give the little darling a few laps of the workshop site and see if that dreadful flat spot has gone. There is a chap in the next unit who tunes cars I just wonder if he will be able to stick his exhaust analyser up the Y10's pipe and we could set the mixture properly.
Reasonably chuffed of Hartlepool

Just a thought but I am not convinced about the cut off solenoid so will put the new one in and check the lead as it is fed off the dim dip circuitry and as this is not working two birds with one stone...

Hmmm...must learn to read wiring diagrams properly the dim dip and cut off solenoid are not fed from the same 12v feed so I'll leave the dim dip for another day. Anyway got the carb all back together pulled the choke out and varoom 1st turn of the key. So we let it warm up and eventually it would tick over and the massive flat spot has gone (well done Dikappa) but it won't rev clean and is a bit hesitant. I can report it is nearly driveable and no longer stalls every time you let the clutch out so some progress. I managed to obtain an exploded diagram of the carb and it shows what looks like an emulsion tube for the idle jet? this did not come out when I was overhauling it so I will check a) it is still there and b) the state it is in
Clarkey

Hi all
Managed to source a spare emulsion tube  (thanks Frank) and with it fitted the car will rev cleaner higher up but still has a dreadful flat spot and started to stall again. I will check the float level tomorrow before I get the thrashing stick out.
Clarkey

Here comes Basil  ;D

Well float level was OK so all back together fired it up connected a tachometer and managed to get an idle of about 750-850 rpm but it was a bit uneven. So after a few laps we managed to get it into 3rd and even 4th a couple of times so it is running better and resisted the urge to stall but still lumpy low down. Thing is didn't really find anything... Old petrol?
Clarkey

Seems like you're getting there, some fine tuning and tinkering are the joys of carb cars, every box ticked gets you that bit closer,,

Have you re-checked the plugs after all this messing with the carb?  A new set is easily wasted and then replacing them can do wonders....Also if not running clean in hich rev ignition leads/cap/coils are suspect...
Has a compression test been done?

I have had running problems from the ignition module on the distributor. I never really established what was going on but running a wire from the mounting point to a good earth helped.

Hi all
Have spent a bit of time on the Y10 as I want to give it a run round the site to get a few miles on it to keep things working but it has been too wet. Did manage to fit a separate earth lead to the distributor and replace the exhaust rubber hangers as it was knocking on the rear suspension. Quick and easy job time will tell if has stopped the noise. The old ones were pretty tired
Clarkey

That's a teasing inclusion of a vintage camera in the exhaust rubber shot. The chamfered ends of the body hint at Zeiss Ikon but the lens isn't familiar. Do tell. What is it?

The camera is a Braun Colorette IIBL...it has lenses that fit with a bayonet mount very complicated.

Like this...Can't figure out if it is all working as it should as the only manual I can find is in German...I think the rangefinder is stuck so it will have to have the top cover taken off for a look see
Clarkey

Thanks, what a nice little thing. I resist the temptation to pull cameras apart as they are so complicated inside. Two of my more precious ones need work and they will be entrusted to a specialist. I did strip and rebuild a Thornton Pickard 60th anniversary model in my youth but things were rather more agricultural with 1914 large format cameras. My Zeiss Contaflex has a similar bayonet lens but only the front element is interchangeable on that.

How interesting as in the same joblot came a CONTAFLEX...however someone has been fiddling with the insides as the whole lens assembly just drops out so I think some parts are missing. The shutter still winds on and fires but the focusing is not working.
Clarkey

Meanwhile the Y10 managed a rather chilly 3.4 miles round the car park and is a bit smoother as the exhaust is not banging...it also kept running enough to manouvere into the unit. but look what was chilling out just round the corner after having a bit of welding done...
Clarkey

New toy the Y10 needs a new ball joint pressing out/in and the front wheel bearings would need pressing out if they are shot (after 98000miles?) and the Suzuki has a screaming rear wheel bearing so should pay for itself over time.
Clarkey

Nice press, handy too that it's bench sized so you can store it away when not in use  8)

The beast is bolted to the bench so it won't fall over...managed to do 2 rear and one front bearing on the Suzuki but really need a slide hammer to get the front hub off as the outer race stays onto the hub when you finally get it off. The race is now stuck on the hub and Suzuki list a special puller but Youtube came to the rescue. As the race is no longer needed because the new bearings come as a complete unit the race is no lnger needed so a kind man on Youtube showed a method of grinding an X into the race and bashing out a V shaped bit that releases the grip of the race on the hub and with a bit more bashing it was off with no damage to the hub. So we powered up the compressor and gave the 3.5" saw thing a try out and 10 minutes later it was off Amazing!
Thing is the gearchange on the Y10 is next to unuseable so I need to put some new bushes in (using the new toy) so do the Fiat Panda ones fit? vaguely remember Ed China changing some on a Panda...
Clarkey

I seem too recall there are nylon bushes in the gear change that wear and need replacing periodically.

While all the bushes will probably need replacing, the most wear is in a bracket/swivel tree bearings and shaft that bolts to the back of the gearbox, not sure if these still a available but I think I still have the exploded drawing and the part numbers of the bits involved,from when I did my Y10 Gtie about 15 years ago!
Brian
8227 8)

It might be worth checking on E-per to see if Cinquecento bits will do.

Found some of these for sale somewhere last year, I'll try and find where.
On my Y10 LX they were OK so I didn't bother buying, but it was the complete bracket with the new link installed.

This is the main piece that bolts to the back of the gearbox, if there's a lot of wear in the bushes it will ruin the accuracy of the change.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-Panda-One-Y10-Support-Drive-Gears-91385328-7691320-7652856-VEMA-13229/133708120948?hash=item1f21a00374:g:E~EAAOSwIFBfl70V

That's the one!
Brian
8227 8)

Overwhelmed by all the help and support thanks guys
Clarkey

Also I now recall there being two types, there was another one that looked nigh on identical but on inspection the bolt holes were in different places, both in-line from memory rather than offset as per this one, so worth checking..

Slightly similar.....

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/13220-Support-Drive-Complete-Box-Gears-Fiat-Panda-750-900-1000-1100-86-97/373100839257?epid=5025028886&hash=item56de8b0159:g:zNUAAOSwd4pe~JaF

Thanks again for all the help It seems I will have to check out what is fitted and take it from there.
Clarkey

Hi all
Had a quick scrummage under the car at the gearchange and low and behold the gizmo bolted to the gearbox was really loose...so out with a 13mm socket and all tightened up thing was the change still seemed remarkably vague as before ??? so will have to get the car up in the air a bit so I can get underneath properly and have a good rive about with the linkage. Another point is from my limited view of the bracket fixing holes they look to be in line and not diagonal as in the link Kevin put up...Was hoping to give the little beast a few laps of the carpark so will try and get the linkage sorted before that.
Clarkey

Whilst trawling ebay for linkage parts came across this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Set-Hebelwirkung-Austausch-Fiat-Panda-Lancia-Y10-Fur-7687667-4259848/183730938203
It seems to be a kit to replace the bushes in the gear linkage but what are the roller bearings for?
Puzzled of Redcar

From the exploded diagram in the listing I think they are for the front end of the rods from the gear lever to the bell cranks on the gear box. That diagram says 1988 to 1992 but the application check comes up positive for a 1985 Fire.

That looks useful.  Wonder if it would fit a 1993 (pre-facelift y10). Out of stock anyway. :(

I've been doing some digging in my spares, dismantling and cleaning up my spare gear shift mechanism. The set pictured has the three nylon cups that press into the ends of the fore and aft rods to push them on to the ball joints, plus the parts for the pivot sleeve on the gear lever. So it's all the bits before the bell crank that Kevin found and does not contain the bushes for the rods from the bell crank to the two levers coming out of the gearbox.

I checked my spare bell cranks. One is seized solid and the other has about 1mm of side play in it. The nut on the end is welded in place, hence the complete unit Kevin found, so it can't be dismantled and re-bushed.

Got the little beast jacked up enough to get under and dismantled the linkage a bit and removed the swivel bracket thing and it is well worn as are some of the bushes and securing pins. Quick blast round Ebay found a UK supplier for the bracket and bushes so will be here next week. I will probably take all the linkage off and clean it up and a lick of paint before it all goes back on. We can then have a few laps of the car park!!!
Clarkey

If I remember correctly  the bushes in the linkage under the Y10 were a real pain and very hard to push back into place.
And make sure the boots are in good condition or replaced.
Brian
8227 8)

I'll second that on the rod end bushes. I drifted one out from my spare linkage using a socket as a drift and it got thoroughly mashed. It struck me then that it would be a challenge to fit a new one. Presumably boiling water, lubricant and a good heavy vice are the way to go.

Can't remember how I did do it now, but I think a pair of large molegrips were involved!
Brian
8227 8)

Parcel came today with new lever thingy good service and the price was about the same as sourcing from Italy but arrived a lot quicker from Ricambo International Ltd. Just waiting for the bushes to arrive now.
Clarkey

Managed to source this servo for £17.50 from ebay...not convinced mine is working as the pedal is rock solid. interestingly the chap selling it was going to use it on a Y10 based kitcar an Onyx Firefly...looks like a two pairs of underpants ride to me  ;D ;D ;D The one in the pics is based on an Uno.
Clarkey

for more pics see here https://picclick.co.uk/Onyx-Firefly-kit-car-also-known-sold-as-Alphax-122481181146.html#&gid=1&pid=11

More work done on the linkage...gave the rods a quick clean up and paint then got the bushes out at the gearbox end as the kit of spares is the wrong one and only has 2 bushes in it. The one at the stick end seems OK and was clean and had plenty of grease on it. The boot is shot and I've ordered a new one. When pressing the new bushes in I felt the new ones were made of a much softer material than the ones that came out time will tell. All back on the car and an initial trial the change is a lot better so I'll try and get it tidied up in the cab and see how it feels.
Clarkey

The kit (for a 4x4 panda )supplied some plastic bushes for where the stick connects to the rod but on my car it had 2 roller bearings so I just cleaned them up and put some fresh grease in. Luckily in the kit were a set of the spring clip pins that hold the joints in tension as the ones on the car were showing signs of wear.

better pic of the bush coming out

I think the purchase of the press has been justified I think the old bushes would have succumbed to the usual jets of flame and hammers and hacksaws but putting the new ones back in would as people have commented been a pain. It has also been used to press out and in 4 wheel bearings and 2 front hubs on the Suzuki. Had a thought while I am waiting for the new gear change boot to arrive I might change the cam belt, water pump, tensioner and put the new cover I have on.
Clarkey

Made a start on changing the cam belt but surprise surprise it looks like the timing is out judging by the admittedly poor picture in the workshop manual I have that is a scan of a picture of a picture by the look of it. The cam sprocket when lined up with the mark on the head looks as if it puts the crank a way off the mark on the casting.

Still we carried on taking the belts off draining the water and removing the tensioner and waterpump. The water coming out is the colour of tomato soup...needs a flush out with the hosepipe methinks...more fun tomorrow.
Once the engine mount was out of the way it is not too bad for access.
Clarkey

Hmmmm Heinz tomato soup...

Update on the gear linkage boot is that the seller wanted another 10 euros for 'customs' before he would send it so 10 euros later it is in the post.
Clarkey

Thoughts on the gearchange after I had put the little console back in etc...bit underwhelmed the stick does centre itself a lot better but I was expecting more but on reflection the car has done 98k miles so there is wear in the rest of the linkages that are metal on metal. We will know better when we give it a few laps round the carpark. I might rearrange the motorbike licence chaps test circuit to give me a bit more of a run as well as a longer straight...might get into 4th gear...be interesting if the timing has been out can't wait  :) :) :)

Nearly there the new belt, tensioner and pump are on but the new cover defeated me as I couldn't get the middle bolt in and gave up will have to see if I can fix it as I snapped a lump off. Just need some water in and I can give it a try. Found a better way of setting TDC as there is a little hatch like the Appia in the bellhousing.
Clarkey

Had a test run about 0.1 of a mile! gearchange still ropey...engine still not revving cleanly but no nasty noises or water leaks from the pump etc so progress. I will have to get it fully warmed up then flush out the radiator and get the Paraflu in. I am getting an impacted wisdom tooth out tomorrow so will be a few days before I will be crawling under old Lancias.
Clarkey

Wisdom tooth 1 Clarkey 0. I now look like the Elephant Man and the medicos might need to go back in as there are bits of the root stuck in my jaw.... Nice. No crawling under old Lancias this week.
Clarkey

Ooh, I feel your pain there mate.
I had all 4 done in one sitting in the Hospital years back, one of them went horribly wrong, in agony for about 3 days as it wouldn't stop bleeding which caused nausea, which restarted the bleeding, which caused nausea...you get the picture. Doctor finally came up with the solution as I couldn't keep any pills down, never knew pills could work from that direction!  :o

Hope yours is better soon!! ;D

Too much info there Kevin 🤕🤕🤕 Hopefully it will settle down and the sadists at the hospital won't have to open the gum up again. Good news is the gear change boot has arrived..

new boot...I will give the car a bit more of a run out when the new boot is on so as not to get grit in the linkage.

New boot on!

Hi all
Managed a few laps of the workshops to get the water circulating before I drained it out and flushed the radiator...the gear change is on reflection better...the running of the engine is still lumpy to say the least even when the car was fully warmed up. The engine has been flushed and refilled with a 50:50 mixture of Paraflu and distilled water. However the central locking is playing up with the drivers side internal locking button refusing to go down and lock. There is a juddering noise coming from inside the door so might have to have a look in there...should the car lock both doors from the passenger side as well as the drivers side?
Clarkey

Yes the doors should all lock from either door. As far as I am aware the central locking unit is identical on both sides so they should both do the same thing. There's a micro switch and a solenoid. A good clean up of the electrical connections may restore proper functioning.

Hi Frank
I think the threat of me ripping open the door insides persuaded the locks to start working with the key or was it  that WD40 stuff I squirted in the door locks? Hmmm...I will connect the battery tomorrow and see if the electrical part of this system is functioning I seem to remember it was a while back.
Clarkey

Hi all
The door locks are still what can only be described as working when they want to but they are still working on the key when the battery is not connected so I can get in and out OK...I knew all that nice feisty anti freeze would make a break for it some time and sure enough a nice green puddle has appeared underneath the Y10 in line with the bottom hose where the heater pipe comes out. Question is are new hoses available?
Clarkey

They are available. They come up on e-bay from time to time but the only ones I can see listed at the moment are silly prices from Italy.

They do tend to give way where the heater pipe is jointed in. I'm sure I have some used ones and could bring one to the AGM. I'll try to look tomorrow and let you know.

Thanks Frank...if I pull at the heater hose a little weep of coolant drips out at the join to the main hose so it will have to be changed.
Clarkey

I have one old one left. Will you be at the AGM?

It might be worth checking eper to see if they are common to the Panda with a fire engine. I've looked at both on e-bay but couldn't swear they were a  match.

Found a NOS one for sale on Ebay so keep hold of the one you have for now Frank.

That's good. NOS is always the best way to go.

New hose arrived today and is now on the car not bad for £30 delivered to the door all the way from Cyprus!
Clarkey

Looks a bit more hefty than the last one...

That should last a bit longer.

Had a play with the distributor today as I had a spare one so that was cleaned up and the resistance of the sensor checked and found to be with in tolerance so we put it in. On taking the other one out found it was held in by just one nut so a bit of timely maintenance? Anyway the replacement one must be shot as the car would hardly run so the original went back in after a quick clean of the rotor arm and the contacts in the dizzy cap. Well you could have knocked me down with a feather the little scamp started without the choke and seemed to be revving for fun...so a new dizzy cap will have to be sourced and we shall attempt to fix the leaking exhaust and give it a thrash round the compound for a few laps.
Clarkey

Fingers crossed you've found the issue  8)

Out out of interest has anyone an idea what the static advance would be on a 4x4 engine as that is what is fitted in the car and at the moment it is set at 2 degrees.
Clarkey

As far as I am aware there was no special engine for the 4x4 so it's the same as an ordinary Y10.

It has 5bhp more and another 500 revs to play with!!!

That's interesting, checking Wikipedia I see that now. Rechecking all my manuals I see the 4x4 isn't acknowledged in any of them nor does the Panda 1981 to 1995 Haynes Manual. However the 2 deg. static seems to be common to all versions of the Fire engine up to and including the 1.1 injection. Perhaps a call to Trevor Nicosia would confirm the right figure.

Thanks Frank...I can't find any info apart from what is on the Y10 club it site http://www.y10club.it/Y10CLUB/1a/Modelli/4WD/Y10_1_4WD.htm
Clarkey

Damn you Mr Clarke. That's another web site that will distract me from spending my time being productive!

Found another one with a pukka 4x4 panda workshop manual plus lots more in Italian

It would be very interesting to know if the 4x4 manual shows how the extra 50 hp is created.

769cc      1000cc    1000cc
25kw         33kw       37 kW
34cv           45cv        50cv
Rpm
6250         5000       5500
Max torque eec
daNm
5.7            8.0            7.8
Kgm
5.8             8.2            8.0
Rpm
3000         2750         3500.
I have  The New Panda Fiat Manual.
Covers
Panda 750
Panda 1000
Panda 4x4     
For Sale £50 +p+p.
Brian
827 8)         

Fascinating that the 50 hp in the 4x4 has higher horsepower at higher revs with less torque than the standard car whereas I would have expected it to be the other way round. Does the manual show different compression ration, cam timing or anything to explain the extra power Brian?

Does the 4X4 have a Cat?

Not the early ones... It looks like a different camshaft and distributor account for the differences... I'll put the power and torque curves up tomorrow.
Clarkey

page from the manual

Interesting. Seems to be at slightly higher revs too, about 5k for the 45bhp engine at 5.3k for the 4X4 which would point to better breathing which could be the different inlet cam, coupled with a different ignition curve?
I mentioned a Cat because maybe the non 4X4 may have one, but then realsied the LX I just sold didn't have a Cat either and that was a 45bhp car so that's not the difference.
Are there differences in the carb? Does the 4X4 have a twin-choke carb? That would allow for more power higher up the rev range. 

Hi all
Thought I had scored a new dizzy cap on ebay for £1.49 but when I opened the box I was surprised to see there were 2 screws to hold it on...Hmmm.... did my car have screws or clips? Of course it has clips so I might have to dig a bit deeper and find a correct one.
Clarkey

Hi Clarkey

Is it one of these?

https://www.ricambio.co.uk/distributor-cap-fiat-131-132-ducato-lancia-beta

Peter

No it has the connectors in a horizontal plane...I will put a photo up later
Clarkey

I think this is what you need: Distributor Cap AUTOBIANCHI Fiat Y10 : PANDA : TIPO : UNO : InterMotor 46420

It shouldn't be hard to find because so many Fiat Fire engined cars used it.

One here for £9.00
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/223088561105?hash=item33f11d4bd1:g:oIkAAOSwfbRbZbL4

CLIP TYPE

here is a piccy

I foolishly took a job working in a school in September and as it is full time have been too kn******* to play with old cars...but 2 weeks over Christmas means I have been able to change the distributor cap for a new one from ebay and it is white like the old crusty one.
Clarkey

Had a try at starting the little beast up but the battery was flat so 20 minutes charge and it started but was a bit lumpy I was thinking it might be the petrol as it has been in there for months. The next dry day I will winkle it out and give a few laps.
Clarkey

Looking back the last time the car was ran was August so the petrol is at least 4 months older possibly older.

Managed about 15 laps of the workshops and I am pleased to report that the Y10 got better and better and I was able to adjust the tickover to a sensible speed. Moral must be don't leave your Y10 to sulk for 4 months.
Clarkey

And one year later!!! I had to buy a new battery charger as the last one was only knocking out 10.6 volts so bought one that would go into conditioning mode when the battery was fully charged. The Y10 was an obvious candidate as it had not been ran for a while so after a few hours charge we started the engine up and gave it a nice long 15 minute run up unfortunately inside as it is jammed in behind all those Appias! anyway managed to get it to run quite smoothly at tickover with the choke in and the temperature gauge in the centre by putting the heater to max (on even had the radio on) this meant the radiator fan never came on until the engine was switched off. Result! it even got to move under it's own power for about 6 inches real progress.
Clarkey

Update!
Managed to source a new windscreen and still looking for a new screen rubber. Hoping to get the sills and screen surround welded soon and then get the new screen in so the car can be used.
Clarkey

Now I am retired the excuses will be harder to come by, however moving house is always a good one but this time with a benefit of being 5 minutes walk from the unit, but not till November. Anyway I came into the possession of a variety of Y10 spares including a few TURBO ones, let me know what you need and it could appear at the AGM.
Clarkey

If you have a brake fluid reservoir cap with the low fluid warning system intact that would be welcome as mine is broken and being highlighted as an advisory on the MOT.

No spare cap Sorry.

No progress on the Y10 as work, moving house, fitting extra doors to the unit, etc etc have got in the way. Hopefully we will be moved by the end of October and I will endeavour to get some work done on the Y10.
Promise...Clarkey

And a year later...The Y10 got some attention today as I exhumed it from under the car cover, stuck some petrol in (only 6 months old) cleaned up all the mess some rodents had made, put a fully charged battery on and spun it over. After a few pops we got ignition on 2 or 3 cylinders and with a bit of revving and a big puff of blue smoke we got a lumpy 4. Seeing as it was a sunny day and not raining we gave the Y10 a quick 5 laps of the unit and popped it into the main corridor for an overnight stay. I will have a better play tomorrow with some new petrol.
Clarkey

some piccies

Anyone know if a Y10 Turbo gearbox will fit a FIRE engined car? The gear change is very poor even after I changed the bushes at the stick end and changed the relay at the box end for a new one. The Turbo gearbox looks like it might have done about 50,000 miles whereas the original box has done over 99,000 miles.
Clarkey

I'm pretty sure the Turbo uses the "Brazil" engine so its gear box won't fit a "Fire" engine. I may still have a spare box other than the one I need for my 1100 Fire but it's not the weather to go rooting about in the shed at present. I may have a firewall insulation panel too.

Hi Frank
You are a star...I think I might have a insulator pad or did I throw it out, I will check. I would be interested in the gearbox but I feel the change has got worse despite changing the obvious bits that wear, could it be the gearbox oil?
Clarkey

I've not had gearbox issues other than linkage bushes but otherwise my Fire is at 117,000 miles with the only problem being weak synchro on 2nd gear.

It feels as if there is no return spring to keep the lever in the central position. I have thrown out the heater insulation as it was in a worse condition than the one that is on...but not anymore! so if you come across one in good condition let me know. I will have another look at the linkage to see if it is sticking or needs a bit of lubrication.
Clarkey

I have two spare gearboxes but the insulation panel seems to be one of those things that took up too much space and was unlikely to be needed. The centring action on the gear lever seems to be inside the gearbox not on the shift levers but worn or breaking up bushes make the shift incredibly vague which would stop the centring action from being transmitted back to the gear lever. Cup bushes for the control rods and bushes for the pivot post on the bulkhead are standard Fiat items and should be freely available.

Hi all
Further investigation of the workshop manual reveals there are sets of springs that affect the gearchange so that will be a starting place . It seems the springs will be accessible from the top of the gear box so a win-win situation. The car has been outside under a tarp since last Easter so it may well be a gummy set of springs to sort out.
Clarkey

Have you checked if there is a swivel mechanism, the same as was on the back of the gearbox, of my Gtie? Perhaps  this is the same on  the turbo. there are lots of wear points on this, as well as all the bushes  in the system, when we bought our Gtie you could hardly tell what gear you were is as it was like stirring porridge.
The Gtie also had the Brazilian engine, so perhaps the Tuebo is the same.
The difference it made after the repairs was near unbelievable, it was so positive.
I used to have the exploded illustration taken from eper, but this was in the Y10 manual that I sold.
Brian
8227 8)

Hi fay66
I replaced the swivel on the back of the gearbox it made no difference so I will have a look at the springs in the gearbox.
Clarkey

Hi Ckarkey
Have you changed all the rest of the bushes in the linkage?
I'm trying to find a copy of eper on line that i can look at, I'll also have a look to see if I saved a copy of the relevant information.
Brian
8227 8)

Here's a set of pictures of the gear change and  all its bits. I think Clarkey is right to look to the springs in the gearbox as the source of loss of the self centring action unless the cup bushes in the fore and aft control rods have completely broken down, which would be pretty obvious on inspection.

Mine was so bad that it was pot luck what gear you engaged.
I never had to check the box itself  as by the time I'd replaced everything, and there was no need to, so perhaps it is as  you suggest Frank, but I'd change all the bushes and whatever else needs replacing, before thinking of having to check inside the box itself.
Brian
8227 8)

Hi Brian
All the bushes were changed and I was amazed at the lack of improvement, this was followed by changing the pivot that bolts onto the gearbox and again no real improvement so the gearbox bits are accessible once the spare wheel is removed so I will have a check of the state of the springs and if they need some lubrication.
Clarkey

Hi Clarkey,
Good luck 👍
Brian
8227 8)

Hi all
As the Y10 needed to be moved outside so it can be worked on I took the opportunity to have a look inside the cover over the first crank inside the gearbox. From the diagram  (see above) I expected the springs to be dry and possibly rusty as this is on the top of the gearbox and after 90K plus miles... Any way after removing the four bolts and popping the cover off I was surprised (again on this problem ) to see no dryness or rust but just greasy looking steel surfaces. I cleaned off the old oil and dirt dropped a dollop of gearbox oil into the chamber and fastened the lid back on. Weather permitting we might have a few laps of the unit tomorrow, I was going to fit some new plugs but the motor factor has sold me  the wrong type so I will see if I can get them to change them. On removing the sparewheel the plastic screw in retainer disintegrated so if anyone has a spare please get in touch. The boot on these tiny cars is so tiny the sparewheel will not fit in without dropping the seat back down.

Clarkey

You must have a rather different boot to me because mine not only takes the standard spare wheel with plenty of room to spare but also an alloy wheel which is too thick to fit under the bonnet. I've always countered claims that the Y10 boot is like a "letterbox" by saying it's bigger than you'd think. You should be able to carry four people and their bags for a long weekend (performance will be a bit dented though).

Hi Frank
It will go in but the parcel shelf won't lie flat.
Clarkey

I thought all the parcel shelves either detached, like mine, or folded down against the seat back. Perhaps there's another sort out there.

Hi all
Talking about spark plugs I was watching Wheeler Dealers or was it Car SOS or was it Bangers and Cash? Anyway the subject was of old spark plugs left in even older cars that were all sooty. The advice was that as (unbeknown to me) the spark plug manufacturers had stopped glazing the porcelain bit in the middle as with all the lean burn engines spark plugs never got sooty or wet anymore the commentator (Elvis? Ed? Fuzz? Ant? Derek?) pinioned that as a result of this the unglazed porcelain soaked up the excessively rich mixture and shaggadoobied the spark plug. I think there is something in the lean burn stuff as my car a 2021 1.2 Suzuki has already done 40K plus miles on a single set of plugs. This contrasts with all my restoration projects that just eat spark plugs for fun not lasting 10 miles never mind 10,000 miles. Also comments on the shelf life of modern petrol were made and I got the impression more than a month and you were asking for problems (I usually leave the petrol a minimum of a year between start ups and wonder why the poor things especially the Y10 backfires to an Olympic standard when I try to give it a few laps of the unit) as Ethanol is as well commented on elsewhere is unstable and E10 stuff is probably going off as you pull the trigger on the petrol pump nozzle! My thoughts on this are a) only put enough petrol in so you can give the car a proper run in miles not yards or b) use one of those little 2 litre emergency plastic tanks you can hook onto the bonnet and connect up from there.
Now where is that invoice for those wrong spark plugs.....
Clarkey
ps I think it was Wheeler Dealers and Elvis as he has F1 experience

on the subject of not keeping fuel in your classic this may be ok if it is sufficiently  modern to have a plastic tank, but it is asking for trouble if it is a steel  tank. Steel rusts (just peer into any steel tank) in contact with moisture laden air (typical conditions for storage from autumn to spring), this leading to rust  getting into the fuel system blocking jets etc and rotting out the top of fuel tanks. I have always put my cars away with a full tank (near as dammit) when I am not using it. Never had any running problems 6 months later.

My project Beta came with about 25 litres in the tank, how old it was I have no idea but the inside of the tank is surface rusty. The outside is a different story. The bottom of the tank was Dinotrolled and undersealed. I'm currently scraping it all off to reveal pristine steel underneath with only mild corrosion where the protection was scored. The top of the tank didn't get treated so it's got surface rust. However I think it's all eminently saveable with a POR15 treatment. If it needs welding it should only be to the (never to be seen again) top surface! And yes, it's been properly ventilated buy purging it with a 30 minute run of diesel fumes from the exhaust of the Alfa!

I'll be following Tim's advice and storing the car with a full tank over Winter. All fuel lines are going to be replaced so my only area of (slight) concern will be the corrosive effects of modern fuels on the Weber carburettor.. Time will tell.
Guy

The Y10 has a plastic tank holding a healthy 10 gallons.

Finally found that receipt and swapped the plugs for the correct ones put them in and the little monkey started with out even having to charge the battery...the petrol is months old so the theory about the plugs might be true.
As the Y10 has been neglected a bit lately I treated it to a set of chrome locking wheel bolts.
Clarkey

Tim,
I've always used E5 in 'Fay' without any additive since we were first forced to use it.
I now use the latest E5 98/99 octane and I'll never use E10.
The pre E10 E5 was never a problem , but we're now told petrol goes 'off"  and won't keep, but does this also apply to E5 now? as I usually keep the tank full over winter as well.
Brian
8227 8)

I must admit I was surprised how easily it started and even ran briefly with no choke despite not being fully warmed up. The weather has socked in again up here as I was going to treat it to some lead additive and a fresh gallon of petrol and give it a 10 lap blast round the units so it will have to wait. I will have to resist giving it too much choke next time out and keep those plugs happy. Not so sure about the shelf life of E5 petrol but it does seem to last a bit longer than has been known in the past.
Clarkey

I've never used lead additive in my Y10 in 16 years and 60k miles. I always use E5 which at the local Esso station is zero methanol.

I like your wheel nuts. Can you share the specification and where you got them as I could do with a set.

Hi Frank
I think I will try a 'branded' petrol and see if it is any better than the supermarket stuff.
The nuts came from here https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/155903460603
I emailed them first to check if they would be OK with the factory wheels and he assured me they would be.
Clarkey

Thanks for the wheel nut info.

There's all sorts of things on fuel. Tesco that I use are contracted to Esso so Tesco fuel seems to be "branded" fuel anyway. It is said that all fuel is the same ex refinery and the brands just put their own additives in before delivery to the petrol station. I'm presuming the ethanol for E5 and E10 petrol is one of those additives. E5 and E10 of course mean "no more than" 5% or 10% ethanol. I'm also told there is variation according to which refinery it comes from with my local Esso E5 being 0% ethanol. There must be lots of research one can do but people seem to speak well of Shell's premium offer and poorly of Morrisons super market fuel.

Last year Esso advised around August/September time their marked E5 had 0% ethanol would now contain some to a maximum of 5% added, the 0% ethanol era added has now ended. May be some areas can still get 0% added?   The different suppliers add their own brand of additives, the basic fuel from the refinery is the same across the UK, Esso, BP and Shell probably have better additives and detergents than the supermarkets is the commonly held view.

'We currently supply an ethanol-free Synergy Supreme+ 99 unleaded in some parts of the UK. From September 2023 our Synergy Supreme+ 99 will transition to contain up to a maximum of 5% ethanol at all Esso pumps irrespective of which part of the country they are located. The labelling at our pumps will remain as E5 for Synergy Supreme+ 99 unleaded'

Useful to know.

I ordered some wheel bolts from your supplier and they arrived in under 24 hours! The price was very acceptable too.

That's interesting to know that ESSO have done away with the ethanol free from their super unleaded as I purposely drove out of my way to go to the only ESSO station around, and that is 25+ miles away!
It will save me bothering now, there's a Shell more handy so their V power will be used from now on.

Hi all
With the marking finished and some dry warm weather I decided to wake the Y10 up from it's sleep under a tarpaulin for months not to mentions gallons of rain being dumped on the poor thing. I was pleased last time out it ran with hardly any choke with it's nice new plugs in. I had hardly any new petrol as it had all gone in the bone dry S2 Appia so I connected the battery and checked the gauge and the light wasn't on so I gave it a spin over and it started. I pushed the choke straight back in and revved it on the throttle till it steadied up and then we were off for a 8 lap sprint around the unit block. Suffice to say as the temperature gauge needle moved up the scale the car ran better and better till by the 6th lap I could get up into 3rd on the straights  before dropping down to 2nd for the 90 degree corners... the crowd were going wild! The bumping and banging off the front suspension and steering needs investigating, I know one cv boot is split and I think two new cv joints came with the car so I might have to do those before we have any more Grand Prix antics.

Checked the new wheel nuts all very loose so tightened them up.
Clarkey

Have spent a little time on the Y10 as I want it on the road before the end of the year so I went through MOT type stuff. I also wanted to fix the broken light switch on the column. Some of the major jobs such as the cv joint, brake cylinders etc will need a bit more time so just the low hanging fruit first. However the changing out of the column switches upon testing showed the horn wasn't working. Looking through the handbook told me a 20 amp fuse with the horn sign, the fuse was not blown so I pushed it in and out a few times to make a contact. Next we took the centre push off the wheel and checked that for a short circuit when pressed, this was OK. We then used the voltmeter to check for power from the fuse up to the horn push...nil volts. It turned out that when I had replaced the column switches I had pushed the assembly a bit too far down the column and the two prongs on the column were not making contact with the ring on the underneath of the steering wheel, a quick tweak up and volts were restored. Still no horn but we did have a nice healthy sounding click when the horn push was pressed. To the bit I was not keen on checking the wiring on the two filthy horns under the front of the car, the connections were both loose so I risked pushing them on and off a few times to make a better contact and success at least one of the horns is now working. When I strip the front suspension I will remove the horns, clean them and replace the connectors. When checking the column switches I noticed neither of the washers were working so under the bonnet we found a very loose connection from the last time I had looked at this and the most horrendous mixture of green slime and black gunk in the washer bottle.After the connection was recrimped (solder up at some point) and the washer bottle removed and cleaned out the washers were working again. All the lights apart from an intermittent indicator were fine so not too bad overall. The new column switches are black and my interior is brown but luckily the spare switches have the dim dip wiring so when I get time I can gave a go at sorting that. I can report that the car is starting a lot better even on the years old petrol and after I have done all the mechanical bits (noticed both steering rack rubbers have split) I can get the new sills welded up. I was looking in the manual and they take the front suspension off complete and I think that might be the way to go as I have new springs and struts to put on. The Sony minidisc player just started up as if it had just been fitted, Sony top quality...if only I could figure out how to get the flip down front off to put back in the case...
Clarkey

When dismantling the front suspension be sure to record accurately the washers on the reaction bars. They are effectively shims that set the castor angle so mixing them up can cause a world of trouble.

Hi Frank
I noticed the warning in the workshop manual duly noted. Amongst my spares cache were some disc backplates and as the ones on the car had rusted very badly I decided to give the ones I have a spruce up so a blast with the flap wheel and some primer has them ready for a coat of nice metallic black (it turned out cheaper than standard gloss black) however the old tin worm has given these a nibble but they will last another 30+ years.
Clarkey

it seems the underlying paint has reacted with the new coat but we still have two better looking disc covers...

Thwarted by the horrendous weather this week I will have to try again next week to fit the various brake and suspension parts that came with the car and I have added to. Had a delivery yesterday of some new discs, pads, drums, rear bearings and the steering rack boots. If we get a couple of decent days I will put the car up on some axle stands and get on with it. Yesterday's Typhoon saw the road to the unit flooded so no work done, however the wind got some work in as it ripped off my little top cover and shredded it and the elastic restraining straps.
Clarkey buffeted but not beaten!

I always run a couple of ratchet straps over my car cover to stop them being damaged or removed by excessive wind. I haven't found ratchet straps wide enough to prevent the cats shredding the covers though (perhaps I should put the straps round the cats rather than the car). As to painting things like the brake backing plates I'm addicted to smooth hammerite regardless of the cost. It seems to last very well.

I think the Hammerite might of been better as the spray paint reacted badly with what was already on.
Clarkey

Also a fan of Hammerite, but some primer and/or rust converter first seems to give a better result after wire wheeling.

Peter

Yes, always rust converter then rust inhibiting primer and smooth hammerite to top it off.

Can anyone recommend a rust inhibitor? I have used these many years ago but was never impressed by the results this was the type that converted the rust into some sort of primer.
Clarkey

Not an expert by any means Clarkey, my understanding was it merely "converted"  the ferrous oxide into a stable inert material, thereby preventing further rust forming and then enhance by initially priming, then painting said surface

I use "Krust" by Hammerite

P

I used to use Trustan23 but don't seem to be able to find it these days so use Kurust instead. I use the liquid rather than the gel which has to be rinsed off after it's done its job. It feels counterintuitive to protect something from rust then dunk it in water. I remove as much rust as possible by mechanical and abrasive means, degrease then coat with rust converter, sometimes twice. I think both Trustan23 and Kurust convert the ferrous oxide to ferrous phosphate which is inert. After that I typically prime with Isopon 182 Zinc primer then for suspension components and engine ancillaries I top coat with smooth Hammerite in gloss or satin as appropriate. The belt, braces and another belt approach seems to be very effective even on a car that lives outdoors all year round.

Hi all
Thanks for the advice on the rust inhibitor stuff will get some bought and get those flap wheels and wire brushes out. managed to get the Y10 a nice little drive round the units yesterday...I think 4th gear was even engaged a few times! Total was by the speedo 5 miles so a useful run out, had the radio on and the heater going. The brakes seemed better i.e. not locking on so with a couple of better days coming up I might get some work done on the little (more like tiny) beast.
Clarkey

The job list:
2 front struts
2 front springs
2 top strut bearings
antiroll bar rubbers
2 steering rack boots
all CV joint boots
1 CV joint
1 front hub with bearing
1 bottom ball joint
2 disc backing plates
2 front discs
set of front pads
2 rear hubs and bearings
2 rear drums
set of rear brake shoes
master cylinder
servo
change bonnet
change hatchback
replace sills
patch up floor, windscreen, arches and probably bumper mounts
sort a respray
It is OK Terry said he would come over to help
Clarkey
Should be starting Wednesday (budget day)

Also the rear flexi brake pipe but i understand this is a bit awkward to get at.

Quite a list there Jim!
I seem to recall the central rear brake flexi being awkward for some reason, when I did the resto on the blue one that was one of the items that was changed with the rear axle off.

Hopefully parts are cheap as chips. The rear brake flexi pipe is inside the centre mount of the omega beam hence the need to remove it. However it's probably only about three bolts and a chance to clean everything up.

I was wondering about taking the back axle off as there will no doubt be some welding to do in that area.

The Y10 is now inside for the winter and will get some attention when the Flaminia engine is back in the car.