Lancia Motor Club

As reported elsewhere, the Dilambda ran a big end on the way to Brooklands on Saturday.

Had it checked out today and its not looking good and decidedly touch and go for the Sliding Pillar rally. The crank pin is 3 thou oval and needs regrinding so the engine has to come out. Probably find that it will be prudent to do all eight.

My local friendly Veteran/Vintage workshop are prepared to do what they can to help meet the dead line so we'll just have to wait and see.

Robin.

Bad luck Robin :'(. I hope they can fix it in time.
Brian
8227 8)

Sorry to hear of your misfortune Robin. Are you going to remain with white metal bearings or change to shells? If the crankshaft has to be reground anyway, now might be a good time to change. I have just had new rods made for my Augusta, as I am going in for shell bearings. They were £180 each from Phoenix in Slough and look too good to hide inside an engine!
 I hope you can get the Dilambda repaired soon.
 Regards, John

Robin, There should be plenty of spare seats available if you have to come to the Sliding Pillar Rally in a modern, but would prefer to see the Dilambda!!! Good luck. Ade.

John,

My local to me veteran/vintage workshop have talked me through the various options and whilst new rods and converting to shells seems sensible I don't think I can justify the expense at the moment. They think that it makes sense to regrind and remetal where necessary which they can do in house.

I shall be in a better position to decide when I get the crank and rods to them in the next couple of days,

Ade,

Not giving up just yet but watch this space!

Robin.

Well, the engine is out (easier said than done!) and the crank and rods go to John Kirby in Croydon tomorrow for regrinding and remetalling. He hopes to have it done towards the end of next week.

Leaves me a week to reassemble and back in the car before a nice gentle runing in to the Sliding Pillar Rally in Suffolk.

Ever the optimist me!

Robin.

Piece of cake then with time for a glass of wine or two ;D ;D ;D

Brian
8227 8)

Reground crank and remetaled rods back yesterday.

Nine days and counting!

The picture says it all!

Robin.

Well, sad to say, the Dilambda won't be making it to the Sliding Pillar Rally.

The engine is in a far worse state than at first thought. Two pistons have shed gudgeon pin circlips which have migrated through the top of the pistons and the bores are badly scored. So, it looks like a complete rebuild which on an eight cylinder engine is a tad expensive! Don't tell Margaret. ;)

So, we have to choose btween the Fanalone, BMW 328i, Alfa 156, or Fiat Ducatto, unless anyone knows of a cheap SP car for sale!

Robin.

Sad news indeed; (and don't worry your secrets safe with us).

If it's any consolation I have "nearly" made it every year since 2001 and can easily miss several events in a row ...(and without such a good excuse as you have...)

any idea what really led to the failure? was the engine rebuilt in recent memory?

Thanks for the sympathy William.

My local to me engineering works have had a look and reckon that the circlips were probably not properly located in their grooves. They are also of the opinion that things are not as bad as I feared and that honing the bores, two new pistons, new rings all round and careful reassembly is all that is needed.

Robin.

Robin,
 see my reply under Sliding Pillar Rally.
    Regards, John

Better than completely bad news then Robin, but not much :'(
Hope she's soon better and not too much of a drain on the pocket, faint hope though that maybe ::) Did you have the engine stripped down to this level before she came back on the road? I seem to recollect not.
Just had new front wheelbearing fitted to "Fay" old one was getting like me, ancient and grumbling ;D
The cost put quite a dent in my pension.

Brian
8227 8)

Well, she didn't make the AGM but not for the want of trying!

She was back on the road on the Friday at 3pm but managed only 20 of the 166 miles to Swindon before the oil pressure disappeared again and there were ominous rumblings from the bottom end of the engine. Back home courtousey of the AA and to the AGM by a 'modern' on Saturday morning.

The engine came out this afternoon (will soon be able to do this in my sleep!) and I'll report the findings in due course.

Robin.

A month further on and the engine is at JEL Bearings in York.

Ian Burlingham is a very enthusiastic and helpful guy and rang today to say that having taken delivery of the engine on Wednesday the work is progressing. He hopes to return the rebuilt unit to me in a couple of weeks time.

He removed the oil way plugs from the crankshaft and found masses of sticky gunge which he is sure has been the most likely cause of the bigend problems. Pistons, bores and oil pump all look fine, so maybe it won't be as expensive as at first feared.

So, will she make Goodwood Revival and the French Rally? Shades of Turin 2006 all over again!

Robin.

Hi Robin,
Pleased things are looking up for you Margaret & "Modestine" and hopefully I will have the pleasure of seeing her again in fine fettle at the Revival Meeting.
Not wishing to rub salt in the wound, but how's the Fanalone?

Brian
8227 8)

Thanks Brian.

Not had time to get to the Fanalone yet but hope to do so soon.

Robin.

hows the engine coming along?

Thanks for your interest James.

JEL appear to have done a great job on the engine in a remarkably short time. It's now back in the car and I hope to be up and running by the weekend.

Robin.

well hope everything goes to plan for you keep us all posted on progress

Well, managed to get the engine running yesterday and it sounds fine but I have to confess to still feeling very apprehensive. Probably to do with not having followed the advice of some who believed that the only way forward was a £10,000 engine rebuild.

Hope to get her fully clothed and road tested today - MOT Friday!

Robin.

The best of luck Robin. You deserve a break(no pun intended), hope it goes ok. Regards Roger

yep good luck, i'm sure it will all be fine now, the firm you used seem very knowlagable and have a good reputation, at the end of it robin these engine's were designed to run on white metal bearings and modern oil is far better , as my dad will tell you his astura engine has covered 15>20k trouble free for the last 20yrs and thats all origional spec, hope all goes well for you :)

Frustrating last 24 hrs with the engine only firing up after a good dose of Easy Start on the air filter.

Morris Parry to the rescue again (that man should be knighted!) patiently taking me through checking of the valve timing which was well adrift. Reset that using a special tool which locks the camshaft in the correct position for the valves of number 1 cylinder when it is on TDC (or PMS in Italian!). This tool came with the car when I bought it and until now I had no idea what it was for.

So, maybe tomorrow for that road test eh?

Robin.

This is the ingenious tool used to lock the camshaft in the correct position for setting the valve timing on the Dilambda.

Robin.

Hi Robin,
does it just slide under the camshaft then you tighten the horizontal bolt to lock the camshaft with the moveable wedge?

Interesting shape at the top of the cylinder!

Brian
8227 8)

That's right Brian, you get the camshaft roughly in the right position, undo the two slotted screws and remove that side of the V and slide the block under the camshaft pushing the adjustable side of the V onto the cam lobe. Replace the bit you removed and by tightening the nut on the sliding part the cam is located in the correct position for TDC. With the flywheel at the TDC mark you can then fit the timing chain and set the vernier adjustment on the camshaft sprocket.

Robin.

Well, got to a test run yesterday and she's still suffering from very low oil pressure. Ominous noises from the bottom end so switched off and towed her home. Fortunately not far.

Dropped the sump but all seems to be OK. Will check the oil pressure relief valve tomorrow and may try to borrow an oil pump from a Dilambda under restoration.

Upshot is that the French rally is looking in doubt which is a shame as the Seilers are coming over from SA. Shades of Turin 2006 all over again!

So, anyone know of a cheap and cheerful Lancia for sale - Thema or similar?

Robin.

Hi Robin,
Not particularily cheap BUT ;D

http://www.bourgas.com/lancia/thema

Rare Series 3 Thema great looking reliable luxury car, last Turbo model
imported, probably best there is. 108k miles, great mechanical state, very
capable of slingshot acceleration as required. FSH by top Lancia specialists
, new brake disks/pads all round, tax, MOT. Clean and shiny inside and out
(garaged),  aircon, viscodrive, abs, self dip mirror, cream Alcantara, wood
trim etc, all elecs work. Driver's seat not torn, no white bubbles on the
wheels, minor discoloration on inside edge of rear arches. This has been my
car for the last 11 years, I have enjoyed it greatly, hope it will go to
another club member so I can still see it on Italian car days.

£1899 or less

tel 01223 515012
mob 07803 926414

Brian
8227 8)

Up and running again with great oil pressure! Seems it was the oil pressure relief valve which is a curious component seeming to defy all logic. Morris Parry to the rescue again taking me through it's idiosyncrasies.

So, one worry out of the way and another rears it's ugly head! The ominous noise on my previous test run which I assumed was bottom end appears to be camshaft orientated.

Robin.

You haven't forgotten to take that camshaft locking tool off have you??????

Problem appears to have been a blocked oil way feeding the timing chains, camshaft and rocker shafts. Should know for sure by tomorrow.

Robin.

Have purchased the Thema from Chavdar Popov refered to above by Brian.

Very nice car in excellent condition - everything works!

Robin.

Hi Robin,
What colour is the car and the trim, as the blue tinge to the photos make it hard to tell?
I think the interior Alcantara is probably "Ice", if so it's been confirmed that the UK Suppliers still have some of the seat material left.
I have to speak to them again tomorrow and find out the cost as I need some for Jack Joubert in South Africa.
If you're interested please let me know.
I shall also see if I can find out if they have any other Colours.

Brian
8227 8)

Brian.

Colour of the car is grey - Memphis Grey I think and the alcantara is very pale so probably Ice?

Incredibly the seats show very little signs of wear so I shan't be needing any cloth. Thanks for the offer.

Robin.

There are only 3 Colours in Alcantara in Thema series 3's, being "Ice", Beige, & Blue, & only came with 16v LE or Turbo LS.
In Fabric Blue & Sepia, that only came with the 16v according to my series 3 Brochure; the brochure doesn't show which interior colour went with which model or paint, but with a chassis number I can find it on eper.

Paint colours were.
Pastel

Sydney Blue,
Lancia Blue,
Black,
Grey,
Azure.

Metallescent.
Park Green,
Memphis Grey,
Coventry Red,
Derby Green,
Blue Madras,
Black.


Brian 8227 8)

Oil feed restored to the timing chains, camshaft and rocker shafts but noise still persists.

So, Thema to the French Rally it is.  :'(

Robin.

hi robin sorry to hear of your recent trials. seems as though things may slowly be on the up for you. hope things continue to improve. it does have a bit of a de ja vous of turin about it. but that ended on a high and im sure this will. take care. give my best to margaret.

Having spent a day at the NEC on Friday amongst fellow Lancisti (many of whom kindly enquired after Modestine's health ) the sabbatical is at an end!

The veteran/vintage workshop round the corner from me offered to spend some time on the engine provided I worked with them to save them time figuring out the idiosyncrasies of it. And what a great time I had! even managing to sort some of the problems.

Having ascertained that valve and ignition timing were OK and accurately setting the tappet clearances she fired up immediately and ticked over quietly. However, on blipping the throttle the elusive rattle reared its ugly head.

It was noticed that the valves were doing a sort of tap dance and on closer inspection that the outer springs were under no tension at all and therefore not helping close the valves. Large washers under the bottom spring cups seem to have done the trick and the valve gear looked and sounded much better.

However, There was still an ominous knock from somewhere high up in the engine under acceleration  and with the help of a very claver fibre optic camera it appears that one of the pistons may be touching the head. So, its back tomorrow and off with the head. I'll keep you posted.

Robin. 

What good news Robin!  I hope it all goes smoothly and you can start enjoying the car again.

Thanks Stuart.

Well, after a week of frustration diving up blind allies maybe, just maybe, we have found the culprit - piston slap. One piston (the one we have had problems with in the past) is much looser in its bore than the others.

So, on Monday the search begins to find a suitable replacement. Fingers crossed please!

Robin.

PS Couldn't resist the photos.

Fingers Toes & legs crossed ;D Pretty impessive looking engine!

Brian
8227 8)

Lovely pictures Robin.  If you need just one piston you might try Andy at Accralite (0121 525 6450).  He is a really helpful bloke and produced a set of pistons for my Weymann at precisely the dimensions and weight I specified.  If he has a blank forging of anything like the right dimensions he may be able to help.  Good luck.

John

Thanks John, I'll give him a try.

Robin.

So, two weeks on and so far no joy with finding a piston.

I'll list the relevant measurements just in case someone on here has any ideas.

Bore:    3.125" + 20
Height:  3.5"
Centre of pin to top:   1.73"
Pin:   0.875

Morris Parry reckons that the closest match he could come up with was from a Perkins 4.108 engine as fitted to the early 70's diesel Ford Transit. It would call for a fair amount of machining but should not prove impossible.

Robin. 

JP pistons in Australia make vintage pistons to measure. Given the enthusiastic lambda community down under they may have lancia experience.If you mail the dims they will advise if there is a suitable alternative or quote the new manufacture.I guess the postage is a minor concern compared with the cost of the solution.

Hi Robin,
Have you tried Jim Stokes Workshop near Portsmouth, who looks after many vintage cars including the D50 Replica, and manufactures Alfa 8c engine replicas so the owners who race don't blow up the original.

http://www.racecar.co.uk/jimstokesworkshops/

Brian
8227 8)

The decision has been taken! The local workshop are going to modify Ford Orion1.6 diesel pistons to replace the two or three we belive are the cause of the problem.

This entails machining 3mm off the top, bushing the gudgeon pin holes to suit the Dilambda pin, reducing the diameter by about 20 thou and removing sufficient metal from the inside to balance with the original. This is the most cost effective repair even taking into consideration the cost of the new piston. Hope it works!

Robin.   

Well, two months down the line and the pistons are almost ready! The workshop have been ultra busy and I've obviously not shouted loudest!

Aiming to have her up and running by the end of the month and then we shall see if the problem has been sorted.
   
Robin.

Another month slips by and still no pistons, the guy making them decided to take a holiday! He's back tomorrow and I'm straight round there to give him a very hard time. With me being away in France for most of May its going to be touch and go for the Sliding Pillar Rally as we don't even know if the new pistons are going to solve the problem.

On the plus side I have managed to get a number of minor jobs out of the way. Still need 5 new tyres, ouch! and will probably fit Blockley this time as the Michelin DR are now £229 each and I only managed about 10,000 miles on them. Anyone any experience of the Blockley?

Robin.

Well, I did put pressure on the guy making the new pistons and Hey Presto! I have them. So, maybe sometime next week she will be up and running again. Can't wait!

Robin.

Good luck, I hope it all goes well and Modestine is once again fit, healthy, and ready to resume her travels to near and far parts in her inimitiable style.

Brian
8227 8)

THE GOOD NEWS.  Modestine is running once again. Son Jonathan spent the day with me yesterday fitting the new pistons and getting everything back together.

THE BAD NEWS.  No improvement in the engine rattle whatsoever.

So, where to now - I honestly don't know! Maybe overhaul the timing chains and sprockets as they are quite badly worn.

Wish that I lived closer to Morris Pary so that he could listen to it. Anyone with engine experience local to me who wants to come and put in their two pennywoth would be most welcome. Local pub does a mean Roast Beef Yorkie and local Harveys ale!

Robin.

Hi Robin,
Pleased to hear the good news, but saddened by the bad.
How loud is the noise? does it sound like something nasty is going to occur at any minute?
I'm tempted to say leave it until something else develops as it may or may not do, "Fay" has always had a slight rattle/clack which an engine rebuild never solved, nor has it been picked up as a problem by Omicron or anyone else; I know it's there, but Diane as always says, I can hear every tiny noise from a car but can't hear her speaking to me from three feet away ::) ten years on I now ignore it, but if it got worse then I would have to do something about it.

Brian.

It's a very loud noise bit like running an iron bar along iron fence railings is the best description I can come up with. Advice of my local workshop is to run it around locally and see what if anything develops.

I did take the radiator out and the timing chest cover off this evening and was horrified by the state of the sprockets.See picture. They are very badly worn and have to be replaced which means having new ones made along with new inverted tooth chains. Could be 5 sprockets and two long chains. Ouch!

Also need to remove the sump and check that the con rods are not hitting the bottom of the liners.

Robin.

Hi Robin,

OUCH :o that looks exceedingly complicated and expensive :'(

I think your garage is right, but I'm amazed if it's making that volume of noise that it isn't readily apparent where it's coming from, and the ear and screwdriver method haven't pinpointed it, although it maybe that it's making too much noise to pinpoint. ::)

Brian
8227 8)

No progress yet with identifying the engine rattle but having once again recently cleaned out the oil cooling labyrinth on the base of the sump, was mightily impressed with the engineering on the Dilambda. The base plate is secured to the sump with 39 screws!

Robin.

Surprised you didn't find the Minatour in that labyrinth! What a piece of work ;D


Brian
8227 8)

Robin.  I'm sorry that I don't have any bright ideas about the source of the rattle but doubt that it is the chain. As inverted chains go it doesn't look all that bad to me.  Wear on the side of the sprockets is normal and unless the links or pins in the chain itself are seriously worn I would hesitate before replacing it, and if you do decide to replace it you might want to abandon inverted tooth chain and switch to Renolds which is readily available. As I understand it, Lancia at Alperton would as a matter of course fit Renolds chains and sprockets to Augustas and Aprilias that came in for repair and Alfa and Ferrari seem to have used Renolds from the start.  The Renolds head office is still in Wythenshawe, Manchester (O161 498 4500) and I understand that they are helpful. 

John

Thanks for that John, it confirms what everyone is saying. Namely, that the timing chains and sprockets won't be the cause of the rattle and if I do decided to repair the damage to them to think about changing over to Reynolds. R. M. Fowler recon around £1500 to replace the two chains and five sprockets with inverted tooth.

Hoping that Jonathan can make it down on Saturday to help check that the rods are not fouling the bottom of the liners. This will pretty well exhaust all the possibilities and the general consensus is that we should run the car locally and see what (if anything) develops. Seems a bit drastic but I can't see any alternative.

Robin.

I'm sitting here clenched thinking about you going for a drive with it making that sort of noise.  Times I've had engines making that sort of noise its been something pretty serious  and driving it could have resulted in a very big bang. 

Sometimes asking the question back the other way helps.   If you wanted to make an engine produce that noise, how could you do it?

Another thought is to post a clip on You-Tube for everyone to listen to.

Am sure you've been through all this but for the sake of it:-

= Is it possible to crank it over by hand with the plugs out and feel or hear anything?

= Does cranking it on the starter with the plugs out give a different noise?

= Put plugs back one at a time and crank and see if its compression force on a particular pot?

= Is there a way to test piston to valve clearances?   

= Any witness marks on the old piston tops or skirts?

= Were there any witness marks on the valves?

= One thought with that sort of noise is a valve stem "grabbing" and not wanting to come back up.  That could be either too tight in the guide or too loose.  That might show itself turning the engine over watching the valve gear.

= How is the petrol pump driven?  Might the drive cam be knocking on something every 7th turn or something odd.

= could the oil pump drive be skipping a tooth?  is the oil pump substantial enough to be a cause of the noise?

David

Does the old head gasget give any clues?

Could a liner have moved?

Anything at the flywheel/clutch end that would act like cardboard against bike spokes?

Could a big end have come loose?

Are there any oil screens inside the crank case?

Could you put a paint mark on a pully and work out excatly at what point or the pattern of the noise?   If it was TDC on pot 3 or every 5th turn or something that would narrow it down.

David

If I was wanting to install and annoying noise - lets pretend this is a 1970s BL plant with the red perils sabotaging the cars of the running dogs - I'd cut one of the billion bolts in half, say one of the ones holding the cam shaft down, so it would jump up and down hitting the cam cover.

Anyone else got some evil thoughts on how to make an engine rattle?  In general people are much more creative being evil.  There's got to be 101 ways at least - we just need to think like Gremlins.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087363/

Been a while since I've seen those films, but I remember them fondly.

David

Thanks very much David for spending the time thinking and writing about my problem, much appreciated.

We don't get the rattle at tick over only when the revs are increased so the cranking tests don't help.

We've had a fibre optic camera through each plug hole and turned the engine over and all seems well.

My engineering friends dismantled the engine last time and checked everything thoroughly but found no unusual signs of wear or damage.

Petrol pump is electric.

Oil pump is driven with via a fork on the bottom of the distributor drive.

The head gasket gave no clues and the liners were all Ok.

I removed the clutch and gear box drive but still had he rattle.

The valves and guides have been checked but I will turn the engine over and have a close look at them operating. Will also see if its possible to put a mark on a pulley to see if there is a patern.

You-Tube I'm not used to date - I'll give it a go.

Thanks again David - Lewisham is not that far from me, come and have a listen!

Robin.

Quote:"It's a very loud noise bit like running an iron bar along iron fence railings is the best description I can come up with. "

Question, is it synchronous with engine revs? Does it happen when in gear, or also out of gear? As David said, something between flywheel and a fixed casting, or near the clutch? starter pinion rubbing against flywheel?  In an Aurelia, things can fall between flywheel and cover, and make horrible noises.

If no damage internal to the engine is seen, it should be an external problem!

Sébastien

Hi Robin. Just a long shot, difficult when not actually there to listen to, but here goes . Years ago i had an early mgb which had a dynamo, i had a horrible noise which increased with revs, how i found the culprit was, i took the fan belt off, and the noise was not there anymore, it turned out 1 of the 2 long screws that go right through the dynamo, had snapped half way inside, what was happening was, when on idle, i.e. slower rotation, the end of the screw nearsest the head of the screw would drop down and rub against the rotating part inside, but when the revs were increased the screw inside then got thrown about more and was bouncing off the rotating part and against the outer casing making a noise like you describe. As i say only a long shot, but sometimes its easy to overlook the simple things. Good luck. Roger.

Robin

I had a noise like a machine gun in my Lambda engine which only came in as revs built up it was a valve guide loose in the head, the inner spring on later Lambda engines does not sit on the step of the guide.  I had to put a mole wrench on each guide as only the loose one turned slightly with some hand force when cold but became easier to turn as the engine got hotter.

Don

Sebastion.

Yes, it is synchronous with engine revs and not there on tick over. The engine has been apart 3 times recently and closely inspected for signs of wear/damage but nothing shows up. The engine has been run without clutch and gear box but still has the rattle.

Roger,

I will run it without the dynamo which is direct drive but I can't start it without the starter motor as the radiator was rebuilt at sometime and the hole for the starting handle doesn't line up with the dog on the crankshaft! Maybe able to tow start.

Don.

Interesting one that and not something we have checked so will have a look tomorrow.

Thanks all and please keep the suggestions coming, the withdrawal symptoms from not driving her are becoming unbearable!

Robin.

Well, another day of inconclusive tests and inspections. It really is looking as though the engine is going to have to come out and be stripped down again. Most frustrating, not least as we are off to France on Thursday for a month.

Robin.

I guess you've done the "pulling a plug lead off in turn" thing...

That valve guide and the dynamo problem must have taken some finding. 

All this is reminding me of a previous life chasing software faults.   The kitchen radio amuses me at the moment by sometimes changing the volume up when I hit the down button.   The new digital garage radio infuriates me by taking three seconds to come on with no audiable "click" to give me faith that it will.  I can understand it needs to buffer and error check and so on but at least acknowlede the on button with some noise like a digital camera "shutter" noise.   

David

Having returned from a blissful month in France away from things Dilambda and with the AGM looming it was back to Modestine today.

Coxing her into life revealed that the rattle has not miraculously disappeared and if anything, seems worse! However, Tony from my local V&V workshop agreed to come and have another listen and pronounced the engine to be in rude health and the problem not to be too alarming. Having said that, he couldn't be more specific - maybe a con rod touching the liner, loose fly wheel bolt, starter pinion etc. He reckons that its better to leave the engine in situ and try and pin point the offending part by trial and error.

So, tomorrow I will see what I can find.

 Oh, and the clutch has decided to malfunction. Most probably I've assembled something wrongly, although you'd think by now I could get that right in my sleep. It doesn't bite until at the very end of the peddle travel and even then is slipping.  Fortunately it is possible to get at the clutch easily and indeed change it without disturbing the engine or gearbox.

Watch this space.

Robin.

Trial and error sounds a bit harsh - lets call it "a process of elimination".   

You WILL get there in the end...

David

Not a lot to report from Saturday's investigations. Having eliminated external possibilities, off came the sump again to reveal - not a lot.

There were some witness marks on the six bolts that secure the flywheel to the crankshaft but they are more likely to be from being driven home during the rebuild, their being a very tight fit. Need to try and make absolutely sure that the con rods are not fouling the bottom of the liners, although this is difficult lying on ones back and given that on a V8 there 'aint much room and the angle makes it almost impossible to get an un-interrupted view.

Looking more and more likely that the engine will have to come out again.

Robin.

Hi Robin
   Just been re-reading your tale of woe-Not sure how you havnt set fire to her by now!!!
   It isnt clear if you have had the main bearings attended to.Presumably they were not done when the first crank regrind etc was done byJohn Kirby as he did not have the whole engine.So were they remetalled and line bored by JEL? It strikes me that if some ot the mains had "run" you could be getting crankshaft whip or flexing as you increase the revs allowing some pistons to hit the head (or the valves).At one point you said the camera test showed a piston might be touching so they must certainly get very close.If the noise isnt there at idle it must come from something that flexes or distorts as the speed is increased.
   On the other hand if the noise is present at idle (but less severe) and builds in volume as the revs are raised I would suspect the valve gear.The business with having to add packing washers to get the outer springs to work properly sounds very odd.Are you sure the springs do not now get coil-bound? Or perhaps they are still so slack you are getting valve bounce.
   The other thought that occurs to me concerns the modified Ford pistons. Presumably the two pistons with the gudgeon-pin damage were replaced with "proper"ones as you did not mention a sourcing problem at the first rebuild. Also the top end noise was presumably not there when you did  the 20miles en-route to Swindon last year before you lost your oil pressure.So I wondered if the distance of the top ring below the top of the piston was less on the modified Ford ones. This could lead to the top ring hitting the wear step that is normally present at the top of the bores on an engine that has done a few miles.

Hi Ben, thanks for your input.

JEL re- metaled and line bored big end and main bearings and they all appear to be in fine shape.

It definitely seems to be something that is stretching or moving under acceleration

Tony from my local V&V workshop had a close inspection of the valve gear last week and reckons its fine. It was he who experimented with the washers and found that the valve gear became noticeably quieter.

At the first rebuild the two damaged pistons were repaired and re-fitted. The noise appeared following that rebuild, persisted after the JEL work and after fitting the modified Ford pistons. The cylinders had been bored when I bought the car and the engine has covered about 10,000 since. I've had the bores honed and there is no noticeable wear or step in them.

Another session with her tomorrow!

Robin.

Well, another 8 hours, this time with son Jonathan and still no nearer solving the problem. Investigated inside of the bell housing with Jonathan's Fire Brigade Search and Rescue fibre optic camera, amazing what you can see! Sump off, faced off the heads of the flywheel bolts as they seemed to be running very close to the rear of the block and checked conrod to cylinder liner clearance. Ran the engine having removed push rods on each cylinder to see if valves were the problem. Head off, camshaft out but all looked fine.

Re-assemble now and run again. Think that I'll trailer her to the AGM so that you can all have a listen! Bring your overalls!

Robin. 

I'll bring my stethoscope - but I expect you have tried one already! Regards, John

The other thing to bring is the ever longer list of what you have tried.  I can imagine you standing there all day saying "we checked that and..."

David

Robin,

Just to encourage you. It looked like this (see below) two and a half years ago, and I didn’t hear any clonks then!

Colin

Thanks John, David and Colin for the encouragement.

David Mead (Augusta) came over for much of the day but sadly went away as baffled as I am.

On the bright side, excellent oil pressure following attention to the relief valve. :)

Robin.

Was the relief valve spring too weak? Or was the valve not seating properly? Did you check the pressure with hot oil? I ask because I'm a bit baffled about the pressure on my Augusta. When cold, it's a bit too high. This is not such a bad thing as it encourages me to warm the motor up slowly. But I tried a weaker spring in the top relief valve, only to find that it effected the pressure when the oil was hot as well, resulting in about 10 psi less pressure at cruising speeds. I have reverted to the old spring and remain confused!Regards, John 

John,

I'm not sure if the relief valve is the same on the Augusta as on the Dilambda which is a piston in a sleeve with a conical seat held in place by a spring. There appears to be no adjustment other than the strength of spring used.

Morris Parry told me that he has had problems with the similar set up on his Augusta and that I should lap the seat in using valve grinding paste. I fitted a long bolt through the piston which allowed me to use an electric drill to do the lapping.

The piston also has a small hole across it which can get blocked or indeed some people deliberately block it off in the mistaken belief that it will increase oil pressure. The presence of the hole defies logic but is necessary.

I'm now getting 3 on the gauge when cold and between 1 & 2 when hot.

Robin.

 

Addendum  to my last post re the oil pressure relief valve.

In case anyone thinks that Morris was encouraging me to introduce grinding paste into the engine block let me explain.

In many vehicles the piston of the pressure relief valve seats directly into the block - not so the Dilambda. The piston runs in a cylinder both of which come out of the block. So, I was able to grind the piston seat into the cylinder whilst holding it in my hand well away from the engine. Careful and thorough washing away of the paste is easy before re-assembly.

Robin.

Progress at last - but don't get too excited!

Managed to get the Dilambda to the MOT garage and was rewarded with a shiny new certificate.

That's the good news, the bad is that the engine malady still persists, if anything, worse than ever. Driving the car has revealed that one can to some extent control the frequency and intensity of the noise and that it does seem more random than at first thought. It almost seems that there is something loose inside.

So, trailer is hired and hope to see you all at the AGM when a substantial reward is on offer for the correct diagnosis!

Today's very short drive served to remind me of how very much I'm missing using her.

Robin.

look forward to your visit robin,

Will I need my ear trumpet ;D

Brian
8227 8)

Bakelite cover for the dip switch.

Picture shows the broken cover that I have. The missing part has a knurled knob on the opposite side to the one shown.

Long shot I know! Or perhaps someone knows how I can fabricate the missing part.

Robin.

Ear plugs more like!

Robin.

This will be a good test as to who is reading the Forum then ... check out the size of the crowd round the car :)

That car with the bonnet open would pull a crowd ANYWHERE.

David

Robin,
Sorry I didn't make it yesterday but how did you get on with Modestine? did the collective knowledge of the gathered Lancisti throw any light or suggestions regarding you elderly lady's noisy inner workings ???

Brian
8227 8)

Robin and Morris. Any diagnosis yet? Is no news good news?
   Regards, John

Ok, here's the update you've all (?) been waiting for.

Thursday before the AGM arrive at the home of Morris and Carole Parry in North Wales.

Friday am went something like this:  fire Modestine up, Morris says, 'If that were my car I'd take the engine out, dismantle it, carefully examining everything'. I reply, ' What are you doing on Monday!'

Off to the LMC Annual Rally and AGM for a super weekend made all the more special by James Parry generously lending me his beautiful S3 Appia Berlina for the Giro. (I so want one!) Started the Dilambda up late Saturday pm which instantly drew a large crowd and lots of useful comment and advice. John Millham had even brought along his stethoscope!

Back to the Parry home on Sunday evening and on Monday morning start extracting Modestine's heart. By Tuesday lunchtime the engine is upside down on the garage floor and Morris is looking for evidence of the rattle. There's nothing obvious until he gets to big end #8 which has far more play in it than is good for it - in fact it has run and on inspection #5 main bearing is not looking good either.

So, it looks as though at some point there has been a serious lack of oil pressure, and  Morris is unhappy with the shallowness of the oil groove in the main bearing white metal.

Pack it all in the van, car on the trailer and back home Wednesday.

Today, consult with my local V&V workshop who don't believe for a moment that JEL (they who re-conditioned the bottom end) are to blame as they use them for all their white metalling and have never had a problem. I speak with Ian Burlingham at JEL and he arranges for the engine to be collected tomorrow, Friday and promises to give it priority when it arrives with him on Monday.

The plan is that on its return the V&V workshop guys will rebuild the engine in the hope that they will spot anything else that is amiss. They are determined that this time it will be right - I suspect that they are fed up with the sight of me!

So, there you have it, lets hope that between us we are successful.

Grateful thanks to all on the forum who have taken an interest in the problem and to those of you who took the time to offer suggestions and commiserations during the weekend. Extra special big, big thanks to Morris, Carole and James for their hospitality. To my mind Morris is the modern day Harry Manning, his workshops, stores and being on hand to offer advice took me back to those halcyon (I think?) days when one could arrive in Farnham and spend as long as you needed under the watchful eye of Harry until the problem was solved. Big difference being that the Parry accommodation is far and away more salubrious! and Morris doesn't rely on a piece of string to hold his overalls together.

Big disappointment  is that the VSCC 75th at Malvern is looking distinctly sans Modestine.

I'll keep you posted on developments.

Robin.    

Hi Robin,
Pleased you're getting somewhere at last, with many thanks to wonderful Lancisti who are prepared to help others with problems with their cars.

Brian
8227 8)

Something else to look into is what might have starved the oil FLOW.

- no undue constriction on the route to the bearing
- sufficient clearance for oil to leave the bearing
- no "leaks" upstream
- no "paths of too little resistance" elsewhere in the system

You have a rare and complex bird, so quite how you know what is "due" and "sufficient" I know not...  Fingers crossed oil groove width is the key.

In terms of "pressure" and "flow" I read recently how modern superbikes run spooky low oil pressures and know that some of the hot Austin 7s end up with a high pressure pump to the bottom end and a low pressure pump for the various "drip feeds" as an alternative to adjusting fits and constrictor plates and so on to "balance" the needs of the various bits and bobs round the engine.  Even then they need a lot of side clearance on No4 or the high pressure oil gets trapped and overheats.

Sorry to be a damp squib - from long (thankfully now prior!!) experiance with computer systems finding A fault doesn't mean you've found THE fault, aside from the doctor-patient muddle of symptoms and causes and complications.  What ELSE might be wrong with it?   I know you've got quicker getting the engine in and out but each time out is an opportunity for faults to jump out at you.

You seemed to be bearing up well at the AGM - is the trick is to keep reminding yourself what a privilage it is to be working on such fine machinery?   Its human nature to never expect quite as much trouble as we find ourselves in, but I'm trying to imagine the vendor telling you "never any bother these guv".

Happy hunting!!

David

I'm glad you have found the cause of the noise, if not the cause of the problem. It's surprising that there wasn't more evidence when you looked before. Let's hope that V and V can put it all together in time for Malvern, but if they can't, I could do with a navigator on the Tuesday "Homes and gardens" run in the Augusta.
I'm sure they will know, but they will need to check the alignment of the ofending rod after the pounding it's had. And cleaning out the oilways won't be a five minute job. Good luck with the rebuild.
Regards, John

Brief update.

Ian Burlingham from JEL rang to say that the engine arrived this morning, that he has made a preliminary examination and is horrified!

He's pretty sure that its poor oil flow. What we thought was an oil groove in the main bearing has been caused by a piece of metal, there is no oil groove in that half of the bearing!

So first, another thorough clean out of the oil ways and then more white metaling - listen carefully and you should hear the groans from my wallet!

Ian reckons it could be back with me middle of next week so it looks as though the very best I can hope for is to arrive at the VSCC 75th celebrations 2 or 3 days late.

Robin.

Well at least they may have found WHY, but, is there no warranty on the engine rebuild?Best of luck though.

...and to remember the oilways might be too wide someplace so letting it escape before the bearings...

...perhaps a cam bearing too wide letting it all escape...

...too much side clearance on an "upstream" big end or main...

...a problem with the casting to make a crack or hole the oil can escape through...

Easy to say if you're not doing it - but would it be possible to pressure test individual oilways?
   
Am trying to think how to "divide and rule" and at least be able to eliminate some stuff.   Perhaps test the assembled camfeed side to be sure you haven't got a fountain someplace?   Am thinking any old oil pump driven by an electric drill in a biscuit tin sump, a flexi pipe to a tapping "somewhere" in the oil system, a couple of bolts as "bungs" to the crank feed, pump some oil and see that it builds pressure rather than spurts out somewhere you'd never thought to look.

Another thought is if there's an "obvious" place to put an extra oil pressure tapping (or two) to be sure you've got high pressure oil in the crank when its running.   People will look at the dash and ask "what's that dial?" and you'll say "oil pressure", and then they ask "so what's that one then?" and you say "that's also oil pressure, and so's that one, and that one, and that one."  They'd work out the rest of the story themselves.

David

A bit of good news at last.  :)

Ian Burlingham of JEL rang today to say that he had dismantled the engine and reckons that he only needs to clean up #5 main bearing and re-metal 2 big ends. He'll also have a good clean out of the oilways again.

It should be back with me next Monday latest and the v&v guys are going to rebuild it and check everything thoroughly.

So not as disastrously expensive as we at first thought.

Robin.

That is good news Robin.  I hope this is the light at the end of the tunnel for you and Modestine and that you can finally start to enjoy her again  :)

I've got everything crossed!

Brian
8227 8)

I had everything crossed and fell off me chair ;D

That says it all ;D

Engine arrived back safely today from JEL, hate letting it out of my sight! Fortune smiled on me this time with only one main bearing needing cleaning up and two big ends re-metalled.

Start putting it back together tomorrow (Tuesday) although it is down to me as the guys round the corner are not going to be able to take it on for weeks. Morris Parry has promised to stay close to his telephone! and David Mead (August) is on standby if needed.

Robin.

I imagine the crank is some lump to heave about.  Is there a knack?

Be thinking of you tomorrow...

David

Thanks David.

The problem is that the flywheel has to be fitted to the crank before putting it in the engine. The cross member which also has to be fitted won't allow it to be fitted later.

A five main bearing eight cylinder crank and flywheel takes some lifting. I can just about manage it but prefer to use a hoist in the interest of personal safety and reducing the chance of damaging anything.

Robin.

Personal as well as mechanical ;D

Good luck with the rebuild Robin.

Brian
8227 8)

Everything crossed and strapped to me chair ::) hope all goes well

EUREKA!!  - well, I hope so!

Just may have found the elusive engine rattle.

Referring to the picture attached: Distance piece 1024 is attached to splined shaft 1018 with 8 bolts 7602.
The heads of these bolts run in close proximity to the thrust race bearing housing 1021 and are impossible to see with the engine in the car.
They are very difficult to fit with the engine in the car and to make it easier we reversed them placing the spring washer and nut on the side nearest the housing.
There was insufficient clearance and the 8 nuts have been in contact with the housing which I believe (hope!) resulted in the machine gun like noise.
This was not of course the noise those of you heard at the AGM. That was a big end which masked the rattle and which has been re-metaled.
It could also be the reason for the slight clutch slip I've been experiencing.

The engine is going back in the car today so sometime soon we should know one way or the other. 

Robin.

Sounding promising - we may have to get that "loudest collective cheer on the forum" medal pressed yet  ;D

Robin,

Really hope you've found it at last, sounds very promising, waiting to let rip my bit of the collective cheer ;D

Brian
8227 8)

Robin, it sounds very promising that you have finally cracked that difficult 'nut'!  I am sure I heard a cheer as I opened the recent replies...  btw I have a Dilambda plaque for you via my parents who found it a junk shop, I will post a picture of it later.

Plaque as promised, which is not mounted on the base squarely by its previous owner, a web award for all your hard work and perseverance in determining the problem and keeping us all informed!

And i've tightened the straps on me chair ready for lift off  :o

You shall go to the ball Modestine!

An 18 hour day yesterday has her up and running again and so far we have excellent oil pressure and no engine rattle! It was a huge task as I was very largely on my own - picture attached gives you some idea. Check out the size of the engine hoist a friend kindly gave me some time ago.

So, we're off to Malvern for the week long VSCC 75th anniversary celebration. A weeks gentle motoring will see if the problems are finally behind us, although she will be going over on a trailer just in case! Let's hope its not a false dawn.

Many, many thanks to all who offered suggestions, advice and support. It so often gave my flagging spirits a much needed lift and increased my determination not to be beaten.

Robin.

Good luck Robin,
let's hope you've finally cracked it and you can enjoy driving and owning her once again, besides giving your wallet a rest!
That's one heck of a lump to have to handle :o

Brian
8227 8)

Excellent - and thanks for sharing it (warts and all). Compelling reading, plenty of lessons learnt and the right result, touch wood - to quote Big Chris "it's been emotional"  :D

Have a good time.
Neil

Thats really good news Robin, we are going over for the day on saturday to Malven, so may see you there.

Fantastic news Robin.  Like everyone else, I really hope that the problem has finally been solved and you can enjoy owning Modestine again.

Great news Robin!

Fanalone gearbox rebuild next??

Steve

Steve. you don't know how close you are :o  Robin will explain, and i'm back in me chair again ???

Here's a pic of Modestine at Malvern

Well, Modestine did make the ball but alas midnight came all too soon!

Having, well and truly burnt the midnight oil we arrived at Malvern on Sunday evening and Monday saw us off to the Fly In Picnic at Shobdon some 30 miles away. Those first miles were so stressful expecting any minute a drop in the fantastic oil pressure and noises from the engine. However, all was well and we arrived in fine fettle to be greeted by John Millham on marshalling duties at the entrance gate. Terrific day spent in the company of hundreds of vintage cars and their owners with the added bonus of vintage aircraft, some of which flew in spite of the wind and occasional rain.

The homeward journey was completed in a much more confident manor which confidence evaporated at the entrance to the Malvern Show Ground with a complete loss of forward motion.  We eventually coaxed her to our camping pitch and discovered that the tapered connection between the gearbox output shaft and the Hardy Spicer prop shaft joint had failed in a big way. Something which had happened once before.

Tuesday was Homes and Gardens day and we travelled with John Millham in his Augusta. Our first visit was to the home of Brian and Monica Gray who John knew and Brian came up with the suggestion that he ring Alistair Tempelton (a local well known in vintage circles engineer) who agreed to have a look so off we went. He cleaned the coupling up but could do little more except suggest that we visit a nearby agricultural engineers with a view to welding the whole thing together as a temporary measure. They wanted to see the gearbox shaft so we went back with the car on the trailer in the afternoon.

They wanted the rear end plate off of the gearbox and when we removed it there was so much damage and masses of swarf floating about that they advised against any temporary solution. John and I agreed and gave up the quest to get her operational for the rest of the week's activities.

So, as Roger said, you were close Steve, just the wrong gearbox! and Roger, sorry, but you can't vacate that chair just yet!

However, we had a great week, I'll perhaps write it up in the VSCC 75th thread and as Ade's picture shows, did make the static display on Saturday. She's back home again now waiting for the gearbox to come out for dismantling. I'll post some photos in the next day or so.

Oh, and the journey home was a disaster when the radiator on the tow van burst resulting in AA recovery and arriving home at 3am.

Robin.

Hi Robin,
Sorry to hear of your further problems. :'(

Pleased to hear you had a great time despite everything.

Your not related to Captain Ahab or the flying Dutchman are you  ::)
I hope you get her sorted soon.

Brian
8227 8)

Sorry to hear that Robin.

I suppose some small (?) consolation is that the engine seems to be O.K so far.

Hope you have a change of luck soon!

Steve

Pictures of the damaged coupling.

The gearbox will need to come out of the car, be opened up and thoroughly cleaned. The taper on the output shaft will need machining, the keyway and thread re-cut  and the flange remade to suit.

Robin.

Hi Robin,
So sorry to see that amount of damage, I hate to think how bad you must feel about this now you seem to have got the engine problem sorted at long last, any idea of the sequence of events? did the break in flange wall come before or after the key came adrift? just as well you didn't try to drive it any further. :'(

Good luck with the repair.

Brian
8227 8)

Bu###r! just written a long reply and have to do it again, as Brian was posted as i was writing ??? >:( O ME GAWD!!  Look on the bright side, she let you down amongst pals and not in the middle of nowhere, so in a funny way she is trying to look after you, (Says he who's not paying the bills) ::) Let me know when you get to the rear bumper,as then you will have been front to rear ;) then maybe i can get orf this flippin chair ;D all the best from i am sure, all in the LMC.

Nice to be able to get the floor up like that.  Rather better than flat on your back or even working overhead.

David

Brian,

At least this time the problem is obvious which makes the solving of it that much easier, at least I haven't got to take the engine out! and as David notes, the floor coming out is a big bonus.

Most likely cause is that the last time it happened I had the taper in the flange made without carefully mating it to the shaft. It seems that it is vital that the two are a perfect fit. Even slight movement and the key wears and eventually comes out of its slot and bingo! Mike Benwell told me that you should be able to drop the two haves of the taper together and then not be able to move them.

So, lesson learnt and this time I'll have them machined and lapped together and ensure that everything is bolted up and split pinned properly. There's a hell'uv a lot of torque going through that taper with a 4lt V8 pushing along 2 tons of car so it needs to be right.

Roger.

Yes, if it has to happen then no better place. The help and sympathy offered was just amazing. There were those who were prepared to and did give up their planned activities to try and get her back on the road quickly, most notably John Millham. Thanks John.

So, Modestine continues to live up to her name, but like R.L. Stevenson from wence it came I still love her to bits!

Robin.

I didn't know the Modestine reference - and having looked it up WHY !!!????  Perhaps if I read the whole book I might understand but that car is no donkey...

"What I required was something cheap and small and hardy, and of a stolid and peaceful temper; and all these requisites pointed to a donkey"

"so that Modestine,[11] as I instantly baptized her, was upon all accounts the cheaper article. Indeed, that was as it should be; for she was only an appurtenance of my mattress, or self-acting bedstead on four castors."

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Annotated_%27Travels_with_a_Donkey_in_the_C%C3%A9vennes%27/The_Donkey,_The_Pack,_And_The_Pack-Saddle

David

True, David, she is not in her present form the accepted connotation of a donkey but when I bought her and the body it was an altogether different matter.

We named her when we were travelling across France in 2007 laden with lugage and occasionally being just a little cantankerous. Like RLS we had to prod her once or twice with a sharp stick! It's been a long and tortuous road but when RLS came to part with his Modestine it was with some regret and despite all the aggravation I've had with mine I would feel likewise if we had to part.

Anyway its a pretty name!

Robin.

My Augusta project is "April".   One on from the Earl of March specials, and a nod to the Aprilia engine. 

Someone unkindly pointed out that April is also the month of fools...   

The Latin derivation is "opening" being the flowering and rebirth of spring.

David

I had a Flavia Vignale project once,that was called effin ::) ;)

My sister had a Mini called Ethel - based on its worth.

The Austin 7 Special is called Flora - after someone shouted that from the pavement in encouragement.   I know its a Lancia forum but I can't resist posting some snaps.  The black wheels 19in wheels with Blockley 3.5in tyres are relatively recent as the VSCC won't tollerate the radials anymore, and quite right too.  I waited until the Blockley was available to avoid motorbike tyres which give me the heebiegeebies.   The original radiator shell was made from a wok lid.  Twenty years on its STILL not finished, but conversely its still improving.

David

Robin

Really sorry to hear that, having been resurrected, Modestine has now shed her propellor shaft.  I wonder whether a sound thrashing a la Basil Fawlty would help.  The good news is that Lancia used standard Hardy Spicer couplings on the early cars, the company still operates as part of GKN in Birmingham, and Andy there is very helpful and can, or could until recently, supply companion flanges with the right keyway and taper off the shelf.  And he may be able to help with the re-machining of the output shaft.  A complete new shaft was made up for Arthur Keeling's Dilambda and Les will phone over the weekend to explain what was involved.

John

Many thanks John, I'll follow that up.

Robin.

Have spoken with Andy and Dave at GKN Driveline and they are pretty confident that they can effect a repair.

So, got the gearbox out this yesterday afternoon, opened it up and removed the damaged shaft. In the post to GKN today.

Good job I did open the gearbox up as the roller bearing immediately behind the damaged taper was full of metal filings and would have been knackered in no time.

Robin.

Can i slacken off a bit on the straps? ;)

GKN Driveline built up and machined the taper on the gearbox output shaft and made a new propshaft flange to suit. All in a couple of weeks and at a very reasonable cost. Many thanks to John Turner for putting me on to them.

Re-assembled the gearbox on Saturday and hope to get it back in the car on Monday.

So, Roger, appreciate it if you could tighten the straps on your chair just until she's back on the road.  ;)

Robin.

Me and the seat are orf to the broads for a week on friday, so no comments from here. but good luck

Well, I drove the Dilambda for a mile or so last evening but had great difficulty selecting 3rd and 4th gears. They have always been problematical but are much worse now. I was not totally confident that they were meshing fully when the gearbox was on the bench.
 
Otherwise everything else seemed fine apart from the water pump which is leaking badly again! Very good oil pressure still.
 
So, gearbox out again I'm afraid. Funeral to go to today, Goodwood Revival Friday so hopefully get to it on Saturday.

Robin

There's something about getting a prize you really deserve - and when that car is running sweetly again...

David

I am kinda getting used to this chair ;) ;)

The box came out yesterday and was stripped down and carefully re-assembled. Seems to operate OK now on the bench so back in the car this week hopefully.

Robin.

Robin,
any nasties in there ??? or did it just need taking apart and putting back together again very carefully.

Brian
8227 8)

No, no nasties in fact didn't find anything obvious that was causing the selection problem. So, fingers crossed until it gets road tested.

Robin.

Box back in the car  (I'm really getting quite fast at that!) and a short test run went OK.

Whilst the box was out I had the sleeve on the bottom of the gear lever repaired which has improved gear changing enormously.

So, re-assemble the rest of the bits and pieces and indulge in some gentle longer runs.

Robin.   

I really hope that you have finally solved the problems and can start to enjoy Modestine again  :)

Another short run which suggests that all is well with the gearbox, oil pressure and water pump. However, front wheel vibration is getting steadily worse so, on Morris Parry's advice have had the tyres (which are just about at the end of their useful life) removed and checked the balance.

The wheels are well out of balance and not running true. So, they are away to see if they can be trued up by adjusting the spokes. The plan is then to secure metal to the rims to balance them, fit new Blockley tyres and balance again.

Robin.

Great news - that's a massive step forwards - albeit I expect it will be a few runs before you start to relax.

David

And don't forgrt to have the brake drums balanced. My Augusta drums were miles out, but Vibration Free ssorted them out. I'm glad the rest of the car is at last OK.
 Regards, John

Right soddit, enoughs enough, i'm out of me chair and staying out. ;) ;) well done Robin. whoo hoo!! ::)

Great news engine wise,  :D not so good wheels & Tyres ::), fingers crossed, hopefully nearly there. ;D

Brian
8227 8)

great news robin well done, when getting the wheels balanced did they pick up on the inside of the inner face and the outside of the spinner edge of hub?? often people just put 1 cone in the center at the spinner end and if you look carefully these are never round and on the car obviously they are located on the outer edge, the back face also needs support on the taper as the flage area is rarely true, we made an adaptor "like a dummy spinner " to go on the outer face and use a standard cone on the inner face, hope this helps , worth checking before you do anything to the wheels  ;)

Good news.....Shall I put you down as an entry for the Sliding Pillar? 

Wherever the wheels are being seen to - to me - the obvious place to get the Blockley tyres fitted is MWS, and if they can't balance it nobody can.

http://www.mwsint.com/

Having said that of course I completely ignore my own obvious advice  ::), and when I got my set of Blockley tyres (for the Austin 7) it was mail order and the local motorbike tyre place put them on.  Ten years ago they did a nice job balancing them, but with a new machine or new laws they couldn't help this time  :-\ so either I take it somewhere that can or live with it.  At the moment it just goes up and down the drive so no issue.

David

Thanks guys - its been a long slog! and I don't seem to be able to relax just yet. Margaret says I'm like a coiled spring when driving and seem never to take my eyes off the oil pressure gauge.

Thanks James for the balancing advice which naturally concurs with your dads. My local vintage workshop understand the requirements and will do the balancing for me. We also need to replace one broken spoke and two or three loose ones.

John, I'll see how things are before having the brake drums checked for balance. If the problem persists then Vibration Free it is, maybe with the car. They sorted Victor lanes Dilambda steering vibration and did a terrific job with my prop shaft.

I too purchased the Blockley tyres mail order from MSW  David, thought about making the journey to them at Slough but the £12 charge for next day delivery was too tempting.

SP rally is always high on my events to do list Ade, let's hope she makes it in 2010.

Robin.   

Got back yesterday after a couple of weeks in France only to discover that the front wheels have not been sorted and the new tyres not fitted. Disappointing to say the least as I was so looking forward to using her this weekend.

Robin.

Well, they had a go at fitting the new spokes without success and suggested that I have the wheels rebuilt by a specialist. I've had a look at them and after a chat with Morris Parry recon there's a good chance that I can do the job myself. The guy I bought the new spokes from said that it was something he could do and told me how to go about it, he just hadn't got the time to take the job on.

I've also come up with an idea on how to make up a mounting plate which will allow accurate fitting of the wheels to a modern wheel balancing machine. Watch this space.

Robin.

Hi Robin, if you get really stuck a company next door here build m/cycle wheels, and John the wheel builder knows his stuff, worth a call maybe, tell him you know me from Auto fx next door,(then call back when he hangs up ;)) SRM engineering 01970 627771 www.srm-engineering.com

Thanks Roger, I'l keep that in mind.

Robin.

The replacement spokes are in and I've had the plate made up to fit the wheels to the balancing machine. See picture.

It is made from an unusable knock on wheel spinner which, unlike the balancing machine cones, locates perfectly onto the wheel. The ears were ground off, a circular plate welded on and a hole to fit the balancing machine spindle bored in the centre.

It appears to work fine and the wheels without tyres are not far out of balance. Waiting for the rim tapes to arrive and then we'll fit the tyres and balance.

Robin.

With the tyres on the rims the wheels are so far out of balance that stick on weights are not an option. James Parry tells me that this is often the case with hand cut tyres. Lead strips wound round the spokes are an option but a visit to the tyre fitters yesterday found the operative unable and a tad unwilling to persevere.

So, where to now?  :-\

Robin.

NORTH WALES!!! ;D , robin its alot of hastle for you but you can try deflating the tyre and rotating it a third to half a turn on the rim, this SOMETIMES reduces the amount of weights required, if you get real headaches and cant sort it get them sent by courier to me and send your adaptor and i'll sort them out for you, good luck
james

Alas I haven't a photo to hand - but didn't cars of that period sometimes have three studs spread round the rim to bolt on stacks of disk weights?   Am remembering a bit bigger than 35mm film canisters - perhaps its even "containers" for weights.

David

David,

That's absolutely correct and something I've considered.

James,

Rang your unit yesterday to see if you were up for the challenge but Phil told me that you were away on yet another Lancia related quest!

I've located a carrier who will collect the wheels from me and deliver them to you at a reasonable cost, so, if your up for it North Wales it is!

Robin.

hi robin, the sickening thing is i was two thirds of the way too yours yesterday  ::), i'd been to brian hiltons on a flaminia parts quest , never mind though, get them sent to me with the adaptor and i'll get them sorted for you

MINERA TYRES & EXHAUSTS
UNIT 36
5 CROSSES IND EST
MINERA
WREXHAM
LL11 3RD

as soon as they're done you can arrange collection and try them!! should be done by the next day depending on what time they arrive and how busy we are at the time, look forward  to seeing them , james

Thanks very much James I'll get them off to you in the next day or two.

Robin.

Here's the story of the balancing!

http://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2492.msg17714#msg17714

Robin.

Wheels came back from James during the week and I fitted them today. Then did 40 fantastic miles of vibration free motoring. James, you're a star!  :-*

The oil pressure was way up there too and the gearbox worked well. Gear changes were much slicker having re-bushed the lever.

It's going to take a while to regain my confidence, can't take my eyes off the oil pressure gauge. Lots of local runs for the next couple of weeks and if all seems well I'll risk Dover and back - 150 miles round trip!

Wonderful to be back on the road with her.  :)

Robin.

Great news, and a good end to 2009  ;D

Great news Robin.  I am sure your confidence will return soon and you will enjoy driving Modestine again  :)

Wel  done Robin, James, & friends!

In South Africa some people say "Aanhou - wen" (if you keep trying you will win) while our McDougall family motto is "Buiadh no Bas" (victory before death!) so I know how you feel.

Well done chaps. I'm glad to hear you have sorted it out. Regards, John

I can't wait for the trip report!!   

Well done - at last....

David

I'm keeping my mouth shut in case I put the mockers on it. ::)

Brian
8227 8)

Well, don't wish to tempt fate but Modestine once again appears to be in rude health. 100 mile round trip to Brooklands today with Jim Baldwin from Cape Town on board passed without incident. 500 miles now since the engine rebuild, prop shaft re-furb, gearbox overhaul and wheel balancing so can I please now relax a little?

Lambda lunch in a couple of weeks time and then send the water pump off to have a modern seal fitted and get the water temperature gauge working. Attend to the several minor items that need sorting all in time for a splendid summer's motoring. Like I said, 'not wising to tempt fate'!

Robin.

Robin, Modestine looked and sounded great today, I am sure you have solved the issues now.

Your exhausts were very close to the ground when you got back on the track from where we were parked today, but they did not scrape,   which was a relief for all bystanders.  ;D

Well done Robin, lovely to see her again in apparent rude health, couldn't have really asked for better weather, although a tad warmer would have been welcome, thank you to everyone who turned out to meet Jim & Guy from South Africa, how about we make this a regular event on the calendar ;D

Brian
8227 8)

When I read Steve's comment that Modestine was featured on the new Forum header I looked in vain for a splash of yellow. Then I spotted the donkey!

I then went to Google images and came up with the following which seemed more than a little apposite.

"Why Modestine? I have named her after Robert Louis Stevenson’s donkey.  From a behaviourist’s analysis, Stevenson’s initially troublesome relationship with Modestine only improved, once he began to understand her character."

Attached picture is by Walter Crane from RLS's Travels with a Donkey.

Robin.

It's now been updated :)

Press the F5 button on your browser to get the latest image ....

On this evening's BBC Celebrity Mastermind- Modestine get a mention, Nigel Planer's topic was RLS when asked the name of his donkey, he scored maximum points in his section and went on to win.  (I managed to answer that question correctly too!!) ;)

In the hope that Modestine's engine, gearbox/prop shaft, front wheel balance are now sorted and in anticipation of much pleasurable summer motoring, I've taken her off the road for a month or so to deal with the list of minor problems that have been accumulating.

The water pump is with a guy in North Kent who successfully converted John Millham's Lambda pump to take a modern seal. I'm fed up with struggling to stop Modestine's leaking using traditional methods and matters came to a head recently when it was suggested that she was taking after me, old and incontinent!  :o

The water temperature gauge packed up a while ago and is with those lovely instrument repair people in Tunbridge Wells and both doors are off! They are very heavy and it's difficult to keep them from sagging. So, Jonathan has the six hinges and is going to ream them out and make new pins whilst I strengthen the frames and provide secure fixings for the hinges. Grill needs a small repair, door lock leavers require properly extending, window winder mechanisms (Fulvia!) need further modification, brake servo needs adjusting etc, etc.

Oh, and Jonathan's got the gearbox out of the Fanalone and that looks like a mammoth job and not a little expensive. :o Must start a thread on it.

Easter is the target!

Robin.

Progress is being made at last.

The water temperature gauge is back from Vintage Restorations and what a splendid job they have done. The water pump is back from John Dominey at Models and Prototypes Engineering Erith  and having converted it to take a modern seal, made a new impeller shaft, new end plate and fitted a greaser it looks absolutely stonking.

Can't recommend these two companies highly enough:

Vintage Restorations
Clocks   Instruments   Accessories
The Old Bakery
Windmill Street
Tunbridge Wells
Kent
TN2 4UU
01892 525899

Models and Prototypes Engineering
94 Park Crescent
Erith
Kent
DA8 3DZ
01322 345580

Now need to push on with the work on the doors.

Robin.

Oh Ye of little faith  ::)  I thought, OH NO :o when I saw Modestine in the subject line with no other comment, Phew!
Thank Heavens everything is OK, the water temperature Gauge looks like new, and a superb refurb of the pump.

Brian

Robin, so i guess you wont be at the GNW this weekend in her ::) ::)

Spot on Roger! First club event will be the Sliding Pillar Rally if all goes well.

Robin.

The previous owner didn't pass on the serial plate when I bought the rolling chassis from him and it's always bugged me that its missing. Searched Dilambda on Ebay recently and wonder of wonders there was one advertised in America.

Jerry Turner runs Nostalgic Reflections reproducing plates for all manner of transportation. Not cheap but acid etched and beautifully finished and stamped in a period style with the correct chassis number. www.nostalgicreflections.com.

It arrived yesterday and I was astonished at the effort Jerry puts into the presentation. The plate is attached to a piece of card with the details written on it in the most amazingly flamboyant script. The envelope is similarly decorated. I hope that the detail is visible on the attached photo.

All I need to do now is distress and age it a bit!

Robin.

.................I could lend you a hammer!!!

A lovely job - such a shame to mess with it.  Surely it will age with time...

David

Yep, spot on David, it looks the business!  :)

Robin.

First outing today after the winter fettling and Modestine performed well. Great not to have the water pump leaking, reassuring to have the water temperature gauge working and the doors have lost most of their rattles with the re-furbished hinges and frame strengthening.

Should soon have the Nivex petrol gauge working courtesy of Morris Parry. I'll save the full story for later. And the brake servo still needs some adjustment.

So, with renewed confidence we look forward to a much happier summer with her than the last two.

Robin.

Modestine's new home - lucky girl!

Photos to follow!

Robin.

That's a modest (did you see what I did there  ;D ) little lean-too you're assembling!

It looks a bit big for just one car - any Modestine-ettes on the way. Looks lovely.

Le Nivex Fuel Gauge.

When I purchased my Dilambda the original Le Nivex fuel gauge was missing having been replaced with a Hobson Teluguage (? spelling) which had largely disintegrated. Beaulieu Autojumble produce a Nivex and pump all be it for 56L instead of the Dilambda's 85L and no tank unit. A four year search for a tank unit proved fruitless and in despair I of course turned to Morris Parry who offered to have a go at constructing one for me. My son Jonathan made a suitable plate for the tank and the whole lot was sent off to North wales.

Make no mistake about it, the man is a genius! I'm still not sure that I am totally clear on how the thing works but I'll have a go at describing it. You pull and release a plunger on the dash board which sends a pulse of air to the tank which travels down a  small diameter tube inside a larger tube  to the bottom of the tank. The larger tube is connected to the gauge on the dash board the needle of which rises to give a reading. A non return valve ensures that fuel doesn't reach the gauge. See, told you I don't fully understand how it works!

Well, to cut a long story short, Morris built a test rig out of what looks like baked bean cans and having constructed the tank unit calibrated a new dial face to measure 85 litres. The calibration was complicated by the fact that the fuel tank on the Dilambda is a cylinder laid on it's side resulting in the need for a non linear scale.

The photographs attached show what a beautiful job Morris has done, I can't thank him enough and this short piece scarcely if at all conveys any idea at all of the hours he must have spent. Hopefully he can be persuaded to write up the work more fully so that others can benefit from his efforts.

So, all that remains is to install it all on the car - I'll report back soon.

Robin.

Neil,

Not any more they don't! Thanks for the tip off!

Robin.

Let's hope she appreciates such luxury and keeps being a good girl, as after all she was a naughty girl for a long time!

now do you see how easy my life is lol   ;D

Sorry Neil, jumped to conclusions and missed the subtlety of your play on words. Thanks for taking the time to explain and put my mind at rest.

So, modest it isn't but then again, she is a big girl! The Fanalone will take up a bay and another will be largely taken over with a four post lift and machines etc. However, another project is a distinct possibility - but don't tell Margaret!  ;)

Robin.

Well, what a confidence boost! 500 miles over the weekend attending the Sliding Pillar Rally in Somerset but not however, without incident.

Having spent the Wednesday dealing with the jobs still outstanding from the winter fettling we set off on Thursday and with just 20 miles completed the ignition light illuminated and we were without dynamo output for the rest of the weekend. Approaching the M4 junction on the M25 the water temperature suddenly rose alarmingly and in no time the bung exited the top of the radiator and we were showered with boiling hot water. This after we had already been twice brought to a standstill when the main fuse dropped out of it's holder. Topped up the radiator and abandoned the motorway to continue cross country to our overnight stop at Ashton Keynes.

Arriving at Keith Bowley's Ashton Keynes Vintage Restorations, amongst other things we got to inspect the ex 'Steady' Barker Dilambda which Keith is rebuilding. The standard of workmanship is to the highest standard and when finished this is going to be a very fine motor indeed. An evening meal taken at the local hostelry and noticing a couple of pictures of Fulvias on the wall it turned out that the landlord was a long time Lancia fanatic and one time club member.

Set off next morning and noticed an exhaust blow developing which was upsetting the smooth running of the engine and an oil leak from the filter where it attaches to the block. The fuse departed company with it's holder again and finding ourselves adjacent to a retail park we called on Mr Halfords, bought a fuse holder and fuses, a battery charger, oil and a  drip tray.  Fitted the fuse holder and made the hotel without further ado.

Saturday on the tour we encountered a fast straight section of road which in places resembled corrugated iron. Inevitably the low slung Dilambda caught the exhaust and stretched the flexible portion on one side unwinding it like a spring. Sounded great but ran like a bag of old nails!

Following the Sunday visit to Cheddar and Wells I managed to effect a repair to the exhaust which improved the performance enormously and the 200 mile run home on the Monday was a delight.

So, we triumphed in the face of diversity and as reported in the Events 2010 section, had a most enjoyable time. The journey home proved that when she is good she is very, very good but my goodness me, when she is bad she is horrid!

Robin.

Well done Robin. It puts my exhaust manifold problems on the Giro into perspective!

Neil

My local auto electrical firm have had a look at the dynamo and reckon that the armature needs a rewind as the original cotton insulation has deteriorated too far to make a repair viable. The field windings are not great either.

They are not keen to get involved and Morris Parry has suggested that I try Rockhall Auto Electrics in Derbyshire. I've spoken to them and they certainly appear to know what they are talking about and indeed, do everything including rewinding, in house. So, the dynamo is off to them tomorrow and I'll let you know how they perform.

Looks likely that I'll be relying on the battery charger for the AGM!  :(

Robin.

Goodness me, is it Listed?
David

Found time last weekend to fit the Morris Parry refurbed Nivex petrol gauge and it works a treat.

You pull and release a dashboard mounted plunger which passes air through a non-return valve and then down a small tube inside a larger one, both of which reach to the bottom of the tank. The air bubbles up through the fuel inside the larger tube to occupy the space at the top, then on to the gauge itself and 'Hey Presto!' the aneroid barometer like mechanism registers the fuel level. At least I think that's how it works!

So, many, many thanks to Morris for all the R & D, producing a superb dial for the gauge and  constucting the tank unit. (See previous pictues.)

Any one need a redundant Dilambda dip stick. And before you jump to conclusions, that a'int  me!

Robin.

Nice work, 
funny though the Gamma has a similar system for checking the oil level from the drivers seat

What's the method for printing the dial face?

David

David.

As far as I'm aware Morris designs the dial face on his computer and then prints it on to decent quality paper using a standard printer.

Robin.

Hi Robin. AGM this weekend?? 85litres :o must slurp a bit then 8)

Ummm... 10 miles to the gallon if I'm lucky!  :o

Robin.

Dynamo Update.

Not good news. The field windings need re-newing although the armature looks OK and will be cleaned up, dipped in varnish and put on a test rig to ensure that it performs under load. The cutout/voltage regulator needs re-winding and new contacts. The wire needed is very thin and unobtainable, the contacts are beyond repair and also not available. So, it looks as though a modern replacement will have to be obtained and the windings re-wound to suit the dynamo. The replacement will be sighted out of sight and the original, which is mounted on top of the dynamo, removed leaving the cover in place to retain an appearance of originality.

It's a shame when OE can't be retained but I'm not a stickler for complete originality, especially if the modification is not obvious. For me reliability is king!

Apart from the dynamo Modestine is in rude health and for once I'm enjoying lots of summer motoring in her.

Robin.

Why not use a modern Bosch regulator? They look very similar to the old version and are still obtainable as fitted to VWs, I believe. They are now made in Brazil. I use them on both of my Lancias and have had no trouble with them. Regards, John.

Thanks John, I'll put that sugestion to Rockhall Auto Electricals.

Robin.

Oil Pressure.

One of the difficulties highlighted by the more than fair share of disappearing oil pressure with Modestine in the past is that the gauge isn't calibrated in increments instantly recognisable. See Photo.

So, removed the gauge from the car and hitched it up to a foot pump and now I know that 1 on the scale is 20psi, 2 40psi and 3 60psi. what the 30 at the top of the scale is I don't know.

At cold start 3 is indicated. When hot and at 40mph 2, 30mph 1 and around .5 at tick over.

So, all would seem to be OK but it is nice to know!

Anyone come across a similar gauge?

Robin.

Perhaps the 30 needs to be replaced with £££

David

The normal Lambda gauge which came with my car is also calibrated 1...2...3....30 and states below "kilogrammes". Could it mean kg/sqare cm?
 Regards, John

We did wonder if it might be but 1kg/cm is 14.2psi and unless the foot pump gauge is way out it seems a bit on the low side.

Robin.

Robin,
Have you ever known a gauge on a footpump to be accurate?
Brian
8227 8)

I think you will find that each interval is 1 bar or, as John suggests about 1 kg/cm sq or about 14.5 p.s.i.   The gauge on my 7th Lambda and I think all earlier cars is calibrated in 'metri d'acqua' (which if you know the cylinder head gasket is very appropriate). Ten metri d'acqua are the same as one bar though I always find running at ten whatevertheyare in the Lambda more reassuring than running at one whateveritis in the Augusta. 

John

Thanks John, looks as though I need to use a more accurate test method for my gauge. Maybe one day I'll rid myself of this paranoia over oil pressure.  ::)

Justifiable under the circumstances!

Brian
8227 8)

Robin

For what my opinion is worth I would say that the fact that you get a fairly thumping pressure on a cold start would indicate that all is OK. The drop off as the engine heats up could be more down to the grade of the oil? An old mechanic friend of mine used to say that a glimmering oil warning light at the end of a long run on a hot day was never something to worry about.

My Lambdas run at similar oil pressures and I think that that is OK as they both have immaculate bottom ends and rebuilt oil pumps.  I use 10/40 semi-synthetic oil with modern filters.  Good oil flow is important as at least half the function of the oil is cooling so I am not convinced that putting thick (more viscous) oil in to raise the pressure is a good idea as it will reduce the flow through the bearing.  The modern oils have much better lubrication properties than 30 grade mineral oil.  I recall that my Rover SD1 V8 ran at a design pressure of 30psi which is only 2 bar and that was a much more stressed engine than a Lambda.  The Book of Words on the Lambda states that a pressure of less than 1(bar) at full speed is worthy of investigation.  Stop worrying, if you know the bearings and pump are OK then all is well.

On the other hand, I had an Aprilia with excellent oil pressure and a run big end.  The rattling was terriffic.

David

The dynamo arrived back 1st September, just as I went on holiday to France and I've only just got round to re-fitting it.

It now has a Lucas cut out and regulator hidden away to replace the burnt out unit which sits on top of the dynamo. The wiring diagram sent by the repairers was not compatible with the Dilambda circuitry but once again Morris Parry came to the rescue.

So, to the naked eye all appears to be as original, the bonus being that we now have a completely overhauled dynamo poking out the required 10 amps.

Bill Hearsum (one of the 'old school') of Rockhall Auto Electrics did a first rate job with a fast turn round. He even went as far as to rewind the coils in the cut out to suit the dynamo. However, it wasn't cheap!

Rockhall Auto Electrics, Valley Road, Hayfield, High Peak, Derbyshire, SK2 22LP.  01663 742539

Robin.

I shall remember that its not original if I ever judge the concours ;) :D

Confidence in Modestine's reliability took another hard knock yesterday when she boiled just before arriving at the VSCC Brooklands' New Year meet and again within a mile or two of leaving for home.

So, investigation begins on Monday to try and find the cause.

Robin.

On a brighter note, I stopped for fuel a few miles from home on the way to Brooklands and a gentleman approached and asked if it was the V8 Lancia. Turned out to be Dick Crossthwait of Crossthwait and Gardener who rebuilt and much modified a Dilambda some years ago.

I purchased some S1 wheel rims from them at the time and sold them recently to a chap in Belgium who is doing a re-construction of a racing Dilambda.

Dick suggested I call in and see him sometime as he has 1 good second hand and 1 brand new Dilambda cylinder head gasket which could be mine for a donation to the tea kitty. Result!  :)

Robin.

I'm sorry I can't offer any sage advice except my commisserations Robin.  :(

However, maybe this will sweeten things up a bit, and put a little smile on the dial while making a donation to the tea kitty.

(On the other side it has printed "MULTI MERCANTIL SA 6593 CADENAZZO", and a sketch of a 1901 Fiat 8 HP.)

As I suspected, the over heating was due to failure of the water pump drive. The square end of the pump shaft (pic 1) locates in a square hole in a plate which is bolted to one of the timing chain sprockets and this hole had become rounded instead of being square (pic 2).

My local restorers drilled the hole oversize,  pressed in a piece of steel bar and then spark eroded the square hole. (pic 3)

All is well once more as demonstrated by a trouble free run into central London for the Lambda Winter Lunch on Saturday last.

Robin.

Great job, pleased it was nothing more serious for a change ::)

Brian
8227 8)

Fame at last! Modestine made the front cover of ... No, not Hello Magazine ... ... but Classic Motor Monthly incorporating The Autojumbler. It was advertising a report inside on ... ... Old Farts Run! I trust Modestine is suitably insulted!
See photos. Regards, John

"Old Farts Run", my invite obviously got lost in the post.   ;D

Come on John,
Where's the inside report, do keep us waiting with bated breath!

Brian
8227 8)

Insulted? I should say so, especially as SHE WAS NOT THERE!

She was at Brooklands on New Years Day and although she consorts regularly with an 'Old Fart' she is most certainly too much of a lady to refer to him as such.  :-*

She is taking legal advice as to whether she can bring charges of mis-representation and deformation of character against  Classic Motor Monthly. The cheek of it!  >:(

Robin.

Steering wheel shake has been an ever present problem in varying degrees with Modestine since 2006 and with a very busy summer ahead I decided to have it investigated by Vibration Free who are just off the M40 at Oxford. And am I glad I did!

Two days after driving the car up to them Steve Smith rang with good and bad news. The good news was that he was pretty sure that he had identified the problem, it being that the front wheels were 8 degrees toe out instead of 3 degrees toe in. This was an identical fault he had diagnosed on Victor Lane's then Dilambda some years ago. The bad news was that there was no adjustment left to correct the fault and worse still that the off side track rod ball and pin was almost fractured through and had been for some time! See photo.  :o

He could provide the necessary adjustment by shortening the track rod but could I supply two new track rod ends - not a chance! Committed to using the car for a friends wedding in 10 days time I went into panic mode. This resulted in a phone call to Keith Bowley at Vintage Restorations Ashton Keynes who is rebuilding the ex Ronnie Barker Dilambda. He very kindly lent me his overhauled track rod which Steve collected and used to repair mine.

So, a week after leaving the car with VF I collected it and drove the 120 miles home devoid of steering shake for pretty much the first time since 2006.  Summer here we come!  :)

To date I had not got round to investigating fully the Bijur one shot lubrication system which, by depressing a peddle under the instrument panel, delivers a shot of oil to various moving parts in the drive train, suspension and steering. I now know that one of the copper pipes from the oil reservoir feeds to the steering box and thence by a small bore tube on the inside of the drop arm and drag link to the offside track rod joint. A further tube inside the track rod then carries oil to the nearside joint. It appears that the feed to the track rod ends has been ineffective which hasn't helped.

Vibration Free are well worth contacting if you need anything balancing or a vibration diagnosed. http://www.vibrationfree.co.uk/index.html They also made a prop shaft for Modestine a few years ago.

Robin.

Robin.

Now that could have been really nasty, Ouch!

Brian
8227 8)

 OK so 'one swallow doesn't make a summer' but it seems that after several false dawns I may at last have got to the bottom of Modestine's erratic running. Having stripped and cleaned the carburetor  for the umpteenth time  she ran splendidly for the 120 mile return trip to the Goodwood Festival of Speed today. Fingers crossed eh?

Robin

Yes - fingers crossed for you Robin, along with everything else crossed too!

Enjoy Goodwood and we all look forward to hearing about it afterwards.

Regards

Andy

I 've engoyed following your thread about Modestine, I think I know her very well at this stage, I'm sure She be at the Agm. Thanks David. ;D

MOT yesterday and a pass which was celebrated by adjusting the slipping clutch (yes, it can be done on a Dilambda). Fair bit of dismantling but Jonathan's help and the four post lift made light work of it. 8)

Robin.

Robin, good news another year on the road, you know how to have fun!  ;)  Do you fancy any trips to Surrey later this month, we have 2 events planned 17th at Clandon Park and 24th Painshill Park?

Neil

Sorry Neil, fully commited for both of those days.

Robin.

4 lovely ladies  :)

Modestine pressed into School Prom service  8)

Robin

Lovely way for any young lady to arrive. ;D

Brian
8227 8)

OK, so you're probably all getting a tad bored with this saga but not as much as I am! The attached photos were taken yesterday!!
 
Modestine has developed another irritating tapping noise on tick over and having had the Welsh Wizard, aka Morris Parry, listen to it down the phone we decided that it was prudent to have a look inside just in case something nasty was going on.
 
Not a daunting task as I could do it in my sleep now. The good news is that everything appears to be in fine fettle which is a relief. So, assemble carefully checking valve and ignition timing and see what we have.
 
Could it be piston slap accentuated by slightly too advanced ignition timing? Watch this space!
 
Robin.

All back together and nothing found to tie in with the tapping noise, although it does now seem to be less evident after a few miles.

 So, ready for the off to the LMC National Rally at Gloucester. 160 miles via Motor Wheel Services at Slough for some new Blockley tyres and Keith Bowley's Ashton Keynes Restoration at Swindon to check  the progress on Steady Barker's Dilambda restoration.

Robin.

Fingers Crossed ;)

One or two members have kindly inquired as to why there have been no updates to this thread, even wondering if there was a sinister reason. Well, I did think that maybe I was beginning to weary you all with the seemingly unending catalogue of ups and downs Modestine seems hell bent on putting me through. However, the view count of the thread moves ever upwards so I relent and here is a résumé of the past six months.

Prior to the 2011 AGM Weekend I stripped the engine to investigate the knocking noise on tick over but found no obvious cause. The problem still exists and the general consensus is that it is most likely piston slap associated with the two modified pistons I fitted a couple of years ago. One benefit of the strip down was that I took the opportunity to clean out the engine water jacket and was astonished at the amount of debris removed. See picture 1. :o

I had also been plagued for a long time with contact breaker point gaps closing and on investigation found them to be totally knackered and shorting out. So, I had the distributor modified to electronic ignition. No bolt on kit was available so the work was carried out by Jolly Engineering of Malvern http://www.classicheads.com. A splendid job with nothing visible externally to give away the modification and greatly improved starting, idling and acceleration. Apologies to the purists. :-[

On to the AGM. The plan was to travel via Motor Wheel Services at Slough and have two new Blockley rear tyres fitted and all the wheels balanced. The Blockleys are slightly smaller than the Michlins and refused to pop out evenly to the rim bead. After three hours of struggle the tyre fitter was satisfied they were OK and I set off. Five miles down the motorway one of them punctured so on with the spare and back to MWS. Three hours later and a new tyre refused to co-operate so they re-fitted the worn Michlins and I set off once more. Too late now to visit Keith Bowley at Ashton Keynes Vintage Restorations to view progress on the Steady Barker Dilambda so on to Cheltenham arriving halfway through the evening meal.

Navigatorless for the Saturday tour (Margaret preferred to be in France with the family! :'() John Millham offered to come along and a super day we had. Not least because he drove Modestine and was able to give an objective view on how she went. Steering shake, heavy steering, brakes requiring way to much pressure and very high revs in top gear did not endear the old girl to him at all! Not at all like a good Lambda don’t ya know? ???

The rest of the weekend passed off very agreeably and I particularly enjoyed dressing up 1930s style as requested for the gala Dinner. 8) Picture 2 courtesy Tony Harrison.

Sunday evening it was off to Portsmouth to catch the overnight ferry to France and revel in 10 days motoring on their superb empty roads. Met a guy at a Vide Grenier (boot fair) who was selling motoring bits who, spotting my Lancia Club badge said that he had a Belna. Arranged to visit later in the week and indeed he has a very nice Belna and was thrilled to get up close and personal with a Dilambda, a model he had never seen in the metal. Photo 3. Sadly I did manage to reverse into a stone wall and damage the nearside rear wing which still awaits repair.

Home again, having left Margaret in France to await the arrival of the other half of the family I had a week running a kids camp and honour a booking for Modestine to strut her stuff as wedding transport. Lovely feeling to have Modestine putting money in my pocket for a change! 8) Incidentally for your interest, Footman James say that I can do up to ten paid for weddings in a year provided I notify them and pay £15.99 each time. I’ve since learnt that this only applies to weddings and funerals and that all other hire would require a private hire licence which is about £120 per year. Even if it’s for a relative or friend and you charge nothing you must not accept anything in kind.

All good stuff until it came time to return to France. I had arranged for MWS to collect the wheels and sort out the tyres and to return via MWS to Keith Bowley the track rod I had borrowed from him earlier in the year. Left my track rod with my local vintage repairers for them to make new joints. A week into my French leave and Keith rings to ask where his track rod is – long story short, the carrier had lost it! :o It took a week to convince them that they had picked it up and for them to find it at their Leeds depot instead of Heathrow where it should have gone. All still perfectly labelled and at a huge cost in mobile phone calls.

Big disappointment on my return home to find that there had been absolutely no progress in making the new track rod ends so retrieved them and sent them to Omicron who did a splendid (if costly) job of making new ones in under a month. Fitted in no time, tracked up locally and on the road once more.

Out and about regularly up to the New Year including a super Lambda Lunch at the Phoenix, Hartley Wintney where attendees included Steady Barker who’s reminiscences  were a joy to listen to ably prompted by Jack Romano.

So came to an end 2011, a year in which, by and large, Modestine behaved herself very well and we had a lot of fun. However, the clutch? Watch this space! ::)

Great Robin,
I'll never get bored with reading about Modestine even if sometimes it's enough to make me weep in sympathy :'(

Brian
8227 8)

Keep writing Robin, always an inspiration !!!

I'm not aware of actually having seen a Dilambda, a little upmarket for Essex, but I'm always interested to see what she been doing to you !!

Best wishes,

                Andy

Back in January I alluded to problems with the clutch and this was only finally (I hope!) resolved on the Friday afternoon of the Sliding Pillar Rally.

The clutch had become almost inoperative in December last and stripping it out revealed that a large casting which has the trust race at one end, a large square section spring in the middle and the fingers located in slots at the other end was disintegrating. One finger wasn't doing anything at all. 1st picture. The thrust race carrier was also cracked.

The decision was taken to weld up the damage, machine and install back in the car. On the way home from the Lambda Winter Lunch in January it was obvious that all was not well and subsequent inspection revealed that other parts of the casting were breaking up. So, after discussion with the 'Welsh Wizard' aka Morris Parry it was decided to remake the part from a 4" diameter billet of mild steel. Son, Jonathan, agreed to take on the work which took a long time on his Myford Super Seven lathe which wasn't really big enough for the job. However he persevered and made a super job of it although sadly we didn't get a photo of the finished piece until it was assembled in the pressure plate. Pictures 2, 3 & 4

A week to go to the SPR and we were quite relaxed but having got it all back together in the car we found that the new piece was sticking in the pressure plate resulting in clutch slip. Clutch out once more, made all the more arduous as having recently moved the four post lift hasn't yet been erected. Pulling the thrust race off so that we could clamp the new piece in the lathe to remove the high spots the thrust race carrier cracked again. It's Thursday evening and I'm worn out and reluctantly give up the struggle to get the car to the rally next day. I'm still not certain that there wasn't a smile of relief on Margaret's face that we would have to take the BMW!

However, lying awake early next morning I conclude that as there is a blacksmith in the village who was well able to weld the carrier I should at the very least give it a shot. So, clutch out, stripped down and with the smith as he opens up at 8am. He agrees to help and by 10am I'm back home and fitting everything back together. Test run at 2pm, all seems fine so on the road by 4pm. Big mistake! M25 at that time on a Friday is just plain daft and eventually we give up, leave the motorway and strike off across country arriving at rally HQ at 8.30pm. In retrospect we would have arrived at the same time had we left at 7pm.

Fantastic rally as always and Modestine performed out of her skin until just before Sunday lunch when the ignition packed up altogether.

To be continued!

Robin.

As an aside to the clutch saga the attached picture shows my ingenious (well, I think it is!) method of compressing the clutch spring to allow the 8 bolts of the distance piece (removal of which allows the clutch to be extracted without removing the gearbox) to be fitted. Those of you who have been following this thread will remember that fitting the bolts the other way round (although easier) resulted in the machine gun rattle that defied detection for so long. The ratchet strap is anchored to the front axle and a coil spring compressor hooked over the fork arm thus allowing controlled compression of the spring.

I really must write up the removal and installation of the clutch sometime as it is fiendishly complicated. Turin 2006 it took two very experienced Lancia mechanics best part of a day to figure it out.

Robin.

Sorry chaps I'm on a roll so, let's  bring the story so far up to date.

On the Sliding Pillar Rally just before Sunday lunch  the ignition system packed up altogether. Many thanks to Reg Maybury (Rachel nee Wilcock's husband and Roy's son-in-law) )who towed us to the lunch stop assisted by James Parry. I then took a huge amount of stick for converting the distributor to electronic ignition which precluded any hope of repair and resulted in our homeward journey being courtesy of AA Recovery. On the bright side we saved about £60 worth of petrol!

Returned the distributor to the guy who carried out the conversion to find that the module had indeed failed which he replaced under warranty.  I am totally unrepentant for the doing the conversion having enjoyed perfect starting, smooth running and lovely tick over since. However, I will now be carrying a spare module, coil and a set of refurbished points!

Robin.

 RAC Midsummer Drive-In 2012 RAC Club Woodcote Park Epsom Downs.

I was recently contacted by Elaine Moore wife of the late Prof Peter Moore (known to many of you) who amongst other cars owned a 1929 Ex Maharaja Dilambda. She is having it restored and believe me it will be very impressive when finished. With Elaine's permission I will post on the car.

Elaine invited me as a guest to this event and asked me to display Modestine, which of course I was happy to do. What was a complete shock was that she was chosen as the best pre war car against, I might add. some very strong opposition. It is not just a straight concourse competition relying as much on the history of the car etc which no doubt weighed in Modestine's favour. Coupled undoubtedly with the fact that one of the judges owns a rare Lambda with a racing history! Whatever, she won and I'm exceedingly proud of her.

It was a superb event held in magnificent surroundings and culminated in a first class dinner.

Here's the link;  http://www.royalautomobileclub.co.uk/Motoring/Midsummer-Drive-In

Robin.

Well done again Robin, you will be needing a trophy cabinet in that nice garage of yours soon!

Congratulations Robin, and who was the Judge with the racing history Lambda? A club member?
 Regards, John

Hi John,

His name is Barry Baxter and he's the chap without a tie on the right of the photo looking at the Oldsmobile Runabout. Not a club member although he has been asked to join in the past.

Robin.   

Mr Baxter is on the VSCC computer as having two Lambdas, one registered (1929, K xxx) and the other without a registration number. I couldn't find details of either car, as they don't seem to have buff ( or even blue) forms. I hope he can be persuaded to join the LMC. I'd love to know more about his Lambdas.
Regards, John

Steering Wheel Shake.

Off and on over the past few years Modestine has suffered from mild to severe steering wheel shake at around 25-30mph on uneven road surfaces. Latterly this has been a very real problem and all attempts to rectify it have failed. Years ago Arthur Keeling fitted a steering damper to his Dilambda to overcome this problem and indeed, the set up was still on his car when I saw it in Italy in 2002. See picture - sorry about the poor quality.

Morris Parry suggested that I try a similar thing and during my research I turned up a steering damper kit on offer for a Land Rover Discovery to aid serious off road use. So, I purchased the damper and the track rod bracket but not the chassis fixing it not  being adaptable to the Dilambda. Made a suitable chassis bracket and bolted it to the chassis. Pictures 2 & 3.

Result? Steering shake totally eradicated. The car now behaves perfectly and is a delight to drive. Perhaps the steering feels just a tad dead but that's a small price to pay.

Next?!! I'll get there one day!

Robin.

Robin,
congratulations on finally erradicating the steering problem, it's been a long hard road, and it's about time your luck with Modestine changed ;D

Brian
8227 8)

Just back from 1000 mile jaunt to collect Margaret and Dibble the cat from our house in the Vendee France and Modestine was a delight - almost! Great weather, roads in excellent condition and very little traffic - heaven!

The only blip was that on one morning she refused to start. Thought that it was petrol so stripped the carb but found nothing. Tinkered around with the wiring and fuses and she burst into life so assume it was a poor connection somewhere. Do hate it when no obvious cause is found.

Robin.

Great Stuff Robin,
pleased to hear Modestine is being a perfect lady, almost, last photo onboard looks a bit threatening with all the Camions.

Brian
8227  8)

"Do hate it when no obvious cause is found"

I agree absolutely Robin, it is so unsettling, you never know if/when it might strike again.

Glad you had a great trip to France. I do enjoy your contributions to the forum, a sort of  'everyday story of Lancia folk' !!

Best wishes,

                Andy

...but what a lovely place to strip bits of a Lancia.

Whilst grappling with the electronic ignition failure on the Sliding Pillar Rally it was suggested that I try and find a refurbished distributor fitted with points to carry as a spare. Peter Renou from Australia mentioned that he had one if I was interested and having discovered how rare the Bosch VF8 is (only one turned up on search and that on American Ebay at a very unrealistic price) I e-mailed Peter to accept his kind offer.

A very fair price was agreed and I collected it today from his daughter Meg and her husband who were passing through Gatwick Airport on a short  European tour.

It is in spanking condition looking as though it may never have been on a car and we shall see whether I continue with the electronic ignition or eventually revert to points.

Many, many thanks to Peter for his generosity and Meg for bringing it over.

Amusing aside: I found a BMW Isetta engine recently and sold it on Ebay delivering it to the buyer's father also today who lives 5 miles from me. And guess where it is going to? Yep, Melbourne Australia where Peter lives! Funny old world!

Robin.

If you're quick, you may be able to get in touch with Meg, arrange another meeting at Gatwick when she is on her way home and she could take it as hand luggage !! So neat !!!

                       Andy

As reported in the LMC AGM thread, having behaved herself faultlessly over the weekend Modestine disgraced herself by refusing to start on the Monday morning after over nighting with friends in Shrewsbury.

I spent two hours trying to get the engine to fire and with a further hour with the AA patrol man yielding nothing it was home on the transporter again. Or rather thee transporters as we had to make two changes due to drivers running out of taco time. Very frustrating, although it did save £60 worth of petrol!

The problem appeared to be the same as that experienced in France  a few weeks previously when having found no obvious cause she suddenly burst into life. Tried everything last week including abandoning the electronic ignition and fitting the 'Peter Renou' contact breaker distributor. Big fat nothing until once again she fired up and has run perfectly since.

So, I'll run on the points dizzy for a while and wait to see if the fault appears again, although I'm not sure that Margaret will be travelling with me in the near future!

Next project is to raise the ride height at the rear, firstly by having the springs reset and if that doesn't work to lift the body on the chassis. However, this may be put on the back burner as son Jonathan has got the bug again and is set on having the Fanalone at Fulvia 50 next May! Better start a new thread in the Fulvia section me thinks.

Robin.

these faults are really annoying (i mean realy annoying!). our fulvia sport died on us on our first rally abroad, and eciding the only cause could be the condenser in the distrubutor I cahnged it from the spare distributor I was carrying ( seems a Lancia habit!!) and she fired up and did not to stop since. However when I got home I found there was nothing wrong with the condenser.!! I subsequently re fitted the luminition system that came with the car having had good experience with the same system on my HF.

Tim

Poor old Modestine, had to take a back seat to the Fanalone rebuild since last October! However, in truth, she's been pretty reliable and in regular use. Took her to the Lambda Winter Lunch in London in January and various other outings up to and including Fulvia 50.

The return to contact breaker ignition has proved successful and she has started and run very well. Until that is just before Fulvia 50 when she developed a horrendous backfire! It was bad and I just couldn't find the time to investigate until after that event. But with the Sliding Pillar rally in France a couple of weeks away something had to be done. Ran her with the brake servo disconnected, no improvement, checked through the exhaust system to ensure no air was being drawn in, no improvement. Finally fitted a fuel pressure reducing valve to bring the pressure down to 1psi, adjusted the points which were a tad closed up and hey presto! no backfire. So, which of those two things was the problem I'll never know.

Last October I said that i would sort out the rear wings and valance to give more ground clearance and stop knocking off the number plate. So, the week before the SPR I removed the back wings, modified them to allow me to raise the trailing edge whilst leaving the front edge connected to the rear of the running board and thus increase the ground clearance by nearly 5 inches. Had to have the wings and valance re-painted but well worth it as she now not only doesn't drag her bum but looks so much better.

Off to the SPR and what a great event until that approaching a crossroads some 100 miles south of Calsis on the return journey, drop the clutch and tinkle tinkle clonk, pedel to the floor. Peeing with rain and lunch time  but a restaurant on the opposite corner which Margaret insists is the place to be. Following a more than acceptable lunch investigation shows that it's not the external linkage that's failed but something in the innards. Ring Footman James Recovery who send a truck inside the hour and wisk us off to the local garage.

Two hour wait during which negotiations result in us setting off for the port to be loaded onto the ferry the next morning having met up with our fellow travelling companions for the overnight stop. Arrive at the port 21.00 only to be told that we can't leave the car there and that whats more we can't be loaded as the Dilambda doesn't have a towing eye! Eventually do get towed on with a strap having given assurances that a recovery truck will be at Dover at mid-night to take us off. Arrive Dover, no tow truck but towed off with no problem. French bureaucracy eh!?

Recovery truck arrives 2am but will only take us to Maidstone where we are loaded onto another transporter and arrive home at 4.30am. However, must say, that FJ performed well for a second time for us when stranded in France (Fanalone gearbox on the way to Classic Le Mans last time) and to be home with the car some 14 hours after braking down was pretty impressive.

Strip the clutch out later that day to find that for a second time the clutch release bearing carrier has failed. So, Jonathan makes a new one out of steel and she's up and running again.

RAC 'Summer Drive In' at their Woodcote Park mansion at Epsom as the guest of Dilambda owner Elaine Moore this evening and the AGM at Newbury for this weekend. Hopefully! :o

OK, up to date.  :)

Robin.

Just back from the RAC summer drive in and can report Modestine looked splendid and made it away under her own power.

The feature I'd not noticed before was that the bumper irons telescope.

David

Here she is again - the header photo in a Veloce Today article:

http://www.velocetoday.com/fulvias-at-goodwood/#more-49915

Super evening at RAC Woodcote with Modestine attracting lots of attention. Good to see you there David, sorry we didn't get to chat.

Telescopic bumper shocks (see pic) always attract comment as does the massive sliding pillar front suspension and the shield shaped headlights. The wood frame hood people find irresistible not to touch!

I attended as the gust of the late Prof Peter Moore's wife Elaine who is restoring his Dilambda and judging by the photographs on her ipad it will be a truly magnificent car when finished.

Robin.

Very little to report on Modestine's summer activities. Sliding Pillar Rally just down the road from us at Eastbourne, the AGM in Cambridge and lots of local running about. No serious problems!

However, although unable to make the Lancia Club France rally in person she was there in spirit it seems. On the rally plate! Reported to me by Mike Benwell and Daniel Poitier arranged for a plate to be sent to me.

Some of you will have seen that I did advertise her for sale a while back but no serious takers so she stays with us for now.

Robin.

That is what I call a compliment !!

Modestine has been running rough and had poor brakes for some time now so not seen much use but with a wedding to do I gave her a good service and she's fine now.

Lovely summer day for the wedding and she was much admired. Plan to take her to France for the month of August and enjoy motoring on their wonderful roads. :)

Pictures are of the bride on arrival at the church with her father and she and the groom are sheep farmers! ::)

Robin.

Wonderful Robin, thank you for sharing


P

"Tempus Fugit" and even more so it seems as we get older. Where does the time go? Idly browsing through 'The Forum' I was astonished to find that it's 18 months since updating the Modestine story. I noticed to, that I started this thread in May 2008 some six years after purchasing her and two years after getting her to 'Turin 100'. So, I'll start the catch up with a post on the first four years, fill in the next two and add the last eighteen months.

Robin.

Excellent Robin, reread the VL article you wrote at the time,  I must go reread this thread also, thank you!

P

Text from Viva Lancia May 2007

Born Again Dilambda - phoenix like from the ashes.      
by Robin Lacey

I’ve been interested, the uncharitable but possibly more astute would say obsessed, by Lancia for over thirty years and in that time have owned various models of Fulvia, Flavia, Beta, Thema, Delta and Appia. The oft recurring dream was to own a pre-war model, preferably a Lambda but fate decreed something even more wonderful than that (well in my humble opinion!) a Series 2 Model 229 Dilambda, and this is the account of my first four years with ERF 294.

For those of you (and it has become evident to me that includes a great many Lancisti) who know little about Dilambda (incidentally pronounced Delambda), can I respectfully direct you to the Lancia bible, ‘La Lancia’. There you will find all that you need to know and perhaps the one thing above all to register is the fact that the Dilambda was the only Lancia produced using the shield shaped headlights, a dead give away as far as model recognition goes.

Research has revealed that she was sent to the body shop 12th February 1932, completed and road tested 4th March that same year. The next five years are a mystery until being first registered ERF 294 in England 10th March 1937. Early photographs suggest that she carried  a Pinin Farina saloon body and was, I know, owned by Mrs Ruth Telford Einzig who lived at Ashurst Wood near East Grinstead  in East Sussex. I well remember seeing said lady driving it around in the 60s usually accompanied by several large dogs and she is listed as a LMC member in the 1969 Register of Members of which I have a copy. In 1974, Philip Glynn, also living in East Grinstead, purchased the Dilambda and used it as daily transport for his veterinary practice visiting our then home at Horsted Keynes in it on several occasions to tend to my wife Margaret’s horses.

1978 and the car was looking pretty sad, so Philip decided to embark on a total restoration, stripping it down to the last nut and bolt. The body was sent to a friend of mine who had a joinery workshop in Haywards Heath where the timber frame was repaired. A couple of days before Philip was due to collect it an arsonist struck, the workshop was reduced to ashes and the body lost forever. The project was shelved and around that time the dismantled remains of the car were offered for sale. Ian Kemp (who some LMC members will remember) and I went to view but decided that it was a far bigger job than we had time for. In the event no one purchased it and Philip put it all into store intending to resurrect it at a future date.

Fast forward over 20 years to 2002 and Margaret and I were invited to attend a Riding for the Disabled event at which Philip was in attendance. I enquired after the Dilambda and having first expressed surprise that I remembered the car, he told me that in 1998 he had had it restored as a rolling chassis by a Rolls Royce specialist but was baulking at the not inconsiderable sum required to have a body constructed. Ronnie ‘Steady’ Barker had been to look with a view to fitting the James Young Saloon body from his Dilambda to Philip’s chassis as a short cut to restoring his car but in the event had decided not to purchase. Having just sold our dry-cleaning business interests I found myself unusually in funds and talked Margaret into going to have a look at the Dilambda with a view to purchase.

Not unnaturally, I fell in love with this 4 litre V8 giant and Philip, having decided that he was happy to see her go to me, a deal was struck. Driving home I was in 7th heaven believing that I had sold the idea to Margaret who had been rather skeptical about the whole thing from the start and all afternoon had played Devil’s Advocate to extraordinary lengths. She delivered her coup de grace when she announced that she would support the purchase but only when I had found a body for the Dilambda. In her book, having one made was completely financially unrealistic. What value a sensible, clear thinking wife, un-afflicted with the desire to rescue every and any vehicle carrying a Lancia badge?

I soon discovered that we were no longer in the 60s when vintage car bodies could be found at will and although spreading the net far and wide the result was a big fat nothing. I remembered that Morris Parry had built a splendid body from scratch for his Astura so gave him a call. Helpful as always, he talked me through the 15 years of toil he had been through to produce his masterpiece and I quickly formed the opinion that this was not for me. We were about to sign off when he said that he had seen a body from a 1930 Talbot 105 advertised in the VSCC Newsletter and dug out the telephone number for me. I rang Richard Heelis in Derby and sure enough he still had it and a viewing was arranged.

When my son Jonathan and I first saw the body, a Carlton Carriage Co. drop head coupe, he formed the opinion that his father had crossed what had always been the fine line into insanity where all things Lancia are concerned. He was already struggling to become attracted to the Dilambda rolling chassis but this pile of bits was a bridge too far. However, after making a few measurements and deciding that, given a fair wind, it would fit our car, the cash burning a hole in my pocket was handed over and the ‘pile of bits’ loaded into the trailer I had sensibly brought with us. Back home and with a little persuasion the various parts of the body were hung on the chassis and through my rose tinted spectacles there appeared a vision of the finished car, something which I was going to need to recall many times over the next three years in order to feed my, at times, fading conviction that the dream was attainable and further, not be deflected by the detractors who constantly expressed doubts that the task would ever be completed..

Around this time I discovered a picture of the late Arthur Keeling’s Dilambda in the 1st edition of Weernink’s La Lancia. Incredibly it had a Carlton DHC body very similar to the Heelis one I had bought. It took six weeks but eventually with the help of Will How and the Italian Lancia Club, we tracked it down to a private collection near Venice. The owner, Sig. Umberto Genovese very kindly allowed me to view it which helped us get some idea as to what we should be aiming for.

First job was to get a near side rear wing made as the original was missing. Telephoning various panel shops resulted in the realization that firstly, it was going to be inordinately expensive and secondly a long wait was the order of the day, so busy were they. One such call was to Ian Pitney who asked if I would be interested in contacting his father who was retired but liked to keep his hand in with the occasional small job. I readily accepted and met John Pitney who it turned out had had a lifetime’s experience in the trade having worked for the likes of Hooper and Sidney Allard before setting up on his own and eventually training his two sons. I took the off side wing to John who produced a nearside replica in five days and for a very reasonable sum. He was interested in seeing what I was up to and delivered the wing so as to have a look. He later told me that he was incredulous at the task I had set myself and decided that he had better help out. This resulted in him making the two and a half hour journey from his home one day a week for months and months until we were ready for painting. I will forever be in his considerable debt such was his dedication to see the job through.

Apart from the body there was the question of getting the engine running, something I kept putting off thinking that all would be well as it had been totally rebuilt. Big mistake! It just would not fire. Bob Seaney (local to me Lambda owner at the time) came over a couple of times and made the astounding discovery that a rodent had somehow got into cylinder bore 5 and built a neat little nest! It was duly removed but still the engine would not start. Paul Atkinson visited with Gerald Batt in tow and Paul checked and reset the valve timing but had run out of time before we tried to fire her up. When eventually I did try it was still to get a fat nothing. Much, much later, March 2006, when I returned to the engine it was to employ the services of a friend who has a classic car workshop specializing in Aston Martin who found that the firing order was completely wrong. It had been set according to the workshop manual we had for the car, which lied, incredible! Back to fist principles and reset and she fired immediately. What a relief and more to the point absolute music to the ears. With the engine starting on the button all the stops were pulled out to get her finished for the centenary celebrations in Turin 1st September 2006.

John Pitney made a couple more visits to fettle the panels and late July the car was taken to Ross Keeling’s paint shop in Ilford. Ross is Les’ (Lambda owner) son and Arthur’s (owner of the Dilambda with the Carlton DHC body referred to earlier) grandson. Nice touch this! Ross, knowing my desire to get the car to Turin 1st September completed the job in record time and to a very high standard. Back home with it and barely a month to go, my son Jonathan and I worked day and night to complete the assembly.

Months earlier I had purchased an industrial leather sewing machine, six full leather skins in dark brown bought for a bargain £150 off Ebay, a copy of the Haynes Manual ‘Classic Car Interior Restoration’ obtained, the dining room converted into a trim shop and Margaret charged with the job of trimming the whole car. The finished job gives the impression that the upholstery is original and has been lovingly cared for for years, a glowing testament to her skill and dedication, for the work was not without its difficulties.  

Ten days to go and I get to drive the Dilambda for the first time, a visit to the MOT tester. Absolute euphoria, an unforgettable experience, not least as I had not appreciated that the gearbox layout was the reverse of normal and I was trying to start off in third instead of first gear! Got that sorted out and with the pass certificate and an ear to ear grin I was bowling home when what appeared to be a little man with a large hammer was trying to exit the crankcase. A big end had run – utter despair.  

The Turin dream lay in tatters, I was too exhausted to overcome yet another set back at the eleventh hour. Well, for a couple of hours at least! Tracked down a workshop in Croydon who would re-metal the bearing next day while I waited, so set about stripping the engine – why is everything so huge and heavy on a Dilambda? Two days later with Jonathan’s help we are running again BUT, no oil pressure. Eventually find that the oil pump had been poorly assembled before we bought the car and was only making intermittent contact with its drive.

Just one week to go with a myriad of ‘final’ jobs to complete, the decision is taken not to attempt to drive the car to Italy, not least because there is just not enough time to get the hood fitted. A trailer is hired and a suitable tow truck borrowed from a friend. Our progress is being closely monitored by Tony and Shelley Seiler in South Africa who are coming over to join us for the trip. They arrive the day before we are due to leave just as I drive the Dilambda home from the workshop. Exhausted, my sanity is again in serious doubt as I have invited Morris Parry and his group of eight for an evening meal before we set off together in the morning for Italy! However, it made for a great start to the Turin adventure.

The journey to Italy is a story in its own right so full of incident was it but we made it and the feeling of elation driving the Dilambda into the Ar-sen-ale will never leave me. However, the euphoria was short lived, as on the very next morning the gear selector fork broke. Club President Paul Baker came to my rescue directing me to friends of his who operate a small backstreet specialist workshop. I spent the next three days with them (they speaking no English and I no Italian) whilst they moved heaven and earth to repair the gearbox and get me and the car to the final parade on the Saturday. I’ll save the full story for another time, suffice it to say, that I owe Domenico, Giovani and Elio of Fasano and Andreo Gianetti  of L M Gianetti Engineering an eternal debt of gratitude.  

The Centenary parade through Turin and the display in Piazza San Carlos was the culmination of an exceptional three year journey, the icing on the cake being the award of one of the fifty rosettes which allowed us to be presented on the podium during the afternoon. Super too that Jonathan and his wife were able to fly out to deservedly share the glory.

Back home and although still shaking the car down, we made the AGM at Gaydon and received the ‘Oh Dear Trophy’ being deemed to have made the best recovery from a mechanical disaster, a fitting conclusion to our trials and tribulations.

It would be unforgivable of me not to acknowledge the unstinting support Margaret has given me. I have been at best, difficult and at worse, downright unreasonable in my obsession with ERF 294, it’s every bit as much her Dilambda as mine. John Pitney is deserving of grateful thanks for the bodywork and Ross Keeling for the painting, son, Jonathan, for the many, many hours of work put in and his wife Andrea for indulging her profligate father-in-law by allowing her husband the time away from home and family. My thanks too, to my friends in the LMC who encouraged and helped in so many ways,  with special mention for Will How, Bob Seaney, Gerald Batt, Paul Atkinson, Morris Parry, Brian Hilton and not least, Paul Baker.  Keith Bowley of Ashton Keynes Vintage Restoration Ltd. generously threw me a lifeline when the new tyres that had been on order from Michelin failed to materialize by loaning me the set from the ‘Steady’ Barker Dilambda he is restoring. Many, many thanks Keith, can’t wait to see the finished Barker Dilambda. Tony and Shelley Seiler were supportive throughout, better traveling companions you could not find and if I’ve forgotten anyone please, please forgive me.

The future? Lots still to complete and I intend to use her as much as possible, including the Sliding Pillar Rally and conveying one of the teams in the Grande Parade des Pilotes at the Le Mans 24hr race. Would I do it again? Probably not but never say never!

I must say that it was a great lift to click 'recent unread messages' and see Modestine pop up!!!

Then to read the saga of her restoration to the road and the crazy trip to the centenary celebrations!!! That is as mad as James Parry and his Augusta doing it!!

Thank you Robin and I hope all is presently well with the Lancias.

                                   Andy

Just spent the afternoon, at intervals, going through the full thread, wow!

If I wore a hat Robin, I'd take it off to you, your son, the family Parry and all the Lancisti who provided support, knowledge and succour during your trials and tribulations with Modestine!

Respect to one and all.

P

Robin,
At the time you gave me a preview of Modestine in the early stages of the bodywork, I must admit I thought you were bonkers, but so dedicated, then to see her for the first time in all her glory with the body painted in Turin, it was fair to say I was stunned at what you, ( and Margaret) had achieved, Since then I've followed all your trials and tribulations, and often wondered how you found the strength (or the funds!) to go on at times! while your award and place on the podium was well deserved.
I look forward to further episodes :) :)
I did however note that your story has fallen foul of the word police that stalks our written words for indecencies, and see that the lovely military building in Turin known as the Ar sen ale has been altered into the bottomnale ::)
Brian 8)

Hi Brian,

Thanks for pointing out the word alteration - unbelievable! ::)

Robin.

Hi Robin,

I really enjoyed reading your epic restoration of Modestine, definitely a labour of love & a credit to you. Do you have any pictures of the chassis, bodywork & interior as they were being restored?

Cheers, Rob

Hi Rob,

I have a massive collection of photographs of the retoration, I'll trawl through them and post some soon.

Robin.

That will be great Robin  ;). I do enjoy seeing a good restoration coming together!

Cheers, Rob

Back in 2003 when Robin and myself both owned Fulvia 2c Berlina's, I was in Robin's neck of the wood after dropping my Daughter and her Husband off at Gatwick airport, and as previously arranged I called in, I knew about 'Modestine' but this was my first encounter with this lovely Lancia, in retrospect I do wonder if at the time if Robin really knew what he'd let himself ( and Margaret) in for :o

I was astonished to see her size and the amount of work to do.
As many will know the body wasn't her original body, and that Robin had hunted far and wide to find a suitable body to cloth her in, but even then needed it needed a lot of work and alteration.
Fast forward to 3 years later in Turin and the 100th Anniversary of Lancia, and it was amazing to see how much they had achieved.
I spoke to Robin the other day who gave me permission to post these photos, these had been taken in 2003 on the understanding that they would stay secret, until Robin chose to show her to everyone.
Ploughing through many Lancia photos the other day I came across them, and this is the first time they have ever been shown to anyone other than Robin and Margaret.
Brian
8227 8)

Continued

Inspiring.  Was thinking of Robin doing that and the HF just yesterday.  Its the will and the focus that gets projects done...

Many thanks for the memories Brian, I went down to the workshop today just to remind myself of where we are now.
Was it all worth it? Certainly was!

Robin.

Modestine has been getting progressively more incontinent of late (old and incontinent - you know what I mean!) which coupled with a persistent rattle at tick over has demanded investigation. So, out with the engine and onto the smart new rotating engine stand Jonathan provided. A mere two hour job contrasting mightily with the two day job the first time we did it. There ain't no substitute for experience.

Those who have followed my restoration sagas will know that I love a dead line. July this year this time for the wedding of the previous owners daughter. No pressure there then! Although, if as an over 70 year old Boris confines me to my home for four months it should be a doddle!

Watch this space.

Robin

I'd forgotten what a big old brick that engine is.

Two hours is impressive.

Progress.

Robin

Sorry to hear of your difficulties, but delighted to see more pics of a Dilambda engine apart. Please keep posting!

Must be nice to have more than six head studs!

How heavy is that head ??

It looks like a huge unit - all iron ?

John,  20 head studs  :)

Simon, Yes, all cast Iron except the sump and that's very heavy. No idea what the head weighs  - I can just about lift it with the rockers removed. Camshaft remains bolted to the block when the head is removed which is useful when changing the head gasket as the timing gear remains undisturbed.

More progress this week, in fact just about down to the bare block.

Lot of gunge in the water jacket.

It isn't possible to remove the flywheel because it won't pass rearwards out of the engine cross member which in turn can't be separated from the engine until crank and flywheel are clear of the block! Took a long time to figure that out the first time I removed the engine from the car. It's also more than I can lift these days hence the use of the hoist.

Nothing untoward discovered yet, everything looks to be in excellent order. So, where's the rattle coming from?

I do need to decide that having got this far whether I go the whole hog and have a rebore and a set of new pistons made. Oh, and the timing chain sprockets are quite badly worn.

But first the the big degrease!

Robin.

And I thought cleaning an Aurelia block was work!  I hope the table is up to the job!

Degreasing - my favourite job !

What size are the pistons ? (Diametre of bore)

It even looks heavy.

Could the rattle be timing chain flutter or something related as worn? Where do you get new sprockets.?

Simon.  Bore diameter is 79.37mm. Some years ago a gudgeon pin circlip escaped and came up through the top of a piston! A new piston was required and Morris Parry researched his files and came up with a near match from a 1961 1.6 Ford Orion diesel engine! I picked up a set of four O/E on Ebay and with minimal modification they fitted and have been performing OK since. If I'm honest I would like to have the engined re-bored and a new set of pistons made. Eight of them and  expensive I guess.

Tim. Timing chain and sprocket wear is a real possibility and again as with the pistons if money were no object I would have new chains and sprockets. Dread to think what that would cost! The go to people are R M Fowler Ltd
http://www.chain-drive.co.uk/

Decisions, decisions.

Robin.

You might be lucky enough to find some of the right size yet.   Do be sure that they weigh the same as the originals of course, narrow Vengines are notoriously difficult to balance (see Lambda technical information thread).

One place to ask.  Any others?

https://www.fwthornton.co.uk/pistons

Thanks David and David.

Robin.