Lancia Motor Club

I've searched through the last couple of years of posts and no-one seems to have asked, so has enyone fitted electronic ignition to a Fulvia?

If so, has it made a difference? I'm looking at the 123 system advertised by Omicron but £300 plus this and that plus fitting is no small outlay, especially if it doesn't improve starting which is my major niggle.

Is there a cheaper solution? Electronic ignition is banned in historic racing, but back in the day I was able to source some high-quality replacement distributor parts, coil and HT leads which made all the difference.

Interested to hear people's experiences and recommendations.

I would recommend the 123 distributor, fit and forget, there are quite a few fitted successfully to Fulvias in the South East with various engines sizes.

in the HSCC I think Lumenition was permitted. I am not saying it is better than 123. Points that were available, I found, had a lot of problems after some prolonged high rpm use and when competing I had problems with misfires due to them. Perhaps they were of poor quality.

Thanks for the speedy reply chaps. Maybe 123 is the way to go then? Better start saving...

Jai, thanks for reminding me re the HSCC, seems like a lifetime ago. If I'm digging out old pics, I'll see if I still have the one Charlie Wooding took of all our cars.

I didn't specify but I meant electronic ignition was banned in FIA App K - I finally asked Doug Smith for the same kit Tom used on his MG and it worked a treat.

I fitted 123 last year to my S3. I didn’t really need it, but it does seem to give a better tickover.

An easy installation, but go for the top entry distributor as I was told by Huib that it’s less tricky to fit than the side entry one, even though it looks better IMO. A Bosch Red coil and some decent HT leads finish it off well.

That answers that, thanks very much gents. Will report back once I've upgraded.

In the meantime will get a decent set of HT leads, a new coil, and give the inside of the cap a good clean.

I run Luminition on my Fulvias. I seem to remember the Lada distributor chopper set fitted the 1600 distributor, but maybe the 1300 has its own part number. It retains the mechanical advance so that needs to be in good order I run the cheap Lucas Sports coils. I have not had any issues with over 15 years and around 30000 miles between two cars.

For what it's worth my experience is similar to Tim's i.e. Lumenition system fitted many many years ago has been faultless.

The 123 distributor does not come with a drive gear so you need a spare if you want to keep the old distributor intact.

Sean

Now you mention it I had Lumenition on a few of my old race cars. Little grey box on the inner wing, much less intrusive than a whole new distributor system.

Also need to save up though so thinking sensible upgrades to help with cold-starting are an electric fuel pump, new plugs and new leads.

I can keep all of them if I go to Lumenition at a later date so it's not money wasted.

Depends on how much money you want to spend!
For years, I've run a simple system that only uses the points as a trigger.
I have no complaints and has always been very reliable.
Another bonus is, with the flick of a  switch, I'm back to points if required.
I have also had an electric priming pump fitted for about 15 years.
Brian
8227 8)

If you've not got money to burn and are after sensible upgrades then electric fuel pump and points seem popular choices.

I've opted for an electric fuel pump but only in terms of priming the carbs for cold starts. This was inspired from an article by Andrea Nistri many years ago in the club magazine and has certainly stopped me grimacing at the alternative of churning the engine over to get fuel from the tank to the carbs with the mechanical pump. Once primed however then it's normal starting where the standard mech pump does the business.

The choice of Lumenition was just general hassle with points. The last straw was, early on in my ownership, taking my car to a marque expert for a service who changed the points but stripped the holding screw leading to an alarming breakdown 20 minutes down the road whilst on a motorway with some seriously erratic timing as the points jumped loose. After fitting the Lumenition system myself a long time ago this has been super reliable; no problems at all.

I have run an Historic Formula Junior single seater race car for 3 years ( Champion 2021& 22) with no misfires whatsoever. Bosch High Performance Blue Coil, Swiftune Condenser (never had one fail in 10 years) and Lucas points from Martin Jay ( distributor Doctor). Electronic ignition not allowed in our Class, buy not needed anyway. Historic Grand Prix cars in certain classes  aren`t allowed it either and again, set up properly with Swiftune condensers not usually any problems. If there were to be any problems, then it`s easier to replace points etc than having to carry a spare distributor fitted with an electronic system, and having to reset ignition timing etc by the roadside, IMHO.

Congratulations on the back-to-back championships, I take it that's with the HSCC? It's a few years since I was out with them.

I wasn't aware Nick had expanded into spares, he built my A-series in the early 2000s and it was a little gem. Condensers are too often overlooked so good to know where to get one which won't break down.

Looks like electric fuel pump, plugs and leads to start with, plus potentially coil and condenser for reliability.

Having to churn the engine for ages is a common issue. I’ve never really got to the bottom of why it occurs, but when I had  a Fulvia S2 back in the 70s it simply never occurred.

Ther are cheaper ways of priming the system after the car hasn’t been started for a number of days. Cheapest and easiest of all is to use a rubber priming bulb as used by outboard boat engines. Alternatively a cheap fuel pump off eBay for about £12 should work fine just for priming rather than spending £100 on a Facet pump like I did! Once the system is primed for a a few seconds, switch it off and just turn the key. The standard mechanical pump should then do the job perfectly. If you go all electric for pumping fuel you will probably need to buy a pressure regulator, which adds to the cost.

Anyway, that’s my experience for what it’s worth.

Sitting carbs drain out their fuel. Not sure why - they could simply drain from sitting, but suspect its from heat after running that percolates the fuel (this was an issue in Nardi-equipped Aurelias). S.2 Fulvia had a return line (running to the gas tank) that bled off extra gas (when under  pressure while resting) and effectively put an end to this. This return line was also common with other Italian cars at time, introduced c. 1970 or so.

So the churning is using the mech'l pump to get them full of gas again.
An electric pump for start up is effective - have on an Aurelia to ease the initial starting time and load on starter motor. The Appia doesn't have one, and drains its gas, and takes a while to start.
 

My 2c has always needed to be primed, even after just being started without the engine having got hot, before shutting off again.
Must be a fuel fairy, as series 1's don't have a fuel return!
Most priming pumps I've seen have the priming pump under the bonnet, I wonder is this for ease of fitting, or another reason?
I asked my garage to fit one years ago, and they fitted it close to the fuel tank at the rear, is there any good reason for choosing one position over the other?
Brian
8227 8)

  Are some pumps 'pushers' and others 'pullers'?
  I use an oil pressure / fuel pump cut off switch which gives confidence regarding not leaving the pump on in error along with a sprung return switch.
  In the interests of simplicity I like the priming bulb idea.

  Richard

While I am not disputing the usefulness of electronic ignition, I don't see how it can improve starting from cold when the petrol had been drained away from the carbs after prolonged standing.
BTW, for normal road driving, and with fitted quality points (e.g. Marelli, not cheap clones) carefully set up with a dwell angle meter, and a good condenser, our experience is that points remain very efficient for far more than 10K kms.

The Facet type pump is specified as a pusher but I have found they work well under the bonnet (sucking). I have fitted many to cars and never a problem. For priming all you really need is the “solid state” type. They eve deliver enough fuel to be used as backup if the mech pump lets you down.

Regarding bulb type pumps these are fine for a diesel but I would worry that they could become an incendiary device with Ethanol based fuel.

I don’t think that a modern rubber priming bulb would mind ethanol. They’re widely used on outboards in hostile environments in every country in the world and if there was a problem I’m sure the manufacturers would have sorted it a long time ago.

I long ago fitted a Facet pump in the back together with a pressure regulator and filter and dispensed with the mechanical pump altogether.    Done much the same in the Aprilia and the 2CV too.

Ian also did the Spa 6hrs, before it became a GT40 one make race.

Facet fuel pump installed plus new plugs and leads, garagista tells me it starts no problem.

However, when the engine gets up to temperature it sounds 'rough', he suspects it's the timing chain.

I'll see it this weekend, meanwhile are kits available and how big a job is it to replace the chain?  ???

quite depends on whether the tensioner pad needs changing. Are the tappets adjusted correctly? When hot they may be too tight…..

Thanks for the heads-up, Tim - Mr Laver suggested the tensioner, if we can narrow it down futher so much the better.

The garage deals in Alfas and is used to changing the timing chain on even relatively new cars, whereas I gather Fulvia chains are good for up to 200/- km.

Maybe a case of a man with a hammer seeing everything as a nail?

Might be worth looking at the inlet manifold. The thick rubber anti vibration sandwich does deteriorate over many years and allows air to be drawn in. Doesn’t really matter that much once you get going, but can affect tickover.
If there’s a problem it should be clear to the naked eye.

That fault leads to a raised 2000+ rpm tickover………

It is unlikely that a worn chain will give you rough running as described. Easy to check it with a static timing light if the advance data are different for cylinders 1 and 4. Very unusual that tensioners wear out unless the car has done intergalactic mileage. It is quite normal that the tensioner pad develops grooves even at low mileage. Replacing the timing chain of a Fulvia is not a trivial job and needs detailed experience. For replacing the tensioner the water pump must come out. I would explore more carefully various components of the fuel system as indicated by earlier comments. Good luck, Andrea

Quick update on the berlina - new fuel pump, plugs and leads fitted and she starts first time, every time.

Delighted, and thank you for all the useful tips and suggestions. Looking forward to a few runs out locally now.

Having collected the car I got a second opinion on the engine noise and the first suggestion was to check the valve clearances. With the cam cover off the chain can then be inspected in situ.

To my untrained ear it sounds no different to normal, and it drives no differently, but I will limit myself to short trips until I can get it into the 'new' workshop.

I have a couple of Mobelec Max transistor ignition modules. One is new and unused whilst the other appears to have had minimal use. They were bought some years ago for use on Fulvias. From what I remember they use the original points but take the load off them so they last longer. Also one gets a bigger spark so points gaps can be opened.
The modules which are exactly the same have a 3 way switch on the outside. Position 1 is Transistor ignition on, Position 2 is 'off' - a crude immobiliser and Position 3 is normal as in  'back to points' from memory
Because I cant give any guarantee for the 2nd one it comes foc with the first one which itself doesnt have fitting instructions although they will be available on the Internet.
Any reasonable offer considered..
Chris