Lancia Motor Club
Model Technical and Interest => Flaminia => Topic started by: lancianut666 on 11 October, 2024, 08:00:46 PM
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Hi all
Any one got any advice on reboring the liners in a 2.5 litre block? Remove or not remove?
Clarkey
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The most important thing to do first and foremost, is to check the height of the liner above the block as I would always bore liners in the block. Over a period of time the gasket at the bottom crushes into the aluminium and the liner sinks. If the liners have already sunk, they need taking out, cleaning and new gaskets making before then putting back in and rechecking measurements.
The liners need to be2-3thou above the block before you start reboring.
Somewhere on this forum, around Christmas 2014 there was an article on the building of my 3C Flaminia engine, covering all this. I still have the clamping plate I made which hold the liners into the block. Let me know if you want to borrow it. 07970421633 Dave Gee
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Dave's photo
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I think this is the thread Dave is talking about re engine build.
http://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=7718.msg54903#msg54903
Peter
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Hi all
Big thanks to Dave Gee for putting up with my questions during my delightful day in deepest darkest Leicestershire receiving the words of wisdom on rebuilding the engine as well as getting a loan of some very useful tools.
Clarkey
ps the engine man has the tools and he says he will start the rebore ASAP
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Hi all
Popped in to see the engine man and they had started taking the liners out but the first one they tried was so tight it snapped the threaded bar...To their credit they did not give up and sourced some high tensile threaded bar and will set to again next week. I sense great jets of flame and lots of swearing.
Clarkey
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3 of the 4 liners on my Flavia engine came out fairly simply with a home made pller system like that, one though needed to be pressed out in the bearing press to get it moving. Could it be done with that V6 block? It's amazing how much more force can be generated in a press rather than the stretchy nature of threaded bar, and it's pretty easy to control.
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Hi Kevin
I might suggest it to the engine man. On another point has anyone used the plastic type liner gaskets provided in gasket sets, an opinion is that they might be better made from paper as this is more squashy.
Clarkey
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No one used the new style plastic? liner gaskets?
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I used Copper sheet, can't recall who put me onto it as it's what they use to make liner base gaskets, but it worked well as far as ease of making.
It's available fairly cheap via places like eBay in A4 size sheets in various thickness to suit and can be cut with ease using ordinary scissors.
0.05mm was what I used which when the block seat and liner base was thoroughly cleaned created just the right amount of sitting proud to allow the liners to compress and seal to the head gasket when the heads are bolted down. A very thin smear of blue hylomar was deemed enough as the liner seal just has to keep water out of the crankcase, not like it has to withstand compession pressures like at the top, where you need that offset height in relation to the block heght to make the seal.
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Thanks for the info on the liner seals Kevin. I had a chat with the engine man yesterday and he has used the plastic type seals recently on a Lotus with no problems so will let them get on with it. Found a powder coating company local to me so thought I would see how they perform with some tinware and rocker covers from the Flaminia engine. When I took the parts in the quote was £50 and I thought it would be worth it just to get the steel air filter container tidied up for that.see pictures
Clarkie
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I appreciate the rocker covers should be 'crackle' finish but I don't like it as it holds the dust and oil too easily.Plus it seems to flake of over time.
Clarkie
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I'm a big fan of powder coaters, getting stuff blasted then coated makes for a great job and is way easier than trying to clean off the rust.
If I recall that air filter housing was quite rusty on those vents, would be very time consuming to try and clean up and would probably still have bits that would annoy and give the "should have taken longer" feeling after painting.
Nice to have a bit of bling to inspire 8)
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Hi all
No real progress with the liner removal so as predicted the oxy acetylene torch is coming out to play on Monday. The machine shop tried warming the block up with a big space heater to no avail.
Clarkey
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The engine man has tried the oxy torch to no avail so we will regroup in the New Year and check the block to liner gap and if with in limits will get on with the rebore.
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Word on the street is that the liners are all proud of the block so a full rebore is on the cards. The crank is OK so just needs the oil way plugs taking out and the crank cleaned out, the heads just need a skim (30 minute job apparently) The engine man tells me he will need the new pistons when he has done the rebore as they will leave a couple of thou to hone out to make a nice snug fit for those new pistons...fingers crossed sometime next week I will be ordering some new pistons.
Clarkey
ps My mate Terry wants me to lash out over £800 on a spot welder as he thinks we will be spending all this year welding old Lancias up.
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I have a spot welder cannot remember using it on a Lancia only in the 1970 when working on minis.
On my Lancias I tend to use a good mig welder withe a spot welding function and an oxyacetylene set supplied by
Hobby weld as you only pay for the gas. Hope this helps
Dave
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Thanks for the tips on the welding Dave...Terry will be gutted! On the engine front the pistons have been ordered and the engine man said that it should be all done back end of next week....Hmm...we'll see
Clarkey
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Pistons should be here on Thursday.
Clarkey
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Hi all
Top marks to Cavalitto and DHL as the pistons arrived this morning. Dropped them off at the engine man and he is talking about next Tuesday. Watch this space.
Clarkey
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Another week the engine man tells me....keep watching this space.
Clarkey
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Hi Clarkey,
Can I ask how you managed to place your order with Cavalitto? I did finally get some prices from them but now they are not answering my emails. Has anybody else had this problem or got any advice?
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Just to contribute on Cavallito, I'm currently just ordering a whole host of items for my Aurelia rebuild. Not being an expert I've needed to ask questions and be guided by their advice etc.
It's taken longer than I thought, plus adding in a few extra items and subtracting others, delays it too. Yes, there are delays of a few days or even a week on emails but do persist and they will sort you out!
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I have always found Cavalitto very responsive with quoting as they know me not to be price checking..... Also posting out DHL comes in a couple of days
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Thank you both. Coincidentally they have responded to todays email with the requested proforma and payment details, so all is well.
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As the manager of the Appia Consortium I place a lot of orders with our Italian friends so they are usually pretty prompt in replying with quotes and the service from DHL is very rapid.
Clarkey
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I have always found them to be very efficient and helpful.........but they do not like persistent price checkers.
Chris
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Well, 24 hours later and my order is at DHL east midlands depot awaiting delivery tomorrow!
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They must be reading these posts!
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made a start
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finished off the timing chain cover and will have a go at the oil filter housing.
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I find parts washers a very therapeutic machine to use 8)
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It is like doing the washing up but on a grander scale.
Clarkey
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I have abandoned the oil filter support as I can't get the various connections and the oil thermostat off as my vice is not big enough so I will wait till I can attach it to the block and then loosen them and clean it all out.
Clarkey
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Visited the engine man today and I'm feeling more optimistic that the engine will be back fairly soon. Some progress on the heads as they have been skimmed and pronounced OK and the same amount was skimmed off each one.
Clarkey
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Progress indeed, plus surprises kept to a minimum!
P
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I have abandoned the oil filter support as I can't get the various connections and the oil thermostat off as my vice is not big enough so I will wait till I can attach it to the block and then loosen them and clean it all out.
Clarkey
I found mine surprisingly difficult to dismantle and clean.
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When I dismantled mine from a Fulvia 1.3S with oil cooler connections I had to put it in a vice and use an impact gun. Quite easy then.
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Good tip re the impact gun...
As the starter motor was out Terry and I jumper leaded it to a battery and it burst into life but it seemed a bit slow so it was dismantled ready to have the commutator cleaned up and the brushes checked. There was a starter on one of my spare engines but it was completely corroded which is a shame.
Clarkey
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Hi all
An expensive bundle of parts is on the way from Italy and should be here on the 24th by which time the block should be back. I will go over and see the engine man later in the week.
Clarkey
CAV318 FLAMINIA MAIN BEARINGS SET STD 1
CAV319 CONROD BEARINGS SET STD 1
81101331 OIL PUMP GEARS KIT
82106866 FLEXIBLE HOSE OIL MOTOR
CAV499 CAMSHAFT BEARINGS SET 1
CAV497 SET VALVE TAPPETS 1
CAV222 THRUST WASHERS KIT 1
CRANKSHAFT OILWAY PLUGS
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Engine parts came today so I will drop the crankshaft oilway plugs off at the engine man tomorrow
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Depending on my back I will try and connect the starter up and see if it will spin up from the key...I noticed a relay for starter motor on the wiring diagram I wonder where that is?
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The wiring diagram is a bit unhelpful as to the precise location of components but using it in conjunction with the layout drawing in the parts book seems to help. I'd guess the starter relay is somewhere on the top of the front chassis leg where most of the electricals seem to be.
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I will have a look today when I connect the starter up.
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Hi all
Paid a quick visit to the engine man and to my surprise just inside his workshop on the floor was a freshly rebored V6 Lancia Flaminia engine block. I will pop back tomorrow to pick it up along with all the other parts.
Clarkey
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Back on the stand at last.
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Hi all
Just sorting everything out to start getting this engine back together and then in the car. Managed to get the conrods free from the pistons today.
Clarkey
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Wow very nice to follow the progress!
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Hmmm....sure some posts have gone AWOL on here. Never mind update as follows the crank is with a local engineering shop but they were very dubious about taking the last two crankshaft plugs out so I'm waiting for them to give me a price. The web plugs are out and a new set has arrived from Italy. I have spent a couple of days firstly removing the broken drain brass banjo bolt and then cleaning the block to get it ready to put the crankshaft in when I get it back. Slight hiccup on the two remaining plugs was the fact that the front one was steel and therefore will be harder to get out if a screw remover is used (they always break when I use the so causing even more problems) and the back one needs a bush removing before you can get it out (this one is aluminium so should be straight forward)
I have spent a fair bit of time today going through all the parts boxes (ice cream tubs) making sure I have all the bits to put the engine back together and have re assembled the bottom end (minus the crank) It is starting to look like an engine again. I also got a bit of rattle can work in on the oil filter housing (now red) and two of the engine mounts (now metallic black)
Clarkey
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Gremlins!!! wrong pictures posted but I think they have come from the missing post...
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now for some engine piccies
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Hi all
Slow progress as cleaning the crankcase is a messy job but the combination of brake cleaner and the airline have removed a fair bit of the gunk etc from inside the water jackets. I will try to get the jetwash in as a final blow through after I get the bores and the oilways sealed up. Spent some time yesterday fitting the head studs by running a tap down the threads first. Still lots to do but it is a bit more engine like. Still have to get the front and rear crank plugs out as a local machine shop chickened out, I have a puller now to get the rear bush out but will need some step ladders to get high enough above the crank when it is in the vice to get the drill in for the front plug...fun and games!
Clarkey
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Hi all
Finished the head studs but learned a lesson that the studs for the exhaust manifold sides of the head should be the shorter ones provided by Old Lancia Spares as the head is thinner here. Did some work on the sump as the gauze filter had a small hole in it so soldered it up and put it all back together. Also did some work on the oil filter housing cleaning the old gasket off and cleaning and lubricating the various slidey bits inside. Next job is to clean the oilways out and then we can look at putting the crank back in.
Clarkey
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Hi all
I have had to do some serious gardening this week as I had nearly 100 hedging saplings to get planted as they had spent the last year in pots owing to the wet winter. last year. I have to clean out the oilways in the block so having a spare engine I thought it might be prudent to practise my technique on that before working on the one that has been rebored. I first drilled a pilot hole and tried the technique of hammering a Torx bit in and found that some other splined bits I had in my socket set were better as they had more teeth. As these plugs are not peened over once the splined bit had got a grip the plug was soon out. However the amount of swarf in the oilway was a concern so I will need to refine the technique so the hole drilled in the plug does not go all the way through and the splined bit is of a suitable size as the smaller ones just chew the aluminium of the plug up and are ineffective.
Clarkey
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Had a go at refining the technique by only drilling a shallower hole and going for the biggest splined bit. I marked the drill with tape the depth to go down to.