Lancia Motor Club

Hi all

Just fitted some black carpets to my series 1 coupe and this reminded my of a query I had.

I used to have a series 3 coupe with green carpets, but on taking them out to give them a good clean, the areas that were covered with the chair and the parts that overlapped were black. This car was obviously produced with a black carpet that has with the exposure to the light turned green. My question is, is this theory correct and also did some cars with black interiors also have the option to have green carpets?

I know it’s a silly question but I have always wondered.

Paul

Yes,I once had a S3 with green carpets and black seats and door cards. Bit of a 70s colour ::)

Paul

This sounds familiar, but not to do with carpets!

When I took over my early Fulvia S1 Sport in 1996 it had billiard-table-green baize head lining, which I assumed was original although it did seem unusual. I was going to replace it with similar green cloth until, when stripping out the original, black was revealed where it had not be exposed to light. I then had it done in black wool cloth and I think it’s great

Colin

(This should be my 500th post!)

Colin,
welcome indeed to the "500" ers club"...although I'm not sure a post on "colour shifting carpets" really should be allowed as qualification...

I hope its not like the "5 minute club" from the WW1 pilots (average life expectancy).....
and no, I don't believe black carpets turn green with sunlight, mine are still resolutely black.

I had a black Beta spider once , i left that outside over the winter, and it went brown all over, very quickly. ::)

I don’t think this subject is being treated with respect it deserves.

It is a very important question that needs to be answered for the sake of all carpet fitters everywhere.

Mr fuming from Sutton

Not taken seriously? I have spent literally "minutes" pondering this mystery but given the lack of sunlight hours in the UK i find the basic hypothesis fundamentally flawed. Are you certain the green carpets are not turning black starting in the darkest places first....

Does anyone have an interior colour chart? that should help!

Brian
8227 8)

I was enjoying this thread - until a sensible person turned up  :D  :D  :D

The sensible person was the one that asked the question in the first place, me.

Seriously, dose anyone know if green carpet was an option for the Fulvia?


Paul

I thought most (all) series 3's were green carpetted. I have a colour chart but this only gives interior upholstery and paint colour (yes green was an option for these!).

Looking at the 70 years of Trail blazing DVD which has a lot of the fulvia brochures I cannot see any green carpet in any of the interior shots of the Series 3 one - nor any earlier ones too. All apear to be black apart from one brown one (but could be poor photography).

Tim.

Hi Paul

Sensible answer! My '74 series 3 coupe definately has green (original) carpets  fitted.
Last year I needed a piece for the sill and Ian who posts on here sent me some, so that's two cars at least!

Regards

Steve

s3 fulvia carpets were origionally black but fade green, when you take them out the edges are always black, i've broken up 14 fulvias and all of them the same, i have a very origional 1 lady owner fulvia 3 that spent the last 20 yrs in a garage ........carpet colour dark green almost black, origional photo's of the car from new show they are definatly black, i dont know how they fade so much but they do  ???

They must fade at all the same rate for Steve to be able to match so well.

Seriously James I do believe you!

Anyone know what the best dyeing process (not dying!) is to return them to black?

Tim

Right then >:( As i have my sensible head on , but not for long, 8) my s3 coupe which was Lancia Blue on the outside, most definately had green carpets, with a cream interior, and that car had been rebuilt by an ex Mugen Honda engineer, so i would say he did it right. ??? no disrespect to you James, nice to see you back on.

That’s more like it, discussions getting more interesting.

Blue, Cream and Green, don’t think that is factory, Blue, Cream and Black, that’s more believable.

I think James is right and he has had more experience with Fulvias than us. I don’t think Fulvia coups ever had the option of having green carpets, green is non standard.

People with green carpets have in fact black carpets effected by the light over the years.

Paul

roger i have no doubt your carpets are green, what i'm saying is my car (1 owner from new) had green coloured carpets, however when the car was new they were black  ??? the car had never been to bits or even painted welded anything when i bought it it was 100% origional, its brown with cream interior , almost every coupe i've broken up has had the same awefull green carpets, but as mentioned in this thread earlier when trim such as center console is removed you can clearly see the origional colour "black" i've no idea why it fades and it must have done it from an early stage in the cars life, my mums old s3 coupe was light metalic blue, orange seats and green carpet, they bought it at 4yrs old, the car got written off about 22yrs ago and i scrapped it 3>4 yrs ago, exactly the same green untill removed and all the parts covered over from new are black, its certainly strange and i've never seen this happen on any other car but it does , and it is beyond belief that it always seems to fade to that awefull colour, as for being back on , i'm posting on sensible LANCIA related topics where theres no moaning and whining  ;)

Very strange!!

Same combination on my car Roger, although 'Agnano blue' it has cream interior and green(?) carpets.

I know the covered edges are very dark James but the carpet is soooo... green, even under the seats and right up in the footwells,
areas that wouldn't receive sunlight and the colour in these areas is very even with the rest of the 'exposed' area of carpet.

Anyway I might be strange but I quite like them in this colour......now where did I put my flares!!

Steve

And shades........you'll need shades  8)

talking of carpets... anyone know of a stockist of new carpets for an S3?

In black or green??

after reading what i've just posted it sounds a bit "snotty" wasn't ment to be and i'm not proclaiming to be a fulvia expert i just find it as strange as everyone else and wouldnt believe it unless i'd seen the photo's  ???

I have a series 1 1/2 (ie mostly series 2) Mendoza Blue Cream interior and Black carpets. the car is totally original...... with rubber sill mats (and only 23,000 miles).

The Medoza car Carpets are black black unlike a spare set I have from a series three which are delightful Gales Green! I wonder that it is not a fade from sunlight but an "oxidation" effect which would only explain why trapped (lack of air/oxygen) would not cause a change of colour...

Tim

 No problem James!

Perhaps Tim its not a case of 'oxidation' but another case of Lancia 'innovation'......carpets that change colour with fashion!!!!

Steve

a glimpse of the green carpet appears at www.classics-cabriolets.co.uk in the ad featuring the s3 coupe

I rather liked the green carpets in my car; they went well with the faded orange cloth seats.  I always assumed they were meant to be green but, reading through the above, I do remember them being much darker where the carpet tucked into the cill strips etc.

Neil

I can confirm that on my S2 coupe the original carperts are green. Andrea

After Andrea's previous comment, is it a case of green carpets turning black or black carpets turning green :D

Brian
8227 8)

Thanks all for all your comments.

What I really want to know, was green an option for carpets for the Fulvia Coupe?

If green was not an option from the factory it is safe to say black carpets turn green over time, and green is NOT factory original.

Brians font of all parts lists may be of help but my colourchart does not cover carpeting, nor any sales literature I have seen (quite a lot...)

Tim

Over to Brian

I just hope that i won,t be asked to judge the Fulvia class in the concours at an AGM again, cos i won't have a clue if the carpets are meant to be green or black :o

The TAV (for S2 cars) says:

All interior panels were available in green (seats, door panels, interior panels) except carpets which were only available in:

grey (1900836)
beige (1900837)
blue (1900838)
red (19000839)
dark grey (1826211)

Not sure how that ties in with what Andrea says, but I wouldn't take it as gospel that the TAV is correct.

Thanks Neil,
You saved my Bacon  ::)

Brian
8227 8)

And for S3 cars??

Tim

My own S2 coupe is a late S2 (spring 1973) and presumably had already got the green carpets often fitted to S3. At least in sunny (? :-\) Italy, earlier S2 cars that had black carpets did not spontaneously change into green (an environmental conversion  :)).
I believe that, at a time of great changes and with the Beta range in production, the factory fitted anything it could be found in stock. Andrea

It's a 1976 TAV so I assume it covers both. The TAV doesn't differentiate between S2 and S3 anyway, it just gives a breakpoint for any part based on chassis number.

No Lancia Fulvia Coupe or Zagato ever had the option of green for the carpeting.

Cars that now have green carpets are either original black that have turned green, or retro fitted by the owner believing green was the factory original colour.

Can't believe that so many owners changed their carpets from black to the same colour green?
Mine was definitely green as Steve can confirm the match with his, the only black bits were the rotten bits! The carpet set was also definitely the original set, my car has a massive history with it and it doesn't include a replacement carpet. Plus from the state of the carpet when I removed it, it was 33 years old...for sure!
Still haven't fitted a new set either. Anyone bought a set recently?   

As I have said before, Lancia did NOT have the option for green carpets when new.

All original Lancia Fulvia carpets that are now green were originally black and have turned green over time, some quicker than others, Fact.

All Fulvias that have green carpets retro fitted because the owner thought this was original are wrong.

Owners that have original fitted carpets that have turned green still are original.

What series Fulvia's had carpet as an option? my 1969 1.3 Rallye Coupe And my current Fulvia 2c Berlina came with rubber mats, and from what I can see from my parts list book, so did everything else up to and including series 2's, although it looks like perhap HF's had an option of carpet.

From where was the information obtained about carpets please.
Brian
8227 8)

Hi Brian

Just stating in my experience (4 Fulvias + 1 Fulvia Zagato) and information provided by Neil Cundy, James Parry, Colin Marr etc. etc. all Fulvia owners for many years. James as you know has broken up more Fulvias that I have seen in a lifetime, if he says they were black I am inclined to believe him

After this long thread on green carpets, none have given any proof that green carpets were an option, not one.

The TAV (for S2 cars) says:

All interior panels were available in green (seats, door panels, interior panels) except carpets which were only available in:

grey (1900836)
beige (1900837)
blue (1900838)
red (19000839)
dark grey (1826211)

Thanks for that, Until it came up on here I'd never thought about it, I've seen a number of cars with green carpets over the years, and about 10 years ago help break a series 2, but I can't say that I noticed the black bits!

Thinking about it it probably explains some off the odd interior trim colour combinations.

Brian
8227 8)

I've got a mate who's a carpet fitter. when I see him next, I'll tell him about the mysterious colour changing carpet in my S3.......I know what he'll say  ;D

He’ll say, bloody hell, Italians can’t make a decent carpet without it turning GREEN, surprised they didn't make it turn red and white as well.

(http://i47.tinypic.com/t71tag.jpg)

I have glanced at this correspondence and then last night I  had a eureka moment hence this post.
In early 1974 (?) I bought a brand new Fulvia 3 which had orange cloth seats and door panels and black carpets. That summer I noticed that in bright sunlight the carpets had a green hue to them and this seemed to be all over - not just where they might have faded slightly. It sounds like the carpets of this type continue to go green over time.
This was replaced by a new 1600 Beta Coupe with green cloth interior and black carpets (in 1976) and I remember checking the carpets in bright sunlight  - they remained black for the 3 years that I had the car.

Then came a Monte Carlo, a Gamma Coupe and then an Alfa GTV6 but Jacky had 1st Srs and 2nd Fulvia Sedans and we always had a Fulvia 1600 Sport or Coupe for fun.

this is exactly what happened to my s3 fulvia, no idea why but it just happens  ???

Funny enough the one I helped break that had green carpets, was also with the orange trim ::)

Brian
8227 8)

So is it safe to say that green carpets are not an original fitments to the Lancia Fulvia?

People who are restoring Fulvia’s should be aware of this, have seen so many gorgeous cars restored only to be spoilt with green carpets.

 Come on lads, next thing that you'll be saying that the crinkled finish on your cam covers was smooth when it left the factory!   ;D  ;D

Ian, the crinkled finish is correct for the covers but it was originally green when it came out of the factory and has turned black over time.

It is definite that series 3 fulvias had a predominance of green carpets. I personally have not seen on a series 2 but some may have been retro fitted with dealer stock etc???

I suspect Fiat got a good deal for the run out series 3's and wanted them to look nice with the bright orange velour seating etc!!

Tim

Have to join in since you mentioned the 'striking' combo of orange interior with green carpets. I have such a Fulvia sold to me by Paul! Sad to say that is what attracted me to it! The carpets are evenly green, under seats and dark areas which seems odd for a sunlight/UV effect. Looks great to me though especially with the chocolate brown outside!!...where are my flares.

M

PS had the interior of the Zagato changed to black leather with green carpets to complete the set!

Hi Michael

Pleased you are still enjoying the Fulvia.

The carpets on the Fulvia are definitely faded to green, I should know I have had them out when I was cleaning them, if you look carefully round the edges you will notice it was definitely black in the distant past.

Pleased you went with black seats for the Zagato, shame you went with green carpets as it is not standard, but many people think it was, still looks good.

How is the Zagato coming along, you should be almost finished now?

Paul

I think that there may be some sort of conspiracy going on here  ;)
Am I right in thinking that the TAV doesn't mention green carpet as an option for S2 cars and this could also be the same for S3 as well? If that is the case, where does it mention that there was an option for black?
I think that stating that "its a shame" that another owner has (possibly) the wrong colour carpets is a bit premature, the decision on that surely has to be taken by the club as a whole and not pushed through via a forum, to me the forum is a place for discussion (and a bit if light hearted banter) To say "that's a fact" is too strong a word I feel, I think that it has yet to be proved. I do find it hard to visualize the carpet on my S3 fading all over, with no sign of black left, not even on the edges, under the seats or under the center console. Unless as you say that the carpet has been replaced, personally I don't think so.
But, consider this. What if the original carpets were green and some factory/dealers or owners decided to dye their's black and it is in fact the green coming back to its rightful place? Is it possible that some cars, left the dealers with green, black AND dyed green/black? I hope that's the case, because if so, then we are all correct Yay!
Having said all that, I am prepared to hold my hands up If I'm wrong, admit my sins and be punished severely by the powers that be.
I'm off to the garage, take her out for a blast and then dig out the old carpet from the loft for a thorough inspection, because I'm not so sure now  ???
May the discussion continue  ;D

My third series Fulvia Coupe was a sort of yellow (but described in the log book as green) and had green carpets. I always thought this typically Fiat and ok. Now Im confused.

Yep, I too had a green S3 coupe with green carpets.  ???

Robin.

I think the passage of time is getting some people confused. S2 cars and that includes all Zagatos had black carpets.
S3 (which were only Coupes) had green carpets........ and I am old enough to remember them when the were new (just).
BUT there is a crossover period when you can get S2/S3 hybrids with some parts from one car and some from another and they were like this when new.
These are the main differences:
S2, No headrests, black dials, woodrim (Plastic) steering wheel, (plastic) chrome grille and bonnet scoop, black carpets, vernier cam wheels, no emmisions controls on carbs, chromed Lancia & Fulvia badges on back (script type on earlier cars, block type on later cars) Black round gear Knob with blue shift pattern in top
S3, Headrests, white dials, Black plastic steering wheel, black grille and bonnet scoop, green carpets, Non vernier cam wheels (and Fiat bolts in engine) emmision controls on carbs, block type rear badges with black background, wooden gear knob.
I sure that covers the main things, but I'm bet there are a few other things I have missed.

ade sorry to throw a spanner into this but your theory of green carpets in s3 coupes doesn't fit in with my car, on the origional photo's of the car when it was brand new it clearly had black carpets,..........now theyre green, evenly all over except for areas thet have been trapped ie under the center console, however under the seats and everywhere visable are now green, if you look at the origional s3 brochure's the cars had the loud yellow and orange seats but black carpet, i was always under the impression that they should be green until i bought my 1 owner from new s3 with all its history from new, this proved i was wrong  ::) i dont think its sunlight that fades them and as said on here previously they faded from an early age but no idea why  ???

On the Zagato line, because they were 'bespoke' cars, could you have any colours or were they still chosen from a colour chart for interior and exterior colours?
The green to me always had that Italian querky style. Black with black carpets is so Audi and BMW! With a colour, you hav some conrast looking through the rear hatch and side glass which picks up the seats......I should get out more.

M

Hi Paul, the Fulvia is going great thanks. Using it more as well. The problem is not wanting to get it wet but after the first trip, I don't mind and use it more. This week three times to work! Smelling of petrol though but have replaced the carb linking tube which was hard as rock so hope that will solve it.
The Zagato is at the painters now and down to bare metal. I was hoping to have it bad for Christmas but think it will be after which is a shame. The best bit will be fitting it back up.

Cheers

M

Some of you may remember my green 1973 2000 (Flavia) saloon. When I bought it was Miribelle Beige :-[ (spelling?) with green cord upholstery and green carpets.  I kept them until they got too tatty and replaced with black.

Not sure that this helps the discussion a lot.  :D

Robin.

Just given the Fulvia a wash and chamois and checked out the carpets again. The inside face of the sills covered in green is so fresh and green and even.....sounds like a Christmas song... There seems no evidence of black anywhere, not even nearly. Slightly darker shades of green.

M

This appeared on ebay with defo green carpets! ;D

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Lancia-Fulvia-1-3-S3-1975-LHD-51-000-kms_W0QQitemZ220567740078QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutomobiles_UK?hash=item335adc9eae

Tim

When did a couple of holes in the floor become "Nothing Much", I do wonder just how good the rest of it is with visible scab along the front edge of the bonnet and around the wheelarches, & these are the bits you can see!

Brian
8227 8)

thats the same colour schemes as my s3 was, blue white and green  ::) how about the LE Velocette in the background, i reckon we should give these to the police to use again, save a fortune on road tax ;) mkiv or v cortina nearly 3 grand, whats the punchline? ???

i know its been a while however today i found the origional carpets out of my s3 fulvia and thought this may be of interest so you can clearly see they are green now but were clearly black before, i'm cleaning them and re-dying them to go back as they were "BLACK" before re-fitting

this is off the tunnel... pretty safe to say they should be black

just looked at another carpet set and its exactly the same......only greener!!, if you look closely you can see everywhere thats been trapped from air is black so i think tim was correct on the oxidising theory

James

good luck on dying them black. I tried with a set of green carpets and got brown although everything else the dye touched turned black. Ended up using the now brown carpets as a pattern at my local trimmers to make a black set!!!! BTW my tunnel carpet was not what I would call black where the light/air had been restricted. More a dirty green.......

with regards to dying them i've got another "trick" up my sleave, i wont say about it untill i've tried it propperly but the test area i've done looks very promising, will let you all know if its a succes

Not Cherry Blossom boot polish, now that would give the interior a lovely shine :D

Brian
8227 8)

I think we have now established that Lancia did NOT have the option for green carpets when new.

All original Lancia Fulvia carpets that are now green were originally black and have turned green over time, some quicker than others, Fact.

All Fulvias that have green carpets retro fitted because the owner thought this was original are wrong.

Owners that have original fitted carpets that have turned green still are original, this is called authentic.

All interior panels were available in green (seats, door panels, interior panels) except carpets which were only available in:

grey (1900836)
beige (1900837)
blue (1900838)
red (19000839)
dark grey (1826211)

NOT GREEN.

In your opinion  ;)

Oh no not again  ;D. Time for a poll ?

Steve

Hang on :
>>they were available in grey, beige, blue, red and dark grey<<

so where are the black ones that turned green ??  ;D

Nobody ever got back to me on that one. Anyone?

and also black.