Lancia Motor Club

Apparently the Spanish Aurelia 4th series that was for sale for EUR9,000 on classiccarsforsale.co.uk is on its way to Surrey.  If its headed to an LMC member, many congratulations and I hope that we see the restoration progress on here.  Even without an engine that has to be a bit of a bargain!

Its good to know such things are still in circulation.

David

I agree.  That's why I bought it!

So an LMC member did close the deal to bring this project to the UK, that's me... but I bought it because I'm interested in the car, not the bargain.

When I've got my hands on the thing in a month or so, I'll let you know what's what (and it sounds like there might be a serviceable, original cloth interior under the seat covers; as well as the unrusted body).

In the meantime, if any of you have any lights / bumpers / exterior trim that you can supply for an early 4th series B20 (the car is the 8th 4th series - i.e. the 8th de dion - Aurelia made, early '54).

Oh, and an engine.  I have a 2.5l twin carb engine that Chris Gawne sold me a few years ago which could probably be made to fit, but it's really a berlina engine, and I think (could be incorrect on this) that the mounting points differ.

Best,
William

Congratulations on your purchase. Bargain of the year, I would think.
 If your engine is a 2.5 litre, it must be the correct one for a B20, as the saloon engines were slightly smaller in capacity. Years ago, I fitted a B20 motor into my B12 - and I don't remember any difference in the mounting points. Good luck with getting it all together.
 Regards, John

Well done!!   Fingers crossed for that interior...

David

The engine I have is B12, modified to 2.5l.  I really bought it for my B10, which will soon be ready to receive it, but the arrival of the Spanish car changes the pieces of the puzzle a bit.  I do remember being told that it wouldn't fit a B20, but perhaps that's not the case.

I was speaking to a man recently at the LeMans Classic. He had bought a B20 at Retromobile with a saloon engine fitted, so maybe they will fit with little problems.

Congratulations on a great buy.  I look forward with interest to hearing about the restoration. 

Maybe you could past a few pics I would be delighted to see it. Thanks, David

I tried to load some flickr photos to a post, but without success.  Anyone here know how to do this?

The flickr are protected, for obvious reasons, but you could post a link instead. Just cut & paste the web address at top of your page.

OK, here's a set of photos on flickr.  

http://www.flickr.com/photos/57729964@N00/sets/72157624603079010/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/57729964@N00/sets/72157624603079010/)

I think I've mastered uploading the images as well...

The souped-up GTV next to it, is that a turbo Autodelta one?

Yes it is.  Same owner.  There's a thread on this specific car here
http://www.alfagtv6.com/discus/messages/206/1173.html?1075213307

what a fantastic project!! i'm a little green with envy, keep the thread going would love to see more pics when it arrives

Thanks William, I just wondered. I knew someone over here with one of those Autodelta GTVs and it looked the same

Please do keep us posted on the project.

I recently saw a restored Callaway turbo GTV, a local American varient on the GTV6, with twin turbos done in the 1980's. This one has  a very nicely reworked engine bay, direct fuel injection, etc., and had been fully reworked. The guy claimed 400 hp, and has computer mapping ability for the motor. He said he had a combination of 2.5 liter crank, 3 liter block, 2 cam heads, etc. and that the 2.5 liter crank was balanced independently of the front pulley - so that he could change that (for different belts) without affecting crank balance.

He also said the power steering from the Milano did in fact just bolt right up to the GTV-6, as some of us have long suspected it would. Wish I'd had a camera....

It certainly looks like a good rust free shell, a few questions is the bonnet alloy? but it has a later series center chrome trim? and the wheels look like the correct 4th series ones but they don't have the rolled rims? Looks like it has a Nardi steering wheel but still has the original (better in my view)  column change.
I'm sure Ron Francis could supply most of the missing bits.

I am certainly planning to ask Ron to ransack his stocks.  He's already sorting out a collection of Aprilia bits for me, so I'll have to extend the shopping list.

What a find, well done and good luck with it all. Please do post progress with the restoration, are you starting straightaway, it sounds as though you have a couple of other cars vying for your time !!!!

Whereabouts are you based, my B20 is still in the early stages in Essex.

                                                    Andy

Hi Andy,

I'm not too far away; a Thames crossing and whip clockwise round the M25 to J8 will do it.

Will post a report once I've got the car and been over it properly.  Bound to be a curate's egg, I'm sure...

William

It's on the way... dragged up this morning from long-term underground storage blinking (actually probably not, given the absence of 'eyes') into the light and onto the back of a transporter for the trip over the pyrenees and across France.

I hope the floor of the transporter can take the weight of the tasteless monster overhead.

The question of what wheels are on the car was raised by Sliding_Pillar.  Now that I've got a better photographic view of the front of the car it's clear the front wheels don't match; the off-side has rolled-rims, near-side doesn't.

Generally the car looks as it should (some damage at the front lower sections, but no outward signs of rot - apart from, possibly, a small patch on the near side behind the rear wheel?).  This time next week I should be able to report on its real condition.  Waiting to inspect it in person is a pleasantly nervous sensation.

For once you'd have been pleased to have the car "upstairs" drip a bit of oil.

It must be like Christmas Eve...used to be...

David

I did have a cheaper quote for transport than the one I went with, but that was was 'uncovered'; which wouldn't have been ideal with a paint-less car.  

In particular, I didn't fancy the interior being filled with water for a week.  In fact I'd also rather that 'Thunderbirds' car overhead didn't drop its sump contents into the interior...

I would have thought the transporter has a very high centre of gravity with that lump up top!
Hope it doesn't fall over.

Brian
8227 8)

I am hugely jealous!!!!, looks a cracking car well done

William

Open invitation if you wish to have a look at my 4th Ch3499 that is kept on the Surrey/Berkshire border.

It's an ex-Chris Gawne car that had a lot of work done on it by Peter Harding.

Best of luck and great to have another in the UK.

Adam Tindell

Thanks Adam, I might well do that.  As it happens, your car is closer in chassis number to my 6th Series (3894) than it is to the 'Spanish car'.  I wonder how many changes there were in specification and detail during IV Series production...  With luck, the Spanish car won't have been messed around too much (apart from the careless loss of its lights and external trim that is).

Just spoke to the driver of the truck about drop-off (scheduled for tomorrow am).  

"You do know what state it's in, don't you?!", spoken in incredulous tones; "No-one told me what it was going to be like."

He clearly thinks I'm some sort of imbecile, or perhaps the victim of a terrible scam.  Perhaps he's right.

William

Priceless, when he delivers you can maybe tell him how much you paid for it. Should make for an amusing reaction. The words 'how much??!' comes to mind.....

Peter

Suspense over.  Car in the barn, and a cursory inspection made inside and out, above and below.

As predicted, a mixed bag of pros and cons.  The bad first; missing parts.  As well as the absent engine which I obviously knew about the car is without (in no particular order):
 - Radiator and all cooling system (cow horn etc.)
 - Gearbox!
 - Interior door handles
 - Most switches
 - central panel and mechanism of the tachometer
 - Key (but all 3 locks are present, so a simple job to replace)
 - Bumpers (all)
 - Dynamo / Starter / all engine ancilliaries.
 
I knew - or thought I did - that all the lights and exterior trim was missing, but actually things are not that bad:
 - the Al sill trims are both there and in good condition
 - the Al finishing strips from the top of the two rectangular air intakes on the front of the car are there
 - both headlight bowls
 - body for both front indicators
 - bodies for both fog lights, and one front glass and lens.

Other things to note:
 - the bonnet is Al, with a centre strip.  It is 'factory' but probably not originally from this car?  (According to the seller, the man he bought the car from had 3 1/2 Aurelias.  I can believe it...).
 - The cloth interior, is entirely present under the red/blue vinyl re-trim, but will mainly only be useful as a pattern to a trimmer.
 - It looks as if most of the black ribbed rubber mats are there.

These lists are undoubtedly not comprehensive!

There are lots of fascinating differences to my 6th series... the rollers against the door glass on the inside of the glass to help it run up and down; the central reversing light etc.

Finally the main event... what state is the body really in.  Well it is 95% good news.  It is fabulously unmolested and without corrosion.  The shut-lines of the doors are so even and narrow that it looks more to me like a hand-made early Bertone bodied Giulietta Sprint than anything else I've seen.  Did I read somewhere that Bertone built some of the 4th Series?  Or perhaps B20s were all like this from new, but few have kept their lines as well...  

There is some surface rust on the floorpan.  Clearly water must have sat between the sound-deadening material and the metal at some point; but I don't think the metal is holed or thinned to the point it will need replacing.  I'll see when the car's stripped down, and in any case it's a relatively easy area to repair.

Will post some more photos when I've got them.

Well William, it seems you have  a real winner there. I regret I am not in a position to help with any spares, I have a nearly complete car but no spares at all. I've e mailed Ron Francis to see if he has the few bits that I am missing, everyone seems to think it's the best starting point !!!

With regard to the body, you are so so fortunate, I won't say lucky, you have what you paid for !!!  The bodywork I am doing and that I've seen in other restoration tales is is either extremely slow and time consuming or expensive, or, sometimes, both !!!!

Good luck with getting the parts, you have the foundation for a great car.

Regards,

               Andy

I decided to document the restoration of this car on a blog.  It's easier to do this with a blog publishing platform than a forum like this one (as well as allowing wider access - possibly a mixed blessing), and I'll post here when the blog's updated.

Let me know what you think, suggest what I might change, is it a good idea to publish in this way?, etc.

http://b20no2959.wordpress.com/

Hi William

I am enjoying reading about the progress, nothing like a challenge...

My comment on the Blog is that it is a pain to have to keep going up and down to read each section, personally I prefer the forum format which lists entries chronologically. Maybe there is an option on the Wordpress site as to how they are shown?

Peter

I agree to some extent about the 'most recent at the top' blog layout.  It definitely doesn't work for a forum, which is after all really a conversation between two or more people.  My thinking was that I don't want (need?) just one thread, so an easy way of indexing notes on specific assemblies for my own (and possibly others) future use would be useful.

From a little research I did last night, it does seem that there are ways to make wordpress publish the blog posts in non-reversed chronological order - oldest at the top.  This does make things easier for a new reader, but potentially is a pain for 'followers' who are only interested in the most recent posting.

Hum...

William

A question about wheels if I may.

In an earlier post you mentioned that you have a mix of rolled and non-rolled rims, so are you looking to fit a complete new matching set?

Although I have a complete set of 5 original rolled rims on my 4th, I'm looking to source a newer alternative.  I've tried fitting a set of Tecno's but they require either spacing or filing down of the sliding pillar - both of which I do not want to do.

There is the Borrani Bi-Metal available new but they are the best part of £1,000 a corner!

So if you do come across another option, I'd be very interested in hearing the news.

Best of Luck

Adam

Adam, if you are successful in sourcing wheels please let me know if there are any more available !!!  If you source only sufficient for your car, would you be interested in selling your current set as I may be interested. Presently I have a mixture of wheels and am not sure which are appropriate for the car (4th series) and, more importantly, which are serviceable !!!!!

It seems wheels are an ongoing problem, unless you have funds for a set of new Borranis, which I most definitely don't !!!  Any help in finding a new source would be greatly appreciated, does anyone have any ideas  ???

In the meantime, I'll just push on with the thousand and one tasks that are always necessary in a restoration.

                            Andy

I'm not planning to source a full set of wheels.  There are 3 good rolled-rim wheels on the car, so I reckon I can use the non-rolled one as a spare and thus only need to find one more.  Perhaps the.cern and I should compare what we've got and see if there's two good sets of four matching wheels between us.  I do have some other Aurelia wheels - 5 spare rolled rims B10 wheels, 2 6th series B20 - but none of the 'correct' type for the SIV.

Now that I have a list of the main parts to track down I'm going to take a day off to visit Ron.

I believe Cavalitto has made s. 5/6 wheels from new, and is going to make s. 4 ones next. These are steel wheels, simple type. Cheaper than the Borranis.

I priced the steel wheels from Cavalitto, 1500 Euro a set. I have a good rolled rimmed wheel (with tyre), I could do a swap for your 6th if you are interested.

Enrico at Cavalitto also told me that the center web is reinforced on his wheels, somewhat. While many of us are in denial, there is an issue with web distortion (and runout) in these wheels as they are getting older. I've been able to solve with some careful balancing, and don't like the price any more than the next person. But the newer wheels (if they look the same) might be better way.... assuming funds are there.

There is a photo on the Cavalitto Website.

There is a story about Aurelia wheels that might be worth remembering. The late Harry Manning was once driving a B20 through the city of Guildford when the rolled rim of a front wheel flew off and shed the tyre. Apparently the car mounted the pavement and ended up in a shop doorway. Fortunately, no one was hurt. Harry’s explanation was that the hollow inside of the rolled rim had corroded badly, although there was no sign of deterioration on the outside, and it just gave way. This was probably 40 years ago – what has happened to rolled rims since then I wonder?

It is odd that early Aprilias had rolled rims and the later ones didn’t. Yet Lancia went back to rolled rims for the early Aurelias and then moved on again. I was glad my 6th Series B20 had conventional rims.

Colin

Is there an ability on Wordpress to allow it as an RSS feed?

If there is - it means people can 'subscribe' and get a notification when a new post is made :)

Good site though - really interesting

I'm not sure about all RSS readers, but with Google Reader all you have to do click 'add a subscription' and paste the url of the blog into the box (http://b20no2959.wordpress.com/).  In other words WordPress does allow RSS...

Thanks for the encouraging comment.  There's quite a lot of work done on the car already that I need to photograph and write up...

Great offer Kevin, thanks!  I'll check the condition of the 6th wheels I've got before taking it up though, as I know that one of them is a bit out of true (very hard to balance indeed) and I don't want to mess you around.

Done :)

Look forward to the updates :) :) :)

Please could you reveal the chassis number to add to my Aurelia Register?

Paul Mayo


lancialib@onetel.com

Hello Paul, the clue is in the address of the blog, quoted above... http://b20no2959.wordpress.com/

I responded on the 1st October to an email you sent me (via Geoff Goldberg), letting you know chassis numbers of my cars.  Did you not receive that email? I didn't get an acknowledgement of receipt.

William

Thank you William and apologies.  I did get your email and response pending.

Paul Mayo

http://b20no2959.wordpress.com/2010/10/31/dismantling-underway/ - an update on what I've been doing with the car since it arrived.

With the taking-apart phase rolling along, I now have several boxes full of trim parts, and a stack of moth-eaten seats and trim panels.

It's clear that every single part and assembly on the car is going to have to come apart to be cleaned and woken-up... wherever there was grease, there's now solid gunk.

A daunting task?  Yes and no.  I will really know the car inside-out by the time it's up and running, and that's going to be a fun learning process.

William

Inevitably, it's been a little while since the last update.

Some progress though - a trip to Ron's last week means there is quite a lot of crossing out on the parts page of the blog.
http://b20no2959.wordpress.com/parts-list/ (http://b20no2959.wordpress.com/parts-list/)

And the stripping and dismantling continues to chug along quite satisfactorily.  I'm telling myself the shell might be ready to go to body shop for minor work and paint in about 6 months.  Who knows, I could even be right about the timing, though that would be unusual...

Yesterday I made contact with a possible supplier for the missing horn button.  The exchange we 'enjoyed' is written up here;
http://b20no2959.wordpress.com/2011/02/16/the-people-you-meet/ (http://b20no2959.wordpress.com/2011/02/16/the-people-you-meet/)

Question for you all.  Should I have published that piece (possibly a bit mean-minded and sour)?  Is it entertaining / potentially useful to others / pointless and should be taken down forthwith?

More seriously.  Is anyone here a certified Nardi wheel expert, and know the difference between a type 41 and type 42 wheel?  Has there been a definitive catalogue researched and published?

William, more of this please, fairly brightens up the day, even though frustrating for you no doubt given that he appears to have significant knowledge about the Nardi wheels and cannot/would not be forthcoming in actually helping you. I thought you were very restrained given the provocation.

Peter

Well done William for being so persistent and for 'keeping your cool' !!! An unbelievable attitude and such arrogance !!!

I must  have a close inspection of my wheel which has been pushed to the back of the (huge) heap of things to be restored/repaired/renovated or just generally fettled.

Good luck and please do keep us informed.

                    Andy

PS    I am acutely aware that it is some time since I last up-dated the thread on my car, not due to lack of action on the car but to my inability to make time to sit down at the computer and sort through photos and write of the latest happenings.

William -

Have spent some time on Nardi documentation. To my knowledge, what you are looking for does not exist. There was a book on Nardi and the evolution of the wheels, done about 10 years ago- "Nardi Una Storia Di Automobili e volanti / a story of cars and steering-wheels" by Varisco, but its not the best piece of scholarship. It won't answer your questions in detail.

The recent book on Nardi cars, published by Negri Foundation, is a good book, with lots of information on the evolution of the cars. It is light on the wheels, and very light on Lancia collaboration.

As you know, Nardi was a kind of informal R&D facility for Lancia - and the information, product development and testing was a loose back and forth arrangement. It is hard to track down exactly.
As to which wheel on which car... that's tough to be sure. You are clearly on the right track, and it may well be that you have a later flat wheel (as do I) on your B20. Maybe your "friend" is right, maybe not. Where is he based? If in Italy, he may really have the facts at his fingertips and just writes snarky emails.

One other thing - Nardi made manifold setups (and cams, etc.) for the Aurelia. There were many different setups. One can imagine he had access to some ready-to-hand casting equipment, as I think last count was up to about 7 different manifold types for Aurelias, surprisingly.

If you want more details, let me know. But can't help further on the wheels, don't know anymore on them. 

Geoff

William, I note from your list of missing parts that you need rubber mats and a dynamo. May I suggest that you have a word with Peter Harding. He gets new mats and any rubber parts from Italy (for Aprilia too) and he has done a conversion kit for the Aurelia to change it to an alternator. Ed

Thanks to all for various responses, encouragement etc.

I think that my 'friend' as Geoff has dubbed them is a). a woman, or posing as one, and b). in the USA.  Here's their ebay store; http://myworld.ebay.com/wood-steering-wheels (http://myworld.ebay.com/wood-steering-wheels)  100% positive feedback.  Can't argue with that.

The most frustrating aspect of the experience is the sense that 'wood-steering-wheels' has some real, detailed knowledge, but no inclination to share it.  Mind you, they don't know it all, thinking that a S6 type wheel is right for S4 (can you see my anorak from there?).

I'm due to drop my S6 B20 with Peter Harding in a couple of weeks for MoT and a various small jobs and will pick his brains for Nardi knowledge when I'm there.  I suspect he knows as much or more than anyone else in the UK about this subject.  I know Peter looks after 30+ Aurelias over here, which must be most of the UK 'in-use' population.

In a way it would be dull if a definitive Nardi catalogue raisonné had been done, and by definition less of a mystery tour. I'm a sucker for those. It's just a case of spotting the one-eyed man!

Seven types of manifold...  It should have been no surprise.

As for that Ebay listing: time was I'd have bought a book just for those photos.  Amazing what the internet as done to bring such knowledge closer - but alas not quite close enough - that really would spoil the game - wouldn't it ?   What a character.  She'd fit right into a Scooby Doo episode.  As to the business I can understand why she has so much stock with a sales patter like that.

My vote is to keep the posting. 

David

She obviously missed the Charm School and customer relations classes!
keep posting William.

Brian
8227 8)

She went to charm school. You can't do the inverse without knowing something.

Pretty amazing. I wonder if he/she is vaguely sober. If he/she is American, I hope they are far far away.

William gets points for continued efforts, patience, and a bit of teasing....

..of course you could just go for the factory standard of the black bakelite wheel - but then I'm biased - I think mine is the only 4th series left with one - at least it's distinctive nowadays!!!

You are right Adrian - the black bakelite wheel if in good condition is a thing of beauty and very tactile.
Isnt it a shame that the 'expert' (who obviously has quite a lot of knowledge) is not more user friendly? It would be interesting to exactly know when the wheels started to be stamped 'Nardi' om the reverse and when the signature first appeared etc.
I have a few 1950's 'Nardi' Aurelia steering wheels which are all different and each with its own character although on a long journey I have always felt the need to wear driving gloves as the slim wooden wheels end up making my hands a little sore.
On my B20 Srs 3 racer I have a slightly dished Nardi Alfa wheel fitted which deflects slightly and I am thinking of changing this to a leather Abarth wheel which is the same (largeish) diameter which I lioke but stiffer and thicker ri,,ed.
I have also always been curious as to who the manufacturer was of the steering wheels fitted to the later B20's and Jacky's B24S Convertible. No markings whatsoever on these and they are nice wheels.
I have a couple of large brand new Nardi wheels which are actually quite nice apart from the fcat that the wood varnish is a bit too shiny. To my eyes they dont look right on a 50's car certainly but they look to me to be better made than the modern UK made wheels'
However if your bakelite wheel is cracked and if you cant get an old Nardi wheel or the price of the old wheel is just too high then these modern wheels are better than nothing..
And finally....who made the woodrim 2 spoke wheels as fitted to Jacky's aluminium early Fulvia Sport? Lovely wheels although prone to bending slightly. 

If I could find a nice bakelite (or is it actually some other material, seems to me to be too glossy to be bakelite?) I would be tempted to take that route.  I'm definitely keeping the column change.

I think there is something in the Jonassen book about wheel manufacturers but I'm at an airport and can't look it up  now.

Anyone got a plastic wheel for me?

William - I'm sure you can find a black wheel out there - they were standard on the B12 ( I agree they're not bakelite !) condition might be tricky though...

Chris - it might be worth talking to Rijk Heuff - I know he has restored a lot of wooden wheels as one of his many sidelines - so he may have the practical experience needed....I thought the 5th & 6th series wheels are very attractive - weren't they made by Nardi ? ( but that wheel in the thread with the black insert isn't from the 50's - it looks much later to me......)

Allow me to return to the question of steering wheels. I am fairly sure that you are right in thinking that the wheel you have was supplied from Nardi to the early B20s as a substitute to the standard creme coloured steering wheels. The steering wheel on the second photo is the one supplied as standard to the 5th and 6th series B20s. This is not a Nardi product. It was supplied by Pagliani & Provenzale of Turin. It will fit on the steering column of the earlier series, but the contact ring for the horn does not fit. The shroud covering the steering column does not fit either.
Niels

I've found a nice B12 wheel in Italy (including the horn push, undamaged horn ring etc.) for less than the re-wooding of my Nardi wheel would cost.  Given that I don't know how or when I'll be able to track down a horn button for the Nardi even assuming the rest of it can be restored (which I think it can), I'm going to buy the plastic one and see how I like it.  Which I think I will a lot!

Meanwhile, a wheel like 'my' Nardi pops up on ebay in Holland;
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Lancia-Aurelia-B20-B24-Nardi-steering-wheel-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem19c3adbadaQQitemZ110657125082QQptZVintageQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Lancia-Aurelia-B20-B24-Nardi-steering-wheel-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem19c3adbadaQQitemZ110657125082QQptZVintageQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories)

This one looks exactly the same in construction as mine, but has the E.Nardi. signature on the upper right spoke.  Asking price $2,100!  Without a horn button, and needing the hub re-chroming - which process will require major dismantling and re-constructive surgery.  At that sort of value (or even half of it) I should get my one sorted out and sell it on to pay for something else...

William - I'm sure you'll like your plastic wheel - and wiring it up to make the horn push work will keep you fully engaged with it!

Adrian, your encouragement has the distinctive tone of the voice of experience.  Is there something I should know?

William - no, don't be put off! -It can just be a bit fiddly, keeping the two little springs in the horn ring and the bigger spring in the middle all co-ordinated when it goes back together - and getting the little plunger to keep contact on the brass track on the wheel. I hope I haven't made it sound too bad....take heart, if I can do it..... !!!

Plastic B12 wheel has now arrived.  Condition and completeness much as expected.  My main concern from the photo I had of it was that the plastic might have started to crack up (crumble, oxidise?) in a major way, but fortunately the crusty surface visible in the photo below turned out to dirt, and easily removed with a little soapy water.  The plastic isn’t as midnight-black as it would have been when new, but I’d rather not paint it.  There are a couple of cracks, which could be filled if it mattered to me, but from my point of view the wheel doesn't need (or want) any substantial restoration before it's put to work.  Just need the car to steer it with done then.

I think I might have to look at Adrian's wheel's internal workings (if he'll let me) to figure out how the electrical connections and springs go together.  Does the centre boss operate a high-beam flash?  The B12 instructions are not enlightening on this (two examples below, from instruction book and wikipedia), though from looking at the mechanism (brass plunger with two rubber O rings to insulate) it's clear that the boss is a separate 'switch' to the horn ring...  The Nardi wheel that was on the car is only wired for the horn, so will there be a blanked-off wire for a light flasher somewhere in the steering column? Investigation required.

William - not a problem - but there's only one wire up to the horn button! The main/dip is controlled by the winker lever at the side of the column. Only the centre button operates the horn - the D ring is really only for show.The little springs on the arms of the wheel keep the D ring in place. Good luck! Adrian

And unless you are very fortunate, the winker lever on the steering column which controls the headlamp dip as Adrian will be tired. The last time I tried to find a replacement I failed and consequently had no choice but to bring my existing one back to life.
Maybe they are available now but I have looked at Padova for ther last few years without success.
Chris

The car has its original winker mechanism (missing the lever) though I haven't explored condition yet; and Ron Francis has provided another 're-buildable' complete unit.  Probably they will both be knackered...

So much fun ahead!

Adrian, thanks for info on the wheel.  It seems a bit strange the the 'horn ring' is decorative only, and the user manual clearly shows the ring as operating the horn.  Why engineer the ring to be 'suspended' on springs so it can move, unless that movement can make/break a circuit?

William - have a look at mine - I guess you'll be coming to the Aurelia lunch with camera and note book?!

Not committed yet (to the lunch, that is), but living in hope.  Late notice might mean I'd be stuck at the bar not a table if I do turn up, or out in the car park anoraking about with aforementioned notebook...

When I clicked 'Reply' to make this post, a red warning appeared: "..this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.  Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic".

Point made.  It has been a while since I last posted an update on progress.  Sadly this is partly because there hasn't been a lot of substantial progress.  

However this weekend the car has joined the growing ranks of rotisseried B20s.  Not only that, but it has its own Jim.  Well not exactly its own one, but a 'Jim-share' on Andy's Jim (if I can call him that).  Andy (the.cern) and Jim came visiting to take some measurements from 'the Spanish car' and, with kind permission from Andy, I have secured some of Jim's time to help me work on the car.  The first session was this Saturday, and the discipline of a full working day, two men, has produced some forward motion for the project.

While Jim organised the mounts for the rotisserie after we'd bolted it together, I removed the remaining side window and its trim, headlining, dashboard and a few other bits.  By the end of the day, the car was on its side.  A significantly easier prospect in terms of working access now, so during an hour put in today, Sunday, I was able to do a significant amount of underseal stripping and mechanical dismantling.

Jim and I didn't manage to get the car fully balanced about its central axis of gravity (see Andy's restoration thread), so rotating the car is not a one-man operation at this point,  Some trial and error work on the hight of mounting should sort that out - though the front mounts will need to be extended to give clearance for the front of the grille aperture in order to centralise the tilter's mechanism.

The rotisserie was bought from CJ Autos who seem to be the major supplier in this market.  It cost about £500 plus VAT which seems pretty good value to me.  The thing is is very solid and well specified (wheels / hydraulic rams etc) though the central bar that should unite the front and rear sections wasn't long enough.  Without that piece to stabilise things I'd not want to roll the assembly around too much.  No doubt CJ can provide a suitable one.

All that said, I wouldn't recommend using one of these on a car whose shell needed substantial structural repair.  Picking a car up by its bumpers is a pretty strenuous test of rigidity.  One that I'm glad to say B20*2959 passed without a groan or creak.

With improved access and regular assistance from Jim, I'm hoping the shell with be ready to be painted some time during 2012, but even as I type the date I'm wondering why I bother.  It'll be ready when it's ready.

William, that is a great rotisserie, much more sophisticated than mine.

I'd forgotten how good your shell is, now seeing the underside the comparison with mine is stark. The whole of your floor shell appears to be perfect, what a bonus !!!!!! I think there is a real chance that you will be in the paintshop before me, we will have to wait and see. During this last week I have spent  three or four hours each day tackling the underside with a wire brush in an anglegrinder, what an awful job that is, I wear a mask, earplugs and goggles, even more frightening for the natives than usual, and end up looking disgusting !!!  There is a dirt outline of the mask and my forearms take on a lovely rust orange colour, not unlike a cheap fake tan, but definitely not so alluring !!!! I've now reached the stage where there is no underseal on the body and over threequarters has been taken back to bare metal. Fortunately my workshop appears to be 100% damp free and there is no need to get straight back with the protective coats.

We will have to keep up an exchange on progress, Jim will dish the dirt with great glee I'm sure!!!!  He will enjoy telling you what my latest cock-up has been. I just hope he remains a little discreet on my more stupid antics.

Good luck with it all and hope the rest of the body turns out to be as good as the underside appears.

                                 Andy

Andy,

You're right.  The floorplan 'appears to be perfect'.  Of course it's not quite that and there are perforations - some pin-holes, a couple of bigger ones.  Worse may still lurk behind.

All quite doable with patience and a Jim to hand.  Main thing is that the lines of the metal are all there to replicate when it's required to do so.

There will be hold-ups though.  On Saturday, we found that one of the bumper bolts that had been left in place was there for a reason - it was completely rusted into its 12mm tube.  It was a a horrible job to drill out the approx 15cm long tube.  That took nearly as long as assembling the rotisserie.  Such is old car restoration...

William

I've posted a blog entry about a 'mystery mount' above the windscreen.  Please feel free to pitch-in if you know something I don't...

http://b20no2959.wordpress.com/2011/08/19/the-third-wiper/ (http://b20no2959.wordpress.com/2011/08/19/the-third-wiper/)

To quote Manuel ....... "I know nothing" !!

That is a great photo of Ippocampo's car, but where the heck is the driver ????

I hope to retain the headlining in my car, it looks a big job to replace, but it is filthy and, now the car is on the rotisserie, Jim keeps dropping bits on it !!

I look forward to someone providing the answer to this mystery.

                      Andy

The headlining is quite easy to remove once you know how and that's probably a better option than a) damaging it through other work and b) trying to clean it in situ later on.  So if it's salvagable I'd recommend taking it out.  Also you'll probably find surface rust on the underside of the roof panel that should be treated...

Headlining removal

Once the upper inner trim panels (long ones above the doors with courtesy lights mounted thereon) are out you need to carefully unhook the lining from the row of bendable pins seen in the picture attached, which are on a transverse tube under the front part of the roof.  Once this front part is free, the trick with the metal hoops behind it is to pull them down at the centre of the car to release tension at the sides.  Then wiggle each end of the hoop (which is something like a large unwound clock-spring) to release from its slot and you're done.

(http://b20no2959.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/inside-large.jpg?w=640&h=695)

Ippocampo is having a little mid-corner kip against the A post.  Standard practice for rally drivers of the era.

William, thank you for the info. on headlining removal. I think I will try it once I'm feeling confident and clean, the two do not often coincide !!!!

As for your tube at the top of the windscreen, I've released the front of the headlining on mine and can feel nothing and have absolutely no idea why it might be there.

I trust Ippocampo completed his kip in time to straighten up on coming out of the corner.

                                 Andy

Brief update.  Jim is working his way round the car. He started with the reversing light (centre of back) and thence anti-clockwise (clockwise when the car's the right way up).  He's now reached the front of the car.

Most of the lhs sill was fine to be left, but Jim had to let-in a repair section about 18 inches long.  I'm glad that the original contours have survived as reference to the correct 'factory' profile.

Biggest hole in the body was on the side now repaired, but there's quite a lot of work to be done on the front of the car straightening out old dents and scrapes, so we're not half done yet with the bodywork; perhaps 40%.

Jim's time on the project to date: 4 days.  

I wrote a blog post on paint and colour; http://b20no2959.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/colour-and-paint/ (http://b20no2959.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/colour-and-paint/).

Here are a couple of pic's of Jim doing what he does.

Looks pretty good under there!

Brian
8227 8)

William, am following your Iberian babies progression in light of my own Iberian offering being restored next year!

Not a wonderful B20 but a run of the mill B12.....have you many other photos you didn't post up that you can attach at some stage onto emails?

Many thanks,


P

No such thing as a run of the mill Aurelia!

Yes, lots more photos; Jim photographically documents everything he does (and he's doing the work on the.cern's B20 too).

I'm looking forward to more about your B12 when it (finally) arrives.

Ok, thanks for that will get back to you at a later date for some of the photos catalogued by yourselves.

Only run of the mill due to their relative sparsity and low profile compared to the coupes.....I have a lot to learn guys, do bear with me!

Am awaiting another text to say when the next/alleged window of delivery is.....will as I said put up a raft of pics for LMC consumption.

P

Not sure if I'm more jealous of the project or the shed.   Enjoy!!

David

Spring!

Time to move things around in the shed in preparation for work to kick-off in earnest (well, as earnest as other responsibilities allow...).  Hoping to have Jim back soon to finish the B20 shell so it can be painted: it's not impossible that this might happen in 2013.  We'll see.

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-R6sLQpp-Lg4/UYOetlSts4I/AAAAAAAAAEY/v2BSIGXjDRc/w956-h717/2013-04-27+14.10.47.jpg)

Great news.....hows the B10 coming on?

P

Hmmm, B10 is temporarily been forced back in the queue.  Looking forward to getting that moving too :-)

Understandable......but at least its so far on and in a better place than it was.....

P

An update on the slow progress of this project.

Christmas came early to the workshop last Saturday when Santa-alike Tim Burrett arrived in 13FOO with an extra B20 engine - for the 'Spanish Aurelia' - sitting where the front passenger seat should be.

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-YmJJrY6A-wE/Up8A8CWJMDI/AAAAAAAAD7s/nylVh1tbtqk/s640/2013-11-30%252010.20.43.jpg)

Here's Tim bolting the carbs back on the engine that he's built up from a kit of parts kindly supplied by Chris Gawne.

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-pmVXbaPNCF4/Up8BVZ00BGI/AAAAAAAAD70/lTjREF9pfRY/s640/2013-11-30%252010.35.35.jpg)

And here with the car's shell alongside.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-iROqkSpu4M8/Up8B87X0cWI/AAAAAAAAD78/o5PTwTaS-ic/s640/2013-11-30%252010.35.48.jpg)

The shell is nearly ready to go for paint, so I'm hoping that the engine won't have to wait on the ground for too long.

So some progress.

Excellent news William, you are proceeding significantly faster than me!!!!

                                 Andy