Lancia Motor Club

this is my dads project that has officially started today!! we've sorted out all the best panels that we have and made sure that they are all going to fit the shell, the car is getting stripped again tomorrow inc suspension so it can go for blasting either on monday or tuesday, i need the front axle off it for my pickup as its an s2 type and my dad has already rebuilt the correct front axle for it, will keep you posted as it progresses

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Compared to some of the other projects you're doing this looks like a walk in the park! When will it be done, a week on Friday :D

I agree. This looks like it will be far too easy for you sort out, the shell looks to be in very good condition with hardly any corrosion in the usual places.

lol true, we shall see whats left after blasting tho !!, found loads of filler and pop rivits so i'm not too optomistic  ::)

A little more done today, all the panels removed again and myself and matty set to stripping of the remains of the suspension, we put the shell on a trolley 1st and finally loaded it onto the trailer ready for blasting, my dad set about stripping the doors of all their locks and handles etc whilst we sorted the shell out, well all i can say is i wish i had a pound for every pop rivit that i've found today, if i did then i could afford a restored aprilia and wouldnt have to do this 1 !!  :D its looking more like one of our projects everytime i look at it, to be fair all the panels are there and mostly just need welding in however we have discovered a few nasties along the way and i'm sure the blasting will reviel more

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finally.....

That rear axle is a thing to behold. 

David

quick update, the shell was dropped off for blasting on tuesday, recieved a phonecall yesterday out of panic because of the amount of filler there is on the shell  ::) , i told them just to get it all off as i need to know exactly what i have under it all anyway its starting to sound more like "one of my projects!!" so atleast everythings getting back to normal  ;D hopefully it will be back either tomorrow or monday ......... we shall see!

well bad news, had the shell back today see what you think, the work thats been done is that bad we (father and i) are concidering using another shell that we have, its not often i turn my back on a project but whoever did the work on this shell should give up and go back to their day job, i have a saying, if a job is beyond my capabilities then i'll let someone who knows what they are doing do it for me eg i'd never concider building a wall or plastering as i havent a clue, pretty much like whoever has done this body work ....... NOT A CLUE!!!  :o

seen enough???

so come on what do you think??

Looks robust enough to me - but can understand why you'd get the next one off the shelf and try that one...

David

anyway what you can see is only a small portion of the cowboy work done, the only things that are good are most of the roof and the rear valance/boot floor(which has been cut out of another car, look at every photo carefully and you get the impression the guy who repaired it was either a tank or ship builder looking at the amount of rivits,

What's going on in photo 28?

Can you date the repairs?   When and how and who did it?

David

david its no where near robust, its honestly shocking!! i'm glad we had it blasted though as its revieled the true extent of lassoo lashing this cars had  :o

28 is the n/s sill !!! a series of patches and a tonne of filler

James, sorry to see this after the time you've already spent on it, real gruesome, work carried out by an expert bodger, and even more pop rivets.

Brian
8227 8)

I had a Frogeye that had had the popular modification of cutting out the rear deck rectified at some point. It looked fine, but when I restored the car I sanded two bin bags of filler off the shell. I think there was a time when filler was seen as a miracle cure all - tack weld, braize, pop rivet then cover it all up and sand down to a nice finish. You could buy it in paint tins. A friend once took the filler off the cross member of a Mini and found a suitable sized piece of wood wrapped in newspaper!

sadly, i wonder how many of our treasures might reveal similar lurking horrors if they were blasted..there aren't many wartime cars that have not rotted on someones drive at some point and then been quickly refurbished en got running.......

too true, i've seen plenty of bodges in my time but unfortunatly not on this scale, the pictures honestly only show about 50% of the mess thats been done, the rear shelf, rear firewall , rear chassis legs , front bulkhead and front chassis legs are absolutly awefull, even the rear end has been fitted 5mm too low on 1 side and 10mm too high on the opposite side, all of this can be rectified with alot of work however we do have another shell that looks far more origional except for 3 layers of floor, my dad is going to have a good look at it today and measure it all up and i'm going along with his verdict , this is honestly far worse than the appia camioncino that i bought, atleast thats just rotten, its far easier to repair plain rot than undo someone elses mess and then repair it , will let you know the outcome tomorrow, james

That's a horror story ! I cannot see  how you will be able to hang the doors and boot lid straight. The integrity of the shell looks shot. Although I am normally reluctant to suggest this, you ought to try the other shell and write that one off.

I can see your dilemma (money spent etc.) but if you have the option, go for it.

Thanks for posting the pictures !
Nick

I take back what I said earlier. Looks a real mess.

About 20 years ago my brother bought a Frogeye that was an abandoned project. Bodyshell had been done as had the engine. There were bills for £+ for the engine as the previous owner had had it rebuilt to a fast spec by David Vizard, and the 'shell looked good. Anyway after a year or so and Alex was fitting the gearbox, he couldn't get it to fit. A bit of investigation showed the 'shell had been thrown together (I guess the owner had run out of money and patience) around a bent transmission tunnel.

The whole lot had to come to pieces again - it's soul destroying really.

To put the other side of it - without those repairs it would be long gone.

Our everyday Merc 300TE has just had six very visible patches on the sills - it looks like Frankenstein and when I first saw them thought "just a little bit more effort and they would have been flush and hidden".  However when the bill came for everything else and they told me how much the welder had wanted to replace the sills each side I was more than happy with the compromise.

Looking at the values of Dedras and Themas - what does a really good wheel arch repair cost?   You've got to sympathise with the guy who gets the red goop and an aerosol and does his best to smarten it up.

People do what they have to do to keep rolling...

Its perverse - but I look at the extent of the work on that and am full of admiration for the pluck.  Maybe its an "underdog" thing.   Hey ho - one day they'll be someone even crazier (or more desperate) than you who'll take that shell on.

David

Ye gods James, what a mess, I thought I'd seen some dire bodges in my time but that one beats them all !!!!!!  I reckon the guy who did it must have been a plasterer to get any sort of finish on the amount of filler needed to cover that lot !!!

Good luck with the other shell, just cut the good bits (the few good bits) off that one and then do your bit for the recycling industry.

Please do keep us posted,

                              Andy

Its certainly not happy, to be sure. I would stand back, get a price on what it would be to fix what there is. Its cleran enough, and there is about 85% good shell, maybe more. The repairs are terrible, but they are not hard to get at, and to take out. Sure, if you had a good clean shell, this wouldn't be option #1.... but it may not be as bad as you think.

Treat the previous repairs as "tacking strips" to hold the shell together, and now is the time to remove them.....

Maybe....?

I'm also impressed that he/they managed to hide all this from eyes as experianced as yours and your dad's.  Were there cracks and so on?

Perhaps as a challange to you - is now the time to learn how to wheel repair panels?   Starting again you've got to factor in the time, trouble, and money stripping another shell that (who knows...is it possible?) could be worse.

Be a shame to see "one good one from two bad ones" when so many Aprilias have returned to the ground and mechanical parts are still relatively common - and there's few others than you ready willing and able to take something like that on at all...

Last shot to save it - one Aprilia for weddings and the other as a rally car?

David

getting the other shell out tonight to have a quick look  ::) initially doesnt look as good as the other did look however theres no signs of rivits   ;)

 DING DING ROUND 2!!!    got the other shell out last night

and if that fails there's always .................

Come on - don't try kidding us - its ALL of the above.  Just accept that now and make up three sets of sills (etc etc) and another few to sell on and keep the tooling ready for other orders. 

David

Gordon Bennett!  :o

Brian
8227 8)

thats actually the best out the bunch!! very very origional just needs sills and floors, very very straight forward to repair however if this cars done then the others will probably not get done  :-\

After a few months ;) of pondering i decided to bite the bullet and get moving on an aprilia, business has expanded and i've now took next door aswell so perfect for more space for more renovation work in quiet times, i decided to start the green car as it was the most origional and have bare metalled it and started making new inner and outer sills, the engine now turns over on the starter after rebuilding the starter (nice job!!!!) and webber stripped cleaned etc, timing chain tensioner replaced as it was missing , valve and ignition timing done and its trying to start but i think there maybe more problems with the carb, anyway here she is in all her glory  ;D

Another Super Chugga Restoration to keep us all glued to the screen waiting for the next episode then ;D

Brian
8227 8)

Great to see the gloves on and beer bottle out Chugga...:)....the very best of luck with her....but you've done all this before?!


P

yes done this sort of thing many times over just never an aprilia, here's a few more pics

James

You may be just losing the spark when trying to start??

Tim

Tim we checked this out just incase and all seems ok, basically we checked valve + ignition timing, tappet clearances, we had a sticking exhaust valve which is now cured , tappets had to be reset after a bit of churning over , presumably rust on valve seats?? , compression has now come up to a respectable figure again probably down to the valves bedding in, cracking spark at the points and plugs, carb was stripped and cleaned and 2nd choke freed off, accelorater pump is working and spraying fuel in , cleaned comutator up and fitted new brushes to the starter as it turned over very very slowly before hand, cutting along story short with the ignition on 6v and starter on 12v it was trying to fire but still wouldn't quite go, will probably have another go this weekend but i really need to crack on with the panel work as owen is already prepping the roof ( he's catching me up  ::) ) will keep you posted

I forget to mention its not wetting the plugs and cylinders nor plugs smell of fuel which suggests carb to me, if it was ignition then surely it would wet the plugs  ???

James

Am sure you have tried this but have you used a easystart spray on the carb  inlet when cranking? Could just be old petrol or something that needs some help...

Tim

Fresh fuel straight into the carbs float chamber+ easy start and still want go , personally i think its lack of compression or not enough compression maybe? my lads 50cc quad had a similar fault and would only start off a bump , turned out to be insufficient valve cleance dropping the compression just enough to make it impossible to start, the aprilia obviously has rust on the valve seats as the tappets were set then the exhaust valves on 2 cylinders closed up after cranking over and a couple of inlets did to, compression has vastly improved after probably 5mins in total of turning over and i'm just wondering if there is still not quite enough compression to draw fuel through hense no wet plugs and not enough to fire ??? maybe wrong but any suggestions welcome

Crikey easystart thats horrible stuff :o too harsh, try firing wd40 down the carb as being cranked, less harsh :) as an aside, the Australian easistart is called, wait for it............ Start U orphan ;D only the aussies ;)

You say there is a good spark at the plugs, but how have you checked this? Have you checked it with the extension tubes in place?
99% of the time lack of spark is because the tubes are breaking up. Try it with the HT leads direct onto the plugs.

Great to hear you are doing an Aprilia........ but what about the Ardea????

If you are getting a suck from the carb when you put your hand over it then imho there will be enough to draw in fuel. These cars had relitely low compression but not has low as earlier cars that still started. No wet plugs is a bit suprising given what you have said. Wait for the Aprilia explosion in the cam cover as fuel/easystart is going somewhere....

Tim

LMAO  :D :D :D yes its quite a worry really lol , ade will try the ht connectors idea, pretty sure my dad said they were ok but i will check with him later

Ade my dad did check them out of the car with an earth wire (sparked between wire and connector so he says they seem to be fine  ???

Have you got the plug leads in the correct firing order, sounds daft, but I have seen so many non-runner Aprilias with them incorrect.

yes we've both checked seperatly and even checked incase the disributer drive was half a turn out or something daft like that, after chatting with my dad again today we are both convinced its got to be fuel as none seems to be getting to the cylinders, even had the whole inlet manifold off  (NOW THAT WAS A JOB!!!!) incase something was blocking the ports on the head,  i just feel that if it were ignition then surely it would wet the plugs and not start, every time you take the plugs out they are bone dry ,certainly a strange one thats for sure,

A Tin of Start You Bast--d resides on my shelf but it doesn't seem much different to easy start apart from the name:D

Brian
8227 8)

Big Brother watching me :o :o I wrote Start you orphan ??? and later it came out as Start you Orphan :o wots all that about ::) so this is a test, who's watching me? ??? ;)

Right then, want to play games eh >:( Start you Bas***d , translates as, start I was at my parents wedding ;) ::) get out of that Big Brother 8)

It doesn't like what it considers to be swear words but it does throw you when it happens, bottomnal is another one when talking about a place where you store weapons.
Anyone else got any other examples? how about a seperate thread ::)

Brian
8227 8)

More progress from last night, it was only -4c so we thought we'd stay back in the warmth and do a little  ;D

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Good stuff Chugga.....motoring along.....how many hours do you reckon you will spend on body work?


P

Yes it has its own thread here: http://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4354.0 (http://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4354.0)

honestly NO IDEA !!! i think the welding should be finished in 2 weeks or so (evenings and weekends) but we shall see, i'd rather it be to a good standard than rushed,

Ardea is still here and still being worked on , Aprilia is my "break time " car bit like the fulvia was, gives me a bit of a breather on the pickup, i like to play with different projects at any 1 time, feels more of a hobby rather than a chore if you get what i meen, i love working on the pickup but its such a massive project sometimes i just walk away for some time out, i'd rather tackle the aprilia than just do nothing

Assuming you did your timing checks using the markings on the flywheel teeth did you check that the pistons were where they were supposed to be?

I had an occasion once where my car would not start and eventually discovered that the flywheel was 180 degrees out. From your symptoms it sounds as though your timing (valves and ignition possibly) is 90 degrees out!  Hence the exhaust valve is open on the piston down-stroke instead of the inlet and no fuel is getting sucked in!

It isn't normal for all four plug connectors to pack up and even when they do it is usually when they get hot.
Also with the accelerator pump working on the weber some fuel ought to get drawn in if the valve timing was correct.

The marking on the teeth are very faint on my car and I only found it by using a crude (long screwdriver that fitted just the spark plug hole on the cam cover) TDC indicator. Had to go back and forth several times to be sure (now tooth is painted white), and timing static and with strobe at 500rpm is spot on. The advance on an Aprilia is much more instant than a fulvia!!

Tim

hi Ben, yes we checked the timing marks several times to make sure they corresponded to no1 cylinder at tdc which they do, this is why we checked incase the dizzy was half a turn out again just incase, i fully accept what your saying about the plug connectors and the accelorator pump yet it still doesnt explain why the cylinders and plugs are all still dry . myself and father have both checked , double checked and one final check each the ignition timing, firing order , valve timing, tappet clearances, sparks at dizzy and plugs, it is trying to go in a mannor but only if its spun over on 12v to get it going faster (which neither of us are a fan of) i'm sure with more persistance we will get it going, thanks for all the ideas and dont feel that we are dismissing them  we are gratefull for any ideas , j

In the old days we squirted a bit of petrol in the plug holes, stuck 'em in 2nd, and towed 'em round the block a few times!! Cleans up the clutch and the brake drums at the same time!

PS 
       I am sure you know that No 1 cyl on an Aprilia is the second one from the front!

yes realised which was number 1 as its a perculiar cam cover that has a factory made radiator brace and number 1 only is cast into the cam box on number 1 cylinder, the tow idea i great idea and have thought about it myself but i'll have to wait untill its got floors brakes and seats!! :D

got a bit more done this weekend , not as much as i'd like to have done but i had to spend the afternoon wheeldind a chainsaw around today chopping logs ::)

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You certainly know how to move a project on Chugga.......great to see!


P

Is that shrinker/streatcher now a "how did I manage with it" tool?

David

YEP!!!! ;D so handy and well worth the few hundred pounds it cost, anyone doing bodywork i would really recomend buying one of these if you cant buy off the shelf panels, that door repair panel took me about an hour to make which concidering it curves both ways is not bad going

I am most impressed with your industry - it would take me the weekend just to get organised to take a few photos and post them up!

For all I haven't even touched my project in nearly three years I take comfort that - with no other distractions - progress can be quite rapid.  Even at 10pct of Chugga pace stuff CAN get done.

David

even at the pace i work at i cant see all my projects being finished  :D , what drives me up the wall is sitting in the office doing nothing, as soon as i move the phone goes!!! i could have finished that door by now lol

Aint that always the way Chugga......so how many projects are on the go?

Surely with  the apparent ease with which you can do the very difficult body repair work then, making good speed compared to lots of us!


P

hmmm between myself and dad we have 2 augusta belna's to restore 1 saloon & 1 drop head, 3 aprilias inc this one, 6th series b20, appia s2 saloon , ardea pickup and appia pickup, on top of this my dads astura is in need of a few cosmetics , on the road we have 2 augustas a fulvia and appia and the astura , told you we were busy!!!! :D

Oh well......and there was me sweating over a B12...on its lonesome....;)


P

www. chuggasmuseum.com  ;) ;) ;D

Bother, link doesn't work.   ;) ;)

more progress made this afternoon, finished the repairs to the o/s front door, decided not to just fill over the repairs as filler can crack especially with that door being the most used, traditional lead loading was my prefered choice, after i'd finished i made the door fit propperly by filing the new edge to fit the door appature correctly, still needs work but slowly getting there

...and a traditional body file in one of the photos as well...

I'm now starting to worry it will be finished TOO quickly :)

David

lead loading, thats tricky to do :o

Indeed but, a good teacher, plenty of good practice and like most techniques if you have a manual type skill to carry out one difficult activity, then you'll pick that one up too.


P

  its all about temperature control and taking your time, aslong as you tin the surface well the lead will stick, i use a hot airgun , far more controlled than a blow torch and do an area approx 3inches square at a time then keep moving in 1 direction, gradually the panel warms up and suddenly you are speading lead really quickly , vertical leading is alot harder than horizontal but if doing in small areas at a time its fairly straight forward, the best part about it is it doesn't crack or chip like filler can, the flux is corrosive which can be a pain but its also great if the metal your leading is thin or pitted, far more permnament than filler , filler is also like a sponge, if you have a pin hole thats not even visable , moisture will go through it and the filler soaks it up , it then expands into bubbles and A looks a mess B starts off more rot! lead doesnt suffer like this provided you clean the flux off propperly when finished (kettle of boiling water usually sorts it) i used to hate doing it  (i blame lack of patience) however with age patience has come and i actually enjoy lead work these days  ::)

I feel a master class coming on......:)

Am sure you could do a youtube clip CB?

Then again, how many modern repair shops lead load?


P

With age comes a different view of time.  For most teens if it looks good for six months that's just fine, these days I expect "we" want 20 years from a repair.  Maybe when REALLY old it will go back to the quick bodge again?

David

A little more done this weekend, both doors leaded, hug for the last time before all the gaps were set, font and rear qtr panels leaded, bothe inner wings bare metaled, inside the door shut bare metaled, outside then filed by hand then buzzed with the air sander, finally skimmed with fine filler to takee out the imperfections, this week i will be blocking back the filler and making minor repairs to the rear inner wing, hopefully by next week this side will be finished

James you really are stomping along !!!  The trouble is that you are showing up the rest of us !!!!!

Seriously, it is so good to see such progress and doing things the right way, not the expedient way.

Good luck with it all, as Parisien says, a master class is the way forward. is it possible to put a clip on this Forum ??

                         Andy

Thanks for the comment but i'm no "master" to teach the class as such, my dad runs rings around me with "old school" techniques i'm still learning!!!  ::) i dont see much point in cutting corners as it only falls appart at a later date and i dont want to do it all again!! its all a learning curve for me and keep finding new techniques as i get more practice, being a panel beater for 10 yrs or panel fitter really as i dont class myself as skilled as a proper panel beater has given me a head start ith ths kind of work however the skills that i have developed i enjoy and wish i could do more than i'm cappable of now, hopefully with time i'll learn more  ;D

more progress made, rear inner arch on the o/s welded up and into filler, complete o/s blocked back and high spots planished ( this took me nearly a full day!) not because it was bad mostly to use a thin skim of filler rather than having it 5mm thick in places, doors fit perfectly now and open and shut with the typical lancia clunk, girlfriend has gone to visit her brother in spain for a week so plenty of late nights ahead and a long weekend, hopefully starting on the n/s sill tonight with a view to having it all welded up by the end of the weekend,

Ready in time for SPR ;D

Should be somewhere near but as its the augustas 80th there will be a convoy of 2 coming from north wales, we decided that if we both went in augustas we wouldn't hold each other up  :D + they are mine and my dads personal favourites

Well , i seem to have had a productive afternoon/evening, started at 1.30pm this afternoon after work, trial fitted the outer sill, tacked into place then set abot making the ends of the sill and inner wing, most is tacked or welded into place now so hopefully will be finished later on this morning (after i've been to bed!!!!)

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Chugga,
your wearing me out just reading about what you've done ;)

Brian
8227 8)

I only came home because i couldn't feel my toes!! :o , cant wait till the morning to crack on and get this side finished too, start the wings next whilst the floors are being made, i'm having the origional pressings put in so th car looks correct from underneath

I know what you mean but I hope not too many people get to see your Aprilia from underneath .....

The forum should club together and send you your favourite Cuba cigar once a month for the shear effort put in and brilliance of your restoration!


P

Fantastic progress, maybe your GF should go away more often !

This is why i dont complain about her going away !!!, on my lunch break at the moment but i've been at it since 9.30 this morning, not much progress to look at as i've been finishing off where panels were just tacked into place, its now next door again on the ramp and i'm welding up the rear inner sills etc, taking photo's and if enough progress is made i'll post them up later

AS promised more photo's, structural welding almost finished, excess metal trimmed off the sills just floors and bolt on panels next

didn't someone want to know what the standard aprilia exhaust looks like??? think this is origional

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Brilliant !!   Shows what can be done in a short period given focus...

David

well i'm off to Bill Lewis's tonight to pick up my new floors, he (at my request) has made them too big so that i can trim them down and fold the edges over to suite my car, they have the origional type pressings in them , cant wait to see them or even better fit them! job for the weekend  ;)

Hi James, excellent progress, please say 'Hi' to Bill for me, the B20 sills are on, a perfect fit and we're on the doors now !!!!

                        Andy

well i got the floors off bill and what a fantastic job (as usual), i spent the afternoon today joining front and rear floor pans together and trial fitting, this was done with 3 trolley jacks and a pallet truck to hold the floor up into place whilst i marked out where needs joggling and where needed folding, anyway up to now the floor has had its 1st propper trial fit with the edge that meets the sill now folded, i've marked up the other 3 sides for joggling in the morning and hopefully i will have it fitted by tomorrow after noon

.....

Are you ever happier?

David

How does that compare pricewise/timewise with this?
http://www.biondilamierati.com/catalogo/scheda/id/81

No idea as i cant get on the link  ??? what is it??

dont know as i havent retired yet! ;D real answer not really no i enjoy projects more than anything else more than driving them infact! this is why at 9.25pm i'm still in the unit clearing it out as ANOTHER project arrives tomorrow, this time not one of mine its a job i'm doing for someone else, yes its a Lancia! ;D couldn't work on something that didnt interest me as i do that all day

busy busy weekend, set off on saturday at 6.30 am on a 450mile round trip to pick up the replacement shell for the car thats been nailed riveted and tacked together, the car "we" bought is without doubt rough however FAR better than the other, rot is easy to repair bodging is always a nightmare, anyway i met matty/warby at the unit who was dressed in accordance to the wales rugby match,

after puting the shell away at my mum and dads i got my fulvia out of hybernation as there is a show in manchester this weekend that i'm attending with it and the augusta so wee (me and owen ) gave it a valet, i also managed to start on the o/s floor on the current project and aim to get it in this week

ought i'd put some pics up of the fulvia after its valet as i was pleased with the outcome (FOR ONCE!!)

Loving them both CB....excellent........do they have 48 hr days where you live.....cos I don't know how you get time to get all this done!


P

Is that Aprilia now a long wheelbase model - having done the ratchet strap up too tight and streatched it?

If you didn't know what its supposed to look like there's not a lot to copy is there...

Have fun!!

David

Those floors panels look great and appear to fit very well !

By the way, what is the thing on the roof of the new "car" , just above the driver . I remember seeing it the original advert and wondering about it then.

Lastly, if you still want pictures of bootlid mounts and lid stay let me know, but I suspect you have seen enough now for your needs ....

Bon Courage !

Ok 48hr days are normal in wales!!! ;D , david the shell believe it or not is actually really strong, its mostly the floors that are shot however even though the sills are rotten its still structurally strong, the bracket on the roof of the new car GOD KNOWS!!! looks as if it were maybe some sort of sun visor braket or similar cant quite work it out ourselfes, maybe they had a burrett on the roof and a bunsen burner on the scuttle who knows lol, new floors fit really well, they obviously need work to finish them but concidering how much floor i actually gave bill he's done a fantastic job, the floors are not symetrical as the tunnel differs side to side near the bulkhead , very simple to fit and i'm sure bil would make them for anyone on the understanding that they will need to be fitted and not just drop straight into place, it takes me approximatly 2hrs to get one to fit cutting it down , joggling 3 sides and folding the 4th side  , bill has fantastic skills of which i'm hugely envious, i'm going to order another 2 sets for the other 2 cars , bootlid pics are always usefull so any appriciated, well done on your trip and i must say how nice your car looks, its the same colour mine was origionally (and keeping it) so its nice to see what it will look like when its done

no progress has been made since my last post as i've been busy welding up and recomissioning an augusta for a customer, however with the weekend approaching ( i love bank holidays) it looks like i'm going to be busy! intensions are on friday to get the floor in and finished on the aprilia then sat sun mon back on the gussy whilst i have available ramp time to weld up underneath, will put some pictures up when the foors are both in and welded up

still no progress on the aprilia, i've been working on the augusta project for a customer which is taking up all available time , at the moment im working just over 80hrs per week so i can hopefully meet the deadline  :o

 :o :o :o

my idea of heaven  ;D

Do you do any other colour than white ?

Good to see you back !

 :D the aprilia and pickup are in filler, pickup partially primed (shell) and the augusta is in grey prima and hopefully being painted on friday (blue) hears the challenge, the augusta is booked on the sliding pillar rally so really speaking i have 4 weeks to finish it and a couple of weeks testing it before the event  :o

Your idea of heaven .......and this forum regards you as a demi-god.......:)

Brilliant stuff Chugga!


P

Greedy sod, how many Aprilias do you need at one time, I still regret selling mine :(

At the limit of my eyesight but is that an SU carb on the Augusta?

David

Certainly looks like one - and a wise move, too! Regards, John

yes its an su, need to make a linkage up for it, filter housing modified to suit the su's fuel pipe, i will put some pics of the car up as it goes together but didn't think it was fair to put pictures of repairs etc up on here of someone elses car, fingers crossed i will have the axles painted tomorrow evening and lee next door will have the shell painted by friday, this meens that sat sun +mon reasembly begins, the cars not had a full blown resto more a sympathetic recomission similar to my augusta so should come along quickly

 ;D also available in white  ;)

Very pretty - black wings ?

black wings (yet to be done) black solid wheels, never really liked the early cars before but this one has grown on me

Slowly getting there with the gussey, hope to get it running by the end of the week and wings painted begining of next week

Work has comenced on my aprilia, at the moment all  the structural welding is finished, wings bootlid and wheels have been shot blasted and ready for repair, all the inner wings prepped and into prima, floor primered inside and underneath, 3 doors repaired and only minor repairs left to do on n/s front door bottom now, hopefully this will be finished this weekend and the shell will be ready to prep for paint, I have anothe aprilia in for major surgery at the moment and thought i may aswell be working between both cars, i've also done a bit more to "thing" and i'm slowely getting the bodywork sorted on that too, will put some pics of progress up this week if i get time

Great to hear from  you Chugga and to know how works are progressing. Sounds like fun, but how is it that you think that 'I may as well be working between both cars', whereas as we mere mortals, well me at least, seem to struggle with just one !!!!!!!

Looking forward to seeing the photos,

                                  Andy

PS no obvious signs of the Appia problem so today we start the gearbox out process !!!

there you are Andy - working between 2 cars!!,

Tim

Andy technically i'm working between 3 at the moment as when i'm fed up with aprilias i do a bit on the pickup, Tim valid point!!! i think all of us with more than 1 old car end up doing what i do, i'm only putting pictures of my own cars progress up as i dont think its fair to publish pictures of work done to customers vehicles without their concent, the work i'm doing to mine is more or less identical to the other cars needs, i will put more pics up later if i get chance but here's a few for now  :)

todays work, doesnt look much but its quite alot of work making a complete door bottom from scratch and making it fit , also included a couple of pics of boot area and front inner wings just to show progress

more....

finally.....

Very nice !

Do you joggle (?) the door panels before welding the new pieces ? Also how do you prevent panel distortion esp on wide flat panels like the doors ?

ps I got a set of floor panels made up by Bill so thanks for his details !

Hi Simon, glad to hear you got sorted and i promise you wont be dissapointed with their fit, difficult question about joggling, the rear door i didn't the front door i did, reasons being the rear door skin had little distortion and because of the amount of metal that had been removed what was left was very tought and not floppy so tends to stay put, the front skin was a different story as the door had had a hard life and the skin is dented and stretched so a joggled edge is far stiffer to join to and gives less distotion, the trick of minimal distortion is as follows, with both types of joint i use a copper heat sink behind the panel rather like a copper spatular to stop the panel heating up too much and distorting, use very short bursts of weld approx 3mm long every 6 inches appart, let it cool and repeat the process but weld between the 1st set of welds again in short bursts, keep repeating this process untill its seam welded , generally you can feel the heat build up in a panel and should never become too hot to touch, also with a butt weld leave a small air gap between the panels and this again helps with little distortion, i have a set of clamps from frost that space the panels perfectly for butt welding
http://www.frost.co.uk/automotive-welding-tools/intergrip-welding-clamps.html
these work a treat, hope this helps  j

this is like my heat sink, same idea except mine isn't magnetic and has a handle instead, frosts looks better than mine though to be honest
http://www.frost.co.uk/automotive-welding-tools/eastwood-4-inch-magnetic-copper-welding-backer.html

A couple of nice gadgets ! - The heat sink looks really useful because it holds things in place at the same time, very tempted ...

Thanks for the "insider's knowledge"

Now then, favour time again  ::) if you look at the boot floor in my car the spare wheel well is completly missing, in the car i'm restoring the entire boot floor is missing, now i have a pattern for the spare wheel well and have managed to reproduce the well and fit the customers car entire boot floor and wheel well, what i'm after now is some good photo's of the lids that cover the diff and fuel tank sender unit as i have none and intend on making reproductions for these cars as origional as possible so can anyone help, also i'm missing the fuel filler cap (hinged part attatched to boot floor so if anyone has one or more they are willing to part with i'd be gratefull as we have 5 aprilia's a sixth on its way none of which have these items  ::) thanks for any help

Here are some pics of the fuel filler cap on my S1 car, note they hinge from the front on early cars, up to const. no. 4661 I think, then they hinge from the left side. I'll get some pics of the sender unit cover for you soon. If anyone has a spare original petrol tank cap I'd like one!
Noel

The sender unit cover fitted to my car, I think it is original. James if you need any more info let me know, don't suppose you have those dimensions yet?
Noel

I have been looking for a fuel cap cover as well, with no joy. If you decide to reproduce them, let me know, I would be interested in one.

the diff cover is a fairly simple pressing as I'm sure you know and again if you decide to reproduce them, I would be interested in one. Maybe Bill would be up for it ?

On a similar note, I do have spare central bearing cover that goes on the underside, which could be copied if you are missing that as well

Noel / Simon any measurements on either the diff cover or the fuel sender unit cover would be brilliant, i've got the underfloor center coupling cover its just the boot floor covers thats the problem, the customers car has a fuel cap that is alot different to yours and seems origional i will post a picture when i get a moment to find it ! noel i havent forgotton about exhaust measurements for you it was just the center box before the diff that you needed wasn't it??

Noel,
Yes, that is definitely the original fuel sender cover. It took me ages to find one ....  I was using a stainless steel dog dish for a while ....
Nick S

Noel just for you  ;) , best i could do lying on my back i'm afraid but hope it helps

I know I said that I wouldn't put up pics of customers cars but i've been told that I should share this with you , rear of car has been converted to telescopic shocks so boot floor is none standard but all made 100% from scratch, its not finished yet but getting there, also managed to find a diff cover plate as a template but no fuel sender cover, there are also 2 different size holes for the fuel sender on different cars, i have 2 very origional cars with sound boot floors and both have different sized holes as in diameters ??? also included a pic of what appears to be an origional fuel cap (please correct me if i'm wrong but its the only one i've seen)

Is this car a second series? The fuel lid is different to Noel's car and more what I am used to ..... and what I need !

Re. sender cover, I will take the spare wheel out tomorrow and measure the hole over the tank. I wonder how easy it would be to make a mould/template of the cover for you copy ??

I remember converting ''YRV'' to Koni telescopic dampers prior to the Pirelli Marathon a few years ago, they worked very well until the front wheel snapped and the poor car careered down the road on its suspension bottoms - true sliding pillars !

This looks like a neater set up than ours

its a 1st series berlina, i take it then that its got a late fuel cap off a 2nd series car then??? i cant say as this is the only cap i've seen in the flesh as such, and none of my cars have any  :'(

James looking at some other Aprilias I don't think the height of my fuel cap is correct, like the cars you're working on when it was restored it had a completely new boot floor made, but I reckon the lid is correct. The other pics might be more accurate, both 1st series cars. The blue one without the lid is the Stainless Stephen Aprilia that has migrated back to my garage for a bit so Andrew and I can perform some major mechanical fixes!
Noel

A little more done during the week however i'm concentrating on getting "thing" into prima this week as I have 2 more Lancia's arriving this month for work so need the space, if I can get it into prima this week I will take it home untill the new year and start again

more......

James as ever your bodywork has been elevated to level of artistry befitting such greats cars....respect


P

An interesting front left wheel James !!!!  Complete with new tyre it would seem !!!

Brilliant work and great progress as ever.

                    Andy

decided to make my boot floor this morning, pretty easy job and pleased with the end result, bootlids this week  .........CANT WAIT!!!!  ::)

started the bootlid repairs

more

I love the boldness of that boot lid "repair". 

Does it end up within a filler-skim of the shape you want or is there a stage of hammer and dolly work to get it straight again after the welding?  I can remember you saying how you use a backing plate to soak heat up and do a stitch at a time to build it up to avoid concentrations but the extent of the work I can't think it doesn't move a bit.

David

David, i do use the heat sync on that type of epait and work all the way around the panel rather than concentating heat in 1 place, put too much metal on as it will need trimming to shape later on, beat it to shape on the anvil and shrink n stetch edges to take out buckles and distortion around the edges,l'm repairing the inner skin at the moment so will put more pics up as i go on, j

Boot lid looks like a big job too mine is in the same state.

easy if you cut the rot off and split the skins, repair both skins seperatly and spot weld back together, i'm going to fit the hinges to the inner skin 1st and make sure it fits the apperture before welding the 2 skins back together, will put more pics up as i go along, they may be of use to you

what better thing to do on christmass eve than prime the aprilia

Topcoat on Christmas Day?   ;D

.....excuse me....looked at your retort too quickly........and thought.....gee....would never have taken James for a Topcat fan......

;)


P

IF THE MOTHER IN LAW APPEARS  :D

Just having another look at the boot lid you are "repairing" - lovely job as always !

However, do you keep a note of how long everything takes ? It would be interesting to get an idea how much time is spent on a panel like that. Is it the most complicated part of the Aprilia you have done so far ?

Keep at it !

not mine but one im restoring for a club member, got me fired up about getting mine finished again ;D

Like the colour, looks a bit similar to the one featured in the 'Autocar' rebuild a few years ago - FLE ??? - Memory a bit dodgy !

What are the driveshafts ? Are these the modern VW (?) conversions ?

Look forward to seeing more about your own Aprilia ....

camera must be dodgy as it actually NOTHING like the actual colour, its more a turquoise green, yes I think they are vw drive shafts

So are we looking at pictures of yours or is this the club members car?

The grey primered pictures are my car, the blue car is Brian Hands car that we are building at the moment, its just had a full bare metal repaint by us which is firing me up to finish my car.........when I get time!!!!

Hi to all,
I was just plucking up courage to dip my toe into the Aprilia pool and demonstrate my ignorance when James put on pictures of KSU 138.
It was a goer and passed the MOT so I thought to tidy it up. James has done more than a full respray - it has new floors in boot and foot wells, new bootlid, door bottoms and skins, lots of wing work and so on.
Those who know my Flavia will think it the same blue but as James said it is greener in real life so no matching cars in the Hands fleet.

I was going to ask a simple question. What should the interior look like? I do not know if it was an Alperton or later private import - KSU is obviously an age-related no.
I like the blue seats with wavy lines I have seen on a post on this website. Mine are fluted blue leather (rear) and flat brown leather (front).
Ideas please!

Brian

On page 5 of the thread "Aprilia diary", David Wheeler's blue interior is a good example of Alperton series 1 Lusso trim, to my eyes. The semicircular recesses for the window winders are not on every car though. I am not sure if they are an earlier feature. My interior came from a 1939 Alperton car, and does not have them.

Cesare

My door panels are original but the seats are a copy, but a pretty good one of what was there before.

finally!!!!! I drove an aprilia under its own steam today, granted it has no doors no glass no wings etc but even up the road to the mot station to test the brakes on the rollers was a fantastic experience, cant wait to try 3rd and 4th gear ;)

Excellent work James and so glad you enjoyed the driving experience after all that hard work. The first question is, how were the brakes? Second question, was it your Aprilia or a customers that you were driving? Third questions, where are the photographs of this momentous occasion?

Glad it is all going well and hope progress continues apace,

                                                       Andy

brakes were really good, concidering they have just been rebuilt and the car is probably only half its normal weight it was still pulling over 200kg per corner which is madness as the readings should go up as the vehicle becomes heavier, it was brains car , I decided to get that part of the mot out of the way as the car is still stripped and easy to work on in its present state, no photos im afraid as it doesn't look its best as its flatted off for its final painting on sunday, amazed at how different it is too an augusta, just totally different as all these lancias are from each other

As you have nearly finished Brians how about trying your hand at a roof transplant?

Getting it on and off the trailer was an interesting challenge!

I find it quite strange to think that these two cars followed each other down the same production line 76 years ago in Turin,may-be came to the UK on the same ship (or would they have come by road?) and now they are together again in my back yard.

Whatever happened to "TL"?

Tree'd I believe ...

now its been collected I can show you the end result  ;)

Beautiful !

love the coach lines and the boot lid fit looks perfect ..... what did you use for the wing seams (bits between wing and body) ? The ally always rots !

Now , just needs using !

Brians car is a berlina not a lusso so should have a rubber piping not the aluminium so I stuck to origionality and bought the nearest match from woollies , the car travelled 100 miles back to Derby this afternoon and I believe its being used tonight to go to a vscc meeting , knowing Brian it will get regular use, bootlid was a nightmare as I made approximately 80% of it so a lot of hours went into making it fit properly, pleased with the end result

I thought all the seams were ally - you live and learn ....

A work of perfection James, very well done. Am sure he's delighted with all your efforts and great craftsmanship, a real credit to you


P

Shame about the wheels...

...on that van in the background.

The Aprilia looks fantastic - shut lines, the quality of the reflections, every detail.

David

thanks guys, theres still work to be done on it interior and rear bumper mouldings etc however Brian is more than capable of "finishing" the car, overall result was really nice and many of my customers made comments on what a good looking car it was, most of the time spent on it was getting all the panel gaps right, no point having a good paint finish if the basic prep and panel lines aren't up to scratch, enjoyed having it here and was sad to see it go :'( , moved onto a 1600hf now(not mine) so will keep you all posted as it progresses

With any luck that car will soon be back with worn out tyres and some car park dings for you to sort.

David

No dings yet but bumper rubbers (Cavalitto) and wind deflectors done (cheat using perspex) copied from examples loaned by a local enthusiast Michael Elsom who has an Aprilia for restortation but has just bought an Augusta - wise man!! Also has F-Nash.
Not heard yet about quote for interior - was promised in November.......

regrettably I sold the aprilia this morning, I will be finishing it off for its new owner , luckily I have another 1......I meen 2 of my own so I'm not without just further away to having on the road, anyway its going to a good home and I don't need 3!

It means another Aprilia gets restored correctly and back on the road.....well done

P

very philosophical way of looking at it frank but also very true  :)

Agreed: you're not short of cars to drive or restore - better it gets cherished than "archived".

David