Lancia Motor Club

hi all,as i have been researching flaminia info recently i have come across the 'special coupe'featured on page137 in the gold portfolio book.i was wondering if anyone can expand on the article.also in the same book on page 110 there is a different air filter pictured. is this type a production item does anybody know?replies gratefully recieved.best regards richard

if any one can help with this one i would be grateful.what can the reason be when a car starts with a battery then the battery fails and cant take a charge-could it be the charging system/alternator /voltage regulator need attention.best regards richard

Richard, it could just be the battery. It happened to Brian's Fulvia when we set off for goodwood. It seems modern batteries can just die like that. Brian got Fay out of the garage, starting it from cold but when we stopped at the petrol station just round the corner the battery was dead.

Possibly an alternator problem - happened to me in Turin, just enough juice being generated to turn out the warning light but not enough to recharge the battery after a start. Running with lights and wipers killed the battery. We missed the trip to the Mirafiori plant and traipsed around Turin looking for a battery charger. Had a lovely day though and spent every evening after that with the battery in the hotel room on charge until we got home!
Guy

I suspect the Flaminia has an Dynamo as does "Fay", so you find out pretty quick if it isn't charging!
To be fair my battery was about 9 years old so it didn't owe me anything, but until the moment it failed when I went to restart after filling up with petrol, it hadn't missed a beat in the previous 9 years including that morning when starting after  she had been standing for about 2 weeks in the garage, without any drama.

Brian
8227 8)

The battery-killing Flaminia that Richard refers to is currently mine but soon to be his. The symptoms are:

Generator light not extinguishing or dimming when running
There is more than 12v output from the dynamo but not 13 or 14
The regulator appears to be functioning (though values not tested)
Car will start and run on a fresh battery and will even re-start in the same (driveway) session but will be dead next time,even if disconnected immediately after use and re-charged.
Two batteries (neither new but both serviceable and well able to crank the engine indefinitely) have lost their lives in this way
If driven along distance, everything eventually dies and the the car stops and another battery bites the dust.
Dead batteries will not take a charge

I reckon dynamo and regulator need proper testing (there is a diagram of the latter in the manual) and dynamo needs overhauling. I imagine the engine is running on the battery rather than  (or as well as) the dynamo and that is frying the battery somehow.

When I bought it the previous owner did something simple to energise/excite the dynamo by brushing negative terminals or something and this made the generator light go out. Electrics then behaved fine for a few years. I hate electrics though they are simple enough once you know what how.

Any wiring wizards out there?

Alan

On my Nissan (sorry) the alternator failed and killed the battery !!!!!  It (the alternator)  had been playing up, dim charge light, but other than that all seemed well, then a totally flat battery. I charged it overnight and all seemed fine when I started it the next morning, but at the next start (10 mins later) absolutely nothing !!!!

The local auto electrician took it away and rebuilt the alternator in his workshop, he had the battery on charge and drove it out onto the driveway, closed the doors and then went to start it again, nothing !!!!!!!  So a new battery and, touch wood, all fine since (20mths).
In his opinion, running the car with a slightly under-performing alternator damaged the battery terminally.

A lesson for me to remember !!

                 Andy

Thanks Andy

Your story reinforces my belief that the unreformed 50 year old dynamo is probably acting up, whether with or without the help of the regulator. So an overhaul of that would be a good place for Richard to start. I've just remembered why I didn't do it at the time this problem first started - the dynamo is located somewhere quite surprisingly low down and inaccessible and that requires the removal of another ancillary component - possibly the starter or the rad. Bit of a job anyhow and not one I was particularly minded to do as the car has been in storage and only started periodically out of curiosity  or to move it around- though that was 3 batteries and 2 years ago.

Alan

My contribution to this is my Aprilia (ovs) was found unexpectedly to have a loose fan belt Thursday evening in my prep for the long round trip to the AGM. No problem, quick move of bonnet and front grill, find dynamo loose - it's eccentric thro the rad and tighens (or in this case got loose) the fan belt, so tighten all up put back together, and start up to find every thing fine charging at c30amps.

Return to car yesterday, dynamo/regulator not working. No charge whatsoever ever. I did some basic tests which told me I would need to take another car. A good reason why every Lancia's owner should have a spare.....

As the car is a 12 v conversion with (I believe) and aurelia dynamo and Lucas regulator this is a non standard repair scenario. More later.

Silver lining was the trip from Colchester to Cheltenham was pants and not the sort of journey you want to do in a pre war car...

Tim

i have now cleaned and painted the battery tray[which is in good condition]and will install a new battery[065 55Ah 46 pounds  + master switch 16 pounds both +VAT from BREENS maidstone]and new leads /terminals.will have to fabricate a clamp to secure the battery also then check charging circuit.so time spent so far-throttle mech 4hrs/fuel filter+plugs 2hrs/battery tray 1hr/seat runners 1hr.total cost to date 56.39[battery]to answer your question Alan regarding the contents of the glove box just the filter and a rear view mirror were present-no cash or diamonds that i could see!boot emptied and cleaned up- also i have not driven 'around the block' for a [pre arranged as uk law demands] MOT yet.breens are sourcing brake piston assemblies-2+eighth and 1+5 eighth i am told.there is a very slim chance these will not be reqd as the wheels are free so brakes not binding.whilst i am in the battery area i will remove and check the steering damper.if any one has special tools for the flaminia i would be grateful to borrow them to have some replicated for future use on my own car .[deposit paid]best regards richard

I don't remember the filter at all but the extra rear view mirror came from the previous owner some time after I had bought the car. The one fitted seems to be a non-original  addition but I couldn't see how the extra one was any more original ... though it is nice and shiny. You really ought to get a digital camera to record and share your progress. You'll need to rebuild the servo and master cylinder eventually too I expect though the main braking issue seemed to me to be air in the system.

hi Alan,i must get a digital camera you are quite right!i was contemplating the idea this morning.please bear with me.best regards richard

You do that. Perhaps you won't mind if I post the following pictures meanwhile of the removal from storage and delivery of your car from Wexford to Kent ....

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-UTk3Upt6f-8/TjRSyN-a1rI/AAAAAAAABTc/Jd77ZpKGggM/s400/DSCN1365.jpg)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-nw6EV-S_Gms/TjRS66RQ1gI/AAAAAAAABTg/VvUWhpeD4S4/s400/DSCN1369.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_kxB1vlMYxQ/TjRUPa0NExI/AAAAAAAABTw/NvN6ZPCVb2I/s400/DSCN1411%25255B1%25255D.jpg)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-9es0V92OlyA/TjRUoAK3xiI/AAAAAAAABU8/_u1eACzzPkw/s400/DSCN1423%25255B1%25255D.jpg)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-NDgYVKnO2rg/Tkrz5Y22o5I/AAAAAAAABgQ/DoJK4-riH1A/s400/DSCN1437.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-srReuErqayo/TjRVZ7ujj3I/AAAAAAAABUI/5F7z3E_Mj6g/s400/DSCN1441%25255B1%25255D.jpg)

That must be the furthest the flaminia has travelled in many years, :)

i will remember that delivery trip with great fondness.the route through town was a memorable one!coffee in carlton house terrace on a saturday morning and the photo in the square-glad the tourists liked the car- fabulous.camera or camera phone next week once i have sorted future employment details!best regards richard

dynamo:not charging so i have tried to remagnetise/repolarise and excite the dynamo[12v to D+ and ground D- and DF with drive belt removed]but the dynamo moved only poorly instead of the reqd.'spinning like an electric motor'.so seems like removal is reqd.advice welcome.best regards richard

Would suggest worn brushes or possibly
field coil insulation breaking down.

looks like a refurb then colonel

Richard

I believe John Jenkins advertised some Flamina wheels in VL a couple of months ago.

Tim

i have collected them from John inc new 175 400 tyre [mounted on wheel] which i have put in the boot as the spare.a fortunate find!best regards richard

dynamo and regulator now with the local repair chaps who will see if they can fix it or if a 'new?' one is the best bet.best regards richard

Is there no end to your industry.... how did you get the dynamo out?

hi Alan,to remove the dynamo disconnect battery ,remove the belt tensioning bolt,remove drive belt,remove water radiator securing bolts front and rear+the radiator top mount,move radiator forwards half an inch on the left side,release dynamo cradle band fastener bolt,slip dynamo forwards from cradle then label and disconnect wiring-took a morning to work out .best regards richard

Flam 823 engine just popped-up on ebay for £100 (starting bid).  No connection to seller... 

Spare for your 'new' car, Richard?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lancia-V6-all-alloy-Engine-/260836969111?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3cbb184a97 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lancia-V6-all-alloy-Engine-/260836969111?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3cbb184a97)

thank you William,can you tell what size it is?best regards richard

Assuming the seller has written the numbers down correctly (quite possible he's not, given there are too many numbers in 82300 2145545), we can deduce that 823.00 came into the world in a left hand drive 2.5l Farina coupe of which about 3,000 were produced.
http://www.circolodellalancia.it/commenti-tecnici/flaminia/59-dati-di-produzione-di-tutte-le-flaminia.html (http://www.circolodellalancia.it/commenti-tecnici/flaminia/59-dati-di-produzione-di-tutte-le-flaminia.html)

thanks William,whats the value of the engine anyone?also this model in RHD guise seems to have been made in quite low numbers.best regards richard

also [apologies for the repetition]its a shame these things are not often in VL etc

No idea what it's worth.  If it was an Aurelia engine (same, only older and not quite as well engineered) it would be 10 times that starting price for sure.  Worth more if it's not frozen, I'd say.  I bought a frozen touring 2.5 Flaminia engine for £500 about 5 years ago; probably paid too much...

If you wanted to buy a second-hand Flaminia starter motor from Italy it would probably cost 150 Euros minimum.  So there's some value in the engine / oil cooler / starter seen in the ad.

I have a lovely Flaminia camshaft in excellent condition available for sale. Not sure what it is worth - make me an offer!
Chris

Richard

The various chassis and engine series identification numbers for different types of Flaminia are listed at the front of the Tavola book I gave you (and possibly also the workshop manual).

The grey mashed up car I showed in the earlier for sale thread had a non-siezed 2.8 engine with carbs present. I can't remember what I gave for the transaxle which you now have but I always regretted not offering more for the engine. I believe it went to Portugal and to someone who not only knew its value but was also prepared to offer and pay accordingly.

What news on the light restoration front today? Once you have the charging system sorted you can charge on to the braking system I suppose?

Alan

hi Alan,i telephoned the electrical fellows today who said they will call back later-too busy to have looked at it at that point[they said its more time consuming to test than some things that they handle as they have to connect the dynamo to the regulator with 3 wires!?!will visit them tomorrow.i have spent today putting the spares into storage until reqd.unfortunately the key broke off in the bootlock this afternoon so i have silversoldered it back together and filed it to shape.it wont work in the boot but just about operates the ignition switch which i dismantled to establish knowledge of its inner workings.anyhow if a spare key is not available i will need to get a blank[white key similar profile to a fulvia s1 etc-cant remember if these are available though!]alternatively a new set of barrels/keys all round.best regards richard

I've got some Flam Farina keys and locks that were matched by keys galore a few years ago for a car now departed.  Let me know if you need them.  Definitely have the boot lock with a working key in the barrel!

thanks William i will give you a ring.best regards richard

sold at 485 pounds!should be useful-does anyone know of its destiny?richard

i am now familiar with the inner secrets of the boot lock/catch in addition to the ignition switch!both now stripped/cleaned/lubed and refitted to car and the remains of the repaired key working[but rather frail looking] in both by some miracle-i dont want to add more solder incase that makes matters worse and the key wont work once again.[door and glove box not working though].also passenger door handle has no external means of being locked-anyone know why?i was reluctant to lock the boot with the key in a poor state but will do so now as in the course of removal  discovered a method of activating the mechanism from outside the car with no special tools.if had not found out about this i was thinking about installing a cabin accessible means of release [cable to latch type]for emergencies,and still may do so for the bonnet release mechanism whic is rather more complex than a fulvia.best regards richard

also to answer the question of the next jobs on the list.once electrics are working brakes will indeed be next job.also i will get the car to the garage across the road and onto their lift to draw up a list of underside jobs which are not apparent at present.looking at the roof more closely it seems what looks like filler is actually 1mm thick filler/paint which has  not adhered properly so i am looking forward to paint strip and hope the roof is in good enough condition to apply the paint left over from my fulvia sedan.best regards richard

new ignition switch /keys and glovebox/bootlid locks with matching keys now fitted[thanks William].i have now found that the blank which was unsuitable for my fulvia fits my original flaminia ignition switch now that it is cut to match the broken one so if anyone needs a secondhand[correct item with chrome locking ringnut in perfect working order] flaminia ignition switch with key please let me know.best regards richard

Steady progress. Onwards and upwards. Maybe all that car needed was a new owner. Are you aiming to drive it to Gaydon then?

if it is road worthy [which means fitting in a few hundred hours of work] then i see no reason why not, but not sure how my new work situation is going to progress.anyhow should get the replacement regulator soon so will proceed from there .can anyone tell me what the gaydon day will comprise-is it more than just the AGM.richard

What's all this about Gaydon and AGM? Have I missed something?

Lovely stuff about the Flaminia though! Keep it up.

Colin

Yes the re-run of the AGM is to be held in Gaydon on 9 October as per flyer in September Viva Lancia received today.

Alan,

Thanks. I have just received my copy of VL! and I see it too. But it's not so much a re-run, more a rubber stamping operation. I had hoped that this might have been a bit more than that, with an opportunity for members who didn't (or couldn't) attend the event in July to join in some discussion of club affairs, and make something social of it at the same time - seems not.

Colin

I am loath to be the one to start a new AGM thread so I hope Richard won't mind us chatting in his Flaminia workshop for now - in reality it is more of a canopy than a workshop but it should provide the necessary "cover".

A few of us were thinking of making the trip (by Lancia) from Dublin on the basis that there would be something to see at Gaydon but I am realising now that it is not another "AGM and National Rally" but rather a necessary procedural formality on the AGM side.

So we may save our lancia road trip for the NEC in November instead when there will be more to see ... or we may yet do both as there is always Lancia business to be done with cars and parts for sale to be looked at, collected and so on. Isn't that right Richard?

More buying than selling just lately!

on the subject of buying next up is a voltage regulator @ 47 pounds +VAT

hi Chris,i am not in need of a camshaft to my knowledge[touch wood!]and my restoration funds are allocated to various little[and probably larger jobs]but if you find yourself in need of any fulvia spares please let me know and perhaps we can swap something.best regards richard

thanks David for the pic reducing site .unsuccessful at present but i have gained imesh and a 'pc running too slow c/w an invitation to have the problem fixed!blackberry camera is handy though.but no more time to investigate the pc today as i have been testing my new ign.switch before sending the original to someone else locally who needs one.it seemed to work with the exception of operating the starter.so put the original back on and no joy with that either.joining the common and starter wires operates the starter- but not with the key in the 180 position only in the 90 degree position.i have tested both with a continuity meter and both work properly, so i think the problem is the wiring which is temporarily disconected from the dynamo/regulator.will try once that is reconnected.on stripping/checking the old and new switches it was apparent the original is very well made so i might keep that one installed.best regards richard

FAIL  (but does this mean you now own a camera? What next - e-mail?)

A quick tutorial on posting pictures from my own experience:

You can display a picture in a forum post in 2 main ways:

(1) by sending ("uploading") the picture file to this forum . This is permanent but the file size is quite limited:  use the "additional options" link below the editing window to identify the location of the file on your computer to be uploaded. You may have to re-size the photo first - this is not just physical cropping but rather reducing its density or resolution. This service is free on-line - look up "photo re-sizer" in Google - I use this one and it saves the reduced file in the same place as the original on your computer but with a different name. http://www.picresize.com/ (http://www.picresize.com/)

(2) by placing the picture file elsewhere on the internet and then creating a link to it which causes it to display here. This is only as permanent as the location of the image itself but it is not subject to file size limitations and you can also decide the size of its appearance here: use the "insert image" icon above the editing window to create the code "{img}ADDRESS{/img}" that finds and displays the image from whatever "ADDRESS" you insert. Typically you can use somewhere like Flikr or Photobox or Picasa (linked to Google) as a place on the internet to house and share your digital photos and, for each of your pictures, these places provide you with a link (i.e. the ADDRESS) that you then insert into the code above.

I will expect you to be posting in 3D technicolour by bedtime.

will try again once i get some help as i could have processed a film in the time i have spent on posting a digi pic -although i was almost there this morning albeit with a none reduced picture.i think 50 year old technology suits me better

thanks Alan for the info in the edited post.as it happens e mail has got there first!  richardfridd1@hotmail.com .meanwhile back in the real world of nuts,bolts and dirty hands i have now fitted the new front bumper which looks rather smart with matching overiders.strangely the RH overider had previously been fitted [longterm looking at the marks/difference in wear to plating] on the left and the LH on the right. i assume this is not correct as this meant them pointing outwards rather than straight ahead as they are now.also all brackets were different and overider fasteners different[one with stud/one with thread to accept bolt]so i have had an enjoyable day painting brackets and parts obscured by the old bumper[which is now surplus to requirements if anyone is desperate!] and fitting new nuts and bolts left over from my fulvia spare stock.also a new voltage regulator arrived at the electricians workshop but was deemed to be faulty so another one is on its way i am told.best regards richard

 the regulator enquiries made by the SE auto electricians have not yet resulted in a regulator arriving whch is fit for purpose.the one which did arrive was of 'home made'appearance! and also did not function!!however a call to omicron sent me in the right direction and as it turned out SE auto happened to  have the omicron recommended  lucas equivelent regulator[25 A/12V] in stock.a test with the components working together proved a success i am told so i will refit to the car tomorrow.thanks to omicron and SE autos maidstone.best regards richard

dynamo now refitted with the new regulator which reqd.different wiring.the fitting/removal process has become easier with familiarity[aligning the lug on the dynamo with the hole in the cradle is essential otherwise the cradle 'strap' will not fit and drivebelt alighnment will be incorrect too].still a few hours work including solving the wiring puzzle.i still need to know where to fit the 'starter motor cut out relay'wire.i assume this relay prevents starter operation once the engine is running and charging.i am using the original ign.switch with new key as it now operates the starter as it should in the 180 degree position so i suppose the cut out relay/disconnected wiring was causing the previous  odd situation.in the course of todays work i also found wires local to the fusebox pinched between the fuse box and engine bay structure so i have sorted that as well.also the battery iscolator switch has made todays work a lot easier and safer to complete.so latest costs 61 quid including electrical testing at SE autos.best regards richard

Any idea how many hours so far?   Each write up is quite some list.

David

hours consumed:throttle mech.4,filter/plugs 2,batterytray 1,seat runners 1,battery/cables/switch 8,charging circuit/start engine/fuel filter bowl repair 6,remove dynamo 2,locks/keys 4,front bumper 8,refit dynamo/reg/rewire to suit 6.so around 42 hours spent thus far on some basic but worthwhile jobs!richard

please add 8hrs/zero costs to that!todays time was invested in removing/ stripping /repairing/refitting the parking brake handlever.the ratchet mechanism was not providing a positive action so i have built up the internal main lever face with brazing spelter which seems to have compensated for wear on the face and elsewhere.split pins now replaced along with the main lever spindle.the operation of the ratchet will be monitored for further potential wear.also i have replaced the throttle return spring with one that works as the existing one fouled the carb linkage.the top of the engine  has responded well to cleaning.black crackle rocker covers/inlet manifold etc now look rather smarter than yesterday.also replaced some corroded electrical terminals and tested the horns which seem to be working at present!richard

I can't see any of your pics ....

technical support chap will arrive soon i hope[but i bet he cant fix old cars!]

coolant now replaced in advance of lower ambient values and engine run briefly to circulate.i have had to refix the cold start control lever which is situated below the dashboard and have fitted a  spring on the carb end to ensure a positive return rather than rely upon the rigid cable.so i now have improved control of carburetor for starting which prevents wetting the plugs etc.also i have now insulated the bare terminals [with 'shrinksleeve'] at the distributor end of the HT leads to prevent 'crossfire'

Did you do anything about the central terminal/brush of the distributor cap? I think there was a spring missing from beneath it - I had just jammed a bit of wire in there in my efforts to get it started after 2 years ....

the wire mentioned has become a spiral of spring steel thanks to a miracle-so no further action reqd. at present!also i have stripped /repaired the windscreen wiper mechanism/checked lamp operation/direction indicators etc.rear number plate lamp fitting needs replacement but OK for now.bootlid interior lamp fitting missing so will have to find something suitable.also windscreen washer [glass] bottle treated with acid based solution which has resulted in a very new looking container for the screenwash.best regards richard

picture progress-dash pic now (http://)as avatar

pictures now available after many weeks of trying to discover the 'insert image' method!(http://)

Oooh nice bumper. Makes it look like a different car, particularly with the overriders. What are those tubes hanging down under the dash in the other pic - I always presumed they were screen washer related but maybe your work there ended with the scarification of the washer bottle.

To "insert" pics they first have to be located somewhere else on the internet - have you saved your pictures to a photo hosting website? You can test try it with someone elses picture - just grab the address of any picture on the internet and insert it between the {img}{/img} things

But congrats on your photographic progress so far.

And have you been at the roof?

those tubes are associated with the washer bottle 'vacuum' system i think.i will probably install a standard pump to actually use which could easily incorporate the heatexchanger mentioned in your fulvia thread.roof stripped to reveal no rust or dents and repainted in matt blue for now-so can add 20hours [and the rest!]to the 'total time'column and 6 quid for masking tape.tomorrow is to be spent with the car on the local garage ramp to plan for repairs underneath etc.although will have to wait for some money to appear to progress further.best regards richard

Well done Richard, The car is looking so much better with the bumper , It's been transformed , I noticed the different colour roof. Maybe you should paint it two tone ?  :) Thanks david.

My vote is a silver blue for the top, as it looks in the pictre. Love the cream wheels and hubcaps, and those most enormous side lights below the headlights.  Are the indicators in there as well or do they flash to indicate through some highly complex mechanical relay system powered by engine vacuum?

Bumper looks lovely, the very plain looking (in the photo) plate less so.

Keep at it - am loving the regular updates.

David

Fabulous wheel and dash and that ashtray would make you want to take up smoking just to use it.  Does the ash drop into a lower compartment?  Is the top engraved? 

The steering wheel badge is a detail I'd never noticed before, likewiser the three warning lights.  Anyone know if they vary between Flaminias or have I just not been looking...

David

I think they vary - Bill James who has a lovely later and lighter blue 2.8 coupe pointed up all sorts of differences in the dash when I showed him pictures of it. Fridders' car is a 1961 2.5.

the roof would look very good in silver but would have to continue along the rear 'fins' which would not be so good having seen similar in the past.a breath taking dash with serious looking and properly functioning [apart from clock]instruments and that steering wheel is a lovely design in very good condition..it will not be replaced with a nardi or similar.the three warning lamps illuminate with authority.the front 'city lights' double as direction indicators[not seperate filaments or seperate bulbs?] and i would not like to have to draw a schematic electrical diagram in my head for those but explanation welcome!the dublin  plates will be replaced in due course with ones suitable for a 50! year old car.the ashtray has brass internals and the PF logo on the lid and does feature an engraved pattern.can anyone recommend something to smoke commensurate with such a receptacle?perhaps there is room for a decanter[containing something paired with the tobacco product in the ashtray] to be stowed somewhere for when the driving day is over.so what did Bill say the dash differences were?cream wheels and hubcaps will remain.best regards richard

Well done Richard,
At the rate you're restoring cars, Chugga might have to look out ;D

Brian
8227 8)

hi Brian,so far not much money spent which is just as well as not much money coming in!i will be able to have a good look underneath today if the local garage is still free to help and get an idea of future spending reqd.a lottery grant would be very welcome to spend on such a lovely looking car.more pictures to come but typically my pc dosnt reconise new hardware at the moment.richard

only small lottery win reqd !inspection has revealed work needed in the following areas-brakes generally,n/s bottom balljoint.n/srod end,n/s subframe corrosion x3,o/s sill,rear brakes binding,handbrake pads and mechanism,n/s footwell.the clutch has no 'play' which may explain the reported slipping.so not bad

As you say Richard, not so bad and can all be picked off, one at a time, as opportunity and finances allow.

Good luck with it and please do keep posting, it makes great reading even though  I do not have and know nothing about Flaminias.

                           Andy

one from covent garden which seems different to mine-maybe the wheel 'rings'(http://)

(http://)

And the rear lights make a difference too - not sure if you can retrofit those but they are available new

Richard, here is another shot of the car at Covent Garden in 2007 if that is any help.

If it's still the same owner as in the 200 Register, which I supect it is, it belongs to Martin & elizabelth Cliffe at Omicron.

Brian
8227 8)

its now with Charles Frodsham according to C&SC JULY article.richard

i see this car is still on the RTCC website too[with pics]

Trying to make progress with my flaminia PF which is now booked in for welding work which can start as soon as I can deliver the car along with new/spare/refurbished  brake components which are to be fitted at the same visit to the workshop.I have fitted new plugs today which have improved starting and running but I have noticed an irregular exhaust beat from the r/h pipe.when I put my hand to the end of the pipe there is a negative pressure experienced which accompanies one of the pulses in the cycle.advice welcome!best regards richard

Have you been taking any pictures?

no new pictures as yet but I am again wondering if there is a way of re  registering as 310 HUS which is no longer in  the DVLA record book according to my local office.richard

Progress is on the horizon!the PF is now in the welding bay despite suffering a puncture en route due to a screw so will have to look in the stores for another s/h wheel/tyre to keep things rolling.if anyone has some good condition 165 or 175 400 tyres to replace my ageing rubber and to  go with my new spare please let me know.best regards richard

Richard,
 do you have documentation to prove that 310 HUS was originally on your Flaminia, because when I tried to get Fay 224D back in 1999 the DVLA said they had no record and insisted that FAY had never be issued on a "D" Suffix, took me best part of a year to convince them even though I had her first tax disc dated 1/1/1966 and her last one finishing end december 1975, eventually it was issued but, as Non Transferable.
Brian
8227 8)

Hi Brian,310 HUS is on my Ireland 'logbook' as the previous UK ID but DVLA don't have a record of it so presumably it  has not been transferred to another vehicle.I have been offered a 3 no/3 letter alternative reg.so how should one proceed?richard

If I remember correctly, does 310 HUS not appear in the original 1961 logbook for this car (it also had at one stage a personal number assigned)?

There is also a more recent letter on file from DVLA telling a previous UK owner that her request to revert to one or other of these numbers (probably the personal one - I think it was registered as 310 HUS at the time) was not possible.

Of course the apparent non-availability now of what was the former reg no for this car could point up some sort of identity transfer sculduggery along the way but I doubt it.

As far as I know, 310 HUS was its number when it was exported from the UK to Ireland and re-registered here. It is possible that the apparent unavailability of the number now has to do with the fact that the Irish registration authorities did not do what was necessary (such as notifying DVLA of the re-registration and  taking in and sending DVLA the log book) to cause the number to become available for reassignment in DVLA records.

Another possibility is that the car was in storage for so long that it was never issued with a modern registration document and that this has somehow affected its status within the more modern DVLA records system. Though there must be plenty examples of that happening to cars all oer the UK.

I would have thought it simply a matter of reactivating the former DVLA registration and record of same.

Things are much easier over here in some respects and I always planned to claim the registration PFI 961 for it if I ever got around to it.

Thankyou Alan.how did your year convincing the DVLA progress Brian?what I did previously with my Vincent  500 was to take the original logbook(which a previous owner gave to me) and bike, to the local office.after much huffing and puffing the original reg was reinstated.best regards richard

Wasn't as easy as that, I had to somehow find evidence to show the leicestershire office HAD issued FAY on a D Suffix, which the DVLA said wasn't possible despite me having the tax discs and photos showing the number plates on her, this turned out to be a load of BS, as I found out that it was quite common to use up any registration letters and numbers an office had left over at the end of the year, by adding the New Registration suffix.
This was difficult to prove as all the Leicestershire paper records had been destroyed after they were added onto the DVLA computer, and it appears this was quite a common practice.
Eventually I found and wrote to an organisation called the "Kithead Trust" who had managed to save all the records from Leicestershire appertaining to Buses, obviously Fays registration number didn't appear in their records, but gave me proof that FAY had indeed been issued on a "D" suffix, as could be shown in their records, they also wrote a letter for me pointing out that they were very surprised that the DVLA was unaware of this situation as it was common knowledge.
I then rang Mr Jobsworth at the DVLA and told him of my finding whereupon he said "Oh that's all right then, I was curious and didn't realise that was the case" >:( lucky for this gentleman he was at the other end of the phone line rather than being in reach of my hands!
I sent this latest evidence in and shortly received the non transferable number.
All in All it took me about a year.
Brian
8227 8)

A letter with supporting documentation should be sent to the 'chief executive' at swansea.this apparently  advances the process by two steps according to a soon to be made redundent  aquaintance who by good fortune works within my local DVLA office.meanwhile my PF is now ready to vacate the welding/fabrication bay having received repairs to the underside including a n/s front footwell.the PF seems to be looking forward to being back on the road and is now starting instantly and driving around and about the forecourt.its new home is being prepared over the weekend for delivery on monday where all being well will move to the brake dept.at this rate the PF will be replacing my s2 sedan sooner than expected!best regards richard

Sounds like good progress. Well (weld) done. Onwards and upwards. It will certainly make an unusual everyday classic. You need to update us with some pictures. What did you do about the roof?

Thank you Alan,I do have pictures on my blackberry but none which are terribly interesting.that intimidating rust hole in the passenger footwell turned out to be only a minor challenge which was replaced as if by magic in the time it took me to walk up to the workshop and get changed into my overalls although some of the innocent looking smaller rust holesturned out to be more fiddly.I am indepted to my best friend  and  local welding hero once again for the five days spent in the pit!one detail I have yet to reinstate is the lockwiring to secure the subframe bolts.as for the roof what looked like a lot of work disappeared once the roof was stripped to bare metal.for the time being it is painted with primer and lancia blue with a matt finish.the lovely original welds are just visible through the paint as no filler has been used.next jobs-refurb parking brake pad carriers and fit the best of my stock of 175 tyres.also  wheel stud reqd from the stores as one is partially stripped despite the use of brass wheelnuts.best regards richard

And so to brakes.does anyone have experience of 'past parts'who are mentioned on page 288 of C+SC april edition and claim to be the only firm in this part of the world with the necessary expertise( coming from australia where  'resleeving is the norm')couldn't make out if the sleeve /casing leaking reference was a warranty claim or referred to the item  which was in for repair

Yes Richard I do. I used them for a brake master cylinder rebuild on a Bonaldi for an early Maserati Indy - good service and not too dear. However, shortly after fitment of the recon part the car developed a one off (thankfully) foot to the floor brake failure. This may be unrelated to the master cylinder, and investigation continues....

Hi Richard, you might be interested in my experience with the brakes in my Flaminia. The servo had been overhauled by Omicron shortly before I bought the car but I was never that happy with the way the car stopped.  After discussing with other owners, a story of the unreliability of the Flaminia servo emerged.  In particular, David Wakefield told me that he had experienced repeated problems until he finally upgraded to a modern servo.  I decided to follow his example.  There are not that many dual circuit remote servos being made today but Frenos Iruna in Spain do one (available from S-V-C in UK) for about £300 which is less than half the cost of getting the original overhauled. I made up a couple of mounting brackets that used the original mounting points and installed the new unit with no trouble - see picture - except that I had to fit a hydraulic brake light switch as the new unit (unlike the original) does not incorporate one.  Result - the car now stops like a modern car and the performance can be exploited with no worries about stopping.  More important, the unit has been totally reliable.

A lovely looking servo!what's not so lovely is the condition of my PF's front roll bar centremost bushes so will add those to the  list of jobs for the MOT inspector

A warm day here in kent which prompted me to strip and inspect the pair of  front suspension units which came with the PF as spares.all components were found to be in good condition so presumably low milage with coil springs of equal heght and appearance and thankfully every thing coming apart very easily.also I did notice some jaw marks on the track rods-could these be the fabled hardness test marks?best regards richard

The spare suspension units have yielded a replacement track rod + ends   which are now installed on the PF.the ball joints needed some grease and one brake piston assembly is now off  to remove the seized nipple and free the piston.replacement may be reqd.the nipple is sufficiently hard  to resist HSS and S/S bits and brittle.In the course of this work I was wondering the best method for balljoint replacement.advice welcome incase this needs to be done in the future.best regards richard

The stubborn nipple has been removed.the visible part had become harder than my bits including s/s bit but once half way down as soft as would be expected.  anyhow the assembly is past its best with pitted bore etc.so before investing in new dunlop piston assemblies all round has anyone found suitable alternatives as suggested by our local custom  enthusiast who is helping progress with his invalueable  experience of the motortrade spread over 50+ years.also the parking/emergency brake has now been made to work properly.there are 3 different types according to the manual-early mk1/late mk1 and self adjusting mk2.some  retension plates  are  handed.the clutch now has some free play which will hopefully stop the reported slipping .the PF now has s/h  175/400s  on each corner + the new spare instead of a mixture of sizes. next job radiator tank!best regards richard

Brake cable-tried to modify last post( without success)  as I failed the mention the pully wheels on the transaxle casing.the angle of these and their respective bronze cable guides seem to be fixed at a less than ideal angle in relation to each other meaning that the cable doesn't address the wheel or the bore of the guide as I would expect and there appears to be no adjustment available.advice welcome as always.richard

Yes I tried to reply too but my reply was deemed "unacceptable". I am unqualified to advise in this matter as I never got in that far myself.

So does anyone know how to solve the problem of the'unacceptable'message appearing when attempting to reply or edit?in the meantime I have been unsuccessful in resoldering the leak on the 'tank'seam.advice welcome regarding the method of removing the tank to retin and resolder to the core(I don't have a spare rad so need to get it right without excess heat reaching the core.richard

A further thought on brakes-would it be cost effective to fit drum brakes and associated parts if available  until the funds materialise to buy the dunlop piston assemblies(1300quid +)advice welcome.richard

When I went to collect a book from Richard aside from nearly buying his Fulvia Berlina...

http://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5143.0

...we also got a look at his Flamina.  He said it would be ok to share some photos. 

David

MOT now passed with no advisories

Well done.  That was a brave purchase and a lot of work but what a machine you have there...  I'm itching to see it now.

David

Thanks David. Immediately after the test I  visited the DVLA who tell me they have the original UK registration number which I can reclaim at no cost along with the zero duty road fund licence. The number was not on their system last time I asked so hopefully it will still be there when I present my paperwork which must be stamped with  the LMC Stamp. Richard

Hearty congratulations.  I look forward to a ride in it some time.

You'll never guess what I found on Sunday - those errant NOS brake cylinders...  PM me if you still might need them (I've not checked the sizes yet, though and might keep if correct for my Flavia rather than Flam).

Cheers,
William

Well done Richard, great stuff!
Brian
8227 8)

Congratulations Fridders - you've brought that car back to life. Happy motoring!

Interior

Richard, your car looks great, but I think your camera needs a service!
Regards, John  ;)

Thanks John,it's a Blackberry.I did take it to the 02 shop to be cleaned,but to no avail by the looks of things.Due for a new device sooner or later.richard

Lets rephrase that...Richard you do your fab Flaminia and all your efforts a dis-service by not putting up pucca pics....please retake with a suitable high grade camera......even if it is just to please the two of us!!!!

:)


P

Thanks for the prompts.Found the problem! There was still the plastic film protector over the Blackberry lens which has been deteriorating over the past year. The scrub it got at the O2 shop probably made things worse.Anyhow perfect pics now but the resolution has improved which is preventing posting them. Resizing reqd. Richard

Resized

Cheers Richard.................so very nice........:)

P

I thought the original pictures were blured because you were getting hot and steamy at the prospect of finally driving the Flaminia!

Well done Richard - much better. I'm not impressed by the service department if they didn't notice the plastic!
 Regards, John

Still hot and steamy and the sevice department do what they do!

Richard, lovely photos, so much for modern technology !
Brian
8227 8)

What a beautiful car Richard and well done for the re-vitalising.

Hope to see it sometime soon,

                       Andy

Great stuff Richard, well done! Look forward to seeing it soon.

Robin.

Thanks for the kind comments.Paperwork approved in the local DVLA office and road fund licence issued along with original registration number.richard

Very satisfying to see that working out. Getting the original number is a nice touch. You can go to the shops in it now I imagine.

Found the actual rear original plate in the boot.Thanks for saving it Alan!

I think I used it to cover the hole in the passenger footwell when I made my Mrs travel in it...

Hi Alan,did Mrs. Murphy enjoy travelling in the Flaminia? I think I should fit seatbelts before taking passengers.It seems that there are no existing mounting points though.Also I shall refurbish the rear leaf springs to restore rear ride height. At the moment I am improving the fuse box and electrical connections.Also replacing the existing copper wire in the 6 cross-drilled subframe bolts with stainless wire which is a good oppotunity to make use of the lock-wire pliers.A lovely tool.The missing wheelnuts turned up in the boot too.richard

Richard, I would be grateful to hear of any conclusions that you come to about your rear spring refurbishment as I am currently considering a similar problem on my convertible.  I recently decided to renew the silent block bushes in my springs only to find, on the first one that removed, that the last quadrant of the eye that the front bush fits into had cracked right through allowing the spring to slide to and fro slightly as it flexes.  I suspect that this is why the car looked slightly low at the back - because the spring length is not properly restrained. I think that it has been like it for years - never failed an MOT because of it - but difficult to spot.  Elizabeth Cliffe at Omicron told me that her own car suffered the same fault some years ago.  Anyway, I think that my solution will be to replace the top leaf and I have been attempting to locate any old springs that people may have that I could "rob".  If that fails, I shall need to get new top leaves made.

Hi Charles,my plan is to add a leaf (second largest) to my existing springs and see how that affects ride- height.One of my spare springs has an eye broken off so no use.I did the same to my Fulva in the Sedan thread.richard

Or I might swap a middle leaf for a larger one.In the meantime found these in the boot.Rubber parts which I have not come across before.

Hi Richard. congratulations on a superb job.

I am not sure, but I think those bits might be to do with the inner rear CV joint. One part has a set of arms radiating from the driven shaft and the other part fits over it with sectors cut out that the arms engage in. However the cut outs are much bigger than the arms and have a rubber pad either side of the arm to cushion the force as it takes up the driving force. Perhaps someone else can confirm this.

No - she is at best a reluctant passenger in Lancias of any type although she always said that the Flaminia was the nicest of them (to look at). I think she only travelled in it once or twice on a very short local run to walk the dog at the beach or something.

I thought you would have cleared the boot by now! Good to hear you found the extra bronze wheelnuts I left you.

And yes, as Frank correctly says, those rubber things are from the rear driveshaft assembly - I had to dismantle it to fit the transaxle in the boot. Wonderful design and a thing of great beauty to work on - it was just a pity I had to do it in such a rush.

Did you get to the bottom of the horrible droning noise from the back end yet? Wheel bearing? That was why I had the spare rear end. Hopefully it will yield the necessary spares for you when you get around to it? Its from a 2.8 so the gearing is different ...and possibly some of the external linkages to the propshaft.

Droning sound not there at presemt but I will be working on the rear end this week including those  springs if I get a chance.Changing bearings requires the use of a special tool no doubt. Poor electrical connections now soldered and fuse box cleaned up.Also now have the "city lights" / yellow driving lights working reliably.

Coming out

Apart

That looks rather familiar Richard !! I do not know how alike Flaminia and Aurelia rear suspensions are, but there appear to be a lot of similarities from what I can see in your 2 photos.

Good luck with it, I found cutting the new interleaving was a pain and if you are going for new wheel bearings you should prepare yourself for a possible battle royal !!!

Please keep posting with lots of photos,

                                          Andy

The tired flattened leaves compared with the spares.the shackles have all been released on both springs .so quite a difference!

A missing part.Is this what happened to yours Charles?

Great work Fridders! No hanging about with you there - flattened springs no sooner said than out and mended! I'd try the new springs but keep the longest ones from both old ones so you have equal springing. Isn't it amazing how 50-year old cars come apart so easily when they are designed manufactured and assembled to such high standards. Apparently that spring broke when the guy I bought it from was removing the rear suspension and transaxle for me in one assembly. Anyhow the car they came from is pictured here and you can see it sits nicely ...

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-MaSLEuiCMJI/TgpIhXH7qyI/AAAAAAAABIk/Y4S7Vd76ujw/s640/doodlebug%252520033.jpg)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-d2J2cihBOhQ/TgpImufsXzI/AAAAAAAABIo/Q_jRrYzZb2A/s640/doodlebug%252520032.jpg)

So what happened to the rest of that "ripe for restoration" car I wonder? "No sooner said than done" equals "more time than money"! Anyhow I have re assembled one spring re using the original uppermost leaf and have added an extra  middle leaf(5th from bottom).I have re used the interleaving as where possible  this is a preservation  rather than a restoration job.However I have been able to select longer than usual lengths from the surplus which I have trimmed to correct size thus removing the worn through areas.richard

Good move with the interleaving Richard, it certainly moving forward !!!

                               Andy

Moving forward in particular was the rear spring shackle which attaches to the bodyshell. It became overcentre forward of its axis once the refitted spring had the tension removed (when the jack supporting the spring was lowered).The solution turned out to be a wooden block placed between the rear of the spring and the bodyshell to stop this happening again.Anyhow one side completed with a resulting 25mm increase in rear ride height.

Ah yes - not an uncommon problem or solution .... http://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4538.15 (http://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4538.15)

(http://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4538.0;attach=12996;image)

In danger of repeating something elsewhere, on Fulvia you MUST set the silent blocks with the spring under load (80mm top of spring to bump stop) which can only be done by putting a Falaminia transaxle or equivelent in the boot before tightening up the shackles. The design is to hold the inner of the silent block hard against the shackles and of course the outer is held by the spring. Failing to do this runs the risk of tearing the silent block on max extension of suspension.

Important to a lively Fulvia but I dont know how important to a Flaminia or indeed if the design principles were the same (I suspect they would be). However this setting for the Fulvia gets the correct ride height as well!!

Both sides completed

Richard,
Very nice ;D

brian
8227 8)

Thank you Brian,next job leaking radiator!

Keep It going Richard, I am engoying this thread.  :)

A poor joint around the"tank"needs re soldering.I can only do this with the radiator laying on it's front at 45 degrees otherwise water seeps from the joint interfering with the repair.Radiator blinds are operated by a thermostatic bellows of course,which I will remove first.

Soldered

The bellows

Whilst accessible, the drain valve has been coaxed into operation  with the help of some lubricant applied through the drain outlet(with the radiator inverted) and just enough leverage applied between the mechanism securing  pin and the housing rather than twisting the handle which has an inherent  degree of flex.

Softly softly...

I can't wait to see it again - better yet a run out to the Lenham Cafe which is on my "seek and enjoy" list.

http://www.lenhamcafe.com/

David

Just down the road . Let me know when you are free. In fact a good spot for an occasional Kent gathering.In the meantime the car is ready for a road test now that the radiator is re-installed.One hose replaced also.Incidentally the bottom most hose clips need careful fitting as the worm drives are very close to the steering box and idler box arms.

Did you get the drain valve to work ?

Drain valve working! As with my Fulvia Zagato I shall move it back and forth as part of the maintenance program to try and  keep it that way.

Richard, your solder picture is a bit disturbingly ugly - how far away were you standing when you threw the bucket of molten solder towards the rad?

Alan

A safe distance! Let us see if the repair is successful in stopping the leak.

Those spare brake discs will need skimming for fitting at a later date

4 discs now sent for machining.Whilst this is being done I am checking the fuel guage as I have been putting a few gallons in here and there with only a quarter  tank showing on the guage.The sender unit has been removed and it seems to be seized.The good news is that the tank is full to within two inches from the top! So lubrication and a new cork float to be fitted

Now lubricated and refitted,ready for testing once the missing earth wire is reinstated.Guage seems to be OK as connecting to earth results in a full scale deflection.

Guage now reading correctly.I am now thinking about the rear wheel bearings.Can someone tell me if these can  be removed with the axle on the car or is it a job for the bench? I have the spare axle to use as a pattern for making a suitable tool Also I need to know which oil filter is suitable.Advice welcome! Best regards richard

Rear brakes are the subject of a further question.I am wondering if the brake piston assemblies can be removed without complete removal of the transaxle.Is lowering it any use or is it best to take it out completely.Advice welcome once again.richard

Last one for now.Does anyone have part number for the oil filter element or is there a "spin off" alternative.Also air filter/fuel filter/servo air cleaner.Advice welcome of course.

Richard,

There is a how to guide in VL.........want me to look it up for you and email it to you?


P

That would be much appreciated Frank.Many thanks for the offer. Richard

A locking ring on the spare axle.Tool to be made unless someone has one surplus?

Richard, Jim has a drawing for the tool !!!  This was the little blighter that caused us so much problem on the B20.

Give me a call on 07900 266985 if you want more detail.

                                          Andy

                               

No probs.....will email to you later this evening


P

Oil filter element is the same as Flavia iirc so should be readily available.

Thanks Andy,Frank and Alan.Am I correct in thinking , the rear bearing VL article , shows that the locking ring tool could remain stationary inboard whilst a spare road wheel is fitted "back to front" and rotated to undo the locking ring.Can anyone confirm? Anyow the answer to my question regarding the need to remove the de dion axle has been answered as not necessarily. Hopefully the spare axle has usable bearings as I understand they can cost 500 quid a pair. Just need a "how to guide" for the rear brake job mentioned earlier. Richard

If the bearings are worn, they can probably be rebuilt. When I get back from the USA I can let you know of a firm which can do it for a lot less money. By the way, the reason I'm here is attached!
Regards, John

I am sure I've seen the "setup" mentioned, somewhere.....just need to ferret it out...diagram too


P

is this Cavallito price for bearings. would expect them cheaper for him.?

try Brian Hilton who has LMC tools?
is this Cavallito price for bearings. would expect them cheaper for him.?

These guys do the Fulvia/Flavias refurbishment of the bearings.....not sure they are the same design as the Flaminias....if so they too can be rebuilt at a fraction of the cost new. I beleive Aurelias because of their design cannot be refurbed full stop

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350579881597?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649


P

Diagram. Good idea Tim but I understand there are no LMC Flaminia tools . Richard

Another

Can you cross reference the Flaminias bearing number with either or/both Fulvia/Flavia?


P

Theres an opportunity Richard!!! Think of the pleasure....of making your own....................but surely someone has done so already?!

:)


P

Fulvia/Flavia bearings are different I think

Richard
Re the Fulvia and Flavia bearings, having fitted both recently, I am fairly certain that they are the same size, at least in the S2 Fulvia I am restoring and the Flavia Sport.

The oil filter no. for a Fram is CH801PL. If you struggle to find them, I bought a box of them last year and could send one up to you. A spin-off oil filter and conversion plate is available from two suppliers.

Re the rear brakes, the calipers can be removed by working partly through the access hole in the boot and from underneath. I have machined down a 17mm socket on a quarter drive. With this you can get the top bolt out through the boot.

Re the wheel bearing, I obtained a set of tools (home made by an engineer), for doing replacing the bearing. It can be done with the axle on the car. As part of the kit consists of a steel wheel with two pieces of angle iron welded to the rim to act as a foot, the weight of the car can then be placed on this structure, allowing you to undo the locking ring. Unfortunately the person who made the tooling and had experience using it, died a couple of years ago and I have yet to use it myself.
The only new wheel bearings available at present are being manufactured in the USA, and being sold by a person in Holland.....and you are right about the price £500 a pair. I haven't bought any and don't intend to. There has to be another source somewhere. I am actively looking at present and will let you know if I have any success.

Hope this all helps.

Best wishes

Dave

David, are the Flaminia and Aurelia bearing designs the same( but not the same bearing indeed)...ie seemingly one off designs not fitted to other cars anywhere? Isn't there an SKF reference/cross referencing of older bearings with newer bearing out there........will post up if I can find


P

Thanks Dave,yes those bearings pictured fit s1 and s2.I have found an oil filter element at Breens Maidstone for less than a fiver.Still need an air filter though.Thanks for the rear brake info.also your bearing tool kit sounds very useful.richard

I have now found the inspection hatch in the boot floor. Thanks again Dave.

Richard,
that's correct, I've already had a look through the tools for Andy (The Cern) to see if there was anything like for his Aurelia, unfortunately there wasn't.

Brian
8227 8)

I bought a couple of rear wheel bearings from Classic Lancia in Holland. Not cheap,But their stuff is always best quality and cheaper than the only other supplier that I could find (in Italy).  Also, after some investigation it appeared that it might be a cheaper option than having mine rebuilt.  The picture shows one with a Gamma front bearing alongside.  The Gamma uses a pretty large bearing - around about the same size as the Flava etc. - but the Flaminia bearing dwarfs it as you can see. 

I would expect the large rear wheel bearings for Flaminia to be similar if not the same as for Aurelia - they are much bigger than for Flavia or Fulvia. The problem of finding replacements for these was a subject in September, under "A B20 Story", when I made the post below. I am sure there must still be bearing rebuild specialists out there somewhere. Perhaps commercial vehicle parts machinists/ suppliers?

Colin

Re: A B20 Story

Just over 20 years ago when I needed such a bearing they were completely unobtainable as new items from all the usual stockists. I was lucky and was able to buy a new/unused RIV one (from Tim Burrett I think). The alternative then was to have an old bearing rebuilt with freshly ground grooves and larger balls. My local bearing supplier (sadly now closed down) could have had this done for about the same price as the unobtainable new one. This might still be an option if you can find a good old fashioned supplier.

Colin

As per Richards request.....

Tried to upload SKF bearing list but too big, plus my resizer won't accommodate a PDF file...anyone help?


P

This is Brian Longs, from Australia, VL Aurelia article...am sure its equally applicable.....with thanks to Brian!


P

Richard you seem to have hit a nerve there with your bearing challenge! Any mere mortals I spoke to about bearing replacement suggested it was a challenging job. If I were you I would consider perhaps swopping out as much of the suspension and drivetrain as necessary to replace the bearing and hub on the car with those from the spare rear end I gave you - that is why I drove all the way to Scotland for it and then sold it to you with the car. This would seem to be an ideal opportunity to refurb the rear brakes too since you can have the whole spare rig overhauled and ready to go in without having the car hors de combat for weeks (and possibly months if you get into difficulty en route). Having said that, the cause of a "bearing" noise on a '04 Golf I worked on last weekend turned out to be just a stuck rear brake caliper - not locked on but yet not quite fully disengaging the pads from the discs.

Indeed Alan.....a proper diagnosis is required before embarking on un-necessary expenditure.

I had a similar issue, turned out the actual wheel bearing housing/sleeve had failed...still had to replace bearing though as it was integral to the whole hub!


P

I should put a few miles on before anything else. Seatbelts to be fitted also.In the correspondance which came with the car there is mention of mounting points "in the upper rear panel". I can't see any ! Advice welcome once again. Richard

hi John,thanks for the offer of the rebuild company details. I assume the Kurtis is an oval racer. richard

Discs now machined

Lovely. You would think they might clean up the other surfaces too while they were at it!

As there was no charge from the machine shop I will be happy to clean the other surfaces myself. I understand the discs had developed particularly hard surfaces being cast iron. richard

Yes - and it's now on its way to the U.K.
4.7 litre V8 and weighing about 1400 pounds - it should go like the clappers!

 In 2006, the bearing rebuilding firm made an excellent job of the complicated bearing which holds the Lambda pinion in place. They are:- 

H B Precision Engineers Ltd., Riverside Works, Honley, Holmfirth, Huddersfield, HD9 6PQ

Tel:- 01484 665 116, E-mail:- sales@hb-bearings.com

Website:- www.hb-bearings.com 

Regards, John

Thanks John. Back to the question of seat belts,there were no mounting points so some have been made and belts fitted

Front hubs reunited with discs, ready to be refitted

A few small jobs done recently. I have installed an ammeter under the dash to monitor the charging system and installed a rear fog lamp. The fog lamp is operated by a temporary switch in the cigar lighter apperture. When I find a Flaminia PF wiper switch I will use that instead (with a remote warning lamp) which should suit the dash better. Something else I might change is the fuel filter. In it's place I woulld like to try a combined filter/pressure regulator(with glass bowl) as fitted to some other Flaminia models along with an electric fuel pump for primig. One other thing I have done is route the engine breather pipes to a catch tank rather than into the airfilter housing.

I have now found a switch from my jumble of spares. By good fortune the knob of the now spare lighter has the same thread. So will need to install a fog lamp warning lamp somewhere next.

Richard, I must go back to the start of your 14 page thread and work through it....:)


P

I would like to replace the rear discs soon, with the pair which I have had machined. Can anyone tell me if this job can be done with the tranaxle in situ? Best Regards Rchard

Existing rear discs still in service, but new brake pipes fitted at rear, and brake piston assemblies stripped, cleaned and refitted

Have you left some fingers behind?? :D

Very funny......just noticed that......:)


P

Nice work Fridders. Looking forward to meeting your car in the flesh again sometime. Are you ready to come to an Irish rally yet?

http://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6046.0 (http://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6046.0)

Thanks for the invite, but will probably only be able to  go to local Brands Hatch and the Pininfarina event for now. Hopefully those fingers are still attached to their owner!

Hi Richard, when we met on Saturday you asked me to post some pics of my convertible.  I took it out today for its first long drive since I fitted the electronic ignition and it was a delight.  The engine now pulls much more smoothly from low revs making the car feel easier to drive.  Also when hot the slight tendency to uneven running at low speed is gone.  Anyway here are the pics -

And just a couple more, the first shows the Frenos Iruna brake servo - which is excellent.  Also you can see how the distributor hides under the air box making point adjustment a real pain, which was my main reason for going to the electronic ignition. 

Charles, that looks absolutely wonderful, I am not surprised you are enjoying it so much.

I will definitely consider electronic ignition on the B20, but it must be reversible !!  I had a Pirhana system on a Volvo a few decades ago and it was excellent.

                           Andy
                       

Lovely Charles, glad it's going well! My PF smoothed out once I adjusted the idle mixture. The idle circuit has influence up to 3000 rpm it seems. Also have fitted a Facet fuel pump today, and will fit a fuel pressure regulator later this week.

Not a Malpassi, but donated by a friend. Richard

PF Insurance time once again, how does 120 quid sound?

............in a word...............robbed....;)


P

Not due to be 'robbed' until the day after tomorrow, so what is the 'going rate'? 80 nicker? 5K car few hundred miles a year? May increase 'agreed value'? Garaged etc? Richard

My Alfa coupe , 3k miles, value £8K, with breakdown £83


P

Hagerty's with 2000 miles £87, includes breakdown & Recovery,  90 days European Cover also including breakdown and recovery; because of the Knights Rally I've upped mine to 5000 miles this year, the maximum mileage per annum they will cover, which bumps it up to £132.

Brian
8227 8)

Quote now revised  to 90 something pounds (CN)

Insurance and fuel delivery now sorted, so the next job should be tyres. With the existing 175 400s not readily available, 165 400s perhaps. A terrific sound accompanied the last knockings of this one, and I suspect awoke sleepy Hadlow whilst en route to Honnington Italian Day

No photo on that post Richard...least not for me, reload?


P

I get the photo.

Can see it now...just how old is/was that tyre Richard??!!


P

Out of warranty I suppose. Also, I found some stainless steel wipers amongst the jumble at Honnington

'Trico',one arm adjustable one not.

Thats a hefty failing Richard, hope you weren't travelling much above 30!!!


P

Slowing from 40 approaching a 30 zone

175 400 tyres don't seem to be available, so may have find a set of 165s. I have been given one+innertube today which is now mounted.Thanks to Bob.

Hi Richard. my car is fitted with 165-400s (which I thought was standard).  I had a puncture coming back from SpaItalia last year while doing about 80 on the Brussels - Dunkirk autoroute (I fitted the spare by the roadside - quite illegal but we didn't miss the ferry.)  The tyre was ruined, of course, but Longstone have them in stock and a new one quickly arrived.  My local tyre fitters told me that driving on motorways with tubed tyres is no longer recommended - because of the blowout problem. Tubeless rims are available for Flaminias from various sources but always pretty pricey.  Is it not possible to convert tubed rims by enlarging the valve hole?  Has anyone tried it?   

You’ve scared me, I regularly travel at 80 / 90 mph along long stretches of motorways. I did think of converting but unless all 5 tyres go at the same time (that would be a feat) it wouldn’t be worth it.

Blowout problem? ???

To me this is nonsense!

Fit new tyres (new, not from some shelf, or from the back garden) regularly, when you fit new tyres change also the tubes (no skimping on a few quid!), check your pressures regularly, and you are fine.

I have never ever had a blown tyre with a tube (in the last 30 years)!
The only time a tyre burst on the motorway at speed was on my wife's car, because of too low tyre pressure - and that tyre was tubeless!

However the Flaminia Coupe is a very heavy car, and I can imagine  that a marginal (worn, old, ....) 165-400 Michelin X has difficulties to cope with all that weight.

I agree, but I think that the point is that if tubed tyres do get a puncture (however unlikely), they deflate in seconds whereas tubeless tyres tend to deflate slowly (sometimes very slowly) so that the alert driver can sense the problem and pull off the road before the tyre is completely flat.

James (Chugga), is there an official industry view on this situation? Especially use of tubed tyres at speed on motorways and also, modifying tubed tyre wheels to accept tubeless tyres.

I quite understand if you feel that it is not appropriate to comment on these matters in  an open forum such as this.

                                       Andy

ALL tyre manufacturers state a 5yr life span on any tyre, if a police vehicle comes in any tyres regardless of tread depth MUST be scrapped if approaching 5yrs old, caravan insurance companies will now not insure said trailers with tyres over 5yrs old, gig problem that people don't take into concideration with tyres is RUST!!!! as the rubber cracks or is punctured water can get into the steel cables of the casing and cause rust, rusty wire breaks up hey presto blow out, rubber has also come along way in the last 10 yrs, even though a 165 400 Michelin x looks the same as always its not, the rubber compound is much softer to give better breaking and road holding, also as rubber gets old it gets hard which means less grip, I have a brand new set of 175hr14's Michelin xas's which came with my HF, these will never be used even though they are brand new to look at, rubber does not get better with age , something to make you think is that the footprint of an average modernday tyre is about the size of your palm, so when your cruising at 60 70 80 mph just think that's ALL that's keeping you on the road, my argument is a set of tyres is cheaper than the value of your car or life so hense I wont mess with them, the risks of failure far out way the benefits (if there are any) of using old or s/h tyres, I could bang on all day about old and partworn tyres but recently we have visited MIRA and done extensive testing on these sorts of tyres, im proud to say that we are in partnership with goodyear Dunlop   who always keep us very aware of these risks, at mira  it was also demonstrated the real difference between a quality brand and a budget tyre, this was also alarming!! if anyone is interested I can see if I can find the links to the mira tests and post them

also to answer the question about tubed and tubless tyres, yes a tube tyre will go down quicker if puctured however a tube type tyre is smooth on the inside where as a tubless has reinforcing ribs inside, what I have seen in the past is tubless tyres tubed and this chaffs the tube causing a blow out, also there are 2 different grades of tube, cheap chinese or Michelin , Michelin seem to be twice the thickness but are also twice the price however in reality would probably last 4 times aslong as they don't chaff like cheap tubes, sorry to be an anorack  ;)

Thanks James.

MOT time again! But  'Service brake efficiency is below requirements' -two or three clicks on the rachet, holds on a slope, actuator arms at correct angle, discs + pads reasonable. Are uniform rules applied to all vehicles regardless of age/design? A charming new test man but not familiar with older cars? Any MOT people here? Have ordered 4 new tyres+tubes for fitting to spare rims. £145+VAT

Sounds like the tester is inexperienced with older cars or just being a jobs worth. Whilst uniform rules are just that and are applied to all cars, in my experience considerable latitude is given by test people I have used allowing for the fact these are older vehicles. Your hand brake sounds fine! - if you want the number of a friendlier test station, PM me Richard.

Thanks. Is there a specific reading reqd when 'on the rollers'? also a reading for the hydraulic brakes?

Hi, I haven't tested for about 10 years now but, the first thing they would need is the weight of the car to work out the braking measurements. From memory it used to be 25% of the weight of the car on the handbrake test. so if they don't know the weight of the car how do they know what the readings should be ???. I can safely say that the Flaminia will not be on there brake weight chart. Good luck

Thank you Roger, I have to go back anyhow, as the main beam stopped working, there is a front brake hose 'excessively chafed', which I will look for later (3 new hoses) on the shelf, steering lock stop 'incorrectly adjusted'. Measurements -RBT Service Brake Efficiency: 33% PBT Park Brake Efficiency: N/A

I have now asked how the weight of the car was established for the purpose of the brake test. A guess. Anyhow four stripped rims ready for blast cleaning, and paint mixed for when they return

Swift work, thanks to Chris 07714 266 627

Top coat. One outer trim fastener still to be removed I see.

One more little job to do now. Main beam has stopped working. Any ideas before I start? No main beam and no blue lamp on dash. All other lamps working. Relay?

You should hear the relay "click" when you select main beam.  So, if it's "clicking" the fault is after the relay, if it's not "clicking" then it's the relay, the stalk switch or the fuse - possibly (I hate car electrics)!

The relay is clicking. I will check relay contacts.

As things turned out the dashboard 'pull switch' was not supplying the relay contacts with power so although switching, no 12v to going onwards to the lamps. Brass contacts in switch now cleaned and passing current.

I called in to see Richard on tuesday and get a good windscreen for "Fay", along with a spare drive shaft joint and a water pump, so while there I had my first look at his Flaminia PF, what an impressive car, and coming along well, there's still a lot for him to do to make it concours, but I like it as it is!
I also took him his trophy that was awarded at the AGM that I collected on his behalf.

Brian
8227 8)

Thanks Brian, only news is that the Michelin tyres which I have ordered are delayed.

The windscreen wiper mechanism had a bush missing, resulting in sloppy operation due to excessive play. I have made, inserted and silver soldered into position using  a recycled brass nut, suitably drilled. Next job is to clean up a pair of front suspension assemblies.

Spare suspension assemblies have provided a bottom ball joint now fitted to the car. Having split the joint, replacement involved removing the front section of the wishbone. I am grateful for the help with that job! New tyres now fitted. The workshop manual  recommends higher pressure at the rear, compared with the front. Bearing in mind these are 165s rather than 175s on a PF, can anyone advise on pressure values. The tread seems to have a generous contact patch, and the sidewalls seem compliant (40 PSI)

Looks great !

All those castle-ated nuts and split pins .... I know the feeling

Thanks, the new tyres are different to modern ones in as much the tread is quite narrow in comparison with the overall width including the sidewalls

There has been a negative pulse (one in three)from one of the two tailpipes, which I thought maybe be a symptom of an exhaust valve not seating. Thankfully on this occassion the fault turned out to be a deteriorated servo hose.

The next job I am thinking about is the starter motor servicing. Sometimes there is just the sound of the solenoid 'clicking'. Looking at the solenoid, I can't see a way of cleaning the contacts, as it seems to be crimped together. Works fine on the bench with a direct electrical feed, so I am also considering fitting a starter button under the dash perhaps. Any ideas re the solenoid? I have been quoted £245 + for a new solenoid.  

Under the dash do you mean a hidden security switch?  That doesn't guard against a bump start.  Does it have an electric fuel pump?  I always liked the idea of "them" getting it started but not getting very far.

The other spot for a starter button - in terms of a button to start the engine - is under the bonnet to help with maintenance.

As for a refurb I wouldn't expect you to be defeated by mere crimps - but do understand it takes a lot of courage without another one on the shelf...as for the symptoms I have a similar problem on the Strada.  It clicks, I take it off and its fine on the bench.  I put it back and it goes a couple of times then back to square one.  I've yet to investigate further/deeper.

David

So I am not alone with clicking and being back at square one. Not so much a security switch, but a new switch and wiring to illiminate any existing poor connections or contacts  which may be contributing to situation.

I have a "hot wire" and still the same behaviour.  It sounds like its a "low current/high current" thing...and due to age and lack of use...

David

Over a year since the last post!! Well that soon passed, as has the total period of ownership(nearly four years). Anyhow the "new" cork fuel float has sunk. So this time I have made a copper float.

I guess you are still using the solenoid!!??

Richard - somehow I've missed this whole thread and have just read it. It was only recently I realised you had a Flaminia. Gorgeous cars and well worth the effort you've put in.

.              Still the same solenoid. I must assess that. One thing which has improved is the cold start device, when set correctly. Something else I am keeping an eye on is the ammeter, which wasn't showing a charge earlier this week.

Battery not charging. In the event of a faulty dynamo, would an Aurelia dynamo be a suitable replacement, as I see there is one for sale in VL? Advice very welcome.

I have now connected 12v to the dynamo and it spins like an electric motor, and am now wondering how to test the voltage regulator? If of interest 'The Morris Minor Centre' in West Malling sell these for £25

Regulator now tested, and set using the screws. The manufacturers info sheet was misleading oddly enough. I have been offered some help to replace a rear wheel bearing, and am wondering if anyone knows of an available hub tool. Help appreciated.

Richard

I have just got my set of tooling back so you would be welcome to borrow it if you want to. I'm in North Leicestershire.

Best wishes

Dave Gee

Many thanks Dave, I will send you an Email. Very generous of you to offer.

With Dave's generous help with special tools, one bearing removed from spare De Dion tube

Makes Fulvia wheel bearings look simple ....

That's a heavy bit of kit. Did it undo fairly easily with that much leverage or was it still a struggle?

Frank T

Unfortunately there was not a third person to photpograph the two of us hanging on the levers! Will have a go at the remaining bearing at the other end today.

Been there done that, how to be continually frustrated for hours on end..........


P

Hello Frank, any tips on fitting the liberated bearing to the car? One thought which has been brought to my attention, is the question of if the inboard locknut was of smaller outside diameter, the (attached photographed) assembly could be removed without disturbing the inboard lockring. Looking at it, the ring could be turned down and new slots milled, to match a new tool. Any ideas welcome before Monday's visit to the workshop. A tricky job to try to solve.

Richard, its Storm Frank answering ....... ;D

We've yet to refit, am chasing up body man tomorrow and over next few weeks, then hoping to get back to mechanical bits and bobs in spring, so no other advice/experience to offer/compare.


P

Richard, Are you coming to the Kent/Sussex New Year's Day bash this year? If you are and come back to New Barn I have two boxes full of old Lancia tools (I have no idea what they fit) and there maybe something that may be of help to you.

Robin.

Hello Robin, we are booked for the lunch. A year gone by again! One item of interest is of course the sedan, what a good runner, but I just haven't the space! Tools sound interesting, looking forward to seeing you and everybody. Richard

This old bearing is now replaced.

Keep up the good work Richard. I have stripped a berlina of all its' major components but haven't actually delved inside any of them so your reports are of great interest. Hopefully 2016 may be the year to start some serious work but keeping the Y10 on the road and getting the Dedra out of the way are the first priorities.

Thanks Frank, hope your 2016 Lancia work goes well. I myself can only get these things done with the kind help of others. Not sure how much the bearing job would cost at a specialist workshop.

Out of curiosity (as I need to do a similar job on a Flavia soon) how do you get the correct torque settings when re-tightening the bearing retainer "nut" with the special tool? Or is it no more scientific than getting a fat mate to hang off the end of a suitably long piece of scaffolding?

A year gone by already!! For Flavia (in Mkg) 30 front and 20 rear? (From consortium 'torque settings' list. Not sure why the difference front and rear.

I have not seen the style of airfilter on p110, but am reminded as I look at it of the howler in this roadtest on p111;  "Suspension remains unchanged from the Aurelia.  Coil springs and wishbones support the front end...."  Oops.

I would like to fit the correct windscreen wipers. Can anyone here tell me the correct make and length. And if anyone has a pair spare, perhaps I could buy them. Richard 07957292127

Hopefully the wipers currently for sale on this forum will be OK

This servo is available again through S-V-C, although in an updated form. I just received it and it's at the mechanics'. It seems obvious, but can you confirm that the forward cylinder (to the front of the car) is for the front brake circuit?
Edit: I Just heard from supplier- they say either side can go to either circuit.

Can anyone here identify this Flaminia trim part from my store? Advice welcome

I've no idea - but I'll take a punt....

Does that circular 'bulge' cover the mounting on the floor for the chassis leg perhaps?

.        I will have a look next time I am at the garage. In the meantime I have been given a half hide to repair the drivers seat. The passenger seat has been restitched and now needs some extra padding

Quite a good colour match and dyed all the way through.

.       Refitting the passenger front seat squab has revealed the mystery trim item to be a cover for the drivers seat lower rear area

Driver's squab now reupholstered. A good qualit job, and swift return

Lovely work Richard.

Thanks William. The next job is to improve the smokey exhaust. Does anyone here know if the pistons can be withdrawn from the bottom end without fouling the crankshaft? I would like to inspect the oil control rings. Compression is equal and good, so oil rings or valve guides perhaps?

Is your exhaust smokey on start up with choke or all of the time with choke off ?
Black smoke or blue ?
Is it worse under fierce acceleration ( seen in the rear view mirror ) ?

Black/grey mist all of the time and black/grey smoke when under load, ie when pulling away going uphill

Rings!

Yes, looks that way but are you 100% sure that your choke is fully in and you're driving
off choke ?
I wouldn't necessarily rely on the warning light. The cable has a long way to go
in a Flaminia and mine proved troublesome until it was changed.

The choke has to be manually returned at the carburettor to be fully off. If not the plugs get terminally sooty. So to the rings problem.

In the meantime I have salvaged some leather (from a discarded sofa) to use for upholstery.

You can get a lot of good leather from sofas people are chucking out.

The under bonnet material was past it's best so I have replaced the soft material with rigid material

I have stripped some parts to be fitted to a rebuilt engine. The thermostat housing was still watertight despite the corrosion, as there was still enough material for the top hose to seal. The underside of the inlet manifold has drain pipes leading from the inlet tracts. What are these for I wonder?

Inlet manifod photos

Is it a fuel drain?

correct as a follow on from Aurelia design....

 I now understand the pipes are to drain petrol in the event of flooding. And it would be a good idea to extend the pipe to avoid petrol dripping near to hot exhaust pipes!

Similar on the Appia...I think a length of rubber tube was originally connected to take the excess fuel away from the engine compartment...I have always wondered what happens to the mixture if you close off this drain.
Clarkey

Its not just for flooding - but percolation. The heat from the engine could make the gas boil out if one stopped for a while on a very hot day. Had this problem on a 3C Flaminia many years ago in the desert of southwest USA, led to backfire and fire.
The idea of the drains is fine, but they get clogged up and don't work and you have no way of really knowing.

Its likely less of a problem on a single carb but it also depends how thick is the spacer (heat isolator) from the carb to the intake manifold.

When I had the heads off my Aurelia B12 a year or so ago I was intrigued to see they were open pipes. The narrow bore and length means insufficient air flow back to the plenum (s) - single twin choke carb with drain on each bank...

I have now had the radiator and oil cooler refurbished with new cores

Looking forward to installing this engine soon, here seen on the engine builder's test rig. Also very attracted to the triple Weber set up, albeit more complicated to set up, I should resist but can't.

VIDEO PLEASE !!!!!!!

Nice finger chopper....

Tim, yes a very good finger chopper! David, my friend has the video, but the file size is too large to send to me? He said he will put it on a memory stick for now, and I shall keep it with the engine report sheet. I will post on this thread when I find a way to do so. Or I can lend the memory stick if of interest? Richard

He can put it on YouTube but "private" so it can't be searched but you can share a link.  Its what schools do. 

Could put it on youtube as a public film...for marketing for their business?

I will try the Youtube. Meanwhile engine now installed in car and running. Oil pump primed prior to startup by running the oil pump with a special tool attached to a drill





Recored radiator and oil cooler with new hoses fitted.Just need to connect the driveshaft coupling next. Many thanks to those who have helped

So thanks to Dave, Neale and Richard Carrison

Driveshaft now connected. A strange thing has happened. The brakes are free with the engine off, but start the engine and the brakes come on
without touching the brake pedal. Has anyone here ever heard of this happening? Richard

Sounds like a mischievous servo.....

Fulvia series 1 is very much a finger chopper,I've painted the the tips yellow so you can see them.
Brian
8227 8)

  Richard
   
    Disconnect The vacuum pipe as a test

  Dave

Thanks Dave, pipe disconnected and manifold take off blanked. I will test once my over rich at idle Solex is working as it should. Richard

I now have a new 12v ignition coil. There is one negative connection to the points and there are two wires on the positive connection. Does anyone here know where these wires should go to? The cotton covered wire goes to the ignition switch and the black wire goes through the bulkhead and into a loom. My question relates to the engine not stopping with the ignition switched off. Only  removing both positive coil wires together stops the engine immediately. So a feed from somewhere? (Only one positive wire on my diagram)Replies welcome. Richard

Hi Richard

Is one of those feeds to the rev counter? (Not familiar with your car, but my Beta uses this technique)

Peter

Good thinking, thanks Peter. I will try to check.

electronic rev-counter is on the points side. Maybe some kind of immobiliser. Lancia fitted a variety of aftermarket bolsters etc some with a key switch to kill the ignition, but I cannot see that working in your set up.

Thanks Tim, the symptoms are, turn off key and engine falters then dies after 10 seconds. Switch seems ok when checked for open circuit between 12v in and 12v out to coil (cotton braided wire) albeit with engine not running. Disconnect cotton braided wire from coil, same thing happens. Leave cotton braided wire connected to coil and disconnect mystery black wire, same thing happens. Disconnect both of these wires at the coil and engine stops of course. Richard

           Thanks for the advice. I now have what looks like the pictured servo assembly (from Car Builder Solutions). The instructions say one end is for front brakes and the other is for rear. Does anyone here know the reason for this? Advice welcome, Richard

A good source told me the triple carbs don,t work without the associated camshaft ? 👍

Thanks for the advice. What is the best method to select an appropriate camshaft for the various carburettors available? I have one camshaft in use, one in my spare engine and one in my store. Advice welcome. Richard

      Having contacted the supplier, they say there is a very small difference in the two ends, but in practice can be used either way around. Richard

   Thanks for the replies. In addition to the above, and as detailed in my 'Solex spares reqd' post, modified (to 1.2mm)air bleed jets in the PAAI40, have, so far, improved the slow running mixture according to my 'Colourtune' test reading.

Richard

74942

To answer my own question regarding the Aurelia rear exhaust pipes in the 'spares for sale' section, I have now fitted these by making the joints a little way back from the middle silencer boxes, and extending the outlets with short tailpipe tips, with exits angled slightly downwards. Thanks Chris. Richard

Well done Richard. I am just pleased they are being used.
Chris

I have a new 83 degree C coolant (Gates brand) thermostat to fit. It is the type mentioned elsewhere, and is generally available at motor factors for around £12. Richard

The thermostat is fitted and working. In response to my current VL 'spares wanted' ad, I am thrilled to have received an air filter box to match my DCNL Webers. Many thanks to Ian. So a clean up to look forward to, and a filter element to be found. Richard.

Now black. Thanks for the black crackle and black with silver sides Dave and Ian. Difficult to choose.

                                                                                             This month C&SC magazine mentions a case where a faulty starter solenoid causes an engine to continue running when the ignition key is turned off. Does anyone here know how this could happen? Richard

                                                         Still no wiser regarding camshaft selection, but now trying a 3c inlet manifold. The existing mounting studs on my spare engine will need to be different for this manifold.

Back to the interior, I have fitted these clips to stop seat belts slipping from occupants shoulders. The clips are gripped between the rigid trim and require no drilling of holes. Also found some bound carpet sample squares to use as footwell mats, @ three for a pound. Richard

I am trying to replace an inlet valve spring in situ. Does anyone know if there are special tools for this job, or has anyone had success with tools generally available. I have borrowed a tool, and have noticed that a stud is preventing full compression when tried in my first choice of direction and looking at the other springs, could be difficult with adjacent valvegear obstructing progress. I expect one of those impressive Lancia workshop wall racks containing special tools has something for these 'little jobs'. One tool I had in mind was the one which grips the base end of the spring and compresses the top. Looks simple enough! In the meantime I am using the tool pictured, which doesn't compress sufficiently to fit the collets. The valve seems to be closed and exposing the same length of stem as another closed valve. Hopefully the spring coils touching are not the limiting factor, so I will try a used spring from my spare engine and also see if I can measure compressed lengths in a vice. Free length matches spec in the service manual, which also mentions inner valve springs. I have one engine with, and one without inner valve springs. Can anyone confirm if some engines had double springs or if some had single, perhaps stronger springs? (I have used a handy magnet to pull the stem up)

I have heard feeding string into the plug hole and bringing the piston up to tdc keeping the valve in position…..

That sounds like a good idea lancialulu, compressed air seems popular as well. It does feel like the valve is coming to a positive 'stop', and rotates freely, without any noticable lengthwise movement. So hopefully fully seated and not bent. Also the temporary silver soldered threaded addition is a 'belt and braces', incase of something 'pinging off'. I have also covered any holes/ oilways with rag incase anything 'pinging off', achieves a 'hole in one'. That telescopic magnet does have limits when fishing out small parts, but has saved the day previously. Richard

Or nylon rope!

I have now removed number 5 inlet valve springs, inner and outer, from the spare engine. Looking at the top collars, one from each engine, one accomodates an inner spring and one doesn't. I must now fabricate a bracket to keep the spring compression tool as straight as possible  onto the valve stem. The tool worked  very well for spring removal, but needs to be more accurate to avoid the slight binding when refitting springs, a problem which can be seen more clearly when working on the spare engine, out of the car. Richard

Great to have a spare engine. 

You're like an astronaut practising a repair in a swimming pool before The Mission.

         

Now you mention it, I can see the similarity in the seven to one ratio of preparation time required for moon walks and my 'preparation time' to replace my valve spring. However, I have now made a bracket (prototype mark 1) to use with the spring compressor tool and available adjacent engine studs. Richard

The bracket is now fitted to the spare engine with some extra 'bolt together to allow adjustment' metalwork and actually fuctions as planned. An extra lever is required for full compression, a lever which will not fit in the engine compartment, so different lever required for next session. With things disassembled I can see that the two types of top collars have differing external shapes as well as differing grooves on their undersides. Also looking through the spare engine plug hole gives a view of the valve/ piston crown. No clever internal camera here, so only torchlight. Not so easy with engine in the car though.

Hi Richard
would this valve spring compressor tool do the job? If so I could loan it to you if you want to try it. I am based in Northampton.

Thank you very much for your kind offer John. Looks very useful. I will try my existing tool for the number 5 spring in the car, and if it works, and the valve/ piston proves still to be OK, I will have to decide whether or not to replace other springs, in which case I should be able to find the tool which you have suggested, locally. Thanks again for your idea. Richard

Richard

How are you stopping the valve from dropping into the cylinder?

With the piston at TDC, the valve rests on the crown. Also the valve stem seems to have a ring which prevents downward movement beyond the top of the guide. My telescopic magnet pulls the stem up, and by doing so, gives an indication of the stem running freely (or not). Worked when replacing the spring on the spare engine. Photo is that of the valve through the plug hole, not that clear I know. Richard

Not sure if the 'magnet method' works with the 'universal OHV tool' though. Richard

Collets now fitted to the engine which is in the car. I have found the associated pushrod is no longer straight, so I must replace that prior to refitting the rockers.

Replacement pushrod now fitted, and tappets adjusted. I have now run the engine and driven the car again. Richard

Are those nyloc nuts?

Yes, existing nyloc nuts refitted at the moment. The insert being an example of 'single use plastic', to use the popular phrase. Also I have found the tappet screws which do not have their locking nuts tightened in the photo, have just enough thread to maintain recommended clearances. Many thanks to Messrs Gee, Trigwell and Ricketts, for
sending pushrods, Colourtune kit and distributor/ shaft, all received this week. Richard

Re holding valves up while springs are changed.

I know nothing of Flaminias but had a similar problem when working on my 1925 Salmson which has two overhead camshafts and inclined valves in hemispherical combustion chambers. Going by the photo posted yesterday I think my solution might work for the Flaminia.

I made a hook from 3mm wire which goes through an insert which screws into the plug hole The drilling for the wire is eccentric to the plug bush so that when turned   inwards the hook can go into the combustion chamber as the plug bush is screwed but when turned through 180 degrees projects out from the bush enough to catch under the rim of the valve. A spring on the shank of the rod holds the valve up while the cotters and spring are removed. Clearance for the valve spring compressing tool was tricky but do-able.

The Salmson being of relatively low compression has too much space above the piston crown for the rope trick to work.

Mike Clark

Like this:-

Thank you Mike, I will work on that idea. Which spring compressor do you find works best? The tool suggested earlier in this thread looks useful, but apart from adjacent valvegear and casting clearances, the space available between the new spring coils, when compressed, is quite limited. Richard

I made a lever similar to yours, using the 4 studs which hold the cambox down as the fulcram. Lift the lever to compress the spring and hold it up with a wood block. The Salmson springs although double are not very strong.

Mike Clark

Not much room for my long lever, so used a jack plus vertical extension from below and attached to my short lever. Richard

Prompted by the carburettor thread, I have now seen that the manual lists two special tools for valve spring replacement without removing the cylinder heads. Where could these be found as a pattern I wonder? Richard

Back on the road! Should give another few thousand miles service now. Back in the real world I am happy to chug up the road and around my test route with what hopefully is a slightly weak main circuit mixture. Slight choke activation improves pickup. Not that I would like to return to the sooted plugs situation on a frequent basis. Plugs are now Bosch and air bleeds still enlarged as before. A new carburettor is the advice from both my local experts and also those of Chris O'Connor , if Chris doesn't mind me saying.
Back at base I have used a home made oil pump drive, copied from Dave Gee, to circulate some oil in the spare engine.

Did you get an answer to your valve supporting tool for valve spring replacement without removing the head? I think something similar was being discussed in an Augusta thread which might work. It was a rod with the end bent at 90 degrees which just fitted through the spark plug hole then the end swung round to hold the valve up from underneath. The rod has some form of sliding clamp outside the cylinder head to stop it all dropping down the bore while you work on the valve spring.

Nothing so far Frank, but thanks for asking. Just need two spare main jets to experiment with now. Richard

On the subject of jets, I have run a drill bit through my mains (light finger and thumb pressure only).
Also the choke lever stops now where it should, as I have moved the washer, which was previously on the body side of the lever, thus causing the lever to miss it's stop.
I notice there is a screw in the picture which doesn't seem fully seated.  
Should secure the venturi? Richard

Just to confirm, the screw does secure the venruri, and acts directly on the casting which has no locating indentation/ hole.
A short test round the block reveals smooth idle, ok 2000 rpm range, but lean feeling transition.  Minimal choke improves things, but this or a richer idle mixture brings me back to the curse of sooty plugs.
Still persevering but Mr O'Connor's carburretor thread will surely hold the answer.
Richard  

Coincidentally a Colortune arrived in the post today. I would like to try more than one at a time as a comparison between cylinders.
It seems there are several 14mm thread lengths available.
I haven't seen one of the accompanying charts for a long time, maybe this should go on the garage wall. Only a guide I expect, as the engine won't be under any significant load. Richard

I am very interested to hear how useful you find this Richard.

Incidentally here is a page from the manual. Does anyone know why the accelerator pump injectors  should be modified in this way? Richard

Colourtune useful only at idle so far.
Mr Creasey prefers the larger type for better visibility on a flat four, but I find I can see better with the modern 14mm Colourtune  'windows' on my V6.
Made a column sightglass for float level today.
Also found the more professional looking item on a Datsun forum.
Richard

Richard, Looks like it does the job.

On your fuel level sight glass device, what is the brass bit from?
Off-hand can you remember the thread size in the carb body hole?

Thanks

Chris

I have made another one now.
The drain hole plug also contains a jet for the accelerator pump I think, so that must not be damaged during modification.
 I have tapped a 1/8 BSP thread.
The brass bit is a union available at a plumbers I expect.
The drain tap is now abandonded in the next prototype, as it represents a potential leak.
This device is good for checking fuel level, a marker for which is now on the outside of the fuel bowl in white paint.
The engine will not run properly as the removed plug and jet are not in use.
Regardless of all other float setting information we are measuring the actual fuel level now.

My current design can be used with the engine running.
I have silver-soldered a connector to the original plug and drilled a hole through both.

To test the level turn on an electric fuel pump. I have used gasket paper between the body and lid to adjust the level.

To test the fuel inlet valve, turn on an electric fuel pump.
In my case the fuel rose to the expected level, then slowly rose further, indicating fuel leaking -by. Reducing fuel pressure with the pressure regulator from 3.1psi to 2.8 psi seems to have cured this at the moment.

Now run the engine, and the level can be observed at various rpm.

Now that I don't have a drain plug, l use a syringe down the tube to drain the bowl before removing the device.

My next version will incorporate a purpose made sight glass is used in the HVAC industry. Just waiting for the correct 90 degree connector

Apart from float level, my other job today was to attend to a noisey tappet. This turned out to be another bent pushrod.  No1 inlet.
I blamed the previous bent pushrod No5 inlet on the broken valve spring.
No problem, one spare pushrod left on the shelf. Pushrod fitted but no tappet clearance. Removed replacement pushrod to find it is longer than the original. So borrowed another from my spare engine, which also turned out to be too long. I thought there might be a chance of swapping the rocker gear from the spare engine to match but the rocker arms are different lengths.
So straightened the original pushrod. The aluminium part of the longer pushrod could be shortened. Heads skimmed so should pushrods be shortened to suit?

Richard

The next incarnation. Bottom drain idea reinstated with internal thread for removable tap, with external thread for cap with copper seal.Vertical thread to accommodate sight glass.
Richard

Now installed with the sight glass.
Level OK, but lower with engine running.
I think I need a constant good level for a reasonable mixture.
Sealed with copper gaskets to avoid flexible gaskets deteriorating. Also a tiny hole in the top to avoid air lock affecting the sight glass level.
Richard

...am now expecting a gopro mount.

...or a cinecamera.

Level reasonable now with engine running, but only with 5psi fuel pressure measured in the engine bay and much reduced fuel return restrictor orifice.

As a precaution against the fuel level becoming too high and overflowing to somewhere it shouldn't, in the event of the inlet valve letting by, I have installed a fuel cut off switch to cut off the electic fuel pump if engine oil pressure drops below 12psi. For example if stalled.
This is overridden by a spring loaded return manual switch for priming, which has taken the place of the previous on/off switch.
Reassuring to hear the pump stop shortly after turning the ignition switch off as oil pressure falls, and not be concerned about leaving the pump on in error, or pump accidentally being switched on.
So the sight glass is very informative.

So fuel system improved so  no more work to do!
Just a tidy up around the coil.
But wait, the coil wire has shorted.
So now no power to various circuits. Fuse box ok. Auxiliary ammeter blown fuse replaced. So I have installed a temporary fused supply to the ignition switch, and everything working apart from fuel guage and ammeter.
Checking the voltage regulator shows 30 volts and a couple of amps output.
So dynamo ok, battery disconnected prior to further investigation.
May be coincidence but the engine starts and stops with no 'running on' now.

Test meter faulty. Correct readings 2amps and 14v. Fuel and coolant temperature gauges not working so mechanical temperature gauge and fuel dipstick in use. Auxiliary ammeter working with a swap of wires.
Richard


75012 mileage

In the Aurelia, the 2 liter engine has different length pushrods than the 2.5L version - something not widely known. They are about ⅛" different, but its too much to take out with the tappet screw. Perhaps the 2.5L and 2.8L Flaminias are different too...

Thankyou for mentioning that Geoffrey. 0.5mm difference in this case. I have one spare to shorten, and will try that.
I do need to keep a long set for my spare engine which has the different rockers. Both 2.5 litre capacity though, I think.
Richard

I never knew that Geoff. Are the B12 pushrods 2 litre length or 2.5? .....or different again?
Chris

No idea. We ran across that w only two or three engines. Maybe time to measure? I’ll take a look in the parts book.

To add to (my ) confusion, in the 1990's when good quality new spare parts were not readily available, I had a set of good used Flaminia cam followers ground down (they are slightly larger o/d than Aurelia) to use in a B20 engine as the cam followers I had recently bought new then were rubbish. The original can followers were, I think, 'cold cast'(?) whereas the new ones I had bought seemed quite soft on the face which runs on the camshaft.
And as their internal profile was different to that of Aurelia cam followers, I used a set of Flaminia pushrods reduced in length slightly. Quite a good solution I thought at the time but now I cant remember which engine it was!!!! Other than it went in a car straight away and ran well.
Chris
PS Todays new cam followers from bone fide sources seem to be fine

Aside from pushrods and back to carburettor mixture, I have this info.
Could anyone tell me if these are good figures please, which would give clean, tan coloured plugs?
I assume the top line has a slight misprint.

Richard

New tool for valve spring work with head in situ. Also the suggestion of a wire through the spark plug hole succeeded  in holding the valve up when tried on my spare engine.
I have made the fasteners large enough to avoid them falling down any oilways etc, marked them numerically for posotioning and also the brass part which fits the spring cap doesn't interfere if i use my magnet to retrieve collets which don't always locate fitst attempt. I thought light grey would be good for any part which needs to be seen if it has fallen into a dark area of the workspace.

Richard

Additional brackets

Richard

In situ

Richard

I have shortened a pushrod. Mild heat was enough to loosen the end from the tubular push rod, same method to refit the end once the rod had 0.5mm removed.
The damaged rod was not only bent but also cracked.
I would like to source alluminium tube to make some rods, if anyone knows of a supplier.
Also does anyone know the purpose of a tiny hole in each rod?

Fantasically, innovatively engineered and thought out tool  8)

I wonder if the hole is to relieve pressure due to temperature changes?
Mike Clark

Thanks Kevin, the tool can be configured to fit all valves on both heads. The U bolts fortunately have flats which assist in securing the cross bracket. The ally spacers are necessary for the perimeter frame to clear fasteners protruding beyond the rocker cover gasket face.

Richard

Could be Mike.
Anyhow three pushrods starting to crack now, but a visit to  Harris Performance Maidstone has led me to a retired engineer who is going to make some more for me.
Just wondering if expansion in length will be different if the material is different.

Richard

Richard

Aluminium expands more than steel but whether this is significant would depend on the length of the pushrod, and whether the cylinder block is cast steel or alloy.
Mike Clark

Thanks Mike, thinking on, it is probably the only the valve stem which lengthens significantly when hot. I was concerned about valve clearance reducing once the engine warms up.
  Regarding coil bind thanks for your comment that space between spring coils could be regarded as cummulative.
  Also it was suggested yesterday that the tiny holes in the rods are to ease pressure when the hard rod ends are installed.
  Another thing mentioned yesterday was using solid steel pushrods. These would not be sacrificial in the event of something else failing though.
  As it happens another secondhand push rod from elsewhere is also bent. Are these prone to bending slightly with service over time or a coincidence I wonder?

Richard

Love the valve-spring tool - Ingenious !

From what I believe the pushrods bend when the engine gets over revved, often on downshifts as no rev limiter can stop a gear being selcted too soon, unlike on acceleration where the revs can be mechanically or electronically limted.
That's often where engine damage comes in with racing anyway...same probably applies here.
There's a lot of inertia going on within the valvetrain, that rod moves in one direction then back again at tremendous speed whilst having to come to a dead stop in each direction, and it does it every 2 crank revelotions. So at 4,200 RPM it has to move back and forth 2,100 times a minute, or an incredible 35 times per second! That's the cam lobe pushing it up and the valve trying to resist and pushing back via its' spring, that's a harsh environment and a reason why direct cams above the valve will always be able to survive higher revs.

Thanks Kevin, new pushrods to try now

Richard

Thanks to Mr. Clark's post, I now have a similar valve tool to try, from the same source as the pushrods.   This tool has a moveable  ' handle ' which can be used as a pointer to align with the valve lifting rod. Handle secured with a grub screw. Also a thumbscrew to lock the rod into position.
  One pushrod fitted and 10 more ordered as spares.

Richard

Lovely job Richard - much posher than mine!!

Mike Clsrk

Thanks Mike, first class work from Alan Holley. Detailed work over and above what I expected and at a small fraction of commercial rates.

Richard

Nine more pushrods.
  Also a DIY tool for lock wire which I have tried on some  exhaust wrap.

  Richard

Tool

Neat!
Mike Clark

Thanks Mike. It obviously fits in a manual pinion drill.

Richard

Engine started first turn following the snowy conditions.
  But I now have a cracked exhaust downpipe. I have a spare pair to fit which Dave Gee kindly sent me last year.

  Richard

New down pipe in place. Had to cut the existing as it was stuck in the adjacent section. Only now, looking at the attached flash photo has a weld become apparent.

Downpipe now fitted. A drive round the test route planned now, but clutch pedal not depressing. Even following adjustment a fastener in the mechanism is fouling the new pipe very slightly, but only when the pedal is nearly 'to the floor'. So another 2mm required.
  Probably divine intervention, as whilst looking under the car, oil dripping , but only with the engine running.  Oil filter leaking, but thankfully a turn on the oil filter securing nut has stopped this.

I keep a spare fuel can in the boot, so thought it was time to keep it more secure with these straps.

  Richard

That’s a lovely strap solution! I will replicate that!

Thank you, I will improve the straps with some Chicago post screws. The shackles and eyes are from the very helpful Medway Slings, Strood, Kent.

  Richard

Four miles completed without any thing breaking.
 So I am preparing my Weber carburettors with a view to fitting them. The original banjo connections have larger ends than the 'barb' type and larger than the single and more modern banjo retrofitted. Quite a tight fit despite the fuel hose being correct size and lubrication . Are these larger sizes designed for a more flexible hose? Maybe the plastic green coloured type?
Also fitted a repaired thermostat housing.

  Richard

I remember this installation

Is that a Sport version? The banjo interconnecting fuel hoses look a snug fit, rather like my hoses. Does anyone know why only one of the carburettors have a cold start mechanism?

  Richard

It's a bit odd only one of the three carbs have chocke. I guess that it is mainly because it would be complicated to run the cable to all three.
On the other hand you should probably only use the chocke to get the engine started and not for running.
I have never used the chocke on my car (only used the cable connectected to the throttle for hand throttle when the pedal broke...)

The original Supersport also had only the choke on the middle carb. It worked just fine starting in cold (with snow, etc.). Not sure what the thinking was, past the obvious ("too much choke if all three carbs"), but it was no problem.

Thanks GG amd Kaha.
  Something I need to fabricate or purchase if anyone has a spare is a throttle cable bracket. (RHD)
  A photo or drawing to indicate dimensions and mounting points would be useful. Also I will incorporate a hand throttle using the (bottom rhs in the photo)spindle lever.

  Richard

Dry fitted the Webers and manifold. As expected the distributor cap height fouls the rear of the airbox by 12mm. I have a shorter distributor drive casting but not a matching drive shaft. So I can modify a spare long shaft or modify the rear of the air box. 
Also even the distributor retaining / adjuster clip is different for ease of access.

  Richard

Concerning myself unnecessarily with coolant potentially  getting into the inlet ports via a poor seal, I see the port faces are separated by the shape of the casting.

I have made a bracket for the linkage.

The seatbelts obtained via this forum are now fitted.
  Thanks to Bob H.

Not a bad idea!

Hmmm....where did you fit the top mounting, behind the rear seats?
Clarkey

Welded captivated nuts.

  Richard

This previously surplus air filter box now has previously surplus, and now adapted air filtration. Adaption of the box itself also, to accomodate the existing distributor height.
 I have used bowden cable fittings obtained from a cycle repairer and also the local 'Harris Performance Engineering' workshop.

  Richard

That's gonna sound awesome Richard, nothing so nice as a set of carbs gulping in the air.
I take it there is still space for the trumpets in that air filter set up? They make a hige difference to how it will run, and develop power. Longer for more torque, shorter for more power. But none means the air doesn't flow in properly and they can't function efficiently.
Great work, love following these tasks  8)

Thanks Kev, the induction trumpets supplied with these Webers are 50mm tall/ 38mm dia measured at the base. So should fit. Not sure what the optimum air gap between the trumpet mouths and the filter 'lid' steel pressing is, but I remember a Fulvia airbox with missing baffle was very unhappy at partial throttle openings.
  I would also like to know more about the triple throat Solex 3b type pictured in my Solex tuning book and elsewhere. Sometimes reviews are unfavourable , perhaps unfairly.
  Of course, although these are fixed jet carburettors, albeit with volume control adjustments x6, I have already received comments about 'in tune' and 'out of tune' and associated difficulties from the same experts who have in their repertoire of remedies,  'tow starting followed by the high speed thrash'.
  Soldered brass floats within, so will continue with low/nil ethonol Esso petrol from Maidstone area. There was a comment posted earlier within this forum thread which mentioned camshaft /carburettors mismatch, but no further information posted since. Would obviously be useful to know more about this unsuitability from anyone who knows more.
 
  Richard
 

My understanding and on my setup, there isn’t a great deal of space between the top of the trumpet and air box, and therefore i have seen aftermarket ‘subbie’ trumpets to get over this problem.

.
It should be noted that Lancia paid great attention to air box design. I have been told the pancake filter on Aurelias (so relevant to Flaminia) was a Helmholtz resonator tuned to 3 frequencies. Apparently you notice the (negative) difference when driving without that filter.

Very interesting, never knew that, I am far more of the old school of thought, with high flows and creating positive pressure around intakes. 

So some aftermarket foam type filter systems not so good in some ways, and lack the fire hazard protection of the steel box. Thinking  back to  a local Flaminia engine fire, this could be a useful fire extinguisher nozzle positioning

I have found a 0 to 100v dc voltmeter to fit adjacent to the voltage regulator.

  Richard

As I have been lent a dwell meter, I have put this to use. A good thing as the points gap was larger than my workshop manual specifies. Reset to 0.4mm. Thanks to Derek. I will obtain a dwell meter of my own.
  Also I have made a timing scale to use with my timing strobe.

Carpets have been collected with thanks, at the excellent LMC Greenham Common event from Martin.
  Now fitted, and one rear footwell mat still required.

  Richard

Thanks to Martin.

Until the standard door catches are reliable, these secondary 'Brighton' mechanisms will provide a 'belt and braces' solution, replacing the previous elastic straps. No, the car does not have sash- cord windows.

I have replace the plastic safety belt guides with these plated brass items.

A slightly different design