Lancia Motor Club

Now that it seems there is little chance of obtaining a new RHD Delta with the proper badges and registered in its proper name, I am returning my thoughts to importing a Thesis. I have spoken to Paul Baker regarding this as I believe he is the last club member to have gone down this route and he has kindly offered in helping me source the right car, however the biggest hurdle to overcome is getting it UK registered under the latest DVLA/VOSA etc stringent rules and regulations.

The rear fogs are not an issue as both sides on the Thesis have them, likewise with the headlamps should not be an issue as the beam direction can be switched in a straight forward manner, it's just the all km/h speedometer that requires calibration in mph.

Luckily I have spoken to Mark Robbins at Superveloce who has been extremely helpful and he has a man (family ties) on the case in Milan specifically tasked in switching a km/h speedo to a predominantly mph speedo. Mark was recently in Italy (he visits on a regular basis) for the Monza GP & San Marino Moto GP (nice work if you can get it) and looked into my Thesis import concerns whilst there. He thinks his man in Milan can resolve the speedo issue for about E150 and he can also access Thesis's (& other Lancia) through the trade for competitive money.

Upon confirmation that the speedo can be altered, I will be in a position to start looking in November for a late 2008/09 (or newer as there are some late registered cars) fully loaded 2.4 JTDm Emblema or LE car with lowish mileage (most have intergalactic miles) to be ready over Christmas. Mark reckons it should take 2-3 weeks from sourcing the right car to collecting it fully registered and UK compliant.

I will keep the forum informed of future developments.

Hi Paul.
Good to hear! Well done on the speedo issue hope it works out, if not you may consider an overlay (transparent) which may be done if you know someone decent with graphics, to be able to re-produce similar numerical font.
Let me know how you get on and if you need any help.
Cheers.
Paul.

Hi paiul, there is a Thesis for sale at the moment on Done Deal In ireland www.donedeal.ie its a 2006 2.4jtd with 170,000 miles in black, the asking price is €4750 . I am thinking of having a look.

Hi Paul,

The link will take you to the Modestine thread. Scroll down and you will see what we did to re-calibrate the Nivex petrol gauge. Apologies for the poor quality of the photos,  in the flesh the dial looks totally original.

http://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1239.195

Good luck,
Robin.

Dave, That looks like a good buy, however too many miles for me, I am looking at 50,000 absolute max plus I want a late model (latest badging) of particular specification & options. I will be using as a daily driver putting 25,000 miles plus per year on it before replacing in 2-3 years. Good luck with that one.

Robin, Thanks for the Modestine link, if I fail with my man in Milan then this route is a possibility.

Cheers,

Paul.

I have had no joy whatsoever in trtying to obtain a Thesis in Italy. Despite hundreds to choose from, all the late low mileage cars at realistic money have failed to deliver the goods, they are missing history (lease companies keeping hold of service books?), they are poorly presented and require scuffs and scratches repairing and servicing at extra cost, there seems to be reluctance at offering for export- even with Superveloces Italian contacts I am failing and time is running out fast.

Paul (Tipo38) what is the latest on your car? I would be interested to know about the problems with your wheels from the other thread, I believe you previously replaced three, is this an 18" Centenario issue or do all Thesis wheels have issues?

To all those in the know, Is a Thesis a good car to pile on the miles? there are hundreds for sale overseas with intergalactic mileage so it suggests they are and my Brera's done 55k miles no problem with the same engine, what about all those electronics too, are they reliable? is it wise to buy a used Thesis to use daily and add 25-30K miles per year for 2-3 years.

Hi Paull, can't comment on most of your questions (yet) but the wheels I suspect are to do with the polished finish - just like Themas, Dedras, Subarus and every other polished finish wheel, they look fabulous when new but unless you are anal about cleaning them, they will corrode quicker than a normal powder coat type finish. In saying that, all they need is a stone chip to break the lacquer or top finish and that is the start of it. Look great when new, rubbish for longevity.  The wheels on the 2004 one I have just bought are 2 perfect, 2 starting to bubble - but they are a normal powder finish and the 2 can be refurbished at reasonable cost. Refurbishing diamond finish is trickier and will need a specialist.

I would say there can't be an issue driving one and putting the miles on, as you say there are lots with huge kms on them. The chap I bought mine from advised Alfa dealers here are the only ones who have the full Lanciiaa diagnostic kit, regardless of what Fiat dealers, and any specialists up north said. Once he found this out, his local Alfa dealer dealt with any issues - mostly electrics (what a surprise).

Lindsay

Well I am on my way to importing a Thesis. Many thanks to Paul Baker and Roberto his Italian friend & Stratos owner who have helped me through this process to date and hopefully beyond.

It has been a struggle and at times non satisfying experience with many let downs over the last three months. Cars as we all know do not always live up to expectation especially when advertised at tempting prices. I have had Superveloce looking at cars for me and all the ones previously seen on AutoScout24, OOYYOO, Ebay.it and Autosupermarket.it have for one reason or another not come up to scratch. The ideal car I thought I had bagged was stolen from my grasp at the eleventh hour and I resigned myself to not ever owning one.

Anyway speaking to Paul over Christmas, we listed a number of vehicles to check out and Paul spoke to Roberto who did the business and eventually we came across this car.

The car is a 2009 Black Centenario 2.4JTDm, ex Petronas (Owned by Fiat) with 80K Km's on the clock with FSH (no expense spared).

I flew out to Turin last Saturday to be greeted by Roberto & the vendor in the car at the airport and then we went on a 25 mile test drive taking in all kinds of roads where the car drove beautifully and the vendor took it up to around 210kmh no trouble at all. Another mechanic friend of Robertos was going to check out the car -he works for Lancia and worked on the Thesis production line-but unfortunately could not make it due to his daughter being struck down with a mystery virus in the early hours.

I decided I had to have it so put down a 1000 Euro deposit on the priovision that the car is inspected early this week by the mechanic. If I get the thumbs up then we are into Phase two, the purchase and getting the car home. To be continued...........

Good Luck Paul, It looks fantastic so I hope the deal goes through and it lives up to expectations.
Brian
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Well done Paul. Excellent news. As a matter of interest, what will your annual road tax be for it?

2.4JTD emmissions 234g/km  Group L tax bracket = £435/annum

fantastic news Paul, what a gorgeous car, every luck with her!

Will I have to salute you when I see you in it :o ;)

I was thinking that too Roger! I bet Claire and the kids will love being chauffered around in it.

Paul, has Claire being practising a 'royal' wave yet !

Looks fantastic , hope everything works out.

Steve

Lovely car, the car tax is a bit steep...  but nice all the same, enjoy!

Excellent news Paul...looks the part....enjoy.


P

Thanks for all the compliments folks.

The next step is insurance which is a bit of a struggle at the moment. Some companies will cover the car on its VIN plate but only once on UK shores! I want to drive it back from Turin on temp Italian trade plates through France to the UK. Still awaiting response from FJames, however AFlux cannot help. Has anyone experienced this successfully or know of any companies who will cover a car pre UK?
Otherwise it looks like transportation companies or trailering myself.

Have you asked your current insurer of your every day car to give you temporary cover?

There is a web site that also offers daily or weekly insurance for this type of situation...not sure if they cover you for overseas though.


P

Hi P,

The Thesis will replace my everyday (Alfa Brera) car and yes I have asked them but unfortunately will not cover the Lancia as a daily driver in connection with my emploers business.

Hi Paul. Try Hagerty - they insured my Thesis and should do it on the VIN as a temporary measure.

Paul,

When I imported the Delta, I was with Direct Line.  They insured the car on the VIN until it was UK registered when I gave them the registration number.  I would imagine that they would able to do the same for you.  As the Thesis is not recognised by UK insurance companies, you will need to give them the UK equivalent car, which I would suggest is an Alfa 166.

Hope this helps!

Thanks Lindsay & Stuart,

I will try these options tomorrow.

No joy with Hegartys, they only deal with classics, not moderns as a main vehicle. I tried Direct Line online but no joy as the registration number is required and without it you cannot go any further. I will have to speak to them to take further.

Don't you love the intransigence of insurance companies? It's not like you are an 18year old wanting to insure an Impreza. The only folk I know who have done it have bought in Germany and they issue temporary transit plates which includes insurance. Obviously the Italian system is different and not quite so easy. Is it worth trying Lloyds as a general insurance company who supposedly take on anything? Ronnie Stuart whom I bought mine from had it insured on a everyday use basis through the LMC insurance lot (AON at the time, whoever they are now) but I understand they do not take on LHD cars now. Just did a quick Google search and plenty out there on the topic. Admiral shown as insuring on VIN (but then Flux and Direct Line are too). This lot - http://www.acorninsure.co.uk/car-insurance/chassis-number-insurance/    - would appear to know about it, so I think it is a case of taking a bit of time and you will find someone willing to do it.  I imagine you could well do without the £1k plus it would cost to get it trailered back.

Thanks Lindsay,

I have completed the Acorn quotation form, hopefully they will come up trumps.
I need to look further into the "passagio" that is required when transferring from the Italian plates to temp Italian trade plates as the vendor requires to know the exact route from Turin through France into the UK and these plates are only valid for three days which may suggest there is some kind of insurance cover here like the German system perhaps?

After all I pay 214E for the demolizione targhe (Plate removal from Italian system) and 134E for the passagio (transfer back to UK). Does this include insurance?

Anyone else used this process, can shed any light?

I have imported lots of cars, both from the USA and from Italy, and I have always had VIN insurance on them, but only when on British soil. I thought it wasn't possible to insure a car outside the UK like that, but I may be wrong, and I hope I am! I have always trailered (or shipped!) the cars as far as Britain, just in case, but Theses are Big Beasts, and you'd need a hefty towcar, so I hope you can do it. But Lindsay is Your Man, really, as he did my Kappa, which is a 'modern', whereas all the stuff I have ever brought in has been as old as the hills (newest = 1965), and it is MUCH easier if the car is over 10 years old. Good luck anyway, and if there is anything I can do to help, I will!

Insurance resolved, peace of mind (see insuring a Thesis thread), now its off to Torino early hours Saturday, drive back to Blighty Saturday/Sunday then two weeks getting modified for UK compliancy and hopefully registration by 18th February.

I'll report back on the trip next week. Ciao for now.

Great news Paul, have a good trip.

Brian
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 Car Collected yesterday from Beinasco (Torino) at 12.00hrs in deep snow and -10deg, driven up to Reims via Susa, Tunnel Frejus, Chambery, Lyon, Dijon & Troyes never getting above -6deg for overnight stay on one single cardboard export Italian plate.
Set off this morning at 08.00hrs same as yesterday (V Cold), went well until 40miles South of Calais when heavy snow almost made Autoroute undriveable, but we persevered and made it to Eurotunnel in one piece. It was very interesting handling a 1865kg front wheel drive automatic beast on 18" low profiles at times on the worst weekend in Europe so far this year but came out unscathed (unlike some others!).
Blighty wasn't much better particularly in Kent, however the further North we travelled the better it got. Made it to Castle Donnington for 15.30hrs where it will spend the next fortnight being prepared for ligitimate UK registration to VCA/IVA/DVLA standards at NCS Systems.
Just got used to it and now it's gone, a fantastic effortless car that's averaged 39mpg over 1521km in 15hrs of driving.
Big, big thanks to Paul Baker and Roberto Cassetta without whom this adventure would have been a non starter.

well done Paul,
You'd be hard pushed to get a better test of the`Thesis and it's capabilities, certainly sounds like you enjoyed it ;D

Brian
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 Yes Brian,

Thrown in the deep end springs to mind, overall a very good trip, sometimes apprehensive (and even a little scary), but totally worthwhile.

interestingly the only time we got pulled over was at British customs, no-one else battered an eye, even with the "dodgy" export plates, still at least our boys were doing their jobs.

Slight error in my fuel consumption figure for the trip, it wasn't 39mpg, it was only 36.97mpg but I suppose considering the conditions, it's not too bad.

Congrats Paul in getting this done, aint it always the way that something we all would regard as being relatively straightforward turns into an expedition to the South Pole and back with just a single pit pony and a tin of spam!

And nearly all of it to do with paperwork, re tape and endless ways of delaying you...........free trade zone my A****E!


P

But why did they pull you over....?

Think about it, you'd gone and done everything correctly, honest up-standing citizen etc.......

I'd like to think their finely tuned senses would mostly be pulling over the very suspicious or something not quite right about them types!!!!


P

P,

To be honest I thought with those dodgy export plates everyman & his dog would have pulled me over, but I reckon that the sub zero temperatures actually did me a favour- no-one wanted to get out of their nice warm huts & kiosks.

Well done Paul. It's been a bit of a trek to get it, so to speak, and  no doubt a nervous couple of weeks until it is registered. Hope you enjoy it once it's done and away from the snow!
Lindsay

Spoke to NCS Systems Limited who are complying the car to UK legislation, it has passed all tests with VCA, just completing the registration process, should be ready mid next week but cannot pick it up until the following week as I am off ski-ing!

thought you might have had enough ski-ing bringing it home ;) ;)

Roger, that was bob sleighing! - different sport, similar conditions except more grip on Rosignols than Pirellis.

don't know about you but the snow returned early evening, glad I took "Fay" out for a run in the dry earlier on as she hasn't been started for 2-3 weeks, now all safely tucked up in her airchamber, wish I had a Thesis in there as well ::)

Brian
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Roger.
You will have to practice the saluting as when I got mine you only used two fingers... :-)
Paul.

You were lucky Paul B, it could have been just the one  ;)

Collected car from SCS limited in Castle Donington yesterday, they did a fantastic job in turning the car around with VCA. Discreet LCD mph speedo fitted which reflects of LHS corner of windscreen, Headlamps corrected for RHD (included adjustment of self levelling system), couple of wheel scuffs rectified, personal plate fitted and 12 months tax (for £215.00).

Car drives great, but stops or certainly slows down traffic which can be annoying on Motorways when trying to filter into quicker lanes and the cars overtaking are slowing to your speed to take a look, but definately all worth while.

The whole importation process was daunting at times and I often wondered if all the hassle was worthwhile, but now it's here the answer is a resounding Yes!

Cars now being put to use with over 400km already since collection

That's great that you got 12 months tax for £215, which tax band is it in and what are the emmissions?

Congratulations on getting the car through the registration process so smoothly.  You will get used to other cars slowing to take a look.  After 8 years of driving the Lybra (and just over 2 years of driving my Delta), I don't really notice people looking at the car anymore, though when I have friends in the car they often comment on the attention that both cars receive!

When applying to VCA I was initially told I had to supply the Certificate of Conformity which I duly obtained from Fiat UK. When SCS checked all the paperwork upon looking at the CofC, they decided not to disclose it as the emissions (234)were highish, resulting in a £435 road tax bill. Instead they sent in the documentation as they do when importing non EU cars (which do not have a CofC) which fall into one of two categories, Low £105 per annum or high £215 per annum.

I do not think the system is fair because you could purchase for example a Hummer from the states and only pay £215 per annum yet much smaller and more enviro friendly European vehicles get assessed according to emissions, however as I was paying a premium to allow a specialist company to prepare the vehicle for UK legislation I am not complaining!

Certainly sounds like SCS were worth employing!
Brian
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Certainly sounds like SCS were worth employing!
Brian
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[/quote]

Yes Brian, they were , the quotation was honoured (not always the case), they opened specially for me on a Sunday when I dropped off the car, they were super efficient, prompt, professional and even valetted the car on collection. The fact they saved me a few bob into the bargain was the icing on the cake.

Please note, if you are planning to import a European LHD car into the UK you cannot escape the emissions ruling/tax banding if the vehicle is recognised in the UK, it only applies to cars unavailable in the UK and not listed such as the Thesis which is why I was fortunate.

If you plan to import a used LHD Lancia which is not recognised in the UK and is relatively modern (less than 10 years old) i.e. Ypsilon, Lybra, Musa, Delta, Phedra, Kappa & Thesis it may be better not to disclose the C of C if emissions are potentially high.

Paul,
From what you outlined of the work they carried out, I take it that it is fairly easy to switch the headlamps to RHD?

I appreciate that they got around the C of C as far as the emissions were concerned, but did you still have to present the C of C ?
Brian
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Just a little bit of help here if it is any good (I meant to tell you about this by email, Lindsay, so remind me and I will give you more detail). My (ex-Lindsay!) Kappa has lovely lacquered wheels, and they aren't that old, having been replaced by the owner before Lindsay. However, I obviously have the same problems of poor longevity as everyone else, but I have managed to slow down the decline considerably. In winter I spray the lacquered finish with WD-40 every time I wash the car (that's usually 2-3 times a week in winter because I am pathological about salt). It is extremely effective at keeping the wheels going longer, because any little chips or cracks that the lacquer gets are protected by the WD-40. Just be careful to cover the brakes (it is best to take the wheels off the car to do it, although that's a bit of a burden on a daily driver!). The only downside of course is that the WD-40 attracts dirt, so although the wheels are protected by a thin layer of oil they tend to look really grubby. But they do in winter anyway, and I reckon having grubby wheels for 3-4 months a year is better than having corroded ones.

Finally, we just did some work on an absolutely fantastic 8V Integrale that had been imported from Japan, and although the wheels (the original pepperpot ones with the gunmetal centre but unpainted lacquered edges) were 90% perfect, the owner wanted them to be 100%. So we searched around, and to my considerable surprise we managed to find a refurb specialist in Cornwall who did them for about £75 per wheel (I am not 100% certain on the price because it was a few months back, but that's within £20, and it was certainly less than £100). Although that is a bit more expensive than our usual wheel refurb man (things are cheap down 'ere in darkest Devon!), it is only about the same price that I usually hear quoted from refurb people 'up country'. And it is considerably cheaper than it would cost to strip them and paint them - I once stripped the lacquer off a set of Thema wheels, and just doing that bit of the job alone took me 3 days!

I hope that helps a bit - if you have a set of lacquered wheels that you want to get done let me know and I will try to help.

Cheers

Alan

Brian,

I was told that it was just a matter of turning the bulbs prior to purchasing the car which I think maybe the case on non xenon cars, however on mine I understand it was a bit of a faf with the self levelling system and its sensors still at least it's sorted.

No as far as I understand they did not require to disclose the C of C as the car is not recognised on any UK database system which is one of the issues I had when trying to get it insured- no-one would quote because the Thesis doesn't exist??????

Paul.

Paul,
Pity I didn't realise that or know of SCS (Assuming they were in business then) when I imported my Y Elefantino Rosso in 1999, as I wasn't aware that if it wasn't available in the UK you didn't have to comply.
As for the headlamps said they were ok, and were supposedly centre dip according to an article by someone else who had bought one in, in fact that was incorrect as they definitely dipped to the right, but I kept my headlamp adjustment in the lowest position and never had a problem.
It seems easier these days as the pattern is no longer in the headlamp glass, and just rotating the the bulb holder sounds a really sensible solution, one good thing about the Y's headlamp was the lens wasn't glass but polycarbonate with no chance of breakage, which was a nightmare with Dedras.
I had the same problem with insurance but eventually found a company who insured lhd cars,  in Swansea.

Brian
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