Lancia Motor Club

My 13 year old younger daughter had been showing signs of interest so I gave her a brief driving lesson on Sunday.  10 minutes later she has got a good idea of clutch control, I think you'll agree.

http://youtu.be/rm2ujsG5rKw (http://youtu.be/rm2ujsG5rKw)

Agreed. Brave though .... :o)

William, well done, can I bring my 15 year old daughter to your farm yard for a spin?!  ;)

Yes, she does have some courage, or perhaps you meant me for letting her drive the car!

Of course!  How's her clutch control?

Both, he clutch control was fine, she seemed to pull away like an seasoned driver and in a Flavia too, nice to driving in a Lancia.

Very accomplished! - well done. On the subject of teenagers in old Lancias, here's my son Theo at the helm:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7bITFMlA3M

Yes, you :) ... heart stopping going through the gap ?

I've bought a Delta 1300 and my eldest is insured to drive it and the younger (Claire) will be learning to driving this summer so she'll get to practice in it. I, meanwhile, get to drive a total contrast to the integrale ...

He's a lucky lad.  It's good to try and get the olio into young veins, I think.

I was talking to Martin Cliffe of Omicron this morning, who ventured the thought that there is likely to be much less interest in old cars / steam engines etc. in  20 or 30 years’ time than today.

This is based on Martin’s observations that the events he goes to (for enthusiasts for these nice old things) are full of grey hair and also that young people are  generally interested in video games not oily mechanisms.

Based on the so-called '30 year rule' (my paraphrase of which is that middle-aged men who've accumulated a little money spend some of it on the things they lusted after as teens) we should be in a boom in demand for cars of the 70s and 80s... but that doesn't seems to exactly be the case, and in fact cars of the 50s and 60s seem to be very much in vogue at the moment.  

It strikes me that this might be something to do with;
1. the better intrinsic quality of the machines of the earlier time (there's little doubt that the 70s was a nadir for construction quality), and
2. the greater aesthetic merit of the earlier era (very, very subjective I know), but perhaps most of all
3. the older cars are more 'different' compared to today's machines.  Why use them otherwise?  

If this 3rd point is the most important one, then it helps explain why pre-war (both wars, come to that) machines continue to enjoy a very healthy scene (specialists, events, values etc.).  Is the 30-year rule becoming less of a factor?

So perhaps the old car thing will hold up, always supposing we’re still allowed to drive them.  Talking of which, does anyone here think that the scrapping of the MoT for pre-’60 cars (announced yesterday, active from 18th November) might be the foreshock for legal controls on their usage?

Keith Martin (Sports Car Market) wrote an editorial a few years back about this subject and made the very good point that people are allowed to keep horses, which are an interesting eco-comparison to an old car (they both use energy, have emissions), the car’s major advantage being that it isn’t using energy when it’s not in use.  Try putting your horse on blocks for the winter.  KM suggested that old cars might end up like horses – an outmoded means of transport that enthusiasts keep for their leisure and pleasure.  Makes sense to me.

Cars from the 70s pay road tax ... might be another factor.
The number of nice V8 street rods that I see paying zero road tax is a little annoying ......

I do think there will be a lot less interest in old vehicles in 30 years time.I attended a 3 day motorcycle rally a couple of years ago at the age of 45 and was one of the youngest people there apart from the bikers teenage children which they took along.(I hear the same is true at the local medway yacht club)generally I don't come across many younger people who are interested in classic cars.I suppose a look at the LMC membership would give a clue to what  age groups are keenest.if there is a decline in interest the question of future values springs to mind along with the future of industries supporting our hobby which must be at an all time peak.

you wouldn't care to adopt me would you ;D

Brian
8227 8)

I bought a Y10 for the job of teaching the children (twin boys and a girl)  how to drive as I wanted to start them in somthing I liked and to instill the spirit of lancia in them. It diden't work  ::). The poor old Y10 had a habbit of giving up, breaking cables, flooding (because the younger generation dont know what a choke is), and generally misbehaving. ;) we now have a new Fiat 500 instead, but I can see them eyeing up the HF  :o

My two sons have the old Italian car bug bad, I'm happy to say, and both have their own classic Italian rides. Weekend tinkering in your garage with your kids is where it's at (their friends find the whole thing very odd). Wanna play Call of Duty? - perleeze.

I totally agree though this classic car movement we enjoy is a transient thing, and most of the next generation will only value the few rather than the many; artifacts as such, like the best vintage Bugattis and Ferraris et al will always hold resonance, but the majority of classics will be, I don't know just redundant 20th century relics.

In my opinion the 50s/60s appeal lies in the individuality of most designs, before the marketing men got involved (have to be careful here as I am one), and in particluar with the Italians at the time, who were at the peak of their rather late industrial revolution, combining that with their flair for sculpture and you get magic.

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you wouldn't care to adopt me would you ;D

Brian
8227 8)
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C'mon on over, son  ;D

Adding to this interesting debate.

I love the cars of the 1960`s in particular, because I am 52 years old, and thats what I remember from my youth ( although not too many Lancias) mostly Anglias, Victors and A35`s.

Could it be that those aged in their 30`s just aren`t interested in the cars of the 1980`s  because;

1. They weren`t exactly iconic in any way, with a few exceptions.

2. They aren`t a million miles away from cars of today. i.e reliable, rust free, well equipped, useable on a daily basis,
reasonably refined etc.

3. Rarity, when was the last time you saw a Fiat Tempra or Uno, Austin Montego, Ford Sierra,Vauxhall Cavalier Mk2, Nissan Bluebird, Renault 14, Peugeot 309 etc, etc

4. And these people come from a generation used to disposable goods, cars included, and have more disposable income to buy the latest vehicles than we may have had in our youth.

Maybe we are the last of those who truly appreciate cars that were not just "white goods" but were a statement of the original owners, and now our, appreciation of the finer aspects of each and every Manufacturers ideals. Or am I being too romantic ?

you wouldn't care to adopt me would you ;D

Brian
8227 8)
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C'mon on over, son  ;D
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Thanks Dad ;)
Brian
8227 8)

As a fortysomething car enthusiast, and looking at the people of similar age who have taken the reins of key parts of the club, I'm not so sure I'd share this bleak analysis.  The thirty year rule applies for me - the interest is in the 70s and 80s cars a I grew up with, plus a little of the 60s too.  I think the classic car thing will always have a future - but you won't find that future in C&SC, but in the readership of PC and CM, because the cars they champion are younger and cheaper.

Steve - how do you find the 1300 compared to the Grale?

Both the flavia and the Lancia Aurelia B24 spider are stunning cars and top marks for courage letting your kids drive them, if anything it will teach them to cherish those cars in years to come.
Regarding the age of cars, personally i think it is wrong to go off how old a car is purely by year of manufacture when comparing a 1970's  car to a 1990's car etc.I think it is more realistic to judge the cars for when they were actually designed and started production.
The last lancia delta integrales were produced around 1994/1995 but get inside one and with one look at the dashboard alone, your clealy sat in a car designed from the late 70's very early 80's, especially when comparing the change in syling to the escort cosworth of that same era which has nothing in common from its previous escort models from the late 70's /80's.

Theo seems to have outgrown that car already - any taller he'd need goggles.

One of the many reasons I got an Aurelia was that it was going to be easier to restore than the Fiat 124 Coupe I had at the time.  All those bits of plastic and foam filled dash panels and so on are next to impossible to fix.  That Fiat either had to be stripped out as a competition car, customised, or passed on to someone still able to enjoy it for what it was - ie someone still single :)

Some of the Aurelia's appeal was its competion history but more as a mark of just how good it was for its time and as such just how good it was likely to still be.

At the moment I'm half tempted to run another Lancia.  Looking at something like a Beta Coupe I read the road tests and they didn't seem to hold togeather all that well when new.  What would it take to get one to the point where you'd really trust it not to p*ss off or frustrate the rest of the family?  Its the story of that Y10 bought for driving lessons.

The cars I keep being drawn to are the Appias.  I never saw them on the road when new.  The appeal is for what they are now.  An Appia remains a decent car.

David

David - if you can find a decent surviving Delta it won't let you down.  In nine years mine has never let me down.  Just get everything straight at the beginning, and regular maintenance will be fine.  Electrics are simple and robust, and the engine is bulletproof.  Steve has the right idea!

My Beta has always been reliable. Even through two very bad winters, other than the odd part wearing out (water pump, screen wash pump). Just needs more attention than a modern like any older car. As Chris says as long as the body is solid a Beta/Delta is still a good usable car.

This is a personal view and in no way is a criticism of old cars which do not fall into this category, but our view is that our 'old' cars have to be able to keep up with modern traffic conditions and have to be able to drive 3/400 miles in a day reliably without leaving the occupants feeling wrecked. Therefore we have never owned any car older than an Aurelia.
And as a result our son Alex who is a petrolhead takes great pleasure in driving any and all of them whenever possible.
I also think Clive's comments regarding the desirability of the styling and individuality of 50's/60's cars are right on the button.

I shall do a separate thread for you and you can share opinions :) I may even send it in to VL! if I get the time!

The ypsilon I bought a couple of years ago a 1997 model has been very relyable, I bought it on a whim, my son Carl has been driving it for the past year to trevel across the city to college every day and has added an extra 17,00 km to it and never broken down once. I suppose the car will never be a classic lancia as it is to modern in my eyes. Or is it a classic in Carl's eyes, as he is a child of the ninetys the Ypsilon to him is a classic. We have regular discussions as to how much better the Ypsilon is compared to his mates cars, cars that would be a lot younger and fresher. My daily drive is my lancia Thema 1989 model , Is this a classic ? when it's parked along side the Fiat Croma on the drive it looks quite dated and old fashoned in an eighty's way, its also a very relyable car and much more engoyable and involving to drive than the Croma. The Croma is a good car for what it is ment to be, great for moving shopping and kids, like the fridge in the kitchen it's well designed, you get in and drive it you get out again, like the milk you put in the fridge , you put the milk in the fridge, you take the milk out of the fridge, but that's as far as it goes, are all modern cars  like this ? it will never be a classic !  ;D