Lancia Motor Club

Finally, we begin the strip down, deep cleansing and no doubt much poking and prodding.

Tomorrow evening will see us spending a few hours to start things off, then hoping to get a timetable going to last us over the next number of months before we take it for some/lots of bodywork, will up-date the forum as I go along.


P

Couple of evenings work done, knew the sills were shot and front floor pans. Some areas look a bit better than we thought. A bit concerned about what might lie behind the two secured front rubber bulkhead mats! Discovered the original colour though.

We intend to do some more next week, remove wings, brace door apertures, removed all other items and then stick on a rotisserie in September.

Will stick up a few pics as we go along


P

Good luck and fingers crossed, Frank!

Interested to see the pics....

Clive

Thanks Clive......need to be a bit cold hearted over this, if its too difficult/expensive to do overall, still prepared to break it, but fingers Xed!


P

I sincerely hope you never get near the 'break it' option !!! Be brave (and maybe a little foolhardy!).

From my experience it is essential that you check the integrity of the elements of the car to which you propose to attach the rotisserie (in my case, the bumper mounting brackets). All four needed repair (significant repair in the case of the front ones) before we considered them acceptable to take the loads.

Good luck with it all and please keep us informed.

                             Andy

Andy,

Thank you for your sage advice and considered opinion.

The only real thing that will hold me back is if the guys who I approach to do the welding either baulk at it or I don't get a good vibe from them

Yes...we realise we will have to be careful as bumper mounts are corroded/absent, but hes the resourceful type my man whose over seeing all of this.

Thanks!


P

God bless the guy who invented the heat gun....eh Andy?!

Did a few more hours this evening removed the hardened bitumen type material on the foot wells.

Back down on Monday...trying to get it done on dryer evenings as its still outside until it gets garaged in about a fortnights time



P

It would be interesting to seem some pictures when convenient. It would be terribly sad if you didnt proceed with the restoration after the saga of getting the car to the UK. Imagine the satisfaction of bringing it back to life although I have always thought the Aurelia saloon bodies had more hollow sections and double skins than the Coupes and therefore Saloons, if rusty, would always be more of a challenge than the Coupes.
Good luck.

Of course Chris, it is my intention to bring her back to life, but I can't do it alone so I rely on the advice, honesty and skills of others.

As I have said before am a novice at this having only partially restored an Alfa before.

I know areas are double skinned would like to know exactly where though so I am fore warned.

Of course my camera has gone awol since I was last down though am sure the SII Galaxy phone will still do the job


P

Another few evenings done, progressing slowly, all inside de-bitumened...if such a word exists;  was going to go down this evening but weather too changeable as its still outside under wraps.

Nothing much will be done until end of next week, then 14 days at it before I'm away to Italy!


P

Now have passenger side wings removed......most of bitumen removed.

Noted a slip dent on inner front wing......now appears that it had a minor frontal shunt and instead of replacing fog and indicators lights properly they just filled in both cavities/apertures! So I now know both wings are correct and original.

Hoping to get remainder wing areas done next week and will put up a few pics to horrify the forum!!!


P

Keep at it Frank, you deserve a result and I sincerely hope you get one !!!!

            Andy

Thanks Andy......I quite like doing it.......actually....as long as my man keeps me pointed in right direction!


P

Up-date on the colour.........its Bordeaux red...discovered under the rear lights!

Also , some advice, we aren't sure if seller tried and or failed to start engine last year, hoping to turn it by hand, then if it turns check its compression, or should we just assume it needs a rebuild?

Secondly, the inner rubber seal between body and doors with aluminium groove, is there a tool to use to replace the new one?

P

Frank,
Can I suggest you look at Kevin McBride's posts about the cream B20 he is trying to get back on the road, particularly the sections on the engine studs.
A sorry tale but not untypical as I commented as under:
'Kevin,
Sounds very familiar....and why nowadays its back to square one with full disassembly for me with any 'old' engine even if it appears to  be a runner. I have read your previous comments about this car and understand completely the reasons for you ending up in this situation - what a shame that the owner doesnt appreciate what it takes to do the job properly.
The engine is around 55 years old for goodness sake and whilst not complex in design, there are areas which can easily cause problems.
On the subject of studs, in the past  I have purchased sets of newly made studs from various sources and had problems so these days I try to use original Lancia studs which do not show any signs of corrosion or 'necking' particularly in the head gasket area.
Keep up the good work.
Chris'

Are you sure that Red is the colour?  The wings could have been changed... colour in hidden parts of the base unit is probably a more reliable indication.

The replacement of the long door seal into the aluminium channel (or the polypropylene replacement if the Al section isn't salvageable) is, according to some experts, the single hardest part of an Aurelia saloon restoration.  Most advise sliding the seal in using washing-up liquid as a lubricant and preferably have an assistant to help as you do it: the seal gets thinner as you stretch it, which helps!

Good point Will, the green colour could have been the undercoat....but I must check on original log book if it states the colour also

Will check though I think it was in the door jambs too.

I think one or two fractures occured on part removal, will check later this week


P

Chris, I will take your sage advice on board.....and go down the rebuild route.

P

I spoke to Bill Lewis again today, hes only to happy to make replacement panels for the B12 ( he hasn't made any for a B12 before apparently), hes not far from Crewe Hall and is going along anyways to the event in September and I wondered if anyone knows of a B12 making an appearance so he can take some measurements/profiles off a correct car?

If would make life a lot easier and more reliable if he could get an eyeful of a B12 in the flesh than a series of remote measurements from across the Irish sea.

Thanks in advance


P

Ok....so last night my man decided to remove the radiator to start the engine removal, I'm still removing the bitumen off the last inner wing, proved a toughy as the old red wrench had to be used. Never mind having to use the fire extinguisher a few times! As he removed the radiator, he noticed a rather different colour than expected to come out of the bottom hose....ie it was of an oily constituency, so  engine rebuild it is!

Any general tips or foibles of removing an Aurelia engine .....gratefully recieved.

I will post up some pics tomorrow night as promised.


P


PS Still convinced it was a Bordeaux red colour originally, spotted the colour in stripped doors, door jamb and under rear lights!

As promised some photos, they aren't for the faint hearted.......if you are look away  now!


P

.......and......

....my jack......plus......

Well, I looked and, although its a B12 not a B20, it looks sort of familiar.

Take it one (rusty) bit at a time and plod on through.

Jim and I reckon we're on about 120 man days, most of those were Jim's, but I did do some, honestly !!!  Its just that Jim knows what he's doing ...........

Good luck Frank, just get stuck in. Oh, and get it on a rotisserie as soon as you are satisfied that the main structure and mounting points can take it.

                         Andy

We might just put it up on high stands Andy, I don't mind doing the scraping stuff......when my guy has removed the engine,suspension, drivetrain etc ...I will be back from Italy, then spend a couple of weeks doing that, sand/media blast and let a couple of decent welders run their eye over it. Give it to them for 4/5/6/7 months to straighten out.

Bill Lewis will make up a number of panels.......:)


Thats the plan!

P

I'm glad the plan is restoration.  From what you'd been saying Frank I was expecting worse than what I can see in these pictures.  At least you're dealing with honest rust, not bodgery. 

Assuming that the construction is the same as my B10, you need to watch out for - and fully repair - rust within the A pillar / bulkhead area (and yours is rusted out at the base of this section, at the front of the sill).  The flange that the rear of the front wings mount to is a rust trap that encourages corrosion in the body base-unit at this point.

The reversing light mounted on 4th Series B20s seems to make an appearance on your car!  I hadn't realised that.  Should increase the available supply considerably!

A picture is only worth about 239 words Will... ;)...it is pretty bad in places, but the sand blasting will tell the tale.

Yeah, the double skinned areas plus complex areas like pillar base meeting sills etc......

Oh.......does it have a reversing light.......lost re......Should increase the available supply considerably!

Am getting lots of support and info from all the guys on the forum and elsewhere......only for it, it would be considerably more difficult!

P

Slight delay in proceeding, my guy took the opportunity to get rid of one nuisance project in his garage when I was off on holidays and also will get rid of a second this week so space is freed up; so a fortnights delay then engine out etc end of next week and off I go doing more scraping.

Might have some interesting news for the Aurelia fans on the forum next week......or could be a false alarm!


P

So...where were we......oh yes....the B12...after a break for hols, courses and bad timing the car is finally inside, up on stands, exhaust and manifolds removed, lots of non-original exhaust hangers and a missing nut or two.

We hope to have engine out this week, then endless scraping for a week or two.

On further examining the underside we discovered a full depth "crack" running across the base of the nearside front engine horn...a bit concerning, any comments on this guys? Photos to follow plus hoping to get one of the potential welders to view it next week before getting it blasted later in November.



P

This evening I got underneath her and did a couple of hours scrapping, the area under the corroded boot floor isn't too bad at all. My photos appear to be very "orange" maybe its just the colour balance being skewed, but with the worklight helping it gives a more balanced colour range in that photo!

Bonnet off, engine mounts loosen, brakes disconnected, radiator out, horn out, numerous small bits dismounted and labelled.

Tomorrow, more scrapping and templating and sectioning the best part/most crucial part of the sills and then floor pan.

The front end pics look just a little scary!


P

Whenever a project of mine gets a bit gutty, i just swallow hard, share my feelings my wife and then conclude - 'what else would I rather be doing with my time and money?'
And then I just continue.
Chris

Chris...its a slow burner, in it for the long run.

Hoping not too many crisis points, I have great confidence in the guy doing most of the work, just hoping the selected body man doesn't turn tail during the project. Plus only involved for the next few weeks until he lays his hands on it for a prolonged period, bar photos every few weeks.

Having said that, still lots to refurb off the car, track down and organise.


P

 Quote          'what else would I rather be doing with my time and money?'
                   And then I just continue.


Chris, you have said this for many of us !!!!!!!


Keep going Frank, I'm sure it will most definitely be worth it in the long run. The sense of satisfaction with bringing something back from the edge will be enormous and more than justify all that you put into it.

The photos are a little grim, but that is all part of the challenge. There were areas on my car far worse than those I can see in the photos, choose a good body man and have faith.

Best wishes,

                Andy 

Cheers Andy.

As ever I shall reciprocate the sentiments in your post above.

Awaiting the sandblasting with trepidation though.

Down again this evening for another few hours, truth be known, I quite enjoy it!

I left a copy of "Fifty-five years of dirty hands" by the late Clive Beattie of Australia with my mechanic for more tips etc....plus have printed off info from all the kind contributors on this forum.


P

A few more hours a few more bucks...........did some more underseal removal at rear to nearly finish that area off, we need to remove rear brakes, gearbox etc to get into the next area needing done, but will by pass that and do main underside of body next week.

Also tonight we cut out the most relevant sill section and made a metal profile for Bill Lewis to make up both sills and intermediate leaves. My mechanic is very impressed with both spot and seam welding of same. It took a good hour to release said section with out distorting and keeping the various little bends and finishes intact. We were a little surprised at just how much good metal was in there!

That looks familiar Frank !!!

A tip from Jim, he welded a couple of tags onto the inner sill member to hold the wiring loom up to prevent it from melting when the bottom edge of the sill is welded. The loom showed signs of damage, presumably caused when it was in the factory !!!!

Keep at it,

              ndy

Thanks Andy, he wasn't quite sure where the wiring was situated so he was very careful when using the disc. It could be reusable or at the least templated for a new one, though there were a few changes to things as the car aged....such as the non-original front/rear stop and indicator lights plus the absence of the foglights!


P

By now you will have all heard me going on about being a newbie to the Lancia scene, this is likely to remain so for the forseeable future!

I know where to source lots of bits and pieces by now, so just in case I thought I'd ask as I went along if any current members might just have a little stash of a few bits and bobs secreted away or just forgotten about, that may be useful to me in my restoration.

The doors on my car have a few of the bolts holding the hinges to the body missing, are they common to other Aurelia models, anyone got any spare?

Secondly the pins that mate the hinge to the door are worn, same question as above?

Feel free to pm me with any and all suggestions, offers, tips or direct links if needs be.

Thanks in anticipation,

P

From my limited experience of these things I think it is best not to disturb the hinge bolts/ fittings, either to door or body. If the door has to come off then driving out the pins is, I think, the approved method.

When the doors were re-fitted to my Fulvia I made new pins from stainless-steel rod, which was I think 8mm diameter. I simply cut them to length, ground a lead-in taper and a groove near the top-end to take a circlip. Sounds easy, but I have to confess I wasn’t around when the doors were put back on!

Colin

Hi Colin,

Well to get car painted etc, need them off, mind you when doing the welding to sills they will be in situ! Difficulty with two doors was that the hinge was only mated to body with one screw/bolt instead of 3...hence the request.

Cheers for pin info too


P

P,

Can you share the chassis/engine number of your B12 with me?  Paul Mayo

Hi Paul,

You have a pm....thanks!

P

The full floor pan underside area now cleared...5 hrs work.

Finally the engine is ready to be lifted out next Tuesday.

Then the week after final bit of underseal removal after propshaft and rear brakes etc dismounted before the sand blaster man gets his paws on it early December

Up-dated photos next week


P

Still doing research, printing off all and sundry information.

Both my bumpers are pretty battered, kinked, etc

I have been told that as they are made of brass, they need to be dechromed first, then annealed in a furnace when hot, then allowed to cool down over a 36-48 hour period, only then are they safe to work on without fracturing etc.

Has anyone done this on the forum, any and all information relating to the subject welcome, including where to have done and recommendations.

Thanks


P

Any further info on the annealing mentioned above?

Engine has been taken out this evening and partially cleaned. Bit of a hiatus now, only working on it 2 evenings in 2 weeks, but then full on til ready for sandblasting.

Pics to follow.


P

....a few more.......


P

Cannot see very clearly, but I hope you did not use the bolts in the middle of the 'V' to lift the engine. I think you may run the risk of pulling them out of the head. Hopefully it will come apart easily !!!

Ooopppssss.....its on a pallet now Kevin, will modify lifting point next time!

P

That engine is a beautiful thing.  The details in the empty engine bay are lovely.  Keep at it !!

David

Thanks David,

I just got a back issue of Auto Italia edition 146 Aug 2008 this morning ...full article on same with lovely pics.


P

Just back from my tour of the UK, 1200 miles, 10 pickups/drop-offs....:)

Left engine and bumpers off to get worked on sometime next year, collected a batch of great doors and correct wings, plus repair sections from Bill Lewis...so fabulous...:)....am really delighted with them all.

Down again tomorrow evening for a some more stripping......to continue until completed end of month...:)

Mostly cleaned up engine now................the flag and shield showed up well!


P

Its always interesting opening up an old Aurelia engine (once you have got the heads off!) to see what the internal corrosion in the block is like. In my experience it varies widely....and in different places from engine to engine. As to the heads, they will look awful initially but get them cleaned up properly first before jumping to any conclusions. looking forward to seeing the photos.
Chris

No doubt Chris, the grand opening will reveal all plus the rest, but won't happen til autumn or so next year,


P

A few more evenings done, dismounted the propshaft, brake cable, gear linkages, pedal box and linkages, steering column, plus then cleaned up same.....not a pretty sight!!!


 A few questions  -

1. How much play there is there supposed to be in the gear change linkages, rubber bushes available?

2. See photos of brake master cylinder, it doesn't fit onto the pedal box mounting as it should suspect a bodge/substitute job, anyone know if all Aurelia MCs the same? Cost of reburb, kit for doing same available?


Indeed a number of bolts/pins were missing off the same pedal box.....a death trap effectively!!


P

The master cylinder looks pretty original. I have a few old cylinder bodies. They look fine, and probably would work well with new seals. However for peace of mind (and after ploughing into a tyre wall some years ago with brake failure) I'd buy a new one. I got one from Cavalitto a few years back. I did repair one on a car I'm working on, the only issue was a broken spring (Cavalitto again).
The casings I have also are slightly 'ovalized' at the plunger end.

Agreed it looks very similar but was poorly seated when bolted to outer pedal box array...ie the bolts and washers keeping it in place were only sort of 1/2 way into the three lugs ....hence the question/query


P

Re gear linkage play. There should be virtually none. New synthetic bushes are available and they have steel bushes inside them. My B12 gearchange is quite precise and free of any lost movement.
Master cylinder does look original. Mine had a modification to take a Nissan(?) master cylinder whose bore was slightly larger than the original. Hence, long pedal travel. Removed it and replaced with a correct cylinder and it transformed the brakes. Probably uses first 1/4 to 1/3 of available pedal travel for maximum braking.
Use a rope slung under the manifolds to lift the engine! Not the bolts that locate the camshaft. Also, when replacing the latter make sure that the spigot end on the bolts engages with the indexing hole in the camshaft bushes.
Keep  the good work. My rebuilt B12 engine is an utter delight.

Brian.

Hi Brian, thanks for that, am getting conflicting feedback re the MC, I must check what number is on the side and report back!

Good re linkage bush, took care re further moves of engine now with engine the guy who'll do the work.

P

Just to up-date, there are only 2 bolts holes on the base of this MC, but three recieving bolts on the pedal box, no numbers on it....comments?

Spent a few hours stripping out the wiring loom.......who ever said the Italians have a sense of humour.................cos they DON'T!!!

All so interwoven and same coloured wires and of course after purchase up-dates which didn't help. Hoping to come up with a sensible way of labelling and annotating same by tomorrow evening.


Onwards and upwards!


P

Brian I dont understand why a larger bore would lead to longer pedal travel as the hydraulic swept volume would require less??

Tim

One can cut corners and refettle old components in all sorts of areas to keep costs down but brakes, tyres and steering - no way. Fit a new master cylinder, tyres and so on.

I second Chris' comments.

Talk to Peter Harding (01256 766880) for the master cylinder, he does new ones that fit with very little modification.

Thanks guys, all noted and will be acted on.

A few more hours done this eve....ie scraping and cleaning.......getting a little mini-printer item to tag all the tagliatelle of wiring we've come across.

Reservoir dismounted, petrol lines loosen, other wiring loosened for Fridays tagging.



P

Ok...so on dismounting the main fusebox which we'd thought about labelling up on Friday, we then decided to re-connect all wires to same again and remove the box with labelled wiring from the dashboard by withdrawing the wires back through the handy opening in the bulkhead. Bar a few wires most seem in decent order.


The radio is a two box affair the size of a small filing cabinet! Some buttons missing off it, not sure if salvageable....or does any know a good "Lazarus" type radio restorer??!!


End of play for this week, next week will finalise removal of front loom, remove remainder instruments and other items from engine bay so it too can be cleaned up. Week after remove brakes and rear assembly...:)


P

This is an old cylinder I have, it looks clean enough, but even with a honing and new seals did not work. I'd simply buy a new one.
Regarding the wiring loom. I re-wired my own car using coloured wires. After tagging each end and taking lots of photos, I took out the complete with fusebox attached. Laid it on the floor and fitted coloured wiring,each circuit at a time.I followed the colour coding as used on modern Fiats. I left each wire maybe a foot longer, which gave a bit of freedom when refitting.
I got a local auto tech to rewire the 'other' B20 I am working on. What he did was clever, he used coloured wiring, but covered each wire with 'shrink' black coloured tubing. This gave the impression that the loomwas original, yet also provided a little bit of colour to be able to connect properly.

Thanks again Kevin, those titbits of previous experiences are invaluable, avoiding false economies and saving time....never mind a guys life!!!

P

This is who I used to restore the Condor radio in my car:-
A.C. James
10 Westview
Paulton, Bristol. BS39 7XJ
Tel: 01761 413933.

I had all the original valves etc taken out and fitted with modern electronics to receive FM, there is also a hidden fly lead in the glovebox to plug into a MP3 player.

Thank you, will take note and use,

P

paint stripping: 1st tape up all edges door gaps etc that you dont want to strip, i usually use a foil tape and then masking tape over that, then i use a comercial stripper, litterally pour it on the car and ruh out so its nice and thick on top of the paint, cover the panel with thin polythene sheet to stop it evapourating (this really works well!!), once cleaned off i use wurth scotchbrite cup wheels in a low speed grinder polisher to remove the rest of the paint, this process does not put too much heat into panels which most blasting does, too much heat = distorted panels  >:(

hope this answers your questions frank, thought i'd post the reply on here incase of use to anyone else, j

As ever many thanks James.....we intend to use the striping and mild abrasive method on every thing about 10 inches from the sills upwards.....sand blast below if at all possible, as you say reduced pressure/heat means less work later.

This technique is also safe for the aluminium panels, or just the chemical only? Also, this won't lift away any filler ...but will lift away that older type of very thick undercoat they used originally at the factory?

P

 ne on alloy just use chemical to strip off as much as poss 1st, a'm doing at moment has alloy panels and works fine on them

Just modifed the above post James......last line


P

filler is harder to shift but thats why we use the product in the pictures, it chews everything!!!, its taken 1 man 2 days to do the fulvia and the 3rd day will be using the polisher to finish off, all awkward area's ie seams and headlamp panels etc will be locally blasted after this process, cellulose tends to melt with blasting and become a gooey mess that spreads around rather than blast off

Thanks, not seeing a supplier for the Wurth wheels, know a nation wide supplier or recommend someone?


P

i will get you the uk number, call them and see what they say, everything i buy comes by post off them anyway

Thats great....:)


P

Interesting to see how best to remove old paint (Aprilia wings beckon) so please keep us informed re suppliers etc

Keep up the good work, I always marvel at how complex Aurelias are - that gear linkage !

I think marvel is the wrong word.....terrified would be more apt.....;)


P

Frank, I am definitely with you on this one !!!!!

However, the reward should be all the greater for having succeeded ....... when we eventually do !! At least, that is what I keep telling myself.

We must both keep at it !!!

                   Andy

FRANK THE NUMBER FOR WURTH IRELAND IS 00353 61430200, spoke to Wurth uk today and they cannot ship to ireland however they said the ireland branch would gladly deal with you direct, hope this helps, j

James.....I am over in GB next week, can get them shipped to a mate, the RoI items will be 50% more ( I am in N ireland) !!!!!!

Do give me the UK supplier number please


P

Of course Andy...as long as I can rely on all the members on the forum to give me plenty of leg ups....I will survive, looking forward to your next up-date.....:)


P

Link page to the Wurth site giving more details on the cup wheels -

http://www.wurth.co.uk/data/productdocuments/020605.pdf

Local motor factors can't get any of the paint stripping chemicals


P

Came across a number of suppliers....but this seems the best price....

http://r.twenga.co.uk/g3.php?pg=VDs2MDMyNTM1NzUxNjMwODEwMTA4OzMyOTI2NTE7aHR0cDovL3d3dy5hbGxveXBhaW50cy5jb20vc3RhcmNoZW0tcGFpbnQtc3RyaXBwZXItNS1sdHJzLTcwLXAuYXNwO2NmNTY3NzljYWE2Y2FiMjE0OGJkNzExZGIyZGJiODM3&dac=1

But worth cheacking ebay too! However will await Jame's supplier details

P

James, if you could pm or post your suppliers contact number that would be great.

Doing a further 3 evenings this week, wiring loom labelled and fully dismounted this evening.

Tomorrow, remove the handbrake, the heating vents, wiper motor, handle throttle/choke, clean up engine bay.

Photos to follow

P

Heres a few more pics.....in order I hope....all wiring out and labelled...instruments out, dash itself out, more scraping done....gearbox etc dismounted.

Oh and note the Portuguese's mouse nest........;)

....now the gearbox.....

Over to Birmingham this weekend and to our Maserati Xmas bash....so won't be getting the hands dirty til next Weds......:)


P

Very resourceful mouse, any date on the newspaper? ;D

Brian
8227 8)

Am hoping to carry out that piece of research next week to put your mind to rest Brian...........hoping he didn't have a dual use for said nest........;)


If all from same page....will Tehran style piece it all together again and post it up.

P

Oooppsss.....forgot to raid the mouses nest tonight...two more evenings done, hoping just a final evening underneath next week, then a good clean of gearbox/brake unit.

One of  3 body men is coming to inspect the car next week....will then see who shows most interest and knowledge/empathy for my project!

Just getting to point of dismounting rear axle/hub units to disassemble...debating tool fabrication.....or is one available from the club tools section?


P

Thanks for that clarification Brian....an extra few evenings to be spent making them up then, via some drawings obtained from a member on the forum!

P

Probably the same drawings I used to check out if any of the tools I hold were for Aurelia, although a couple looked a bit like the drawings they weren't! :'(

Brian
8227 8)

As far as I know John Cundy (of the Hawthorn Aurelia) has some tools made up when he was restoring the car. He may have patterns, which might make the job easier.
On my car, Barrie Crowe replaced a rear wheel bearing, and documented it in a Lancia Club journal. He borrowed tools for the job, I could have sworn he got them from the Club. I must check the article.

The drawings are very good...again with so many restorations out there , did everyone make up their own tools over 30/40 odd years or what has happened, some types of work only done by the 1/2 dozen specialists?

Again Kevin your help is appreciated in the restoration


P

Penultimate evening of work before downing tools for festive period.

Just one more evening of scraping to go........might get gearbox/brakes combo cleaned up too.

I also raided the mouses newspaper nest.....which was in a tube like opening under the dash leading to engine bay, from which no doubt he gained access to interior of car. I will Poirot like, piece the dozens of bits together to see just what newspaper the mouse used as bedding, also maybe get a date from same to perhaps back up the laid up for 36 years claim....or was he a smartish mouse, or just a page three mouse......;)

The first of the body men came to inspect the "carcass" of the B 12....he seems interested but will only commit once its been sand blasted....will also get the other two guys to have a looksee in new year.

My man is searching out a rear hub "socket" to modify to loosen same.

Last of the years pics to follow soon.


P

So...approximately 97 hours of labour later this is what a B 12 looks like!

Ok, glass needs to come out, dismount front/rear axles....but simple enough.

In new year, will spend a few weeks removing paint, then to sand blaster end of January.

The dirty, oily gloves have been binned, will treat myself to a new pair in the sales.


P

Well done!!

I think that car may have found itself a good home.

David

Frank that is looking so promising. I really do think that your decision to go to the sandblaster is a good one.

I had a look at one of James' Aprilias a week or so ago, the offside rear wing was like lace, a perfect example of what Jim describes as 'Tetleys'. That was after a sandblasting session, the process is ruthlessly honest !!!

Good luck with everything and I sincerely hope you get a good and reliable body man with whom you can leave the shell and then relax knowing it will be properly done at the right price. Please note, the right price does not necessarily result in a low cost !!!!  Neither Jim nor I could believe it when we worked out the bottom line, so far, but a schedule of the work done makes it look like good value !

Have a great Christmas and a happy and healthy new year,

                                                          Andy

Andy and David, thanks again for your interest and support, its really appreciated.

Yes, the guy concerned is very good by all accounts, and yes, I 'd much rather pay a bit more for the right job job, even if it takes a bit longer and takes me over budget on the body.

I am looking forward to stripping the upper 90% and seeing what lies under same. I saw Jame's car too, yes, but not in a bad place to repair and get a good result.

Do have a great one and hoping the new year to leads to lots of progress for both of us!


P

Ok....the NI forensics department have issued a preliminary report.............




Reference Portuguese mouse nest - newspaper sourced submitted December 20th december 2012.

Weight - 35 grams

Consisting of two newspapers....mostly the sports sections......233 separate pieces, ranging from 3mm x 6mms to largest piece 65 mm X 24 mms

Identifying information ( NB no date of each newspaper edition found on any piece) -

However latest date noted on any piece....1988.....1986 on a 2nd

Several references to motorsport in that period with times but no GP venue, N Mansell, A Prost, on another M Brundle.

Conclusion - the small house rodent took up residence circa 1988 at earliest.....but no definite date for latest making of same ( if you want the nest dated more precisely we can of course do so for an additional £350)




P

In Portugese or English may I ask....?

Peter

Portuguese Peter.......very few multi-lingual mice about 30 yrs ago.......quite a few now though.....;)


P

its a perfectly good wing i'll have you know! have you not seen a lightweight aprilia competizione before  ;)

Thank you Frank,
May not be multilingual but a very discerning mouse to choose a Lancia in which to make it's home.

Happy Christmas.

Brian
8227 8)

Plus the other unique find was a stone about 1 1/2" long used to keep the radiator slats open.....period fix I call it!!

:)


P

The Xmas break has been a bit prolonged and with being away a few days plus another car needing MOT....the B12 has been neglected.

Back down doing final cleaning and dissassembly this evening plus hoping to start on paint removal...in a week/fortnights time


P

Things a bit tidier/cleaner.

Rear suspension assembly off with little bother, get it cleaned up tomorrow.

Had a look into the rear brake drums, little wear, no leaks!


P

Rear suspension now looking a bit better, plus going on advice from a member off the forum, ensuring the doors are all hanging as true as possible and operating correctly to aid bodyman in a few weeks time. One side done, the little 12" pull lever that screws into the bottom opening catch had lost its threads, so a new 2" end thread piece welded on to make it work as it should.

Some more cleaning tomorrow, tools being make for rear hub so the bearings can be loosened, then rear suspension goes back on to move car around to allow the doors on the far side to be worked on, glass out next week and front suspension hubs freed off.

Then some paint removal


P

Sounds great - had a chance to take any photos ?

Will take a few on Thursday, and then when completely bare before paint stripping


P

A bit ahead of myself, rear hub tool will be completed Monday, so loosen same then, a bit more cleaning up this evening.

The driveshafts show some wear in the Hardy-spicer parts where  it slots into the part with all the roller needles, theses can be replaced or secondhand only for outer parts with needles?

Shocks cleaned up well, assume I can get replacement rubber parts too?


P

Post 1000........................:)

Tools virtually made up to remove rear hub bearing, just to get C spanner too. We already have the front hub bearing.  Once bearings released we'll pop rear suspension back on to move the car so we can work on other sides doors. Then glass out for paint removal. Gearbox cleaned up well too

Looking very good !

Question re hub tool - if the nut is as tight as expected, is there a chance the tool might twist out and undo all your good work ? Could you do a slight mod and drill a hole down the centre of the hex and then use some threaded rod and a plate across the front of the hub to hold the tool in place and stop it moving ? Fulvia hub tools do something a bit similar

PS  How do you get the aluminium so shiny ?

Yes,  a brace of types will be used to hold it in place when extreme torque applied!

The aluminium repsonds well to the flash!! Just cleaned with petrol. You could clean it better using aluminium oxide as a medium I beleive.


P

Frank, that is looking really great !!!

I love the idea of the restraint to hold the ring nut spanner firmly in place, we did actually manage without one but were concerned that we may have exactly that problem !!!

With the springs still attached to the axle you have addressed one of the problems we created, how to restrain the de dion which, of course, just wanted to rotate !!!

i cannot wait to know how you get on when you attack the thing in earnest!!  Hopefully significantly better than Jim and I managed !!!  Whatever happens, it will all come apart one way or another !!!

                                                             Andy

Cheers Andy.....as ever, I am humbly following in your kind footsteps! Still in the cleaning mode though....sorta a step ahead of ourselves, as regards, getting other bits done before the hubs/suspension, but makes it a bit more interesting and my mechanic quite likes working on it. We will just loosen them, work on them later to refurb after car gone to body guy.

But with weather less cold, daylight improving, it will make a difference to us both to crack on.

P

So........................................

Realising we weren't going to get sufficient purchase to torque the rearhub bearings off with the assembly on the floor, we thought, no probs.........a few bolts and the rear suspension assembly will be back on the car and hey presto..................

Eeeeeemmmmm...not quite, my mechanic had obtained a torque converter thingie (multiplys force used by 5 ) and naturely we thought, piece of cake..........with a huge rachet and maximum force we'd soon have it off.......we even attached a big wrench and a ten foot piece of tubing, but even with things wedged in place there was too much give in the whole assembly.......the whole car was bouncing about on the stands.............2 hrs later.....red faced, two middle aged guys a bit out of puff have decided to go down the red wrench and air gun method!!!!


P

The inner bearing retaining nut is off, I wasn't there to witness the engineering genius that was required....but the story about getting it off was good. Red wrench applied, bracing between both hubs, tool applied with 10 foot lever, three segemental "cracks" and off she came.....sweet as a nut!

The outer retaining nut has defeated our home made C spanner due to the softness of the metal, even though re-inforced. So hoping to get a commercial one in the next few days.


P

Well done Frank, even though it was not you personally that was victorious !!!!  Good luck with an up-rated C spanner and then please let us know the state of the bearing !!!!

Look out for the O ring type seal on the outer retaining nut, I have yet to remake these although the bearing assemblies have been rebuilt and simply need torquing up.

                                 Andy

We were seriously doubting the left handed thread on the left hub and vice versa on the right one, such was the exasperation!

Will do re the seals, will be going down tomorrow evening if he can get one


P

Epic!!  How many would be thinking "perhaps the nut doesn't need to come off after all..."

David,

         Jim and I  never got to the 'perhaps the nut doesn't need to come off after all ....' stage. We both, independently, took it as a challenge to our effort and ingenuity to 'defeat the bloody thing and show it who is the boss !!!!. Our next move, had we not succeeded, would have been to get it hot, very hot, cherry red hot and then beat the crap out of it. By the way, the latter phrase is an old English engineering term !!  After that, if still defeated, would have come the 'perhaps the nut doesn't need to come off after all ....' phase. 

However, by then that would not have been an option as all the beating and heating will have meant that, no matter what the state of the bearing, seals etc was before we started, they now most definitely must be removed !!!  Don't you just hate it when that happens !!

                    Andy

Oh for the days of thicker grease, turning the radio up and thinking 'this car will be dead soon anyway'.

David

Been there, done that !!!!  and in your neck of the woods David, when at college I lived in Lee High Road !!!!!

                      Andy

We didn't do a lot of beating Andy....just a lot of swearing.......nor was it glowing like a furnace......just enough to ease things....:)


P

Was discussing this with my dad this morning, and he says the reason you are probably having so much trouble with the ring nuts is that you are using bars which are too long and not stiff enough.

The best length is about 8" with a cross section of about 2.5" x 3/8" welded securely on the back of the tool all located by a through bolt (as you have done). You then have a very stiff and strong lever which you can tickle with a lump hammer. Only for really recalcitrant cases you may need to play a flame on it.

Putting them back is the reverse, tickle it with the hammer until it goes solid, then tap it round to get the next locating ring hole aligned. Torque values are rather meaningless in this type of assembly (fine thread - wide diameter).

Neil, thanks for that gem of information, will pass it onto my guy tomorrow


P

Next is the outer retaining nut.....again, spent some time to no avail, the C spanner made in, as it turns out, not the hardest of metal, bent twice despite re-inforcing. With Neils ideas plus my guys ingenuity, we with move it all on tomorrow


P

Modified and greatly strengthened C spanner worked a treat......about 10 seconds of effort, complete bearing assembly removed, cleaned then re-assembled. A local motor factors boasts he can provide any bearing under the sun.........sounds like hes going to eat some humble pie shortly.....;)

Will post up some pics too

Tomorrow, swing car around to loosened other assembly up, continue to strip doors


P

Best laid plans and all that, - no problems getting the 2nd inner retaining nut off on the other side, used a thick beam with small bottle jack to maintain constant pressure on bearing tool, a bit of heat and 10mins later off.

As for the outer retaining nut, broke the tooth off the C spanner 3 times, plus the C shape of the tool got deformed, tool then substantially re-inforced, a bit of heat and all done, we didn't take bearing out as we need to stick wheels back on to move to body man in a few weeks time, but delighted with ourselves tonight!

No more this week, glass out next week, more tidying......


P

Bravo ! - like the bottle jack solution

That little thing was a god send, he'd cobbled it together with another part for a specific purpose....the bearing tool moved too much, so lost quite a bit of the torque action...it worked well!


P

Hooray!!!!!!

That's a BIG stage on.

So...front axle...does it ~have~ to come to bits or is that all part of the fun :)

David

......if we had some cheap champagne nearby we might have popped it!

Not decided on front axle yet......but theres always next week!

P

You need a fridge in the garage for that.  Plus beers.  Plus for shrinking stuff to get it all back together again.

There must also ALWAYS be the remains of a pizza.

One day I'll be living that dream again. 

You need a dishwasher as well - for castings - we never got that far.  In fact I've never seen one used that way.  Is it an urban legend?

As an aside I've heard of woodworkers having dishwashers but pumping hot oil instead of water to finish work on the trays.  Also of washing machines for tumble sanding.  The joys of self employment away from the world of inspectors and litigators.

David

We have a small sand/media blasting cabinet for the smaller stuff........will pass on the rest as we only ever do  2-3 hr shifts, but good to get to certain points and move on....plenty left to do!


P

Front and rear screens out, base of front screen rusted through in places, to be expected, taking the intricate rubber door seal off has been time consuming...each 3 mm screw needing a couple of mins wrestling each! Do the other side on Thursday evening plus remove the worse of the two sills in preparation for sand blasting, we had a bit of a scare when we checked the same sill to find the doors sitting a few mills proud of sill, to then realised the outer section had been damaged and then poorly repaired, thankfully the inner section is straight......so a big sigh of relief.

Also on Thursday a final bit of cleaning, a few recalcitrant bolts to be finally removed with the red wrench! Then my mechanic is off on hols for a week.

Pics to follow on Thursday 


P

So.....a bit of an hiatus, planning for the week of the 25th when my guy returns, intend to free up front suspension units so when it goes to bodymshop, its easier to work on. I will be taking a few 1/2 days so I can get the paint removal off to a good start ( have to use up the remainder of my annual leave somehow!) Do some extra perp to metal work so hopefully only left with lower 10 inches of car needing sandblasting.

One of the 3 possible body men has dropped out, will ask third shortly to see if interested. Hoping also to get a guy to look at headlining in situ to see if he can help out either to make it or re-install at a later date.

A few pics for your delectation.........or is that horror??!!


P

Gee time passes quickly, not got a lot done recently, just down this evening relieving the car of its headlining, quite an intricate way of applying same and finishing it off.

We thought when delicately removing the same that there was quite a bit of debris falling out and then as we moved along its length we finally realised it was another mouses nest, then found a second and finally a third! Made up of part newspaper, part sound deadening material and other nice soft material, but he/they left the headlining largely untouched....smart mouse! Pics to follow.

We then removed the last bits an bobs from around engine bay and the only repair we've found which was only lightly tack welded on behind the rear wing.

Hoping to get a date for sand/media blasting by end of this week. In the meantime laid my hands on a nice pair of wiper arms with blades to add to the front foglights I got a month back.

P

Well done tracking down fog lights.

Headlining usable?  That WOULD be something.

Screen frames in patches or wholesale?

Keep at it !!

David

Got them off Italian ebay, there were two sets, the 2nd set was just over 1/2 price of pair I bought including postage

The headlining is largely intact but in unusable condition so will be a good pattern. Front screen edges at base need repair, rears ok.

P

These are what I don't truly want to spend £700 on though........anyone got a reasonably/sensibly priced 2nd hand pair?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370649455778?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649


P

A few pics...

Final bits and bobs removed this evening.....car transported to sand/media blaster....50 miles away...could have collected it next week, but will be on the French Riviera........:)

So picking it up this day fortnight.


P

It looks as if there have been "Several Species of Small Furry Animals" living in the headlining - I hope they have been evicted ..... or become "Comfortably Numb"

After a prolonged hiatus, doing additional checks on those who might carry out the work and relying on a guy to do me a favour, we finally got the B12 back after its was sand/media blasted, we are all thankfully pretty pleased!

Pics to follow when I get my breath back


P

That Frank is what you call a huge leap in progress and glad that the revealed shell is seems not to be a a horror story!!!

Hurry up with the photos, this is the base point for all the body work and we want to see it !!!!

                                        Andy

Ok.....fully stripped awaiting blasting..........it does indeed look quite forlorn, as if someone had escaped from the fires of hell!!

During the process.........


P

.......some more.....then in primer.......


P

....and........:)


P

....nearly there......


P

All wrapped up and ready to go home.....45 odd miles.........


Over the next week plus 3 guys will give us quotes and or we'll get a feel for them as body men to allow them to restore the Aurelia body.


P

That was a job worth doing, going by the pictures. If it was mine, I would think of now as a halfway point, in as much "light at the end of the tunnel"(I know some say passing the MOT is that point). I rather like the "before" photos too. Richard

Its more the end of the first act...... ;D

Finished body and painted........2nd act........


P

And to mark the occasion, I will up-date my avatar.....:)


P

Great, a major bit of progress!

You must be really pleased with the results Frank. Doesnt look too bad to me at all - I have seen and had repaired much worse. When your bodyshop starts working on the shell can I suggest they look very closely at the area above the front axle and under the steering box as there can often be hidden corrosion or botched repairs in this area on the underside.
Did you have the wings stripped as well?  
I look forward to seeing photos of your progress.
Chris

Gee Neil, the blasting etc took a day and a bit....to strip it took us best part of 160 hours!!!


P

Thanks Chris will squirrel away that info for future use, no big surprises , just a few bits we couldn't quite see, will do only body to start with, front wings need some work, some due to rust and remainder due to modifications done by previous owners when they left off the front indicators and foglights!

Rears are fine, just needs stripped of paint, ditto other aluminium panels


P

Frank, I think this quote is correct and really quite apt ....

      "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
Winston Churchill

We all know how that saga ended and I am absolutely sure that your success will as complete !!!

Keep at it Frank !!!

                      Andy

Very appropriate post Andy as Frank will be spending lots of the new £5 notes featuring Winston Churchuill in the months/years to come on his car!
Chris

I think it will be nearly as many higher denomination notes........but as you reach/pass each stage of completion then you go get a bit re-invigorated......aint that right Andy??!!

:)


P

I saw the avatar on another thread, looked here and had to go back two pages which rather says it all with the extent of the step and people's reactions to it.  Turned a corner to be sure, and a long way down the next straight.  It doesn't feel all that long since it was the "getting it home" saga.

So.....whet my appetite....what's next aside from the bodyshell?

David

Well......nearly 6 weeks passed/wasted in getting someone who was truly recommended to do this bit of work, should have been a bit better prepared in organising the schedule, so to me quite a bit of time has passed in reality as regards getting the car to this stage.

The body guys really only wanted to see it post blasting, so theres a knock on effect. Again, they will do it on a as and when they have a free day/afternoon over the next 4-8 months to make it more cost effective. In the interim I have an Alfa Romeo to sell to part fund the project, plus free up my garage, so some of the work will be dependent on that for the next 4-6 mths anyways. So the sooner it sells, the quicker I will get other mechanical work started. As I said the work will then run concurrently.

P

Great to see the car in primer, real milestone , keep at it (good luck with Alfa sale)

I know its a Lancia forum but surely - given progress depends on it - you could say what Alfa and where the advert is....?

David

Not got around to putting one up....but will do in next few weeks, here it is.....


P

My Fulvia and I have been in the company of one of those! Nice engine and looks pretty, but ……

Colin

...the humiliation of being burnt off by an Alfa still wrankles....??!!....;)


P

Errrr ... you will notice that it is one carriageway of a dual-carriageway road in the UK (the A1 heading south in fact) where we drive on the left and usually overtake on the right. It was the the Fulvia in overtaking mode.

Colin

So, tonight the first body man came to examine my B12, spend about and hour and half going over what needed done and how and why etc

Sort of agreed a price, the second guy is coming tomorrow evening, will decide next week and move on in June....fingers Xed!


P

Second body guy has been and gone, his is more of a commercial enterprise, he would restore it with his partner over a much shorter time span but can't do it until the end of the year, plus he's double plus the price of the first guy.

We are meeting the first body man on Monday to hopefully agree some more finer details of the restoration, so hoping to tie things up as best you can at this stage. Moving the car to his place at end of June, touch wood

The third guy hasn't gotten back to us, so his window of opportunity is diminishing rapidly



P

I had bought a set of original re-chromed ( one not quite perfect.....but you should see the state of my binlid like hubcaps!) hubcaps in Italy, the seller was quite happy to post within Italy for a small fee but wanted nearly what I paid for them in postage to the UK.....I got them for a bargain price and I didn't want to ruin that sense of them being a bargain by getting caught out at the last hurdle.

I had tried a few other options to get them back to the UK but to no avail, and in desperation I put up a plea on our SM forum, lo and behold one of the guys was meandering through southern France in his Spyder and was intent on visiting Italy for some vaguely spurious reason, so I gave him one!

48 hours later, he phoned me from outside the sellers house giving me a cap by cap description of each one. The sellers mother invited him in for a coffee and they conversed via google translator on his phone.....:)

They are currently in Nice and will make there way back to London over the next week.

Am as pleased as punch, and a big thanks to the SM member for his kindness and generosity.


P

That is what it is all about. We all help someone, anyone in any way we can and someone, anyone will help us. What goes round comes round !!!

                                    Andy

Couldn't have put it better myself Andy....thanks

P

Why is it that postage is SO expensive from Italy ? I bought a spanner for the Aprilia. It cost 7 euros and the post was another 12 - we are so close, he could have thrown it to me !

Genuinely expensive, or something else ..... ? 

The Italians consider everything thats made in Italy should stay in Italy......;)

Sometimes it depends on who you are dealing with and what they are selling and of course where its being sent to. I had a spare wheel sent to Surrey, for less than the hub caps were going to be sent for!


P

Finally, the carcass of the B 12 has been moved to its temporary home for the next 6 months or so.

Engine strip down to begin in autumn, still accruing bits and bobs over the net, a big thanks to a sterling member of the forum for a few contacts.

P

Alfa sold.....he phoned at 4.30....drove 75 miles..............left here at 7.30 in the little cutie...............things move on.....


P

TWO empty slots?  Are you safe on the internet at the moment?

David

Don't worry, have asked BT to put a block on all vehicular sales sites.....;)


P

.....so where was I?

Oh yes....restoring a Lancia B12............

My body man is slowly but surely working away at the B12, learning its peculiarities as he goes and devoting time to it as and when.

Bill Lewis is kindly making the complete boot floor and double skinned rear valance as I type, hoping to have them in a few weeks time, by which time the driver side will mostly be completed.

Lots of tidying up needs doing too!

P

Sorry two of those are sideways on.........the boot floor from Bill

P

Great to see the progress, the boot floor in place will be a real boost - I'm sure

Bon Courage !

Brilliant Frank !!!!  Well done on the progress, a real morale booster.  Do keep the photos coming,

I can see why everyone thinks the saloon is more of a challenge than the coupe in the restoration stakes.

Best wishes,

                     Andy

Work is continuing gentlemen, albeit at a slow pace, but thankfully due to a few good leads off members on this forum I've located and finally (I have fingers Xed) negotiated a deal with a guy on the continent for lots of hard to find bits.

Plus a very decent front bumper in the UK, good front seat and not so good rear seat.

And just yesterday located a great pair of front indicators in Italy which he has sent to my rental address in Lucca for collection. These are the first pair I've seen for sale in 2 plus years.

May should prove a fulcrum month, when my body guy gets to the 2/3rd point then finish soon after as he'd like a few quid!


P

I had a spare front B20 seat that went to Ron Francis I think.  The reason I mention it is that it had a really well made fitted cover with map pockets on the backs.  It was the sort of "period feature" you just don't see these days and to my mind more the pity.

An idea for you...

David

So, as it turns out my body man hadn't done very much in the the last 3 months and then 3 weeks ago he had a heart attack, hes on the mend fortunately but asked me to move the project onto someone else.

Over the last few weeks I have been making quite a few phone calls and showing the B12 to several interested parties. Finally tonight after some negotiation I've agreed a price and timeframe with the guy who would have been doing the painting anyways and I will move the B12 to his premises next week.

Timeframe to finish welding is a mere 4 weeks. He's then away for a fortnight, paintwork to be completed in September...RESULT!

I will keep in touch with him and put up lots of pics. Thanks again to several forum members for guidance and help, in particular James.

Watch this space.


P

Cool....September eh !    You'll get a great confidence boost to see a freshly painted shell.

Kevin.....can almost taste it! Hes a bit further away, but I can pass by once a week, plus my mechanic is a bit closer and he can keep an eye on things.

Then me and my mechanic can meetup on Monday next to decide order of play over next 3 months.

P

Life is never straightforward Frank and I am glad that you have found a way forward.  September is not far away, looks like you will be on the road before me!!

Good luck with the new man and here's to good progress.

                                            Andy

True Andy. He's Hungarian, been here for 8 odd years, works at a bodyshop which specialises in the local rally car scene, repairs them, fabricates all himself and even fabricating aluminium panels.

I believe his only words when he arrived here were, yes/no and "I can fix it". Hes so valued that the owner lets him work his own hours and gets time off regularly to do his own projects. His heart though is in "Oldtimer" cars so thats where he's headed, I think I 've gotten in ahead of the pack!

Not sure I'll be getting the B 12 on the road before you, but I hope to be very well on by the years end.

Cheers


P

At last the B12 is on its way to its new home for the next 2 months.......work to restart this weekend, timetable has been agreed and price......


P

Its a good job I like looking at bits of Lancia structure given what I've got (somewhere...) ahead of me.

I'm salivating at yours!!

David

....isn't that breaking a commandment David, coveting thy Lancisti's goods......;)


P

Fast forward 3 months and the promise of having it in paint by end of September seems a little hollow.

However he has been working at it over the last few weeks and no doubt the temptation and or need for some dosh as Xmas approaches might just be spurning my bodywork guy  on.

I'll be taking a looksee tomorrow, watch this space or more likely the one beneath it!


P

Frank, I think we are both finding that the expansion of time involved in Lancia restoration is even greater than that for building restoration, probably by a factor of 10!!!!. I had previously thought that programme times for building works were always laughable, but compared with that for my cars they appear quite credible!!!!

All rather worrying!!

Good luck and keep chivvying.

                           Andy

You've been watching too many episodes of Homes under the Hammer Andy............quite startling sometimes.

Been gathering up a few more bits and bobs as the months have passed anyways.

P

One word..................................






:)


P

Fellow Lancisiti, I am pleased to announce that my project is moving forward again.


The guy doing the bodywork had a few delays already built into his schedule since last July, between going back to Hungary and a new baby now out of the way, hes gotten around to spending a few hours on the B12.

Firstly he felt he had to redo the previous body guy's work, which then took longer to do than he thought, plus correct and fettle other panels.

Now hes over the 2/3s point hes gotten a degree of momentum and feels in a few weeks will have it ready for prepping to paint.

Relief all around!


P


PS A few pics to follow

As promised -



P

.......more.....excuse the red rash on these......


P

.....metal strip to go in below windscreen being pre-formed......


P

Progress indeed - looking forward to further updates !

Some real progress there and fascinating stuff.  I like the size of the hammer in the boot.

David

....thats his smallest hammer too......;)


P

That is looking excellent Frank. I think you will be in paint before me at this rate!!!

Am I right in thinking that boot lid is all original with no work required at all? If that is so we had better not tell Jim!!!!

Hope the momentum is maintained. Best wishes,

                                       Andy

Yup Andy, doors, bonnet, boot lid, rear wings all aluminium.........:)....strip 'em and paint 'em!


P

I had no idea, you are a lucky so and so. Keep at it !!!

                          Andy

Luck had nothing to do with it Andy, all carefully planned.......;)


P

From the details very kindly supplied by Ade, it appears my B12 was finished on the 23rd December 1954, but only registered on the 31st October 1955 in Portugal.

Was it usual to have such a gap  or could it have been registered in another country first?

P

Only 10 months to sell a new B12........ in Portugal......... in the mid 50's.  I bet they had a party at the office when they finally sold it.   It would have been a very expensive car when new.

My Aurelia was sent to Pinin Farina on the 28-07-51. Then sent back to Lancia for the engine to exchanged for a larger 2000cc engine on the 29-06-52 and it was finally registered in Omegna on the 15-05-53. So by the time it was actually sold the chassis was 2 years old!!  Puts that story of unsold Beta Coupes sitting in a field into perspective!!

That is a load of Castor and ****** ( a friendly constellation)!!!!!

                    Andy

Modestine went to Pinin Farina to be bodied 12th February 1932 returning 4th March when it was road tested. It was not purchased by Paul Einzig and registered in England until 10th March 1937 so, 5 years waiting for a buyer!

Paul Einzig lived in Ashurst Wood, the 2nd owner, Philip Glynn was living in Ashurst Wood when I bought the Dilambda from him in 2002 and 3 years ago I moved to Ashurst Wood. So, Modestine's 3 owners with no connection to each other whatsoever have all lived in the same little Sussex village!

Robin.

Thats very interesting Robin, you truly couldn't make it all up.


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Further progress, enclosing panels in situ for front and end sill areas.

Windscreen lower edge of frame repaired and in situ. Now nearing stage of checking alignment of wings, fettling front grille aperture, making bumper support tubes/arms.

Hes hoping to only having some wing work to do come saturday! Indeed he tells me hes left his full time job at his body shop and going down the "old timer" route,  much prefers being self employed and has lined up a couple of Triumphs to work on!


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Popped down today ( sorry left camera behind for him to use this next couple of weeks), more tidying up done, checking on alignments, he had to redo a few more areas that the previous guy "did", but better being done now than in a few weeks time!

The grille aperture won't take much work to get to fit. The spare rear wings will hopefully fit so no aluminium cutting and welding needed to refit rear indicators. The fronts will have the foglight apertures remade on one side to house the foglights correctly. Agreed a single colour finish on wheels, plus clarified body colour on dashboard.


P

Still no photos....but they will appear!

Grille fits fine with some adjustment.....even in etch primer it looks fabulous. Door closes all checked, part of roof support fixed. Sparewheel well to be finished.

Still a few of items noted above to do, but hes moving them on, left down the other spare rear wings I got off a member of forum, they are a better shape and in better overall condition then originals, plus we won't have to re-cut new apertures for indicators.

Needs now to re-sand blast total shell and strip aluminium areas prior to etch priming again and and then preparing for filler coat. This will take best part of week/10 days. I also had to leave down inner windscreen frame and steering column cover as they are in body paint colour too.

He'd taken the dashboard (with original colour buffed up on it) up to his paint guy and they'd gone through 8/9/10 shades....took back a sample tin........in fluorescent light it was quite purple but in daylight...it was wow!

Test card to be sprayed up week after next........:)


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Brilliant progress Frank, you are definitely pushing on. We just need the photographs so that we can go oooh and aaah!!!

                           Andy

Well done ! Looking forward to pictures ....

your engine so far, pictures are not great , I forgot my camera so they are off my phone , 1st Aurelia engine I've worked on and must say its a work of art , the castings are phenomenal and I really want a timing case cover for my mantle piece ! , j

Even to my untrained/non-technical eye James its looks perfect.........in need of a lot of TLC!

P


PS And no you can't keep the timing case cover for your mantlepiece!

bit more progress on your engine, 3 cylinders are rusted up solid, had a bit of a struggle disconnecting the very back rod as it was rusted solid and you can see from the pictures difficult to access , took the main bearings off and lifted the crank (with rod attached) to undo the big end cap , to be fair its been a reasonable engine, all bar the very rear (problematic) big end were very good, mains were pretty good too, if it hadn't been rusted up you probably would have ran it , the 3 pistons removed were pretty easy however the remaining 3 are solid , intension is to remove the liners with the pistons in and then try to remove the pistons out of the bottom as 2 are right at the bottom of the bore , they will not come out in situe as the pistons will hit the crank case , I will try and get some more done next weekend , must say lovely engine to work on and so far straight forward , I fully realise that the studs and liners can be an issue , cross that bridge next , engine needs a thorough clean before I go much further, j     

more

Next phase!!!

Am I allowed to say wow......?!?!?!?...its motoring along nicely James, its certainly an impressive piece of Italian engineering!

Yes studs and solidified bits might slow things down, thanks for pics too, can't wait for further weekly up-dates.

P

Any idea what diameter the existing pistons are and how worn the piston rings grooves are? You will then be able to make a judgement on whether new pistons are needed and whether the liners can be bored or new ones bought.
In the old days, with sloppy rings due to piston ring groove wear  one could get the ring grooves widened and fit thicker rings but I cant see the point these days with complete new pistons being available at a reasonable price versus labour costs (+ risk of overheated land between the wider grooves) of machining old pistons.
I also always find it exciting (maybe its just me!) seeing how much crud comes out of the crankshaft having removed the aluminium plugs.
Keep us updated please.
Chris

100% won't be re-using these pistons as the liners are worn , when you look up (on the 3 cylinders I can inspect) you can see the wear/distortion along its length , will check how thick the liners are and see if we can bore and fit alternative pistons , will have to remove the liners anyway to get 3 pistons out that are honestly solid , I imagine the liners will be quite pitted where the pistons have seized , the 3 pistons that have come out don't look bad but I have not had time to measure anything up on it yet , its obviously been to pieces before as various tab washers were broken and screws chewed so I doubt any of the bottom end is standard

Pssssssst.........word has it, theres been some progress......will report back next week.


 :)


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Question.

Anyone know if the 4th-6th series exhaust manifolds for a B20 will fit a B12 ( knowing that there are some commonalities but not sure if any for engine/exhaust parts)?

Part no - B20 1400A

Thanks


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Heads being skimmed, valves seat hardened, general checking over.

Obtaining quotes for engine parts and asking a few guys in the LMC whats in their respect parts bins!

My body guy has done the main work to car and hes just moved to a new workshop which hes currently kitting out, so October may be the month it gets painted!!!!

Forever watching this space!



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Sorry, no photos at moment, the valve seats are brass/bronze, so don't need hardened. However another small repair was required, easily carried out, both heads should be back at workshop next week.

After that the remaining 3 pistons and liners will be removed for further evaluation of block and requirements. Crankshaft is in good order and needs a polish as does the camshaft, also in good order.

Currently getting quotes from several sources for other rebuild parts, hoping to know more by the start of next month.


P


PS Was lucky enough to come across a refurbed front indicator in the UK, just took 3 years to find!

 .... a mere three years!!! You will probably find another one next month!!!!

So glad to hear it's all coming on well, you are lucky to have a good crank and to get the heads repaired. I hope that was not too expensive!!

                            Andy

Not too bad at all Andy, just a re-skim and clean up, maybe something else required but decent enough, plus not overly expensive.

I'd bought a job lot of some parts including a spare camshaft which is much the same as the one from my engine, so happy enough. Plus discovered a few more spares sources in the meantime.


P

A quick up-date with the magic of photos to accompany.

Final two pistons removed and now liners starting to yield, 4 to go, plenty of corrosion evident but what else did I expect.

Gathering up engine rebuild parts, some already there, some on their way, others delayed due to Padova autojumble or indeed sudden price changes.


PS So just what am I doing up at 3am, gotta a plane to catch!

Are you using a 'liner drawer-outer'? Easy to fabricate and very effective. I can only see a hammer. You have the fun of the studs still to come I see.
Keep up the good work - what's the body looking  like now?
Chris

Not sure of exact technique being used, as in a couple of posts above, moving imperceptably....

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Things moving along, would anyone like to hazard a guess as to how many studs broke during the strip down?

Will pop up a few photos later

P

Well, I sheared 5 on my head so anything better than that is a result .......
           
                                 Andy

Just the one...giving the remainder a check over.


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Result!!!!

Photos as promised. You wanted corrosion..........??!!

 ::)

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The heads have been returned, seats rebuilt cut, valve guides sleeved, one area of corrosion welded, valves recut and finally heads skimmed.

Photos to follow

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Heads photos.............




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Last one.


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That is a beautiful job, those heads are just wonderful. I just hope that mine get somewhere near that!!!!

Well done James. Frank, you are a lucky man!!!

                               Andy

Lovely - how is the rest coming on ?

The rest............what do you mean??!!




Theres more to be done.....?!


...... but surely Simon you read the prologue post to this thread......stolen from Clive Beattys "Fifty-five years of dirty hands".........


"The 55 year restoration!"


 ;D


As above in an earlier post my body guy has used excuses not to get from A to B I've not come across before....to be fair, hes quit his full time job, moved premises, family issues etc......but seriously, its just been endless phone calls and visits to see not much more being done, there isn't a huge amount to be done bar painting, I am to contact him next week, who knows Xmas is around the corner!


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There should be a book of those lines - I'd give it the title "Glad you called..."

So a pow-wow was held two weeks ago, certain heads were hung in shame, damp kleenex tissues were rustled in a manly fashion.

Middle aged faces with hang dog looks gave away the game..........least mine anyways, basically not very happy

 >:(

 :-\

Outcome?

Its been mostly re sand blasted and the lower portion repainted in protective black paint, the remainder done next week, then its off to his new premises, for further preparation. The aluminium panels have been lightly blasted and a few small welding jobs are required, these are also in the schedule. Who would have thought waving brown envelopes full of £20 notes would have this effect at this time of the year.......;)

Could 2016 be the year........??!!!


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This looks a tad promising......;)


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...a few more.....


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...and.......sorry some aren't great quality.......plus can't load too many at once!


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Hoping some more done in last few days too, will be visiting workshop early next week!


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Excellent Frank. Some real progress there!!! The more photographs the better!!!

My heads are away to see if they might be brought back from the brink!!!!

                               Andy

So, body/paint guy moved to 2nd new premises in 5 mths, now doing a bit!

He assures me that it will be in an undercoat in about a fortnights time........


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A few more....


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And.......


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Although I've not seen the doors, bonnet, boot lid for a while, I'm assured these will also be ready to be undercoated by then too.

Hoping I can get engine to the point of being ready to reassemble shortly as well!


P

So where was  I?

Oh, yes, my body guy decided to move house in late February, so nothing done since! He was also going to get the doors back from the guy who was to weld the small cracks in the aluminium, but guess what, they haven't been touched either, so hoping when I phone tomorrow to go visit, some work will have been done.


Now the engine.....thats another story........




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The engine.........

In the last few weeks we have managed to remove the 3 seized liners from the block by heating the block to expand it around the liners , unfortunately much time was wasted trying to free the pistons out of the last 2 liners to save the liners for reuse, however this was not possible and liners had to be split to release pistons so that we could salvage the con rods without damage, this we were able to do successfully as seen in first couple of photos.

The 4 used liners where masked up and shot blasted as they were corroded externally , these where then sent away with 2 new liners to be bored to suit the new pistons which are slightly oversized, we then had the problem of getting the correct "O" rings for the liners , these where also sourced and are now ready to fit , much time has been spent cleaning out the corrosion in the block , if the forum can recall we managed to get away with only one stud shearing off and a banjo bolt into the water jacket shearing off, even though 2 hours were spent trying to remove the banjo it finally gave up and snapped, it took a total of 4 hrs  (2 men 2hrs) to remove stud and banjo without damage to the block, still unhappy with the corrosion in the block we decided to mask it up and shot blast it , then a crack was discovered which has now been repaired. This has now been milled to accept the new core plug.

The block will be lacquered, remainder outer parts cleaned up/blasted and rocker covers wrinkle finished as original and indeed to add to the aesthete of an Aurelia V6.

Everything going to schedule this week will seen the start of the rebuild, indeed I will visit James's in his workshop on Friday to be present for part of the same, to say I'm very pleased and indeed excited at this moment is an understatement!


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.....more.....


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.....and.....



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......and even.....


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..........hhhhmmmmm....


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Wow !

That is brilliant Frank!!! Real progress on both body and engine fronts.

I am pleased that you are at the 'putting it back together' stage. I have yet to hear whether the second head from my engine may be saved!!

Good luck with it all and have a great day on Friday.

                                            Andy

In light of Chris's thread, just a fuller update, my engine is progressing, a few issues raised their ugly heads, but in an engine which hadn't any protection for 65yrs, they weren'tnt the biggest of surprises plus its now a much older engine than those rebuilt in the 80/90s.

A lot of accessing and clearing of all channels, tubes and nooks and crannies was required.

So, liners all in, crank and camshafts in, now replacing a few more bushes to allow remainder of build to take place, have to wait a week for those, they then need fettling before fitting.

So the next few weeks should see an end in sight bar any other hiccups.

P

PS Tried posting some pics off my phone but couldn't.

Take 2, 3 or 4, forgotten how many times I've attempted to upload some pics!

First batch...

P

More body pics........he said he would have it in primer shortly, shall I run a sweepstake about the likelihood?!

P

PS Apols for lasts gratuitous photo!

And now a few of the engine.

There have been a number of niggly and unforeseen issues which have added delays running into 3/4 weeks over the last few months which I wont go into, but hoping we are on the home straight now.

There was the slightest of wear in the con rod bearings so a new batch gotten off Omicron to speed things up and they've been sent off for reaming as required. Also a slight difference in cam followers which may need some adjusting too!


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More.


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Things are motoring along now.......bottom end completed, some fettling of studs etc on top of block then heads will finally be back in place!


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And........


P

Delays of 3/4 weeks - I've been waiting on an Aprilia engine for 18 months .....

Looking great !

...last batch.......

Meanwhile my body/paint guy hasn't been so industrious......ie nothing much done since last report!


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What a work of art...

Well the Tate gallery aint getting it!

James has taken get care and lavished great attention to this rebuild, am very pleased


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You spelt Tate incorrectly!!!!

                    Andy (Tait)

S*D the Olympics!

Once again, James rises above the humdrum of what goes on in the rest of the world..........just fabulous......


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Quoting off Jame's Facebook ...plus taking the photos from there too.......

"Today I decided to do some work on the Aurelia engine, the bottom end was near complete however we have changed the original worn out steel cam followers for cast iron type which don't suffer as badly for wear, the iron followers are shorter overall length however have a thicker Base, this and the fact that the heads and block have been skimmed caused uncertainty with valve clearance so I decided to build the engine with old used gaskets first to make sure I could get tappet clearance comfortably, once satisfied I stripped it down again and rebuilt with new gaskets, 3 of the special domed head nuts are knackered so I have used ordinary m8x1 nuts temporarily until replacements are sourced"


P

....and......even more........to say I'm delighted is an understatement, short of winning an Olympic gold......!


P

On Tuesday last I collected my B12 engine ( plus a hoard of other bits/parts etc) James had kindly stored for me.

Its been a journey in lots of ways but am very pleased with outcome and now having an engine which just needs a few more hours spent on it before its ready to go into my B12 (which may be a while though!)

So if I may again, thank James and his dad and also Jame's mum for their professionalism, patience and kindness during this aspect of my B12 restoration!


P

Elegantly simple design. No need to rush fitting it as it is a piece of art in no uncertain terms!

A few more....

Excellent, huge progress!! Nice to have those little finishing off jobs to do while the body is completed!!

Good luck with it all,

                            Andy

Build a little turntable for it ?  A delight to behold...

Elegant indeed! :) I once saw one with a glass top fitted and used as a table in the reception area of a very impressive private collection of Italian cars. The collection included a diverse range of makes and models including many rare Lancias and of course a Dilambda.

Sadly I didn't photograph the table, the Dilambda some of you will no doubt recognise.

Robin.

Hhhhmmmm.........I might even break even if this is the new current market pricing level.........or I suspect its wishful thinking!!

http://ww3.autoscout24.it/classified/297198145?asrc=st|as


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The price probably reflects the low mileage. It's barely run in.

A good B12 is a lovely car but a bad one is potentially very expensive to make good.......and its not certain that one will ever make it good if there is metalwork in the A, sill and C post area. Mind you, long term B12 owners all seem to really love their cars. Refined, powerful, rigid and quiet are adjectives which spring to move mind.
There are several cars for sale in Italy at the moment but really good ones are few and far between.
Chris

Thought we'd strip down the clutch to see the condition of a number of parts and overall condition, as you can see we fractured the outer clutch cover, we were expecting to see the tiniest of movements indicating the pressure was lessen on the circlip to remove same, but didn't hence over tightening, oh well.

Needless to say evidence of work/changed plates being done previously, lots of oil everywhere too!

P

PS Chasing body man again, will visit next week, all fingers and toes Xed at this stage!

Couple more pics

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More, can only load 2 at a time

P

If I recall, the clutch was always the slightly weak link on an Aurelia

Please, remember to check if the clutch pressure plate is absolutely flat and not concave. If it only bears on the outer edge you will get problems with a slipping clutch. It took me some time to realize that this was the reason why I could not start the car on a slope.  Slight machining did the job.

As you say Frank, oil everywhere ..... still, you can now put that right permanently!!!

Regarding Niels' point, I will try to find a photograph of the pressure plate from my car ..... the pressure plate is, well I think the easiest way to describe it is, something like a brake disc!! The disc is between 6 and 10mm thick if I remember correctly. The plate on mine, far from being concave was convex, having been machined down to less than 3mm thick at the edge!!! Fortunately I have been able to obtain another complete clutch!!!

Frank it is great to see that you are getting at it! We will overcome .... eventually!!!!

                                          Andy

Thanks Andy and Niels, will get my mechanic to run his eye over and use a steel ruler or what ever works best to ensure said flatness, plus what is the normal thickness for the pressure plate or is anything between 6-10mms thick acceptable?

P

I cant give you the full answer on the amount which can be skimmed off both friction surfaces but if too much is removed the clutch springs wont be able to do their job even with washers behind them resulting in clutch slip.
Its not the easiest things to get a small batch of longer springs made particularly as the inners and outers are wound in different directions to avoid binding!
Chris

Thanks Chris, so the minimum or acceptable thickness they'd need to have?

P

Having spent some time trying to sort out clutch parts for an Aurelia owner in the last couple of weeks, Niels' point about flatness of the pressure surfaces is well made.
I found several where the outer edge 'fell away'  - i.e the outer 15mm or so seemed to have worn by more than the area inside this circumference. No real idea why and easily rectified by a light skim but not easy to see particularly on the clutch component - Part 11 in TAV27 - with the pressure surface on the inside bottom.
Chris

Frank,
Thank you for the article on your car in this month's Viva Lancia.
It really shows the huge amount of work you had to undertake up to now. I am looking forward to Part 2, hopefully soon to come, and the installments on the Forum!

Just a small remark: in the last picture of the article you show a cylinder head which is clearly B20, with the new valve arrangement devised by Franco de Virgilio to increase horsepower for the 2nd series B20. your B12 has the coplanar valve system, taken from the earlier B10 and B21.
I enclose a picture of B12 heads, after refurbishment.

Sebastien, thank you for your kind words.

Its only when its all condensed down into a few pages that you realise just what a journey its been!

The article isn't quite as submitted, plus there was an issue with the photos not opening for the publisher, so not entirely sure where the B20 heads photo came from either!

Still phoning my body/paint guy, think hes on hols, oh well.

P

Has it been 15 months since my last post?

Whilst football may not be coming home, word on the Lancia grapevine is that a certain Aurelia might be heading in the direction of my home!

After endless visits, numerous excuses and reasons why nothing had been done, lots of sheepish looks, embarrassing silences, shuffling of feet, cajoling and then a semi-ultimatum, some progress has been made. The ice breaker as it nearly always is was money, during a visit in May I manfully broached the subject, eye contact was made, a faint smile crossed my body/paint guys face, he looked at the silent, grey, uncared for carcass of my B12, panels scattered around his workshop, then back to me and a figure slipped from his lips.

Having failed my GCSE negotiating skills and tactics "O" level (think I got and "F"), and not truly having an idea if the figure mentioned was reasonable or unreasonable , I remained silent for at least a couple of minutes, I looked at him, looked at the B12, then back at him. Batted back at him the need for a timetable and transparency in moving it all on and then a further period of silence as I attempted to master the art of the pregnant pause without appearing obtuse.

Having been made so many promises before, (the first one five years ago that it would take him three to four months) I was understandably very, very hesitant to agree to anything but pragmatism takes over in the end.

A deal was struck, I didn't quibble at all, thinking that he was going to ask for quite a bit more and we then shook hands. Smiles all round, I left his premises not entirely sure of how it would all pan out.

More to follow.

P

What sort of timetable are you working to now Frank?
Chris

Still a tad stop start Chris, hes plagued with difficulty in employing suitable guys, currently he's got an older retired guy working on the B12, but intermittently ( ie hes had recent surgery) been off for a fortnight after he'd done a few days work and should be coming back this week.

So over the last few weeks hes done welding to the aluminium doors, re-instated the indicator apertures on the wings that came with the B12 (cut out from a spare set) and been isoponing the doors and rear wings, so these have moved on quite a bit.

I live in a twilight zone between despair and hopeful expectation!
P

Same wing, files a bit big apols!

P

Other side.

More.

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It’s getting there. Long deep breaths. 

It's looking great, Frank! I'll wager that you can't wait to see the body in primer......!!!
 
I can almost picture you heading up the north coast in your B12  8)
 
Best regards,
Tim

The odds on that wager Tim are atom thin...... any coast would do, maybe more suited to being the first Aurelia B12 to tame the Wild Atlantic Way, all 1500 kms of it!!!

OK maybe not all at once, but in 3 sections.

P

https://www.wildatlanticway.com/home

2500km...   Just looked up Land's End to John o'Groats and routes are in the range 1400km to 1900km.

So they've added another 1000km to it to make sure the B12 is run in, typical ;D

P

Frank is it anything like the insert that fits a in the windscreen rubber to expand the rubber, if so there is a special wire tool shaped like a diamond specifically designed to fit this strip.
My lack of knowledge of Aurelias is such that I can't visualise the problem in question, can you post photos please.
Brian
8227  8)

Brian, its so long ago I'll have to get back to you, but am sure its the same on the B10 William is restoring which he found to be the most vexatious thing he had to do so far!

P

My body guy had gone back to Hungary for 10 days or so, he drives, combining business with pleasure. He was hardly back a week when he got news of a close friends very premature death, hence a second trip in a month.

The guy he had helping him wasn't much of a help after all as some of the work had to be gone over, but gone over it was, so currently the doors, bonnet, boot lid and rear wings are all prepped. Leaving just the roof and front wings, which he's getting stuck into over the next two weeks, happy days are here again.

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More

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More, as for 1 at a time

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More

More

To put all this into context, I'd not seen the front wings in approximately 4 years, so it was like being re-united with a long lost family member! Sincerely hope he keeps it up, roll on, a belated by a mere  5 1/2 years, Xmas present!

P

Looking good Frank.
"Keep the Faith"
Brian
8227
 8)

Hi Frank,

Sorry about the ever so slow response to this question.

I think that if you have the aluminium strip in place then you're at an advantage in that the position of the channel will be correct.

As far as the fitting of the seal goes, I have heard of people sliding the seal in (using a lubricant such as washing-up liquid!) but, having fitted the modern replacement plastic channels, I found that the only way to get the rubbers was to use a flat screwdriver and lever in a few millimeters of the rubber at a time. Slow but it works.

That said, i think i'm going to have to refit the lhs seals (not the ones in the channels, but the other one, that covers the 'seam' inside the main seal channel) as they are fouling on the doors.

Oh, and the new centre seals are far too thick and inflexible compared to the one original one I have, so much so that they can stop the first of the two doors closed opening again, if you see what I mean. Does anyone here will experience of pillarless lancia center seals know of a supplier of a better type of 'L' section rubber?

Great to see progress on the bodywork of your car.

W

Thanks Brian and William, plus useful info William, always appreciated.

Just realising as I made my way home there wasn't an opening for the front wing indicators, so I've just reminded my body man to rectify, we'd already done the same for the rear wings.


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Just re-read all of this post Frank to gather tips for my new Aurelia Sedan project.
It makes interesting reading.
I hope you are continuing to make progress.
Chris

Yeah, it makes for some reading!

Will be updating it soon as a wettish week ahead, please keep a handkerchief to hand.

P

So where was I? Maybe time for a recap for the new readers of this thread!

Oh yes, restoring a 1955 Lancia Aurelia B12 SII Berlina, which had made its way to Enniskillen by a quite circuitous route from Porto Portugal, both in time and cost many moons ago.

The first guy to attempt the body work on the B12 in late 2013 , found himself a bit out of his depth. So in July 2014 I selected a guy from Hungary who'd made his home here about 10 years and ago and had a decent reputation on both the body work and painting fronts. He said 6 months to complete which I though was reasonable and suited me time and payment schedule wise. Work ticked along at a decent pace to start with, but then stopped, then started and stopped over the last five years, yes 5 years. Despite much cajoling and understanding why there were delays from moving premises 3 times, bouts of dermatitis, several children being born and an operation or two; never mind the promise of an extra wedge of dosh, the work slowed down to a stop and as of last week to a dead stop.


I think it was in William Corkes blog or restoration thread where I'd read about his B10 and all its trials tribulations, dwelling on the moment when he got news that the paint or body shop he'd sent the car to had gone into administration and he'd better retrieve his B10 pronto or he could be in trouble and the mad scramble to ensure all his parts could be found and returned to him, well guess what happened to the B12?

The guy phoned to say he was getting some work done to his workshop and could I move the B12 temporarily to a safer located for 2/3 weeks, I thought the request a bit strange, he'd previously stated he was going on holiday so I reckoned his workshop would be empty anyways and it was plenty large to move the B12 into one area and then another as work progressed. But little did I realise he was planning to decamp lock, stock and barrel back to his home land, with no true explanation or doing the decent thing and giving me proper notice. Luckily he'd left the keys with a local guy who'd he also left with a list of parts to return to me. Naturally the list has only of about half of what was actually there plus my boot handles had gone AWOL, even though I'd searched high and low.

So after several attempts I've now moved my B12 from his desolate, rubbish strewn premises, its currently stored in a mate of my sons who knows several paint guys who he can ask to take over and hopefully finish this chapter of my restoration. Its been a stressful and unfortunate period but I intend to gird my loins and push on!

P

PS Anyone got a spare set of boot handles they'd consider selling?

PPSS The front wings and one rear wing are inside the body shell!

Sorry to hear your tale of woe Frank, that's a real bummer, hope you get it sorted soon with no further problems.
My Fay was promised in 6 months but took 2 years, despite many attempts to Gee him up, eventually he decamped to France with his new squeeze, but junking my spares donor car, with many of his own cars.
But at least I did get Fay back and running after 23 years off the road.
Brian
8227  8)

What a real pain in the bum, unfortunately it is story we hear too often.

No handles I'm afraid, but get it down here and Dog can finish it for you !

Simon, ferry booked, please put kettle on for my arrival on Thursday morning  ;D

Up-date, due to the chaos/rush, lots of small boxes and containers, plus a layer of dust that Tutankhamen would have felt at home with, I found the lock side of the boot handles. Also coming to light were the 4 roof bolts and a half dozen other small parts.


P

Bad luck Parisien. A chum lost the crankshaft of his engine with a rebuilder who went bust. Perhaps the answer is to keep pestering and aware of what's going on. Mind you one of the well known UK crankshaft manufacturers managed to lose my flywheel and a big end cap and he's still in business - but not for me!!

Mike

Sorry to read of this, but I'm sure that with a bit of help and support all will be well in the end.

I'm glad you got the car back, Frank. You'll probably find that most of your parts are present.
Can you get back in to the premises to conduct another search of the buildings?
I wish you well!
Tim
 
PS I decided to keep my restoration 'in-house', but I never seem to make any progress! I need a motivational course from Simon I.....!!!

Commiserations Frank, I feel your pain. I'm sure you'll be able to find a better body shop and get the job done.
Best,
William

Thank you gentlemen, have one guy lined up to look at plus another local firm, hoping to find a third to give some perspective.


P

More commiserations Frank. What a tale of woe! My restoration of a B10 has come to a halt while I mend the Lambda and Augusta, but should be moving again soon. Noting the price of Aurelia spare parts and difficulty finding them, I'm tempted to go and dig up the B12, B20 and Augusta bodies I buried in about 1970 if I can find the field in Berkshire!

Probably a housing estate now! Richard Thorne has a cache of Aurelia spares.....

No problem John, am quite handy with a spade, shovel or other digging implements, let me know a time and place!

I'm on the trail of the few spares required, so should be ok, but out of pocket on a number of levels after this episode.

P

Spent  several hours cleaning up/out the caked, layered workshop dust, especially from the inside, in readiness for the paint guys inspection.


P

A couple more.

P

Did you have much trouble removing the external brightwork trims around the door glasses? The steel screws are tiny and can be a devil because of inevitable corrosion between them and the aluminium doors. And then refitting them!!
Also, are the beadings between the wings and body in good order?
Chris

Took quite a bit of time, quite delicate, but successful. Yes beading all intact and am sure will polish up well.

P

Trying still to sort a body paint guy to take on B12, have an offer to finish it but he's 200 miles away, plus rates in RoI are I suspect 50-100% more than in NI. Currently on paint guy no 12, maybe  no 13 will be lucky.

Two guys failed to come and view, two guys are thinking about it. In mean time have more or less tracked down replacement indicator and boot no plate part.

P

PS Never mind Simons kind offer!

So in interim, decided to refurb water pump and starter.

As you can see from pics, it's not gone well, upon trying to open body, fractures developed, plus internals severely corroded, new pump required I'm afraid.

P

Can't load more than one at a time. Does the B12 have an un-pressurised system, any one Know if Cavalitto repair kit was updated as perhaps the supplied kit differs?

P

That's a shame Frank. And it looks like you have some deep corrosion in the pump body as well.
I have good castings and completely rebuilt pumps if you want.
Chris

Frozen solid, but been that way long before I got the B12, thanks for the offer Chris appreciated.

P