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Title: Getting the date of manufacture for my Fulvia? Post by: niko14311 on 05 October, 2012, 07:57:26 PM Hello,
My name is Nick and i've just joined the LMC, I've been working on my restoration project for the past two years (on and off) but am finally getting near. Hopefully ready for an MOT soon and this got me thinking about getting it taxed . . . It is registered as a 73 but I think from the chassis number it is more likely to have been made mid 72. I wondered if anybody had any ideas how I can date this? Not only would it be good to know for reference but I wouldnt complain if it would mean it would be free road tax! Any body tried this before? If anybody would like me to put some more pics up just let me know :) Thanks in advance Nick Title: Re: Getting the date of manufacture for my Fulvia? Post by: rogerelias on 05 October, 2012, 08:22:48 PM Hi Nick, and welcome to the Lancia Motor Club. :) I have a Fulvia coupe 1600HF that I am putting back together slowly. So quick question, how easy is it to put the rear side window rubbers in ??? As for dating I don't know how to date it, if it is registered before August 1st 1973 I think it will be tax free, but if I am wrong I am sure someone on here will let me know. Put some pics up. and good luck finding your answer. Roger
Title: Re: Getting the date of manufacture for my Fulvia? Post by: niko14311 on 05 October, 2012, 08:34:58 PM Hi Roger,
Nice to hear I'm not the only one on a long term project! How is it coming along? To be honest I had a friend that runs a bodyshop do the bodywork as it's not my forte to be honest! I don't think it was a very difficult job, just fiddly than nothing's Just a matter of getting the glass out or in and pushing it into the rubber and setting it correctly. Hope that helps, may be worth having a look at the tav on it, may help. Thanks Nick Title: Re: Getting the date of manufacture for my Fulvia? Post by: lancialulu on 05 October, 2012, 09:44:44 PM Nick
Welcome to LMC! Your chassis is well into 2nd series production of 49656 cars which I am advised included 4440 Monte Carlo's. Production ran from 1970 to 74. Your best bet is to write to Barbara Longlands - Club Secretary who deals with all dating. You need to achieve a manufacture date prior to 31/12/72 to get tax free status. I managed this with my Sport but it was registered in Jan 73! good luck Tim Title: Re: Getting the date of manufacture for my Fulvia? Post by: northfawley on 06 October, 2012, 09:07:22 AM Hi Nick
Sadly yours was built in 73.Chassis numbers were from 41682-55834 in 73 Regards Simon Title: Re: Getting the date of manufacture for my Fulvia? Post by: fay66 on 07 October, 2012, 12:09:55 PM Hi Nick Hi Simon,Sadly yours was built in 73.Chassis numbers were from 41682-55834 in 73 Regards Simon I'd be interested to know the source of the information you used, I'd agree anyway as it seems to be something like over halfway through the build from 1970-1976, chassis number range 1001-79922, as qouted in 2nd edition of 'La Lancia', but I've never seen anything previously more accurate than that. Brian 8227 8) Title: Re: Getting the date of manufacture for my Fulvia? Post by: roddy on 07 October, 2012, 11:13:25 PM I have noted that Viva Lancia! November 1998 No.366 page 4 gave a note of Fulvia chassis numbers of cars built prior to 1.1.1973 - the 'cut-off' date for classification as a "Historic Vehicle" by DVLA.
Just to repeat the information :- Fulvia Berlina 2nd series 818.612/613.042687 Fulvia coupé 2nd series 818.630/631.041681 Fulvia 1600HF 818.740/741.004519 Hope of some help? Regards - Roddy Title: Re: Getting the date of manufacture for my Fulvia? Post by: Neil on 08 October, 2012, 08:42:24 AM Roddy, well remembered, I have scanned that page and attached as it includes 2000 models too, now I know my Fulvia 2S *050448 is not covered in the exempt section, unless the date is moved on as it has been static for so long, but that is another story/quest!
Title: Re: Getting the date of manufacture for my Fulvia? Post by: fay66 on 08 October, 2012, 09:21:19 AM Roddy/Neil.
Thank you for that, I must have missed it at the time or forgotten since! Now downloaded. Brian 8227 8) Title: Re: Getting the date of manufacture for my Fulvia? Post by: sparehead3 on 08 October, 2012, 10:53:35 AM I'll get that put into the Library , as it'll be nice have have it available in the future (Neil, if you could email the PDF to Chris H that'd be good).
Title: Re: Getting the date of manufacture for my Fulvia? Post by: stanley sweet on 10 October, 2012, 04:20:58 PM This has made me have a check on LHD second series. The number is 015555, so I assume that means the 15,555th built? Mine is a 'one and a half' with the cast rear spring mounts. Any idea how many were built before they switched to the fabricated mounts?
Title: Re: Getting the date of manufacture for my Fulvia? Post by: fay66 on 10 October, 2012, 11:11:23 PM This has made me have a check on LHD second series. The number is 015555, so I assume that means the 15,555th built? Mine is a 'one and a half' with the cast rear spring mounts. Any idea how many were built before they switched to the fabricated mounts? On the 6th October in this thread I asked Simon Lake the source of his information which is the most accurate I've ever seen. Simon has very kindly sent me 5 pages of models and dates of manufacture from Chassis Number to Chassis Number. These are a revelation, and Simon has given permission for me to post them for everyones use. Tim Speechley at Fiat UK has never seen these before, or anything like them, and according to Tim Turin doesn't have anything like this either, Simon has also given permission for Tim to send to Lancia in Turin for their records. See attached. Brian 8227 8) Title: Re: Getting the date of manufacture for my Fulvia? Post by: fensaddler on 11 October, 2012, 03:00:18 AM Year of manufacture is pretty certain for my car (UK first reg 1st Aug 88) so I can assume that was also the calendar year it was made. In Aus, cars 25 years or more old are eligible to go on 'club plates' and pay much reduced road tax in exchange for limited use of up to 90 days per year. Hence finding out the actual date of manufacture might bring forward this glad day by a few months in 2013. Any chance that I would be able to find this out for my Delta? I guess if Brian's spreadsheets are themselves better than anything Turin keeps, I've got no chance. Were things better by 1988? Is it worth asking Barbara?
Title: Any records for earlier years ? Post by: simonandjuliet on 11 October, 2012, 06:20:45 AM Very interesting !
Does anyone have/know of similar data for earlier years - specifically for Aprilias ??? Title: Re: Getting the date of manufacture for my Fulvia? Post by: chriswgawne on 11 October, 2012, 06:23:39 AM What wonderful information. I have never seen anything like this before. Many many thanks. Chris
Title: Re: Getting the date of manufacture for my Fulvia? Post by: ncundy on 11 October, 2012, 12:12:53 PM Brian and Simon,
That's great information. Fits nicely in with my car which was first registered on 31 January 1970 in Rome. Title: Re: Getting the date of manufacture for my Fulvia? Post by: Sliding Pillar on 11 October, 2012, 03:09:26 PM I have posted the details of Aprilia production dates under the Aprilia thread:-
http://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5449.0 Title: Re: Getting the date of manufacture for my Fulvia? Post by: stanley sweet on 11 October, 2012, 03:50:06 PM Good stuff. All ties in nicely so at least I don't own some weird fake! Still surprised by the cast rear suspension brackets though. I was led to believe this was a leftover from the Series 1 and a number of Series 2's had them until they ran out. I imagined a few hundred, not 15,000 and who knows how many after that? Now we need to find the highest chassis number with castings to find out when they did run out!
Title: Re: Getting the date of manufacture for my Fulvia? Post by: Neil on 11 October, 2012, 08:23:01 PM Brian, very useful, where did Simon get those pages? I have never seen anything like that, I had asked Tim to help me a few years ago and he couldn't obtain any details from Turin.
Title: Re: Getting the date of manufacture for my Fulvia? Post by: peteracs on 11 October, 2012, 09:38:00 PM Hi All
Looking through the later year ones, it has three lines of Beta production, is there any more information available for the Betas? Thanks Peter Title: Re: Getting the date of manufacture for my Fulvia? Post by: fay66 on 11 October, 2012, 11:39:09 PM Neil,
I did ask Simon where they came from but he's had them so long he's forgotten ::) Peter. Sorry as I understand it this is the sum total of what Simon has. Title: Re: Getting the date of manufacture for my Fulvia? Post by: fay66 on 11 October, 2012, 11:43:30 PM Good stuff. All ties in nicely so at least I don't own some weird fake! Still surprised by the cast rear suspension brackets though. I was led to believe this was a leftover from the Series 1 and a number of Series 2's had them until they ran out. I imagined a few hundred, not 15,000 and who knows how many after that? Now we need to find the highest chassis number with castings to find out when they did run out! Having spent many years involved with engineering changes to vehicles at Vauxhalls, I think it's very unlikely we'll ever find anything regarding the changeover point, the only possibility is if those who know they have the cast rear suspension brackets fitted to their series 2's, post their chassis number details, and compare them that way.Brian 8227 8) Title: Re: Getting the date of manufacture for my Fulvia? Post by: ncundy on 11 October, 2012, 11:56:57 PM The TAVs say (TAV 56A) that the change was made from chassis 21499 (coupes).
Neil Title: Re: Getting the date of manufacture for my Fulvia? Post by: fay66 on 12 October, 2012, 12:45:57 AM The TAVs say (TAV 56A) that the change was made from chassis 21499 (coupes). Neil Thanks Neil, I'd forgotten that the TAV's showed that information. so it looks like there were nearly another 6,000 fitted with them after Stanley's Fulvia. Brian 8227 8) Title: Re: Getting the date of manufacture for my Fulvia? Post by: peteracs on 12 October, 2012, 08:23:23 AM Neil, I did ask Simon where they came from but he's had them so long he's forgotten ::) Peter. Sorry as I understand it this is the sum total of what Simon has. Brian, Thanks for the update, shame it would have made interesting reading as for the Fulvia folk. Peter Title: Re: Getting the date of manufacture for my Fulvia? Post by: stanley sweet on 16 October, 2012, 05:53:48 PM Just catching up on this. Thanks for the information - now I know after 20 years! They almost made it to a nice round number of 21500, then looked in the box....................d'oh!
Title: Re: Getting the date of manufacture for my Fulvia? Post by: Zetaman on 15 December, 2014, 10:34:54 PM This Lancia production information was gathered together in the last couple of years and put on the viva-Lancia.com website:
http://www.viva-lancia.com/specials/cd/vin.php (http://www.viva-lancia.com/specials/cd/vin.php) Paul Mayo Title: Re: Getting the date of manufacture for my Fulvia? Post by: fay66 on 16 December, 2014, 12:36:00 AM Paul
I passed the 5 pages listed above to Viva-Lancia a couple of years ago, I also copied it to Tim Speechley at Fiat UK who in turn passed it on to Fiat/Lancia as they didn't have this information either. do you know the origin of the other pages? I note that you were the author of some of them? Brian 8227 8) Title: Re: Getting the date of manufacture for my Fulvia? Post by: Zetaman on 18 December, 2014, 12:08:36 AM Paul I passed the 5 pages listed above to Viva-Lancia a couple of years ago, I also copied it to Tim Speechley at Fiat UK who in turn passed it on to Fiat/Lancia as they didn't have this information either. do you know the origin of the other pages? I note that you were the author of some of them? Brian 8227 8) All the data is from Lancia originally: D.COM/AST was the Department containing the Technical Assistance Service [see page 33 of Geoff Goldberg's new book]. The route of the pages to those that had them is probably uncertain. Some of the pages may have been obtained from the Biscaretti Museum archives. The page I wrote up has its sources noted on the page, but again the data will probably have come from various individuals visiting Turin. There is a very interesting list of chassis numbers for the early cars, which I can contribute, again I think from the Biscaretti, but it does not belong on this thread. Paul Title: Re: Getting the date of manufacture for my Fulvia? Post by: fay66 on 18 December, 2014, 12:21:01 AM Paul I passed the 5 pages listed above to Viva-Lancia a couple of years ago, I also copied it to Tim Speechley at Fiat UK who in turn passed it on to Fiat/Lancia as they didn't have this information either. do you know the origin of the other pages? I note that you were the author of some of them? Brian 8227 8) All the data is from Lancia originally: D.COM/AST was the Department containing the Technical Assistance Service [see page 33 of Geoff Goldberg's new book]. The route of the pages to those that had them is probably uncertain. Some of the pages may have been obtained from the Biscaretti Museum archives. The page I wrote up has its sources noted on the page, but again the data will probably have come from various individuals visiting Turin. There is a very interesting list of chassis numbers for the early cars, which I can contribute, again I think from the Biscaretti, but it does not belong on this thread. Paul Does make me wonder though if this information was held in the Biscaretti why Lancia over the years has said that it was unavailable when queried for manufacture dates? Brian 8337 8) Title: Re: Getting the date of manufacture for my Fulvia? Post by: GG on 04 May, 2015, 09:04:27 AM Paul I passed the 5 pages listed above to Viva-Lancia a couple of years ago, I also copied it to Tim Speechley at Fiat UK who in turn passed it on to Fiat/Lancia as they didn't have this information either. do you know the origin of the other pages? I note that you were the author of some of them? Brian 8227 8) All the data is from Lancia originally: D.COM/AST was the Department containing the Technical Assistance Service [see page 33 of Geoff Goldberg's new book]. The route of the pages to those that had them is probably uncertain. Some of the pages may have been obtained from the Biscaretti Museum archives. The page I wrote up has its sources noted on the page, but again the data will probably have come from various individuals visiting Turin. There is a very interesting list of chassis numbers for the early cars, which I can contribute, again I think from the Biscaretti, but it does not belong on this thread. Paul Does make me wonder though if this information was held in the Biscaretti why Lancia over the years has said that it was unavailable when queried for manufacture dates? Brian 8337 8) Lancia records are kept in the Centro Storico Fiat, about 2-3 miles away, in a separate museum/storage area, along with Fiat records. The archive is huge - I think they mentioned something like 18 km of files, and they have a heck of a time trying to figure out/organize what they have. Their interest is largely Fiat history, and they have a large display area open to the public - its quite fascinating. The Lancia files were well organized in the early 1990s, fell into a state of neglect in the mid-90s (the dark years) before. They are at least now stabilized, although there is only limited work going on. But sadly, there is no active "central" clearing house for Lancia information, as there was many years ago. Information has to be assembled from bits found here and there. A few years ago a similar document to the wonderful production sheets shown above was found as the Biscaretti for the Aurelia years - it looked like the mother lode, until it became clear that it wasn't complete. As it looked official, it was certainly confusing enough. Has anyone checked the sheets above? On a casual look, Betas seem a bit under-represented, although the Fulvia/Flavia info looks good. Still making Flaminia sedans in 1970! |