Lancia Motor Club

I've had my S2 coupe now for 20 years. I love the look as much as the day I bought it and love the whole history of Lancia, the Fulvia, and the engineering quality. Over that time, I've flicked through mags and looked on dealer sites with an imaginary budget and sometimes get tempted, but in the end there is always something about another car I can't live with. There are just a handful of cars I would consider: Alfa 1750 Spyder, Alfa step front 1300 GT, Fiat 124 Spyder, Alpine 110, Citroen DS.  Even so, The Alfa isn't as perfect from all angles unless you have a Boat Tail, the Alpine looks fantastic but I can't imagine long journeys in it plus no luggage space and the thought of servicing costs on a DS is a bit scary so once again the Fulvia is the perfect car for me- looks great, sounds great, comfortable, you can see out of it, has a big boot. The 124 Spyder also looks good from all angles and has a good boot so is a good contender, but would I risk changing my 1300 Fulvia for a 1300 Alfa? At the moment I can't imagine ever selling it. I'd be interested to hear if other Fulvia owners feel the same and if anyone has found an equally perfect car? No mad suggestions like a 250SWB, keep it around 10K.

Stan we can discuss over a few proseccos but in the company of Fulvisti there will only be one answer!!!

Just add to compliment rather than replace.....

Tim

I had a 124 Coupe and I was always replacing ball joints and brakes - and doing so was no pleasure.  It went well right through the rev range and sounded lovely, great gearbox, I liked the dash.  Handling ok (it was a third series).  I'd take a Fulvia over another - unless you REALLY wanted a convertible...even so I'd go an MX5 as well rather than a 124 instead.

David

Have to say Im enjoying my 1960 Jaguar MK2, a reminder of what value these represent. Even the 2.4 litre makes great sense as an investment, and they are not slow. Of course, it must be BRG, with wire wheels, Coombs spats, adjustable shockers, overdrive and have the Moss manual gearbox with overdrive. Take away the leather, chrome and wood and that only leaves 10% metal. So British.

I can't remember the make, nor the model but I would like to find out. My (sports) choice if it is still in the 10K range is the car fielded by 'Car and Car Conversions' magazine in 1974, to contest the small capacity class of, amongst others, the Nurburgring 500 or 1000km sportscar event (GTM, Marcos?). It was featured in their mag, which I tracked down at the September Autojumble a few years ago, but in error didn't buy it thinking it was not the relevant issue. That jumble can be dizzying-but will be there next week on Saturday if poss. Then return via the Guildford events. If not a sportscar, then an Alfa 1900 saloon in poor condition.

TR4 is a cracking all rounder and for a british car drives really nice and goes pretty well, hard to find for £10k but they do appear from time to time, 4a is ok when decent drive shafts are fitted , I presume 5's and 6's would be similar but faster, anything before a 4 is pretty much junk to drive  ::)

I must say. like Richard, I have a penchant for small capacity cars. So many beautiful little cars used to compete for the Thermal Index at Le Mans. Tiny engines with slippery bodywork hitting 120mpgh on the straight. To me, that is more of an achievement than putting 7 litres into a GT40. Whenever I go to historic races I'm drawn to the gorgeous little Abarths or Panhards. If I had a monstrous budget, there would be an 1000cc Abarth Periscopo in my garage. I should point out I was asking this out of interest and I'm not deserting the Lancia ranks....

David, I know whay you're saying about the 124 v MX5 and it makes sense, but with Italian cars I think the heart always wins. That's why you now have a Flavia Zagato!

The point is more "an MX5 as well" rather than "a 124 instead" - if the issue was a rag top...

A Beta coupe is an obvious change. A Beta Coupe can be all sorts of cars depending on spec, tune, mods.  You might get lucky and find a good one to your taste within an "as well" budget.

If you like small capacity an Appia is a wonderful thing.  Having sold the B20 it was those more than the obvious Fulvias and Flavias I was drawn to.  If you're hands on I'd trust that a project would be rewarding.

Fond of FIAT 127s?   A ~really~ rare sight here.  Anyone able to say if many are left in Italy?

If you fancied an Italian shopping trip top of my list would be a Fulvia Berlina - again others are better placed to "compare and contrast" and only you can say if the back seat and increased refinement makes a switch from what you have worthwhile.

...or this...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261261628029?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

David

Plenty still in Italy.  This makes a nice "before" and "after" he got hold of grandma's car:

http://www.subito.it/auto/fiat-127-anni-70-palermo-72267399.htm
http://www.subito.it/auto/fiat-127-anni-70-treviso-72234276.htm

David

That Flavia is a great looking car, especially the side view.

Its the one that was at Brooklands for a grand, went through Godin Banks to I believe Julius Thurgood.  Classic Cars of Kent who've done the work I know and like.  I spoke with one of them about it at Brands when Jason had the Aurelia out.  The ebay description and photos ring true.  

If I hadn't shot my bolt...

Who can help for the compare/contrast to a Fulvia Berlina?  

David

And if I hadn't still got the Fulvia Berlina!!  ;D 

Just down the road from me too. Should I go and have a look?  :o

Robin.

Having a look would be a good excuse to find them.  What was it on the Fulvia I thought they may be able to help with?  If you ask for Graham he'd remember me and the Aurelia (and MG Midget).  If that improves matters or not I wouldn't like to say :)   

David

David,

We had thought to visit them when you told us that they have a rolling road to help tune the Fanalone.

Might take it along for a visit.

Robin.

Back from the Fulvia Knights Rally to Mondovi and Turin. I've answered my own question - I wouldn't replace my Fulvia with any of the cars I mentioned. I could fit a load of luggage in, travelled fast and comfortably and I think every pass we climbed we found ourselves held up by a modern car. It handled breathtaking hairpins and autostradas with ease - proving once again to be a great all rounder. I've just remembered a group of us getting frustrated by a dawdling Mercedes SL. At the first chance we changed down and went by in a group - I would think he might still be slightly deaf in his left ear.

Ah, good olde Fiat 127 - I liked the earlier 1970s Sport in Arancio Racing. Bought my first straight out of college for £30 - but it needed a huge amount of body work.  The SOC 1049cc engine was incedible with power up at 7000 rpm - managed 85 bhp on RR with DTMR 34 carb back when I wanted to go Fiat Challenge racing!

The rear suspension was fully adjustable for Camber and Toe in/out. Would lift a rear wheel on roundabouts.

Sadly they suffered in UK climate (and winter salt) with rear wheel wells and shock mounts very prone to structural corrosion.

 i also had an orange 127 sport as my first student car.Went really well.I had a few years of tremendous fun in it and it always felt faster than it really was but i needed to replace the sills. It had black bucket seats with orange pinstriping, I wish i had kept it.

When I were a lad I shared a 20/25 Rolls with a friend.  That would lift a rear wheel going round a roundabout on the outside of a Mini but did so in a state of total decorum.

That's a lovely looking little Abarth. Ah.................the old 'I wish I'd kept it' regret. Everyone's got one.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-127-Sport-/400569883985?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item5d43d35d51

if anyone cares to rekindle old memories! But beware, nostalgia isn't what it used to be!

Guy

The same guy is selling a nice pre facelift Beta Coupe for a similar price. I'd go for the Lancia, but I'm biased!

I'd want the Beta of the pair, but would deny that "adults can sit in the back with ease".  That's not going to be the case with a 127 either...

Of course there's always the HPE, or the saloon, or a Trevi or Prisma, a Delta, Dedra.

We never got the full spec for the "change from a Fulvia" (or addition to a Fulvia).  Would a back seat add anything?  Would that let you take a rev happy and responsive classic on trips where the Fulvia has had to stay home for lack of space?

David

David, there's no spec that I had in mind. As you can see my favourites range from an Alpine 110 to a Citroen DS. All based purely on aesthetics and nice engineering. Just cars that always make me look twice and in a dream world would be in my garage. One thing I couldn't live with is a nice looking car without technical merit. I did have a Traction Avant for a few years. It was 1952, but way ahead of most things of the time. I could chuck it around roundabouts like a modern car. I remember the speed on a roundabout caught out the driver of a Lotus Elise who thought he had time to go across me. I remember his slightly concerned face looking out the side window. From where I was sitting it was almost like looking out of the bridge of the Titanic as I hard a-starboarded around the back of him. The thing is, for me, nothing matches up to everything I like about the Fulvia, which is why I still have it after all this time. I was just interested to see if anyone came up with a car I'd forgotten about so I could think 'Hmmm, not a bad option'. I did see a group of Fiat 124 Spiders parked up in a cafe on the French side of the Col de Tende. A couple of us had stopped there too and had a look. There's no doubt, they are beautiful, practical cars with very plush interiors. I think they were all the later Pininfarina Spiders. I could live with one of those very easily but it struck me how big they were. Nothing wrong with that but no way would they fit in my Fulvia-sized garage.

With a lottery win would you consider an Appia Zagato an upgrade?

David

Definately not. Too small and hot regardless of its dainty shape...

One car which has not been mentioned up to now I think:

Porsche 356

- Superb quality of engineering
- Sports car
- Goes around roundabouts like nothing else
- A big grin on your face everytime you use it
- Small engine + low weight = good performance
- reliable
- no water pump, radiator = no overheating
- can take children in the back
- arouses sympathy

On the negative side, they are today almost the price of a Fanalone, and beware of restoration costs!

(I have now met at least 2 people that own, in no particular order: 1 Lambda, 1 B20 and 1 356, this says something)

I can see this post going down the road of 'what 2 or 3 cars would you like in your garage?' similar to what Motor Sport magazine had as a running feature in the 60's and 70's.
My choice for what its worth (and funnily enough I know 2 other people who have the same combination) is in no particular order: manual air cooled Porsche 911 Coupe, B20 and Toyota Landcruiser.

Chris - not an early B20 for day to day, a late B20 for trips, and a mid series B20 to race?

My answer changes day to day but often includes a Maserati voiturette.  Built as a customer car so a work of art, not too tricky to look after, and to ensure repeat business a whole lot less likely to kill you than a full on GP car.  If Santa is reading this any 6CM or 4CL, not the 4CLT, if its a 4CM the nose like the one in the video.

http://www.streetfire.net/video/victory-by-design-maserati-4cm_2220378.htm

This one:

http://www.wheelsofitaly.com/wiki/images/4/4a/1934_Maserati_4_CM_1500_1.jpg

Not this one:

http://www.motorstown.com/images/maserati-4cm-01.jpg

David

I quite the 356 too, a couple of pics

Other suggestions:
- Fiat Coupe
- Fiat Barchetta
- Lancia Delta Integrale

I like the idea of these two but have no direct or even hearsay experience:

http://worldcarslist.com/images/panhard/panhard-24-ct/panhard-24-ct-02.jpg

http://peacetek.net/saab-96/1960s/1960-saab-96-gt-750.jpg

I've very little knowledge either to say which "is the one to have" of those ranges.

David

Love the Panhard clapping windscreen wipers. Any other cars have this mad design. Even so not in my dream garage.

I would not be able to have 3 dream cars as it would be impossible to select without changing them later on for a better dream.

However for starters

Fly Yellow Dino 246 (Ferrari)
Flaminia Touring convertible (light metalic blue)
Citroen SM (Silver)

What I have which I would not swap as it is a real world choice

Fulvia HF1600
Fulvia Sport 1600
Flavia Vignale

I remember my mum having a Panhard the same as that but RHD in the 70s, she always said it left most things behind at the lights, and she could get a bale of hay for the horse in the boot :o

Fiat Barchetta - that's a good suggestion and another I seriously considered once. Lovely looking little car. Lottery win fantasy? Have to include a Lancia Flaminia Supersport Zagato and the late 60's Maserati Ghibli. Oh, not forgetting the Bizzarini 3500 or the 246 Dino. Back into almost the real world, yes, I like the idea of a 356 (type A) very much. It's a back to front Fulvia. Hmmmm, dark grey I think with red leather................

The 356 is a very pretty car.....

http://cprclassic.com/images/carsforsale/356/Silver59Coupe/images.html

I would have an F40, B20GT and a Fiat Dino Spider to tick as many boxes as possible with 3 cars (and without going into the million pound car pool).

But don't you think the 356 body is more grown up than the wheels it is sitting on???

Now, let us be sensible.  A Lancia can only be changed for another Lancia.  I would happily swap my Fulvia Sport for a B20 (regret ever selling it) or another Aprilia.  Sliding pillar suspension gives such precise, light steering and a wonderful lock.

Looks good on these (are they the same wheels without the hubcaps?)

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:1957_Porsche_356_Carrera_4_Cam_-_fvl.jpg

Gorgeous little car. Tim, the 356 for me is one of the few cars that I think look good with the wheels tucked away under the bodywork. The other example I can think of is the early series E-type (and D of course). Now there's a new challenge by David wheeler - only being allowed to swap for another Lancia. Blimey............makes you realise how many great cars they've produced. For the time being I'll go with my Flaminia Supersport Zagato. Hmmmmmm, possibly in Aston racing green on a nice set of Borranis......

To tighten the challenge howabout you can only swap your Lancia for another Lancia loosely in the same price bracket???!!! If I sold all my Lancias I could not still afford a Flam SS Z which I agree would have to be up there with the most beautiful of cars.

However, would it provide the automotive pleasure in line with its aesthetics???

Yes - that was an insane flight of fancy. In that case, maybe a series 1 all alloy Fulvia Zagato.

Flaminia Touring Coupe for me in gunmetal grey with red interior.

Showing my usual leaning towards Berlinas, it would have to be an Aurelia or a Flaminia Berlina.

Brian
8227 8)

Stanley’s post earlier today reminds me why I haven’t yet contributed to this thread! Here are two photos taken last week of my Series 1 all alloy Fulvia Zagato. I wouldn't change it.

Colin

I swapped a 1st series Fulvia Zagato for a 3rd Series B2O, which I swapped for a FIAT Dino Spyder, which I swapped for a a life in the S Of France

Which one's best ?

All are fabulous and worth trying !

Ahhh … if I had thought that an exchange option included a life in the South of France, I could have gone for that. And as part of the package I would have settled for an early three-speed box Renault 4 too.

Colin

Simon - but kept the Moto Guzzi Le Mans?

Yes , the move to France wasn't entirely devoid of toys - the LE Mans is still in the garage awaiting a fettle
 
However , I would be happy to go full circle and swap that for a nice Fulvia .......

Colin - yes. I'd definitely hang on to that one if I were you. I see the Fiat Dino Spider has been mentioned a couple of times. Another beautiful car (well, of course, it's Italian.....) but it made me realise that in 35 years of driving I've only ever seen one being driven on the road. If it had been badged as a Ferrari the values would have increased considerably. Very underrated, as was the pretty Fiat Dino coupe (Mafia transport in the Italian Job).

Brian - do Aurelias or Flaminias growl like FAY?

Brian - do Aurelias or Flaminias growl like FAY?

Stan, - I don't think so!

Brian
8227 8)