Lancia Motor Club

This topic is a place for members to put their thoughts , comments, reviews and anything they want to about the new book that is being received from 4th March 2014 ....

Please remember that this is a public thread and that text here will be shared with the world - including non-members and LMC members that are not on the Forum but would like to see our views ...

Update 14-03-2014 - we have deliveries in the UK! Please keep to the subject of this thread - your THOUGHTS and REVIEWS - if you haven't received a copy then please use the other thread here http://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6948.0 or contact the Club Treasurer

THE BOOK

I expect some of you are wondering where your copy is as you may have heard that some members have received theirs.

The books are printed, bound, boxed and addressed. Those for overseas and bulk orders which are being delivered by courier have been dispatched. Those single copies for UK delivery for which the most economic deliver method is via Royal Mail under the club's bulk mail contract are suffering a delay as the paperwork that covers the mailing of the monthy magazine apparently does not cover books! When this glitch has been ironed out they will be on their way to you.

Will let you know when this ASAP.

Brian Mills

Thank you for the up-date Brian.......most of us will sleep more soundly tonight......


P


PS ....and dreaming that if we all lived in Switzerland we'd have read, digested and reviewed it by now.....;)

P,
I shall take the bait:

I shall not review it yet  ;)
I have not digested it either...

However, I shall just say, as before, that I am still completely immersed in it. When you take it up, you stay with it for hours, and you always learn something new, or discover new people. And the people are what makes this book special!

So have a nice whisky tonight, in whatever size you prefer, and suffer the next few days: it is really worth the wait...

Sebastien, your LMC member in Switzerland

 ;D

 ;D

 :P

Sebastien........what can I say........your self restraint under extreme provocation has not passed un noticed.........

Indeed I shall ask the committee to institute a new award......exclusive to Swiss residents..........and concurrent members of the LMC forum

;)

The "Poked with a sharp stick" award.......

I suspect you will be the only and indeed willing recipient of the same....:)

Congratulations........and thanks for not spilling the HEINZ......................aka....beans!


P

I wonder, what does 'bulk' order mean?

Peter,

Nothing sinister, multiple purchases would have been a better description. It refers to those that bought more than one copy- those additional copies being at £40 per copy.
Sorry to cause confusion (consternation?)

Enjoy Lancia
Brian Mills

I ordered one, still no show  ???

I ordered two copies and nothing arrived yet.
Chris

Arrived!!

Jack's note "How to use this book" on the inside of the flap is "very Jack", a delight, and a great encouragement to sit down and really read the thing.

On first flick through, once past the excitement of what was once my Aurelia on the back cover, the delight was a soft toy red elephant that I'd never seen before.  For the layout I like the way the "asides" slip in. The other impression is that there's a lot of words, what it is NOT is a photo album and some lazy filler - there's obviously a rollicking yarn in there.

David

Arrived today and 'twas all I could do to stop myself reading it from cover to cover!  ::)

First impressions make it difficult not to wax lyrical using lots of well worn (and overworked) superlatives. However, on the face of it it does appear to be very, very good and a fitting testament to the huge commitment of Jack and the team who put it together. Not forgetting Ted Bates of course. Grateful thanks to you all.

I certainly didn't expect to figure in anyway but there I am on page 199 in the back row of onlookers at the Covent Garden 2007 celebration. And best of all, on the back cover with Modestine at the NEC 2007 show. Totally made up! :)

Robin.

Arrived today, not sure the index is up to much as I looked up Y10 and was mis-directed, but otherwise looks a worthy read

Now just need to find some time

Am a bit surprised no-one has ventured a detailed review or are people savouring the moment before posting in this thread?

For myself as a newcomer to things Lancia, the book is a complete revelation. I didn't open the properly packaged medium sized parcel that arrived via my front window, where I sit at my computer immediately, I decided to wait for a few days until a window of opportunity appeared, this I thought is a special book worthy of my complete attention and maybe even reverence.

Its a bigger tome than I expected, both in page size and page total, the outer glossy, photo heavy cover itself tells it own story. A collage of the cars that fascinate us, of the people fascinated by all things Lancia and moments, and events that stick in our minds eye for an eternity.

Am not sure if I'm a bit odd, but I like the scene to be set, the main characters introduced, a raison d'etre as to the origins of the book, its contributors and those as members who might read it. I noted the quality of the paper, the paper weight and finish, a great deal of consideration went into these three simple but vital aspects of any book worth its printing. And I like to catch the faint aroma of newly printed, first read paper in my nostrils.

I opened the book gingerly, noting again how its not been too stiffly bound to allow easy of opening relatively flattish and indeed to nestle in your lap more readily. Inner flap instruction panel dually read by our esteemed editor Jack Romano, I immediately turned to the index remarking on its two page brevity and conciseness. The index didn't appear too technically biased so I realised indeed that the book was as much about people as it was about Lancia, the two completely interwoven with each other.

Being more a person type, than truly mechanically able, or in any way knowledgable about things technical, I opted to start at Chapter 17: Some great characters from Lancia's past.

This I felt was more appropriate than starting out reading about the history, the machinations of big business and doubtless the politics that surrounded a foreign luxury car maker over a 100 odd years period selling cars in the GB/UK market. After completely absorbing this chapter, I'm very glad I did. Such was the array of truly wonderful people and the recollections of current, former and late members, I felt indeed quite humbled but bizarrely, also elated that I'd been allowed to become a member of a truly unique car club. The stories and anecdotes shared give a real insight to those who owned, drove and restored their beloved Lancias. Also the members of the club who gave years/decades of service to a club and marque they felt so very passionate about was truly inspiring.

If the rest of the book is half as interesting and inspiring as chapter 17 then I am in for a treat as I work my way through its remaining chapters.....even at this stage I'd like to thank all those involved in any shape or form, especially the late Ted Bates for his legacy and Jack Romano as editor and of course the committee whose steady hands brought this project to its wholesome fruition.



P

Mine came Friday, only had time to glance through it but it looks splendid.    Jack has obviously produced a masterpiece even if it has cost him a heart attack!    I've had the operation (but not the heart attack) and am back to normal so all looks bright for him.  Courage mon brave! (or whatever that is in Italian).

I see a copy has made it onto ebay......


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lancia-in-Britain-NEW-CLUB-BOOK-Aurelia-Appia-Beta-Integrale-Aprilia-Lambda-037-/281287016120?pt=UK_CarParts_Vehicles_Manuals_Litterature_ET&hash=item417e033eb8


P

That's a bit galling for those of us have yet to receive our copies.....

Very frustrating when others are still waiting for their copy, but there's always someone out to make a quick bob or two.
Brian
8227 8)

mine arrived last week, looks great just need time to read it now!!! I have to say I was so pleased that my dad made a mention in it and I'm proud that he did. good work on making the book and to all those involved in making it happen well done great job  :)

Maybe it's a copy that's gone astray in the post??? I can't believe it's been read already! I've skimmed through mine and know I'm going to enjoy it to the full.

I suspect that there might have to be an addendum or a sequel and the way James is going saving cars that most of us wouldn't consider viable he'll have a chapter to himself.....

Augusta, Aprilia, Fulvia and Lambda with a special B20 to come? Is there any model he won't touch?

Guy

What 'we' all tend to forget is that only 20% of members take any active part in the club (events, forum, articles for VL etc.) to the silent majority membership is pretty much just a subscription to VL and perhaps a vacarious feeling of belonging.

So frustrating (haven't got mine) but not entirely surprising.

...should have had a binding clause when originally paid for, may not be resold for a 10 yr period after initial purchase and each book numbered and attached to each buyer......or is that too George Wellian??!!


;)


P

[/quote]
What 'we' all tend to forget is that only 20% of members take any active part in the club (events, forum, articles for VL etc.) to the silent majority membership is pretty much just a subscription to VL and perhaps a vacarious feeling of belonging.


[/quote]

Pros and cons there ...if we didn't have the other 80% subscribing to the LMC, then for the active ( in whatever capacity) remainder the subs would be a couple of hundred quid a year or it would become a be non-viable entity!

The 20% I believe ( someone correct me) is quite a high percentage of active members compared to lots of clubs. The much more important aspect is the clubs long life and quality of its membership.

Ideally, each joining member should be automatically enrolled onto the forum to start with and as I keep harping on, equally highlighted in all club publications, not just a single reference in VL.


P

From what I understood about the subsidising of the print run and hence the purchase price we paid both of the first, and to those who elected to buy it, the second copy, I do find this distasteful so soon after being received. I realise that controlling sales of them is not possible and multiple purchase helps the print run, but even so....

Peter

The seller's profile states "currently reducing my collection of rare Lancia magazines from the 1960's onwards!" which is fair enough. However, re-selling a newly published book which has been subsidised by a very generous donation to the club is less so.

I may have bought a few items off this seller in the past, indeed it appears hes still a member?

P

Hi everyone,

Don't lose sight of the fact that this topic is about YOUR thoughts on the book and while interesting it's appeared on ebay, please start a separate topic if you'd like to discuss that - otherwise we'll be in danger of losing the reviews (and I'll really like to keep them together)

Steve (with admin hat on)

Apols Steve, can you move the posts to a new thread...or maybe delete them, I don't mind


P

No worries P, I shall leave it in but can everyone please keep to the title :)

Anyway :  after having received it last Friday and working my way through it (not front to back but dipping in and out!) here are some thoughts :  

It's lovely, really well put together and would stand alongside La Lancia. It's not that technical (or as technical as you'd think) but does what it says - tells the story of Lancia in Britain and as such is going to be a unique book. There's lots of detail in there - far too much detail for a quick read! - and so I'm working my way through the chapters (I started with Rust - but then that that's what I first remember). There's lots of facts and figures and also lots of quotes from people I know making it something that I can easily relate to. There's also a lot of stuff that I didn't really know about - armoured Lancias and the reasons for the club forming.

Best wishes to all the team who put it together and the contributors ! Job well done!

I've got it! - my copy has just arrived, and it is most definitely worth waiting for. I am immediately  impressed by the research that has been done and delighted to see so many fascinating photographs - not just cars, but so many people and souvenirs of the time that the Lancia name really meant something very special in the UK. Well done to the Committee for putting Ted's legacy to such good effect - and of course enormous thanks to Jack for putting it together. Now I must get on with treading it. And - Lorna is delighted to see her photo with Ted!!

Hi All

I am the seller on ebay and just wanted to put the record straight...

I am a big Lancia fan and have been an LMC member off and on for some years.

I also have a massive collection of Lancia (and other makers) items built up since I was a kid, so 30+ years worth.

I have already sold many items to members on here and to others worldwide.

I am selling the book as I ordered it some while back for myself and my Dad to read.

In February of this year my Dad, who got me into Italian cars and collecting, sadly passed away.

I have read the bits I am interested in and as storage is an issue have decided to sell it.

No offence ever intended..

Thanks
Mark..


 

  

Hello Mark, sorry to hear of your father's passing, but I have just had a message from a non member VL contributor asking if there are any copies available. I will forward his details. Richard

The club has additional copies at the cover price. If we sell some then the club benefits. Contact me if you would require some.

Tim Heath - Press and Publicity Officer

Thank you Tim, and worth every penny. I will pass that information on. I particularly enjoyed chapter 17. Also the photo of Mike Hawthorn, presumably take at the same time as the better known one featuring the dog.

Hi Mark, if I might echo Richards sentiments, sorry to hear of your fathers passing.

Hope theres interest in the book, its great value for someone, and can fully understand why its up for sale.

P

Tim,  I'm delighted to hear the club holds some stock.

Mark,  when you get to the stage of a list of items for sale I for one would appreciate seeing it here.  Perhaps also a small add in Viva saying to email for a copy.

David

Page 167.  Photo of a Jolly.  It says Flavia based while I think its Appia.  The camper van mentioned must be the one that was on ebay recently.

My other thought as I get more into it is a "volume two"...

David

Mark - sorry to hear of you sad loss.

Yes volume two. I was thinking the same. Didn't like to mention it, knowing how much time and hard work has gone into volume one, by volunteer club members. I expect there is some surplus material though.

Hi All

Many thanks for all the kind messages much appreciated.

My dad used to take me round lots of Lancia showrooms when I was a kid so I could collect the brochures (those were the days!)

I will never forget when we saw the Trevi for the first time - we were absolutely amazed by the dash (and seat) design!

Thanks again

Mark..

David
According to 'Camion Lancia' your correct, Jolly was based on Appia, while Superjolly was based on Flavia; by the time Superjolly entered production, Jolly Poduction had ceased.

Brian
8227 8)

Hi Brian/David
- I've opened a separate thread here http://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=7002.0 for members to list any errors, corrections, anomalies or additions. Feel free to contribute ....

Steve - that's good - but I hope that members won't get too obsessive about spotting errors and pointing them out. We are extremely fortunate to have such a wide-ranging and thorough history in such an attractive volume - let's not lose sight of that too quickly!

Hi Adrian : yes, it's not meant to be a 'critical' thread but a 'useful' one something that could be of real value to the club. Given the number of members on here that are reading the book we're bound to find a few things ....

Having read through the chapters on rust and the withdrawing from the UK - there are a lot of 'lessons learned' there ... it's not something I really appreciated at the time but I do remember going to the NEC motorshow in my metro :) with a friend and laughing at the Skoda Estelle that was there where every bit of trim was loose ... they don't make them like that any more ! Skoda jokes - I remember those too. Such a shame that it wasn't done with Lancia ... not a rose tinted chapter ...

Delighted to see references to an all time fellow Irvinestownian rallying legend, Cahal Curley and his association with the Chequered Flag Stratos.


P

I started at the beginning and have just got to the bit about the formation of this Lancia Club. 

What stands out is the quality of the research and the clarity of its presentation.  I think of Jack as excitable and his style as conversational but this is really measured stuff taking great care to tell the story as he's found it. I greatly enjoyed the early history and the context of the Italian economy and car market.  The pre-war history is really well told.  The formation of this club is a story with several sides and all the more fascinating for it.

It really is a good read...

Well done to everyone involved !!

David

I heartily endorse David's comments (I'm up to about the same page as he) - it is a fascinating read and the mind boggles at the amount of research that Jack must have put in to come up with so much detail. I notice that Jack's name does not appear on the frontispiece and I think that it should. The introduction on the inside of the dust jacket signed by Jack seems scant acknowledgement of his immense role in the exercise.

Page 26.  Sir Stewart Gore-Brown.

His name lept off the page as I have just finished reading the biography of his life as told in 'The Africa House' by Christina Lamb.
In it there is no mention of his motoring exploits nor of his racing a Lancia. However, it is a compelling read written largely with the help of copies of his correspondence found in a trunk at the now abandoned house in Africa. The life of a true English Gentleman of that era, eccentric to the core!

Well worth a read and to encourage you to do so two tasters. 1. His obsession with his aunt (the wife of the man who built the Brooklands race track)referred to was born out by his writing a letter to her practically everyday of his life until she died regardless of where he was at the time. 2. He couldn't pluck up the courage to ask the other love of his life to marry him but 20 or so years latter married her daughter! How bizarre is that?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Africa-House-English-Gentleman/dp/0140268340/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1396010784&sr=8-1&keywords=the+africa+house

Robin.

I have just got round to looking through this book and I am very pleasantly surprised at its readability and presentation. Of course I knew I would enjoy it because of its title but it is a very good read.
Huge congratulations to all who were involved in its production.
Whilst going through the book, I came across my few words on Harry which I sent to Jack in the very beginning and which I had almost forgotten about. He has put them in verbatim to my surprise.
And then on page 239 there is an image of the Scuderia Manning transfers which Harry applied to cars he worked on. I have one on my racecar by the ignition switch and I think of Harry  whenever I see it.
Which then reminded me that I also have a pair of Harry's secret weapon for attracting girls! He had some dreadful folding sunglasses printed up as shown in the attached (awful because of reflections) photos. What a character!
Chris

Well, book dually digested and read over twice ( for typos mind you).

It seems the life of things motoring and Italian, never ever run smoothly, ever.

The politics, a variety of organisations, both governments played huge parts in shaping the success or otherwise of all things Lancia oriented.

I thoroughly enjoyed my read, perhaps not as car model heavy as I'd anticipated but no real issues there, at times commercial vehicles were much more important than cars and indeed the endless restructuring of the sales networks seemed a bit of a nightmare at times. The part the media played in destroying Lancia's reputation and then how Lancia handled the problem, seemed inextricably linked in its downfall in little more than a decade. A very sad denouement.


My favourite parts were the people.....my favourite piece of writing was by Howard Moon on P.255.


Lancias are officially extinct in the UK..............how do we now keep the flame alive into the next century?


A few things I'd like to ask the old hands -

Are Barry Crowes annual LMC videos available? Likewise footage of Julian Janes driving in the 1940s, mention of Gerald Batt having some?

Are Roger Perry's Stratos photos at Orta available anywhere?


P

Congratulations on a very entertaining book. The early history I found fascinating and I can only agree with the earlier comments on the thoroughness of the research that Jack has done. I did like the word and pictures of the pre-Lambda cars - and commercials - they were obviously very regarded here.
And Jack has made the book interesting to a wide range of readers by making it very much a people book that involves many members past and present.
I'm very pleased to have my copy!

Ref Howard Moon, I believe I met this gentleman in the mid 1970's at a LMC AGM - possibly at Danny La Rue's hotel, Walton Hall? I seem to remember he was quite a character and I bought a blue American Lancia Club T shirt (which I still have ) from him.
And funnily enough, just last week there was  a copy of his lovely 1971 60 page tome on Lancia Aurelias for sale on ebay.
Chris

Saw the book by him on ebay Chris, just thought it was a tad expensive


P

Alan Cooper has found a picture on Facebook of a Blue & White Beta Coupe pickup, that might possibly be the Norman Stewart one referred to a the bottom of P259 and carried onto P260, does anyone know what colour it was?
Alan is hopefully going to try to get permission for me to post the photo here.

Brian
8227 8)

Norman Stewart's pick-up was based on an HPE, it was blue and cream. He called it the 'HPP'  High Performance Pick-up!

Going through some paperwork at the weekend I found a letter from Ted Bates , I forgot about this as it was a long time ago . I bought a book about Betas off him in 1992 . It was nice to see the picture of him in the book as I never met him but we corresponded back then it's just nice to remember him with the book. :)

theres a few pictures I put up in the LMC legends about norman and our last visit there, j

Looks well finished.

I'd suggest it for Simon Ingman to get his grapes in - but having just been I understand it would need taller springs and a sump guard.  He MAY still need ideas as I'm looking forward to hearing how a trike copes with the middle wheel down the lumpy bumpy grassy middle of the tracks.

David

Hi All

Just finished The Book whilst on holiday, only real time I get to do a lot of reading. Have to say it is most enjoyable and especially given essentially a voluntary effort by the individuals concerned, I would be happy for it to stay the way it is if reprinted. I especially liked the early years and the write ups on individuals, being a newcomer to the club etc, none of them were known to me.

Purely in the interest of improving it however I would suggest the following

1) Mentioned before, but resolve the where brought and bought should be used correctly.
2) Especially in the early years write up, there were a 'repeats' of events which could be removed.

Finally, just to say well done to all involved, a really interesting car book with no mention of any car specifications.....

Peter

I finally have my copy, having rescued it from the tenants who now live at my previous address, who had opened it (by mistake...) but at least not read it...  I'd echo earlier comments about wanting a little more acknowledgement of Jack there for posterity - it was undoubtedly his magnum opus and in retrospect it would have been only fitting that there was something about the author.  Still, at least we all know who did the work.  My other comment is just how big a format it is - I'd not imagined anything so substantial.  Not read it yet (only got it late on Saturday and I've been violently ill since, what they call 'gastro' in Aus), but it will join the queue of books awaiting my attention.  Chuffed to see that I am actually on the cover (albeit that you have to know where to look...).

Fittingly, my copy arrived the day before I set off for the Great Northern Weekend, so I was able to take it with me and start my read in the pleasant surroundings of the Crown Hotel with many fine cars parked below the windows of my room.

The book took me a couple of weeks to read, mainly because I often re-read some of the passages, particularly the excellent portraits of the ‘Great Characters’. What fascinating lives some of them lead, and what a shame I only knew but two of them (Barry Waterhouse & Mike Matthews, via respectively, Barry’s VL articles, one of the great joys of my first stint in the club, and a fleeting talk at an AGM I think). A pity that there wasn't time/room for more. It struck me also how similar some of their lives were to some who were not mentioned; Allyne Body’s massive store of Beta parts probably rivalled Harry Manning’s and John Maltby’s stashes, all of them living in a similar manner, on, or on the edge of obsession.

When I re-joined the Club in 2007 the ‘Book’ project was already rolling, and, particularly as time rolled on, like others no doubt, I began to question whether this was a good use of Ted Bates’ money, especially for a club facing a difficult financial future. However what an achievement this book has been, once again showing just how much the LMC can punch above its weight when we put our mind to it!

Well done Jack, Will, David and others. A fitting monument to Ted, your efforts and the Club. In the end I simply couldn't put it down.

I am pleased to see more posts here in recognition of the enormity of the voluntary work put in by Jack to make the book a reality for all of us. In reading the book as a single narrative it is easy to overlook the scale of the task Jack had in pulling together different aspects of the story. One aspect that I think deserves more recognition is the unravelling of the complicated story about W L Stewart.

It was a pleasure for me to join up with Jack in the early days of research for the book, when in November 2009 I accompanied him on the first visit to the National Archive at Kew. At that time Jack had scant knowledge of Stewart other than he was known to have been important in the early days. The National Archive is seriously deficient and patchy in the documents that have survived, but we were fortunate in finding some early stuff on W L Stewart and his first company. The attached photos taken that day show Jack, with some apprehension, about to tackle the first box of papers and the first sighting of WLS’s signature.

It is a huge tribute to Jack that he pursued many dead ends and false trails to piece together the Stewart story, which could have become a biography in its own right. In 2009 there was no way of knowing how that story would unfold and would lead to Jack eventually meeting WL’s grandchildren. From what I have heard, and from recent posts on the Forum, it is clear that there is more of the enigmatic story of Walter Leonard Stewart still to be compiled. Perhaps Jack can be encouraged to start writing again?

Colin

I have just got round to reading this thread but if in a hundred years time someone were to write another book on the history of Lancia in the UK then Jack's name would be remembered with awe.

We are so lucky to have someone of Jack's ability and passion to minister to our Lancia needs through the medium of the written word.

Hear, hear, or is it Here, here? I never did know!
Regards, John

Where, where? I'm pretty sure it's "hear, hear" as in "I hear you", meaning you agree.

Evening all
Is this book still available anywhere, or have I missed the boat by 6 or 7 years?!!
Cheers

I've seen a few on eBay over the years and at car shows on bookseller stands. Probably the booksellers buying them off eBay?

Just have to keep an eye open and/or put a thread in the parts wanted section?

Guy

I think the club might still have three or four copies that were returned by the previous regalia supplier. Perhaps a committee member can check and confirm?