Lancia Motor Club

Hello everyone.
I'm now the proud owner of a beautiful little Ardea and was hoping for a little advice if possible.

20140718_191207.jpg

My initial idea before I picked it up it was to build a little prewar/mille miglia type special using the engine and all the running gear, something like the Lancia Ardea Barchetta recently for sale, however, although it really is in poor shape, it's simple, elegant charms are rubbing off on me and I'm starting to think about restoring it.  I could possibly manage the main shell, floors, sills etc (dependant on further inspection) but couldn't do the wings and was wondering what the chance of coming across a decent set of wings for an Ardea are and would they fit?
Are there are any particular areas or traps in the bodyshell that I should check for excessive corrosion before I go to the trouble of stripping the shell?

Unfortunately I could not see your picture and I don't know what series your Ardea is. Body panels are available through internet. Likewise for interior trim. There are no special issues about shell structure except to remember that these cars are all more than 60 y old and that they rust like anything else of the same age. Mechanically they are a bit complex but not too difficult. I am very happy with my Ardea that I bought about 4 y ago. Andrea

Robert, you are a lucky man, have fun!!

                                    Andy

No photo showing Robert........click on additional options below dialogue box to left and follow instructions


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Thanks for the replies!  Mine is a very late one with a 5 speed gearbox.

I had a few problems with my first post and hopefully have attached a pic now.  Alas not quite as fine as yours Nistri.

I also somehow failed to send the second half of my post regarding shot blasting.  I'm after some advice from someone (probably Chugga!) that's had some shot blasting done before:
Is normal shot blasting a bit harsh on the shell and is soda blasting any safer?
Have you ever done it yourself and was it difficult to pick up?
When you strip the shell down do you use braces across the suspension points to keep the shell straight?

A few more pics...

Hi Robert....see my B12 restoration thread, it was pretty bad, for me sandblasting was the only option. The aluminium doors etc will be treated with kid gloves though.


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Take a deep breath Robert....


http://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5254.150

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Thanks Frank.  Quite a challenge!  I look forward to seeing how it turns out

Lovely - well done

Looking forward to seeing the rebuild

I was browsing in Geoff Goldberg's blog (http://blog.lanciainfo.com/?p=1851) when I came across this mention of an Ardea. Geoff is one of the topmost Lancia buffs in America and his blog is brilliant. He is GG on here. Thank you Geoff for sharing so freely your huge knowledge and experience.

In it there is a mention of an ardent Ardea group in Italy. If you have not yet found them it may be worth while approaching them. This is the link in case the one above does not work.

 ‎www.lancia-ardea.it/index.htm

Good luck and please do keep us posted, especially with photographs.

                                  Andy

PLEEEEEEEAAASSE RESTORE IT!!!! there are so few of these in the uk and to be fair most of its there, any advice I can give I'm happy to do so , been away for a week hence late reply , as encouragement I've done worse , doing worse at the moment and have plenty more worse to do!
I'm totally against acid stripping as I have seen where cars have been dipped and the acid gets trapped between seems , later on it corrodes and bursts through which is not what anyone wants, once its in there you cant get it out! we always tend to strip the car to a bare shell, paint strip it by hand with chemicals then sandblast the rust, the big problem with blasting is distortion of panels, this is caused by 2 things, 1: a gorilla who doesn't know what hes doing using too much pressure 2: trying to take too much off ie thick paint filler etc which generates heat into the panels , low pressure onto bare steel creates minimal damage and the surface is generally a good key for etch prima and filler, if I get permission from one of my customers I will post some pictures of a car that we have just done this to which imo looks great , j

a few pictures of Tony Stephens Aprilia we are doing, he's kindly said it was ok to put some pictures up to "spur you on"  , paint stripped

blasted, you can see whats blasted and whats just paint stripped

etch prime

repairs

more repairs

Thanks Chugga.  I had been veering towards about 60/40 in favour of a special but you've swung it back to 60/40 in favour of a restoration!
I can start stripping it and get to work on the running gear while I make my mind up anyway.  Thanks for the photos and info - you've answered a few more of my questions regarding stripping the shell.
I deal with sandblasters and powdercoaters for my work and regularly have problems with them ignoring instructions so I'm really tempted to have a go myself.  Only problem is hiring sandblasting equipment seems really tricky, possibly due to health and safety etc, so I'll do a bit of investigating in this area.  A compressor is easy enough to get but is sand blasting equipment that different to paint spraying equipment?
Also, is some sort of anti-rust primer needed after the etch primer and before the paint layers?

I'm also roughly trying to consider how much each project would cost in parts and time. Tricky bits for the special are getting a 1920s Fiat chassis and making the front and rear bodywork, while for the restoration the tricky bits are the shell, the wings and interior fittings.  I have done a good bit of looking over the internet and there is a surprisingly good supply of parts although some prices seem high, in particular the steering wheel, mirror, clock and the rear lenses that I require!  I guess these things could have period replacements and be swapped at a later date anyway. Don't suppose there's anyone in the UK that has a stash of Ardea parts?

With an Ardea restoration you will find a heap of goodwill and assistance out there.  Parts will find you. People will know ways to make other parts fit either to tide you over or permanently.  The challenge is the metal work...

For a special its a lovely idea, but my own view is that the Ardea is now too rare to consider breaking as a donor.  From time to time I've pondered hunting down a set of running gear to make a replica of one of the Ardea specials building a chassis from scratch (as if I need another project, but killing time at a computer!!!)  If you have more than a passing interest the Gilco book is a must as is La Sport.

http://www.gilcodesign.com/
http://www.gilcodesign.com/doc/des/Gilco203_750.htm

http://www.velocetoday.com/lifestyle/lifestyle_12.php

For the "either-or" decision there's the option to pass this project on and start afresh on a special.  Appia running gear is widely available...  You'd get a more powerful engine, more robust axles and better brakes for a fraction of the cost of Ardea bits.  You'd also have spares backup.  For a prewar special Aprilia bits are out there still but getting expensive.

The other option is to build a special based on something else entirely.  Austin 7s are the obvious with masses of knowledge and support out there and a heap of things to do with the car when done from driving tests to sprints and hillclimbs to racing and long distance rallies.  There's a growing LoCost community, a friend inspired by another friend's sprint debut in his Austin 7 is going down that route.  There's a 50s Ford special scene.  Model T and Model A Fords...

David

For what it's worth,and I agree with David,  I would either pass the project on and start a "special" on another base, or better still rebuild the Ardea. They are lovely and extremely rare ! Parts are available in Italy and the Ardea Club is a mine of information

Anyone got a members list to hand to say how many Ardeas in the club?  Anyone know how many on the road?  My guess is something like three cars on the road and eight known.

David

6 berlinas and one Furgoncino.....

plus a camioncino

not in my list????

We may not be on your list either, we have just acquired a second series.
It is running but needs some work, we are just in the process of getting it registered.
I am following this thread avidly and would also urge Robert to rebuild.
My experience with our Augusta which was also very rusty in places is that once you cut back to good metal the work is much less formidable.
Good luck.

the furgoncino could be mine but as you know its not anymore, the camioncino belongs to Ron Francis are there anymore??

Robert having re read your reply to my pictures , to the best of my knowlage there is no big stash of ardea parts in the uk, however things do turn up if you ask, I know I have a spare engine and 2 spare gearboxes and a brand new (still in Lancia wrappings) pair of half shafts and a spare bonnet , Ron has a spare rear axle case and diff and a few other bits n bobs so stuff is out there , the ardea was never officially imported to the uk so parts and cars are rarer over here, this is more of a reason to do it in my mind, I have only ever seen the 2 commercials , 1 car in bits and 1 car on the road in the uk, also bare in mind that anything can be made , all the panels in the photo's I put up are hand made , my dad makes/ modifies instruments for our vehicles eg his "metron clock" in his augusta is actually a ford 6volt electric item which he made a replica face for on the computer which is indistinguishable from an original , I have a full set of ardea instruments for my pickup which I'm sure we could copy the faces for you , in all fairness the forum always seems to come up trumps with stuff and helpful advice, j

Very impressive pictures chugga! - I think Tony is very fortunate to have you to sort out his car! - And Robert - your little Ardea looks to have a lot of potential!

Thanks for all the replies.  It's approaching 80/20 in favour of restoration now!
Thanks for the Gilco link David - really interesting stuff.  In particular the 750 Giusti with the drilled suspension. Too fine for words.  I may do a bit more research in this area of tubular chassis specials.

I've just taken the Lancia to my mum's garage where I should be able to strip it down to bare metal and keep everything together.  I'm afraid my other wreck (Piper GTT) is being done first, so progress may be a little slow on the Lancia, but I will send a few pics as I strip it down.

This may not be news to you, Robert, but a friend in U.K. (I am in Portugal) tells me that Harry Scott has an Ardea.  I have no idea what the state of it is.

The discussion came about as I told Mike Cole of an Ardea out here in Portugal.  Body seems to be a total write off but has instruments, engine, etc.  Been outside for quite a while I should think.  The guy is not someone I would trust too much and probably wants silly money although I doubt there is another Ardea in the country.  Seems to be 4th series and c. 1951/2.  From your postings I doubt anything that you might be need but thought you might want to know. 

Sounds quite interesting Mic.  Any more info on its location or a contact?  I'm still very interested in building an old special with a Lancia engine and running gear so I would definitely consider getting another wrecked Ardea/Aprillia if it was complete and the shell can be scrapped guilt free.  Either that or a collection of engine, gearbox and other parts may be enough.
 

Appia bits are easiest to find.  A much simpler car than an Aprilia as well.  About the only reason to chase Aprilia bits would be if determined to have a prewar car such as to compete with the VSCC, and even then every chance they wouldn't have it.

David

Photos of the Ardea which located is north of Porto.  Which is a long haul from England and obviously would require a trailer.  We are talking almost 2,000 kms from Calais.

At the moment one contact is not talking to the other!  I kid you not.   I am told the car has documents but I have no idea at the moment what the guy thinks he would want.    I doubt if many other Ardeas in Portugal so I cannot see him finding a market for spares.

If you look through the driver's window you can easily see the ground underneath!  Cannot have run for years.  Pity.

Ooooooh, that is tired!!!!

I'm not too fussed about authenticity or attending historic events, it's mainly for the fun of building it and then for bombing around country lanes pretending I'm a racing driver cum constructor.  I'm not a big fan of most old British car parts and would need some more 'elegant' and obscure running gear.
Good point regarding the Appia bits - I'll consider those if I do go down the Lancia special route.  To be honest, you've done such a good job of diverting my attention towards etceterini type specials with FIAT bits that a Lancia special is looking less and less likely

Thanks Mic.  Everything on that car looks worse than mine except for the steering wheel!  That would definitely be a touch too far to go for me. I wonder how many more years that will sit there? 

I have this item in the car which I believe to be a screen demister?  I'm pretty sure I remember finding something on the internet about this with a picture of the wiring on the back but have lost it.  Can anyone remember coming across it and remember where it is?  I've been all over the Lancia Ardea.it site about 3 times now.

Latest on the Ardea in Portugal.  Only hope seems to be if the owner can agree a low price with our fettler who would buy, pull apart and sell what is usable on EBay.  If that happens I will keep you up to date on the Forum as individual components can easily be sent twixt here an U.K.as I now know well.