Lancia Motor Club

Some of you may know that I have been collecting information on Aurelias for a long time - since the 1970s at least.  The key identifier for each car is of course the chassis number.
I have a great deal of data on many cars, and nothing on lots of others.
The register contains any car I hear about, including scrapped cars.

I am hoping this thread may be a way to help add to the data and unravel missing or confusing information.
One particular problem for me is to try to find chassis numbers for cars on which I only have a registration number.  There are numerous cars which had a UK registration number up to the 1970s, but lost it after the change to the DVLC (as was) and now have an age-related registration.

It is very much a work in progress...

Paul Mayo

Does anyone know of this engine B20.3031?
Any information would be helpful.  The engine was lost from its original car many decades ago.

Paul

This 6th Series car appeared at the Lancia Press Day, Brands Hatch, July 1965, registered 821 XMY, which would have been issued from 1959 by Middlesex County Council.
I enclose a photo by Nigel Trow/Roland Grazebrook.

Does anyone recall this car?

My temporary chassis reference for this one is B20-5619
Paul

You may already know about my B20 - Paul Mayo does. Anyway: Chassis B20 2500, engine B20 2780. (Matching numbers)First registrered i Italy. Registered in Denmark in 1962 and used until about 1972. Spent until 1977 in a barn when I bought it. Restoration finished in 1982. Car used and maintained ever since.

Hello Paul - I remember you handed out a list of Aurelia numbers at one of the first Aurelia lunches back in 1999. I suspect you have a huge amount of additional info now - are you thinking of publishing an up-date? It's too useful a record not to see the light of day, especially with the increased interest in Aurelias now.

Adrian and Niels,
Thank you for your responses.  I am working on this register almost continuously.  Will I ever finish it you ask?
The web has of course made far more information more easily available, but it has also slowed down the process of turning my paper files from the 1970s onwards into computer files.

I do want to make the information more available and I am working towards this.  The form of the register has altered over the years and is currently constructed as in the illustrations attached.
I have resisted making a fancy database, partly because I am not up-to-date with the software, and partly because when I did have it as a database, it got far too complicated.

The register is a list of cars, by chassis number, with columns for Registration history, Engines, Other brief details of the car plus an illustration, last known date recorded (only to me of course), and last known location.
This I have designed so that the content could go on the web, without revealing personal information and annoying people. 
Each car has a file, with a hyperlink from the main register.  For many cars I have no information, other than it was on a list of chassis numbers I received in 2006 from the Registro Aurelia Italiano.
For many other cars I have a great deal of information.
I am hoping that the whole thing might go on a CD/DVD disc or a memory stick and be available to those interested.  I might need to restrict it to the Register List and not all the car histories.

I started this Topic to try to help me identify the many cars for which I have no chassis number.  I will press on with this, although I do not expect to find chassis numbers for cars that expired long ago!

As I have said, I have been working on this very actively for the last 2-3 years and I am hoping to reach a stage where the basic list of cars I have could be shared with people in, say, the next 6 months.

Best regards
Paul Mayo

Do I understand correctly that one of the cars has had FOUR different registration numbers??!!

David

This car was sold by Atelier 46 in France in 2011-2012.  Photo from their website.  Would like chassis number etc if possible.

Thanks Paul Mayo

My reference:  B20-5620

Yes David, this is not uncommon.  Of course this is not surprising when the cars move countries or in those countries where the registration belongs to the owner.
In the UK it has been caused by the cherished number trade and by one of the problems I have in tracking UK cars - the loss of registrations in the 1970s of cars that were off the road and later got historic registrations.

The DVLC in Swansea and the changes in local authority boundaries around 1974, I believe, caused much confusion at County level, and unless one was on the ball (I was!), it was quite easy to find that one's old car was no longer registered. 

One of the reasons for this Topic is to try to connect up old records I have with possible extant cars which now have a completely different registration. 
I am hoping 821 XMY, for example, might be one of those!

Paul Mayo

I believe this car was a 6th Series B20 and may still be about.  Chassis number etc and any history very welcome.  No photo of this one.

Paul Mayo

My ref B20-5622

This car was found at:
http://drpianale.wordpress.com/2011/03/14/coppa-milano-sanremo-2011-3-di-3/
It was on the Coppa Milano - San Remo event in 2011.

It was also on the 2011 Mille Miglia.

My reference B20-5625

Paul Mayo

Re registration numbers - yes my car has had 4  UK numbers ! - It is now 2 AOD (which was a new number on a 6th series Aurelia now owned by Gerald Batt). But - it's always been B20-3365 engine 4020 - matching numbers - and those are the ones that matter! As Paul well knows English B20s often change reg numbers! - so his register is very important in keeping track of the factory numbers - keep up the good work Paul

Even if British B20s often change registration numbers it happens more often outside Britain. In many countries cars change registration numbers when they change owners. So of course the chassis number is the best way of identifying a car.

I have been working on the numbers one finds on the trim and mechanical parts of Aurelias.

I would be very grateful to anybody who knows the original number which is found on the back of the alloy, chrome and upholstery trim parts of their cars.
I call this the "Assembly" number and I think Lancia may have called it the "Construction" number in their production logs, but there is no entry there.

If you could send this along with the Chassis and Scocca numbers of your car(s) it would help me and Geoff Goldberg to try to make sense of one aspect of the Aurelia production process.

To give you an idea the following photos are from my B20-3609, with assembly number 855

Do contact as a private message as you prefer or to kerrin2006@btinternet.com as you wish.

Many thanks

Paul Mayo

I think that is the 'coachwork' number used on all the body parts. Mine is 520 - it appears on the glove box lid as well as the places shown in the photographs above. Pininfarina used a five figure number for their coachwork - the last three appearing on the car - and I think this is the same system used on the Aurelia.

Paul and Adrian, this would accord with what I have found on my B20. To my delight (and surprise) it is a matching numbers car, both doors, bonnet, bootlid, boot floor plus numerous small parts all display the same number, 625. The number on the boot floor is preceded by 12 which may be the full 5 figure number to which Adrian refers!!

                     Andy

Dear Adrian,
Thanks for this.  I've just come in from wire-brushing my B20-3609 following an exchange with John Cundy.
His car B20-3017 has a Pininfarina logo stamped in the boot gutter just below the rear window.  I've just found that mine does too.
John also reported a stamp on the boot floor in front of the boot catch mounting.  His is 14069 and other trim parts have 069 on them.
On my B20-3609 I have found this stamp - 14855.  As you can see in my previous posts my trim parts have 855.
Your 3365 has 520.
Together with the left-hand drive 4th Series these numbers might make sense if they started at 14001 with car B20-2952.

I am guessing that 14 is the PF body shell code for the Aurelia, or the 4th series possibly.  More information from owners and restorers required.
I note in passing that the PF Flavia 1800 Coupe had PF code 691 and the later 2 litre models were 693, each plus a number for the individual car.
I know nothing about PF Ferraris, whereas you do.

The Scocca number is separate and appears to go from 1 upwards to 3300 approx. and wonders when and why it was stamped on the car.
The Scocca number now appears to me to a bit like the "Reference" number mentioned in the Aprilia parts book, to be used for ordering spares, but it is not used in the Aurelia parts books.

Do you thus think that 14069 etc is a number applied by Pininfarina on making the shell, and that 069 is then used by Lancia to track all the bits made to fit that shell (N. di Construzione in the production log-books, but with no entry)?
Or did PF also make the trim parts to fit the shell?
I'll post some photos shortly.
Paul with good wishes

Photos from B20-3609 added:  PF logo in rear gutter, PF number in boot floor

Andy - Are you sure the boot stamp is not 14625?  It looks that to me.
Paul Mayo

Great progress... Keep going guys!

I do believe you are right Paul. It is under several coats of paint now, but from the photograph I think it is a 4, not a 2!!

                          Andy

Pininfarina stamp ....... attached is a photograph of the one on my car ... boot gutter just below the rear window.

                                                  Andy

My B50, chassis 1485 had the body number 11110 or 110 stamped or written on all the interior parts and panels, it also had Milano in pencil on the interior door trim tops????

Further to the previous discussion on Aurelia Pininfarina numbers (also more on the Aurelia Facebook pages) I now know from studying information from John de Boer (Italian Car Registry) that the allocation of Pininfarina numbers was not as I thought.  
John de Boer has collected numbers from a wide range of makes and it is clear that the numbers seem to go sequentially through the years.
If there is a prefix, such as the 14 on so many 4th Series Aurelias it probably is to do with the predominance of them being made a a particular time.
The allocation process is not clear.

The number Ade Rudler gave for his B50, starting with 11 is a good example.  11 188 was on a Ferrari, 11 800 was on a Nash Healey.
19 473 is on a Ferrari from 1959, and 19 759 is on an Aurelia B24S 6th Series from 1959.

It might be that later there were definite prefixes for particular models such as the 691 for 1.5 and 1.8 litre Flavias, and 693 for Flavia 2000s and 2000s.

Any contributions welcome

Paul Mayo

Hi, anyone know anything on this one?
Thanks.
Paul

https://www.handh.co.uk/auction/lot/lot-1955-lancia-aurelia-b20-gt/?lot=54193&so=0&st&sto=0&au=501&ef&et&ic=False&sd=0&pp=48&pn=1&g=1&fbclid=IwAR3WwZgRLAFiyRGt6cnvaQ0cGDsYzHQKuU7W0vf3SDii0KmBS7j1H2oYks0

Advert in back of Motorsport, April 1973: https://porschecarshistory.com/wp-content/old/lib/magazines/ms/1973/04.1973.PDF [you may need to copy and paste this in as I don't know how to do a link]

Page 420. Aurelia GT 6th series 1958, registration 700 CHT [? it looks to me from photo], chassis 3923.

For sale by "Robson" who seemingly lived in Lymington and worked in London.

Thanks Mark - having had Motor Sport in the house since I was a boy, I noticed the advert long ago in Motor Sport.  Very helpful of the late Geoff Robson to put in all the details.
He was a very nice man and a well-known architect and owned numerous Lancias including a Lambda.  I think he was a founding member of the Club after the war.
This Aurelia had been Belgium and 10 years ago it was sold in Paris on French number plates.
Paul