Lancia Motor Club

I thought it was about time now I am retired to rebuild the original 2.5 engine for the car. I have had the engine chemically cleaned before I started and built an extraction tool to remove the liner. The engine was actually in better condition than I had expected although it had sat outside, albeit under cover and without its heads. It took a lot of 'persuasion' to successfully remove the pistons (a block of wood and a big hammer).

This project had been planned since the Lancia centenary trip. While out there I picked up a set of gaskets for the engine and various other bits and pieces. However, on checking through the gasket set the paper gasket that fits around the lip of the liner was for a 2.8 engine and not a 2.5. Does anyone have any 2.5 gaskets lying around, before I start to make them out of paper?

Some pictures of the progress are attached.

Dave

Winding that liner out must have been deeply satisfying.  Got a photo of the hole it left?

David

Further progress - at this stage I have to apologise for the photos attached. I have had nothing but rude comments from the family and the offer of a basic lesson on how to wield a camera!

In this section I have taken the plugs out of the crank shaft and cleaned out all the deposits in the journals.........and what a lot there was...probably an egg cupful overall! In the next few weeks I will get the crank off for a regrind. Still haven't fitted the liners back yet but have found some .3 gasket paper from which I am going to make some gaskets when I have acquisitioned my wife's embroidery scissors.

David - thanks for your response - I will endeavour to also attach a picture of the inside of the engine.

Dave

It appears to be a lack of flash/low light issue Dave, hence the lack of sharpness.........hope you don't take my comment as being rude!

Good to see project being progressed



P

I'm starting to put the engine back together and find I am missing an oil thrower for the crank shaft. Having checked the parts manual, there should be one, so I had a look at a spare engine, and on stripping off the front plate, I found there was no oil thrower. Can anyone shed any light on whether there should be an oil thrower or not?

Dave

hi Dave

Do you have the part (item number not the official long number) and page number, from the partsbook. As i have an old engine in bits so i can check.

This all looks great fun David. Please keep posting with photographs, a lot of photographs!!!

                                   Andy

jay
 
  tav 6  no 27


  Dave

Hi Dave

I believe I have a photo of a complete assembled crank (a bit rusty) which I have in storage (dads house) so will check tonight if it has this washer/seal on. Although it could be obscured by the damper, so may have to check in person over the weekend.

This looks like a most interesting thread Dave. I hope we may be able to help with some camera technique while you teach us about Flaminia engines.

 One basic problem seems to be camera shake. The time it takes for the camera to capture an image in the amount of light you have is longer than the time you can hold the camera still. One solution is more light, a flash probably, or to find something to lean the camera against while taking the picture. One of the advantages of a digital camera is that you can check your picture straight away and take another one if it isn't as good as you would like.

Good luck.

After a bit of nudging I realise I have been somewhat tardy in adding to the blog, so here goes, as there has been lots of progress since I last wrote. I made the decision to have a go at boring the block myself never having done this before. Luck was on my side and I acquired a Van Norman Boring Bar from a friend. One of the first things I had to do was to make a plate that would clamp the liners in position and give a base for the boring bar to attach to. This was made big enough to bore both 2.5 and 2.8 engines. An easy way to pick up the stud holes on the block was to put grub screws upside down in the holes setting each one level, placing the steel plate on top, and tapping it with a copper faced mallet. This gave the centre position for all the stud holes, saving a lot of marking out. These holes were then drilled and counter bored to take the cap screws which would hold the steel plate to the block, thereby clamping the liners. A friend (a watch maker) surface ground the clamping plate to ensure its accuracy.

For practice I acquired an old Hillman Minx engine that had been scrapped. This was stripped down and a test bore done. Photos should be self explanatory. I have also put one on of boring the first Flaminia sleeve as it shows the top plate in position.

Dave

David, that is impressive!!! It would not occur to me to attempt to carry out a re-bore myself. That is a great step to take on your own. Please keep the posts and particularly the photographs coming.

                                             Andy

Well done David, I haven`t seen one of those boring bars since my apprentice days in the 60`s. That`s an impressive and accurate job to undertake if you`re not a machinist.
Keep up the good work.
John

I am suitably impressed, you could be starting a new career as a master borer!!!


Great to have had the foresight to find then buy, then keep said piece of impressive equipment, fabulous!


P

The cutting tool in the boring bar is set by placing it in a special micrometer. In this way I set up three different cutting tools which Icould fouthen transfer from bore to bore when I was happy with the finished cylinder. Tool No. 1 makes a roughing cut. No 2 makes a finishing cut and No 3 was used to cut a chamfer on the top edge of the liner which will enable the piston rings to enter the bore more easily. After boring the whole engine block was placed in my wash tank for honing. The fluid had been changed to a degreaser I had found on Ebay, called Fuz. This acted as a lubricant when honing. After honing, the engine block was washed down outside with the garden hose, then dried and WD40 used to prevent it rusting. The position of each sleeve was marked so that they could be taken out one at a time to allow cleaning of the block and the sleeve.

I asked several engine builders if they used any form of sealant where the liners fit into the block. One said he used plumbers' grease, another used a Loctite sealer. I opted for the Loctite sealer.

Excellent, what a great job. Thank you David.

                 Andy

With a piece of equipment like that Dave, you will acquire new friends I am sure. I for one would like to talk to you sometime about boring B20 liners in situ on an engine I have if you are prepared to have a go.
Chris

Chris
Pheeew! I love your faith in my abilities, but frankly as this is my first effort, excluding the Hillman that was already on its way to the scrap yard, I much appreciate the faith, but I daren't do it to someone else's engine at present. We haven't even run my engine up yet, so the ultimate test has not taken place. You would be more than welcome to borrow the equipment if you want to have a go or if you have a more experienced autoengineer in mind. You would probably need to make a new top plate as I don't know whether the stud patterns are the same.

Best wishes
Dave

Hi Dave

Had a look at what I thought was a completed crank, but on closer inspection the bottom sprocket Item 30 Tav 6, wasn’t present and was in my box of spares. So I can only assume that the past owner must have taken the damper of. BTW I have most parts to make up 2 engines but only one block and a very rusted crank, which I purchased in lots of boxes. But what is interesting is that it looks like the sprocket had been removed from its sleeve, the one with the slot for the key. God knows how did that, please see image. However saying that I couldn’t see a washer/plate that resembled item 27, on the crank or in any of the boxes.

Jay
Many thanks for looking - much appreciated. I am going to check the engine that I take out of the Flaminia and see if there is one fitted in that. In the meantime I have got hold of one from a Triumph Stag which is the correct diameter on the bore, and just needs the keyway widening. If necessary, I shall use this.

Dave

While I have been working on the block, the cam shaft and followers were sent away to Newman Cams for polishing etc.

I was lucky to find a place locally (Leicestershire) that had two separate but related businesses under one roof - a crank shaft grinder and Billy the Balancer. The crank was ground and then sent to be hardened, before finally making it back to Billy where it, along with the pistons, con rods, damper, various bolts and tab washers (in fact anything that ran on the crank shaft), were all balanced. The whole process took about 6 weeks.
At this time the cylinder heads were also sent away to have new valve guides fitted, hardened valve seats inserted and a new set of valves lapped in.

When the cylinder heads came back I checked over the spark plug threads and found that some were the worse for wear. Luckily over the summer I had purchased a time-sert kit from a car boot sale, which was brand new and never used, so I set about replacing the threads.

Hi Dave
Hope you are well.
Just been re-reading this thread. Can you tell me what the two bolts are in the centre of the V ?
Cheers
Charles

Camshaft bearing retaining bolts?

 
  Yes camshaft bearing bolts
  I must finish this topic

  Dave

Thanks....my curiosity has been satisfied!

Amazing!!!

It doesn’t take a lot! 😂

Be nice and handy if you could finish it Dave, I'm about to start on inspecting mine.
May well be over to see you at some point, recall you had a large stash of Flaminia parts when I came down to collect those Flavia parts a year or two back. Really ought to get that rear number plate light unit off you too, assuming you still have it, I've not come across one and may get to start on its restoration soon.
Don't suppose you have a decent Flaminia PF coupe rear bumper fo sale?