Lancia Motor Club

This was a post I made under the Piazza thread, but was asked to re-post as the start of a new thread.  Thoughts?

Damn right. Now for the future - 2008 is going to be a good year.  I sense revival, new blood and change.  Indeed, I am feeling positively Churchillian...  Seriously, let no one write this club off, or paint us into a corner where, conveniently for them, we become quietly irrelevant.  This is a big club, a strong club and an effective club - we may have been dormant, but now we have been kicked awake.  We have looked in the mirror, not liked everything we have seen, and resolved to shape up.  A few late night metaphors for all...

Well said, I totally agree, we are strong, we have a great magazine, and although we drive/preserve
old classics, we all look to the future with renewed vigour and await the return of a great Marque.
roll on 2008

'the colonel'
and I'm actually quite sober

Couldn't agree more!

Rodders

Too true. What can be celebrated in 2008 ? - there must be an anniversary of something !



+ can't wait for a cheese and wine invitation from a Lancia showroom :)

Hi,

Just a small suggestion but one that I've been meaning to make for some years now. We have some fliers which are printed which say "Do you drive a Lancia?". I think that it might have slightly better chances of pulling in new members if we say "Do you own a Lancia?". I know it won't make any difference to many, but over the years I have met people who have only joined once their car is going - and their struggle would have been made less daunting with the support of the club.

A very minor point, and overall I think the Club is run very well on minimal resources, but hopefully it is relevant to the thread.

I think Jai makes a good point.I also let my membership lapse in the past as my cars were not in usable condition and I couldn't (in my mind) attend events for some time.Of course we want an active driving club but most members experience periods when their cars are not available for some time due to restoration or other problems and that's usually when you need the most help.Pre forum days that was not so relevant but now it can really make a difference."Do you own a Lancia is better".

For Chris - whose "feeling positively Churchillian" (and I agree):

“We shall not fail or falter; we shall not weaken or tire... Neither the sudden shock of battle nor the long-drawn trials of vigilance and exertion will wear us down.  Give us the tools and we will finish the job.” (BBC radio broadcast 1941-02-09)

Jai has raised a very good point.  Unfortunately the membership application forms were recently reprinted and we have a fairly large stock. 

I'll raise this point at Sunday's committee to ensure that the wording is looked at for the next reprint because people with non-running cars need the Club and the advisors' expertise particularly when they are getting the cars running. 

Diana

The point Jai raises is well made, however, why restrict membership to owners and drivers?  Surely we should be welcoming to anybody who is enthusiastic about the marque, whether they own a Lancia or not.  I joined the LMC about two years before I bought my Fulvia.  Maybe we should go with something more like "Are you a Lancia enthusiast?".

Can we get back to Churchill now?  ;)

Oh yes yes yes..

Tim's gone to Meg Ryan .... :)

Sorry, couldn't resist that ...

must be "autoeroticism".....

I got my November (No. 472) “Viva-Lancia!” last week (things slow down dramatically once Royal Mail hands it over to those African runners with cleft sticks, I tell you  ::)), and was pleased to read Chris, Neil, and Lee’s excellent article about “The LMC Internet Forum”.

For a long time I’ve felt that members who only read “Viva-Lancia!”, are missing out on the many advantages of the LMC Forum, and the Forum is the poorer for not having them on board too, as the LMC’s “Speakers Corner” would be all the better for having a few more hecklers around.  :D

From my own experience, really useful help is generally only a few days away after making a technical post on the LMC Forum, where the news is really fresh, as opposed to my latest V/L which is probably two month's old by the time I get it as an overseas member.  (I’m not knocking the excellent efforts of those involved in V/L, but that’s just the way printed, posted matter is.)

The Forum is also an excellent place to debate the way the club is run, and it’s future direction (obviously we know this, but those not on the Forum probably don't), provided it doesn’t become just another “room for an argument” like that infamous “Monty Python” sketch:

“Is this right the room for an argument?”
“I told you once”
”...I’m not allowed to argue unless you’ve paid.”
“I just paid.”
“No you didn’t”
“I DID!”

(This goes on and on at some length, with more nonsense like “Ah-ha. If I didn’t pay, why are you arguing?”  “…I could be arguing in my spare time.”, which sounds a bit like the LMC Forum at times!)

But the most telling line for me in this somewhat silly Python sketch is, “Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes.”  Nota Bene!

The Ancient Romans (at the root of so much we Italophiles hold dear) knew and appreciated the tremendous worth of the Forum, even though at times it was disorderly, and now and then there was the odd murder…  :P

But having established a case for the LMC Forum, how do we overcome the obstacles of getting more LMC members online?

Once again from my own experience (especially as I don’t have Internet bandwidth worth speaking of, nor a full-time Internet connection), I’ve found it useful to:

• Dial up once a day, but stay ‘logged in’ indefinitely, keeping the Forum page open on my computer desktop.
  Read only the latest posts since my last visit.
  Pick out just the ones I’m interested in :o and quickly read them, then mark them all as read.
  Finally write anything that requires thought, or is lengthy, off-line, and simply paste it into the relevant thread next time I visit the Forum.

Quick and easy!  ;D

Still, I’m amazed that many high-profile LMC members don’t have an identity on the Forum, but given the vitriolic nature of a few posts, I can’t say I blame them.  On the other hand, nobody should feel obliged to have to answer every whim of just a few on the forum who behave like petulant children.  (Let’s get right down to it, and just call a spade a shovel here, shall we?  8))

But to those who haven’ tried it, I can only say that overall the LMC Forum has far more to offer than you could possibly imagine.

Kindest regards,
Guy

P.S. This post has been e-mailed to the LMC Editor for publication in V/L for those not active on the LMC Forum.

Ok, I'll wait for VL and read it then :-)

'the colonel'

Geoff

Stop behaving like a petulant child...... ;D

Well I thought it was funny.

PS: rearrange the following words   Black pot kettle calling :-)

Oi've got me coat on already

and I've left the B
                        u
                          i
                           l
                            d
                              i
                               

Geoff,

You should recall from our delightfully fun, yet surprisingly sober evening dinner at the Café Torino together with Aldo Brovarone and the Gamma Consortium (part of the ”Travels with a hooligan” event last year), that a bit of childish fun is not what I’m writing about.  8)

Geoff

I think we share the same sense of humor... which none of the LMC are on the same wave length.... ;D

wavelength or frequency? All Lancias travel at the speed of light...................

Depends on what your driving....! Now I know that your Fulvia does.... ;D

Sorry Guy,

I understand and agree with your post, I am just afraid that oportunities for a bit of fun have
to be taken advantage of, after all we have these cars for pleasure.

regards
Geoff

Hi Geoff,

I'm glad that we are on the same 'wavelength' as far as owning and driving Lancias for pleasure is concerned.

I was beginnning to think that it was just a jolly good excuse for a few members to moan and be mean and rude to each other... ;)

Looking forward to sharing another bottle of vino (or two) next time we're in England.  Hopefully this will co-incide with another Gamma weekend.  :)

Kindest regards,
Guy.

Guy in my view if you don't moan and gripe than nothing will change and look what happened last year... you also have to remind people of what happened other wise they think all is well when is clearly isn't.

We all have our own opinions and that is what causes people to be rude and mean... too many people on here take things to personnally.

Guy,
let us know the next time you visit and I'm sure we can round up the others
for an evening out.

Tim, isn't it time for your "other" tablets  :-)
lol
regards
Geoff

You must mean the stop leaving threads while I'm meant to be at work tablets?  :D

Yeah ! like what you do is considered work, sitting around all day getting lower ranks to serve you
tea coffee and tiffin

Nothing wrong with Tiffin....

is that the noun or the verb?

Tim,

I could go round and round your little mulberry bush talking about all the truly GREAT things that happened last year, but I won't waste my time.

I tend to look at the glass as 98% full, and concentrate on the doughnut, not the hole...

This thread is about the "LMC Revival  starts here", so stick to the subject please.

Guy

I have my opinion, you have yours..

You have to learn from the mistakes and act on them. The past is very relevant in all issues, something that tends to be forgotten...

If the LMC is to be revived then it has to act on the wrong issues that happened in the past, and not bury it's head in the sand..

Whilst a good morale boosting initiative,I suspect this thread has served its original purpose and is running out of steam.
The LMC is no more or less than the sum of the people's enthusisam that make up the membership and seems perfectly robust enough to me.I see no requirement to talk anymore about having to revive things! You see by the number of regional christmas parties being addded almost daily that spirits are fine and for most people its just "business as usual" ie people enjoying like minded company and appreciating lancias.

I agree. And talking of Christmas parties the Vale of Evesham will be at its usual Italian Portway venue on December 16th. All welcome but places now reducing fast. Please call either myself or Lin for details 01 386 87 1040. 

In the Spirit of Present Christmas good cheer:

"A Merry Christmas to us all, my dears. God bless us" Which all the family re-echoed.
    "God bless us every one" said Tiny Tim, the last of all.

(From Charles Dickens' "Christmas Carol", and nothing to do with Python's "Christmas Carol" with a Kay, or "Rarnaby Fudge", or "Stickwick Stapers" in "The Bookshop" sketch.)  8)

Tim, I have learned from my mistakes (not that you know me well enough to lecture me on that), and pride myself at constantly doing so.

(I'm beginning to think that posting on this forum is my most recent grave error  ::), but I'm learning from this too!)

I believe the LMC has learned from their mistakes too, but unfortunately not everyone does...   :(

Scarpia,

Posting on this forum has done nothing for my morals (on the contrary  ;)), but your good humour and technical assitance keeps up the morale.

Hopefully, many more positive posts will improve both?

Keep up the good work!

Stick with us Guy, there are only one or two trolls on here.

Hear ,hear some things/people are better ignored.

Guy,

what's a "e" between friends.I wouldn't dream of questioning your morals. 

As usual the fingers go faster than the brain and my "spellcheck" dictionaries, (dutch, english and smart ass) failed to flag it and offer an alternative.

anyway glad the morale is in good form and the correction is in place.

 :o

and I left out an "s" in assistance.

(Just having some more childish fun  ;D)

Guy

I was not trying to lecture you at all, and am sorry if it seamed that way.

As for the LMC... maybe that is a new thread I will think about that.

There is a post further up saying to ignore certain people has proved my point about head in sand approach. People in the LMC aren’t allowed there opinions without being harassed.. Also by reminding members of the problems and mistakes I’m classed as a troll, does that mean truth hurts?

 I have had a run in with most on here, but I don't hold a grudge against them.

No head in the sand,just a call for good manners,politeness and common decency towards fellow Lancisti.
Hardly too much to ask ................

So ignoring people is good manners?

Dear Tim,

No harm done - this time!  I'm just being my usual, pedantic self, playing with semantics, and yanking your chain a little!  ;D

I know exactly what you meant, but that wasn't what you wrote...  ???

The very fact that you are being allowed to post your opinions on this forum shows that the LMC is open to suggestions and is willing to accept even very volatile criticism, but remember that not everyone wants to speak to everybody else, nor should they be expected to.

"Birds of a feather flock together", and even in Torino last year where a wonderful spirit prevailed, there were complete strangers who didn't want to speak to me (for what reason I have no idea, perhaps just because 'we hadn't been introduced properly'), and a couple of Lancisti I avoided after getting to know them a bit better.  ::)  They just weren't 'my cup of tea'.  Neither here nor there, no skin off my nose, I still enjoyed a glorious time.

But I have to agree with Eyore along the lines of William of Wykeham (1324-1404) whose saying, "Manners maketh Man" (which was plastered on our high school English classroom wall), and adopted by Winchester College and New College, Oxford as their motto, makes all the difference.

Kindest regards,
Guy.

After some thought....

After all the events of last year, for those that don't know, forgotten, head in sand, whatever... A short summary here... Link Deleted by a member of the committee as they can't face a reminder of the problems or the truth.

Not forgetting the LMC broke the data protection act, and a certain editor has been allowed to use a certain publication for his own means..

What has actually changed this year? And improvements made?

Apart from the articles of memorandum being updated.

Most importantly tone, style, energy, approach, focus etc.  New blood on the committee, new leadership at the helm.  Several really successful events, including some promising new ones, and a thriving local social programme.  And continued work behind the scenes on some of the remaining issues re governance, administration and organisation - more to do, but a far better recognition of what needs doing, and steps to get there.  That's all...

And a clear eyed recognition of what still needs fixing, and what has not worked well.  We're not perfect by a long way, but this is a decent club full of mainly decent people whom you would want to spend time with.  But we have some trolls elsewhere as well as on here - on both extremes of most arguments...

As President of Club LanciaSport I would like to remind readers of this forum that CLS appreciates the freedom that exists here to exchange and express opinion.  And, at no time should any individual post be considered the offically held view of the committee.

Peter W. Baker

So back original question....

What has changed?

New leadership etc does not mean things have changed... There has been loads of great ideas etc posted and banded about, but has any been taken up? 
 
As Peter has said this nothing to do with CLS. It's a LMC issue, Iam still a LMC member.

Maybe that's just a tiny bit like what you are doing (but without his finesse), Tim?  Monopolising the LMC Forum for your own personal vendetta?  ???

Howard Hughes did it, Randolph Hearst did it, and Rupert Murdoch did it, to name just a famous few, but Jack’s a more decent man than all of them put together.  What’s the use of having an Editor without a point of view?  :P

Reading between the lines of the Editorial column in “Viva-Lancia!” during the past year, one would hardly have guessed this was the  so-called ‘Winter of Discontent’, which was only vaguely hinted at.  I’m amazed that he has acted with such restraint, especially after I became really active on the LMC Forum in the last month and read all the posts, considering that I discovered such awful BILE, the vast majority of which sadly emanates from you. :(

“Rome wasn’t built in a day” springs readily to mind, but I suppose you have a plan to single-handedly end the war in Iraq, and create peace in the Middle East by next week? ;D

Personally I thought I was just asking one of the committee members to answer my questions about the promised improvements – and at least people can post an immediate response to my post, unlike in the Viva Lancia…

Personal vendetta = disgruntled LMC Member wishing for improvements.

An editor is certainly allowed an ‘objective’ point of view but I was not aware that threatening behaviour was this.

Finally, what I say may be ‘bile’ in your opinion but nobody has denied the errors and sorry since when are people not entitled to their own opinions without someone constantly telling them they are wrong? This is MY opinion and if others share it – fine, if not, fine – if not then at least people could have the good manners to debate the issue not try to impress their own opinions over others.

If I could end the war in Iraq and the ME next week and stop my friends and colleagues being killed – I would. After many tours I don’t appreciate a comment like that from someone that clearly does not understand what it is like out there…

I re-iterate: I was just asking one of the committee members to answer my questions about the promised improvements

At least then it would prove to people they were trying to build Rome even in some small way.

Tim,
that you hold strong opinions is for nobody a problem, leastways nobody with some backbone.Only dead fish swim with the flow!

Nevertheless, the problem arises in the manner you tend to express them.The comments frequently transgress the fine line between robust challenging of the system and aggressive negativity. I think that distracts from some fair points you are trying to raise because people just "switch off" when they see the smoke rising.

That some things have happened you disagree with is just how life goes but neither reason or justification for returning the compliment with similar behaviour. Nelson Mandela said about negotiation "until I changed myself, I could not change others"
Seems wise to me and might save you a lot of frustration.

It's not so much what you say Tim, it's how you say it.  ::)


I understand it all too well Tim, as I did many tours of duty in South West Africa and Angola fighting terrorists too.  While the loss of precious lives in war is always regrettable, I thought that as a man in uniform you would truly understand my hard-hitting analogy which I used only to show that these are not simple problems that can be solved overnight.  :(


Tim, nobody's going to debate anything with you as long as there's 'conduct unbecoming'.  They're just quietly getting on with the job regardless...

Kindest regards,
Guy.

What he said.  And get back under your bridge.   :-*

Thank you for so pointedly being rude and telling me to "get back under my bridge".

It is clear I am not permitted to express my opinion or request further details on improvements - if any.

My very final comment is to say how no one so far has denied or confirmed what I have been saying...odd.

Farewell for I am now returning to the freedom of my underworld.

don't "get a cob on"
nobody said you couldn't express an opinion but that's not the same as assuming everyone will share it.
It wouldn't be half as much fun if you didn't rock the boat occasionally.Just don't come over as though your trying to sink it.  ;)

You obviously don't get my sense of humour Tim... ::)

Sorry Tim
As the song says.
" it ain't what you do it's the way that you do it,
It ain't what you say it's the way that you say it,
That's what gets results"

I'm unaware of you ever being unable to ask a question or venture an opinion, I would have thought that that in itself was an impossibility, :o but don't be surprised if not everyone agrees with you, or even disagrees with you with the same passion, or in the same manner.

Stay with us. ;)

Brian
8227 8)