Lancia Motor Club

Bugger-hope the damage isn't too bad!
Went to the Lancia Club meeting tonight and about a mile or so from home noticed the engine making rumbling noises. Coasted back home with engine off and once in garage obvious what problem is. One of the oil cooler hoses has come apart denuding the engine of oil.I suppose won't know until a new hose is fitted what the damage to the engine is. At night needle on oil pressure gauge difficult to see so may not have noticed pressure dropping until too late.
Have been out in the Flavia all day and it was running great.
New hoses were fitted last year only a thousand miles or so, not happy at the moment.

Commiserations and everything crossed ::)

Brian
8227 8)

Thanks Brian.

Hope you switched off in time!! Good luck.


                           Andy

Fingers crossed for you Mike, hope theres a happy ending!


P

I had this on my Fulvia once but luckily noted the oil pressure had disappeared. No damage done to the engine. Hope the same for you.

A photo of the damage to the hose would be interesting. I have yet to remake the existing original hoses on my Flavia (did 500 miles over the weekend - was I taking a risk??).

Disaster!!  Bad news Mike. 

Heading home from the same meeting in my coupe with very dim panel illumination it occurred to me that I had no idea what was going on under the bonnet.

Where exactly did the hose let go ?  Fingers crossed for a good outcome.

Cheers,  Peter

Hi firstly thanks for all the good wishes and advice.
The hoses were  replaced in Feb '16 when the garage I use got a replacement made for my leaking original oil cooler.Since then it's done less than 4,000 kilometers.
The hoses were made by Pirtek of Crawley who operate as a franchise all over the UK and Europe,and have a mobile fitting system.From what I gather they reused the old end fittings. The hose has failed at the engine end where the "Banjo" joint is crimped to the hose.
This morning I contacted the guy who runs the Crawley franchise who basically said hard luck, at one point saying "I shouldn't be telling you this but basically we're not supposed to mend old hoses".He told me that his records show it was tested to 120 psi.
I've been in touch with the garage that fitted them who is going to get back to me once he's given the matter some thought.
Obviously the first thing to do is get a replacement hose and in view of this experience I'll not be using Pirtek. Please can anyone suggest the best option for getting one?
What sort of pressure should the oil be going round at as 120 psi seems more than it would be subjected to.Indeed I wonder if a couple of jubilee clips would suffice??
Why does the car have an oil cooler? Is it because of hotter temperatures in Italy or because it's a flat 4? It's the first car I've owned that has one, I've always thought it's the type of thing that mini coopers used to have.I'll try adding some pics in a separate post. Thanks Mike

Sorry can't work out how to upload my photos of the offending part!

Hope it is OK
as to why it has an oil cooler I think it is to do with the oil used back in the 60s the more modern Fulvias do not have one see p93 of Weernink's " The Lancia Fulvia and Flavia"
Clarkey

Think it was probably more a case of more standard equipment in the 'S' not thought necessary on my Rallye coupe, or my 2c.
Can't say i've ever felt it necessary, including a day crossing Spain in 90f heat, from Salamanca to Pamplona.
Brian
8227 8)

(http://BANJO END.jpeg)

Mike

I lost my oil when the hose parted company to its aeroquip union that I had temporarily lashed up with a very strong jubilee clip. Dont follow my example. Also where I have my hoses made at Anglia hydraulics and Hoses they refuse to remake the old terminations which means I lose some originality and pay a bigger bill! Its how they guarantee their work.

I think the oil cooler is there for Italian summer climate and continuous "high speed" (at c4000 all day long) driving. Not sure about the Flavia but the Rallye S and HF Fulvias were fitted with oil coolers that had a thermostat switch so would not open before c80C (you can on the Fulvia oil pressure gauge after a bit of a hot run the oil pressure drops slightly as this valve opens and gves the oil pump more work to do). I would suspect there would be a thermostat as you dont want the oil to be unnecessarily cooled as this would be detrimental to the engine. I notice on my Flavia it builds up heat on log motorway journeys so I am grateful we have this accessory.....

My Flavia Sport has had the cooler removed. I use a 2000 oil filter and pressure sender and now have much more space around the left front spark plug and the whole bay looks tidier. The 2000 did not ever have a separate oil cooler so I think that the assessment of being needed for 1960s oil is probably right.

As far as I know all Flaminias have an oil cooler. I suspect it was just the quality level Lancia worked to then. Presumably this carried over to the Flavia initially till costs started to be cut.

Hope it is ok, a rumble is probably not as bad as a knocking, mains rumble, ends knock, fingers crossed 

Thanks again for your contributions, hopefully the damage won't be too bad but I'm prepared for the worst if necessary.
I will be exploring the idea of dispensing with the oil cooler. It would save money on a new hose for starters, although blanking off will have a cost but I guess will be less. The big benefit would be peace of mind as if I continue with the cooler I may spend more time watching the oil pressure gauge than the road, checking for the slightest sign that it's about to blow again.
The Flavia isn't subjected to prolonged driving at speeds, abuse, high mileage and has a yearly oil/filter change which is every 3,000 miles max. I was advised to use Valvoline. I presume an oil temp gauge can be fitted to monitor the situation and i presume if needed the cooler can be refitted.
I have got some good photos of the Flavia from yesterday outside Derek Jarman's cottage and garden in Dungeness which I'll post on the Flavia Facebook page in due course as I can't figure out how to post them here.

Hi Mike

To post photos you click on the Additional Options below the text box and then click on Choose File option, then select the photo file to add. You can add extra photos by clicking on the more attachments option.

Peter

and make sure they are small photo files..... c1mb? I tried 4mb and failed....Tim

I think removing it is the best option if the engine can work without it. I had the opportunity to fit an oil cooler to my 1300 Fulvia. After a bit of thought I decided not to because it's an extra complication and something else to go wrong. Plus of course, Lancia didn't think it necessary to fit one to my Fulvia to start with. As you say, you can keep it and it will nag at you every time you drive the car or remove it and never have another problem with it, ever.

Lets face it,  we don't exactly live in a tropical climate ::)

I contacted Omicron who told me that oil cooler hose end fittings are unobtainable and that they refit the old ones.However they found that using too much pressure to crimp the end on results in failure and that their contractor knows just the right amount of pressure to set the crimping machine at.I was also advised not to dispense with an oil cooler as this would disturb the oil's natural flow.
I went to see the mechanic who looks after the car and we had a useful discussion and agreed that the first thing to do is to get the car into his workshop drop the sump and assess the extent of any damage.
The work can't be scheduled in for a week or more and I guess the Flavia won't be back on the road for sometime.
With global warming is the present climate in East Sussex comparable with Italy's 47 years ago? As an increasing proportion of the local population now wear shorts all year (for non sporting purposes)I do wonder.

A solution might be to replace the existing oil cooler with a modern one?

Mike I may be wrong but I think the access to big ends is through a panel at the top of the engine. Remove the carb/manifold etc and starter motor to access. You cannot get to main bearings without the engine removed as you need to split the crankcase. This is very expensive. I suspect you may have started to run a bigend and you may get away with fitting a new set of shells.

Thanks for the info about access to the big ends. I think I'll contact Colin from the Flavia Consortium to ask about this and other issues such as can the engine be run without an oil cooler.I suspect I'll also need advice about sourcing parts once the extent of the damage is identified.

Mike,

I know this is probably a bit late, as I have only just seen your post.

I concur with Tim about "Anglia Hose and Hydraulics", they are very good, and know their stuff, I have had them make up all sorts of hoses, not only for my Flavia, but also for my old motorbikes, and they have always been first class.

In addition DON`t use anyone who re-uses the old end fittings !

I hope it all turns out well.

Bob