Lancia Motor Club

However, I was contacted by a fellow forumiste who knew that I was persuadable to the idea of another project and he suggested a 1600 HF Lusso ......

We had an HF (EKB 846 L) when I was growing up, but it was before I could drive - I loved it and was itching to have a go. Unfortunately it was sold before I passed my test so I have always wondered what it would have been like to drive, so after a 35 year wait .....

This car was built in 1972 and has the correct "chairs & flares" etc, still has its bumpers and is complete and MOT'd and has done 33,000 miles. It has also been badly resprayed many years ago in a metallic Ford blue

It belonged to an American couple, Paul and Lily English who had 2 HFs , one they rallied and this , the spare car ! Unfortunately Paul died 18 months ago and Lily sold the rally car, but because this car had been stored for 9 years in a container, it took more time to get around to doing something with it.
She asked a friend who had been involved with their rally prep to get the car back on the road and sold. As expected it needed fuel , electrics and brakes doing , but it got an MOT last month and had done 8 miles since

I bought it, but unfortunately it was necessary to trailer the car to Portsmouth docks (I live more than 600 miles away in the south of France), so the first time I got to drive it was yesterday morning.

Leaving Le Havre, I was both excited and scared,and had no idea what was in store - and I had to get a move on because my wife was expecting me back last night so we could press our wines today.......

To cut a long story short, we (the HF and me) made it back last night, after 600 plus miles she gave 35 mpg, used no water and a good pint of oil. The subframe mounts came loose and she popped and banged a bit , and the wheels (flatspotted tyres ???) were badly out of balance, but apart from that an unadventurous, albeit noisy drive home. As a plus, she probably has the best 5 speed ZF box I have ever driven

I stuck to a self-imposed 3500 rpm limit, just to let things settle in , but this equated to a cruising speed of about 70mph, so reasonable. With stops, it took about 12 hours

In the daylight she stills looks fab and my wife is already hooked, despite the colour

There is a lot to do to get her right, not least a bare metal respray, no time pressures though - I also have a couple of other projects to finish first !!

Many thanks to Brian Hilton who has been instrumental and hugely helpful in my getting the HF, and it was a delight to catch up with him and Fay on Saturday and have lunch at the Shuttleworth collection at Old Warden

Just lovely Simon, I think the word you were looking for was suggestible!!

Good that you got home safe and sound, I wonder when it last did a 600 mile trip in one day.

You'll soon have to move to a property with an even larger grange!

Good luck with this one.

P

Ford colour or no it is very pretty. Congratulations.

Your gonna have to knock out a lot of vino now  :o ;)  enjoy

Well done you !!!

Fantastic! Very brave to do a 600 mile trip in a car that has stood for so long. I would have been a bit worried about sticky smoking brakes more than anything else. Does look pretty in that blue but I know that if I had a 'blank canvas' on colour for a Fulvia it would take a lot of thought to reach a final decision.

C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre!

Just to add to the story, i was contacted by Geoff Johnson who had been approached at the Knebworth Classic car show in August and asked could someone help, as he had a Fulvia Hf 1600 to sell for a friends widow.
Geoff asked could I help.
I contacted Julian and arranged to go and have a look and see if I could help, after talking it over I took a series of photos.
These I passed to a friend and asked did he know of anyone who might be interested?
Simon's name was mentioned and shortly afterwards Simon contacted me, and I put him in touch with Julian.
When Simon informed me he bought the Hf , I offered to make my self available for him when he came to collect it.
So it was a joint effort by a number of Lancisti who helped find this lovely car a new home , where it will be loved and cosseted, and join with other well loved Lancias.
Brian
8227 8)

Simon the unstoppable!!!!!!  As long as it leads to highly entertaining reading on this forum I cheer....
Wel done Simon, although personally I like the European headlight arrangement better, but love RHD drivers!

When my Euro spec Fulvia was in Graham Bates workshop in the mid 90's he kept looking at the front and in the end decided he wanted his UK 1600HF to have the same look. Out came the cutter, off came the 'eyebrows' and that's how he ended up with a RHD low light version.

Am I alone in liking the UK look?   I like the S1s as well mind...

I think that, rather like the Morris Minor, the higher headlights change the whole look and make it much less "of" it's original period. As such the look has remained seeming contemporary for longer.

No David, I had a series 1 Rallye Coupe  and I liked the front end treatment, but I also like the series 2/3 raised headlights.
Brian
8227 8)

There was quite a debate on Facebook on this topic a little while back, with the Italian community generally thinking that the UK regulations spoiled the design. Personally, I like both the mainland European look and the UK raised headlight look.  I guess I'm biased as the S2 that I'm currently renovating is my third Fulvia with the UK headlamps!

I've always preferred the UK look as I think it balances neatly with the upswept rear.

Simon - to please everybody you'll have to have one side Euro spec and the other UK spec. Well, everybody apart from the bloke at the Controle Techique place.

A little progress on this one .....

I found that the brake pedal was not how I wanted it (plus a drop in reservoir level) so on closer inspection discovered that a rear caliper was leaking even after it had been re-sealed. On top of that it had had the bleed nipple and union threads re-tapped on the same caliper , meaning non standard brake connection and difficult bleeding ...... so new s/h caliper sourced, stripped, re-sealed and fitted. New brake pipe made up and all is well again. Will use it for a few days and then re-bleed

At Padova, amongst other gems, I picked up some new engine mounting rubbers and rear subframe mounts - they have transformed the drive-ability, no creak from the subframe and much nicer and smoother acceleration.

The engine stabilizer adjuster was also seized, so that has been off, freed and refitted

Lastly, the wheels have been balanced

A few things to make her nicer to drive !

Next, sort out a couple of rattles on the rear suspension, sort out a few wiring gremlins and keep using her. I suspect the valve guide seals will need to be done as well, so a few more things on the shopping list

ps I like European headlights on S1's and UK spec on S2's - good job it's not the other way round !

pps if anyone has a rear engine mount (wishbone thing that attaches to the gearbox) and a couple of correct allen screws that they would like to sell, plus a clutch return spring (pedal end) please let me know, thanks

R U missing the wishbone or the larger rubber metalastic bush that is bolted to it?

What allen screws? Round the bell housing?

Yes the wishbone has been repaired (see seized stabilizer adjuster above ...) and a couple of the bell-housing bolts are missing
Ta

This afternoon I decided to have a look at the heater controls - heater valve seized and subsequently the top lever had been snapped off. It is a fairly major job to replace these levers, so I decided to strip the whole dashboard and sort out the other niggles as well.

On top of that I have also come across a couple of messy mods, a molten wire, disconnected bulbs and quite a few nuts and screws missing , so hopefully I can do it all in one go

I have new levers - quite a few spare if anyone is interested - and a new valve, so hopefully I can get it back together over the next couple of days with everything nicely cleaned and lubricated and working as it should

You don't hang about. My heater hasn't worked for years from the lever. It didn't snap - I think the cable rusted up. I'm not as brave or skilled as you to start pulling everything apart so I just used to manually do it from the passenger footwell (LHD) and use a basic summer/winter setting. Now that seems a bit seized. As it's now mollycoddled over winter when I do take it out I just wear gloves! Which brings me to another point - is there anyway to close off the chrome fresh air vent on a Fulvia? Have I forgotten something over the years? During the cold months I just point it over to the passenger side. As I had a passenger on a cold trip last November I took the vent out and taped up the back of it. Not an ideal solution.

http://www.viva-lancia.com/specials/de-carbon/de-carbon.htm

Stan - both the lower levers need to be over to the right to shut the air off - assuming the controls still work.....

Thanks Tim. I'll investigate that. I probably knew that 24 years ago..............

You'll also find shock absorbers along with other bits here:

http://www.bielstein.com/lancia/fulvia

The lowest shuts the chrome mid vents but if you dont shut the other you get 2x cold air through the screen vents.

Best solution is to sort the valve!!

Well, I am looking forward to see if my efforts work and thanks Tim for the explanation !

I need to get a wiggle on because I have promised to pick Mathilda up from school in the Fulvia tomorrow afternoon, and it is VERY cold here at the moment .....

The control panel is back in and working as it should. The cigarette lighter , or iPhone charger as it is nowadays, had rusted up , so that has been fettled and works now. The fan wasn't working either and that was due to oxidation on the terminals, so that's been done as well - it has a nice click when you change speeds - very satisfying !

All the fan switch and inter-lever rubber spacers were perished and need to be replaced. The fan switch spacer was replaced with a couple of copper washers and I had spare rubber washers for the levers, but I suspect that they are all getting old now !

Other than that, new wires soldered into one of the switches, repairs to the dash mouldings, everything cleaned and painted (if necessary) and more wiring checks

The temp gauge still doesn't work , I think it must be wiring because 12V across the dismantled gauge makes it move. Still having the same issue with the ignition so tomorrow will jury-rig a Renault 4 switch to see if I can identify the source

Lastly, a Halda had been fitted to the glove box and has broken the hinge due to it's weight - can anyone help with a hinge or lid ??

I can see a slot and holes for a radio.  What's the plan for the dash? 

I may have a spare hinge and/or glove box lid, a trip to the Fulvia shed required, l’ll let you know Thursday

Neil, that would be great ! Thanks - you wouldn't have a clutch lever return spring in there as well ?? (the one that fits on the splined gearbox shaft)

David, current thoughts are to keep the car absolutely standard HF Lusso, including going back to Rosso York. So I could fit a period radio, but I like the Fulvia script so plan to keep that and now my iPhone (cigar) socket works I can just plug in sounds that way - if I want them because the under bonnet orchestra is usually enough

Good photos. That's the first time I've ever seen what's behind the heater controls. I hadn't realised the plastic levers attached to big chunky metal ones. I thought the whole thing was plastic and that's why they got broken sometimes. Of course, I should have known, if Lancia could overengineer something, they would. Repainting it in the original colour hints at a proper subframe out strip down. Or is the engine bay still in original paint? Nice Marron Fulvia today in 'Lancias seen on the road'.

Slightly off topic as I am working on my newly acquired B12, and have got to the water pump.

This is what I found courtesy of Paul Mayo's workshop manual:

The Aurelia water pump is beautiful and excessive in its design.  Drive and fan loads are isolated and dealt with by a pair of large ball bearings, just like the car’s wheel hubs.  The ‘drive shaft’ water pump spindle floats independently in a wide bushing.  The only fault is expense.  Countless complex machine operations are held to tight tolerance.  Hubs, bearings, bushings, spaces are expenses offered to an ideal of excellence not often shared with the ultimate driver. The Ferrari water pump used on the V12 is agricultural in comparison – but more than adequate.  The advantages of the Aurelia water pump are academic and unseen in use.
The excellent handling, fair performance and wonderful lines of the Aurelia sold a good number of rather expensive automobiles.  The excesses throughout the car made each sale a dubious success.  The losses mounted.  A car “too good for its own good”, according to Setright.  If the Aurelia is too good for its own good, its water pump is far too good for a water pump.

looking at the pics of behind the dash it is darned handy having the fusebox inside the car

"If the Aurelia is too good for its own good, its water pump is far too good for a water pump."
Same goes for the Lambda!
Regards, John

Sure is. I was once in the queue just about to go out in the rain at the Castle Coombe trackday. My wipers packed up but by the time I was waved out a new fuse had been put in without a single raindrop on my head.

Good run out today to test everything - heater is excellent, maybe too hot even ! Need to adjust slightly so it closes fully, but air can be directed as required ....

And the temp gauge works - Phew !

Replaced a couple of headlights (other LHD outer lamps due to arrive from Italy in the next couple of days) and refitted the grill so it isn't bent like a banana, plus a few other details

Abandoned the 3500 rpm limit so smiles all round

Still need to sort out the ignition switch problem and next are the rear end rattles

Simon,  I have located the spare glove box lid with hinges, I'll send you a photo later.

Neil, If you can get the hinge to me today I can bring out to Simon as I am flying out on Friday (fat chance I know).

Mission impossible I fear...  That is a shame, let me know if you have any other dates in the near future.

This is it until the new year sometime...

Hinges (& glovebox lid) dispatched!

Brilliant, thanks very much - another job crossed off the list !

Not posted for a while, December spent pruning and then Christmas

Lancia ownership is rarely straight-forward and today was a case in point. It was a nice, warm, dry day so I thought I'd pop over to the MOT station to organise a Controle Technique (CT) for the HF. I was able to do it now because the new V5 had arrived over Christmas , having taken a while because it came from the estate of the previous owner, anyway .....

I don't have an electric pump yet, so once the fuel was up she started straight away (full choke , foot on clutch and don't touch the throttle for mine). I drove the 5 miles to the garage and as luck would have it, an elderly gentleman with a Renault 4 had forgotten to come for his RDV, so they said they could do it straight away

30 mins later I had my nice , new CT. Couple of minor advisories that I knew about , but OK for 5 years. The guys at the garage loved the car and couldn't believe how good the brakes were !

Now for the fun, I roared off up the road with the new paperwork proudly piled on the passenger seat and then 1 mile from home I ran out of petrol !

The gauge has never worked and I had even bought a secondhand tank unit on eBay last month - but of course hadn't fitted it !
I phoned Juliet for assistance, so she turned up 5 mins later in the Land Rover with a gallon of petrol and a tow rope (just in case) , I topped up the tank, turned the key,  blipped the throttle ...... and the cable snapped

Since we were on a single track road at "rush hour" in the dark, we just towed the car home and I will sort it out tomorrow !

Tant pis

ps photo taken at the end of Nov, no leaves left now

Yes, it's strange when you have days like that. At least these little problems are happening close to home and aren't major. Might be worth fitting a new clutch cable too so that you know you don't have to worry about that in the future.

I think it is historic car ownership, in addition to fettling my new HF 1600 - see seperate post - I had the back axle refurbished on my GT junior, I refitted it and took it out for a test drive and on over run the handling was horrible, to the extent that it almost threw me into a spin in the fast lane of my local dual carriageway at 80 mph, was fine up until then, on puling over I found that the wheel nuts on one of the rear wheels had come loose and were almost off- I was lucky - then the realisation the wheel brace was in the garage, so a very slow trip home, stopping every mile to hand tighten the nuts!

Loose wheel nuts - scary !

I took the broken cable off the car today (broken where it goes through the bulkhead) and decided that since the tank was empty I would take it out and clean up the boot

As always happens, I ended up taking everything out ..... I had an irritating knock on the rear suspension which I found out was a loose and seized shackle on the nearside spring hanger.

The nearside (UK) rear shackle was a real pain to remove but it eventually gave in to my efforts. Nothing damaged apart from 1 bolt which because it was exceptionally tight, got bent in the press

I was always going to strip, check and rebuild it all, but hadn't anticipated doing it just yet. I will replace any worn bushes, fit a new exhaust and change the brake pipes because most of the unions are rounded off. Whilst it is all out I can prepare and underseal the body and strip and paint the mechanical bits

I am only going to go as far as the lip of the boot because all the paint will be coming off when Dog gets the car

Simon - I'd like to remove the rear suspension of my S2 Coupe but have done nothing like this before.  Can you tell me broadly what the main steps are?  Do the springs have to be supported when the shock absorbers are removed, or are the shocks not in compression when the wheels are removed and the suspension hangs free?

Hi Norm
Taking off the rear axle wasn't difficult, it took about 3 hours in total on my own, but I only had 2 seized bolts - one the cause of my problem.

Because I want to tidy it all up I decided to remove more rather than less and I think it is quicker and easier in the long run because you get better access, but roughly what was entailed is as follows:

Remove petrol tank (probably optional)
Strip out mat, disconnect wires to sender, undo bolt and drain tank, remove breather pipes (top) and outlet pipes underneath. Undo filler pipe and remove flange bolts. Lift out the tank

With the car body on stands (high as poss using rear cill mounts, front wheels blocked etc) - remove the exhaust - I split it at the 4 into 2 because it is easier, then work through all the bits - I left the handbrake cable attached to the axle because I will deal with hub removal later

Remove the brake line to the limiter, seal it so you don't get air back into the master cylindre. Remove the brake limiter and bar , take off the exhaust heat shield so the anti-roll bar can come off with the axle

Now you're ready to drop the axle, with it hanging you can remove the bottom damper bolts (lever under the bush while you pull the bolt out and let the damper extend) Same with Panhard rod
Jack and support the middle of the axle and remove the rear shackles ( easier said than done and you can waste hours here). Once the rear mounts are undone, disconnect the 8 front bolts and slide the axle backwards. Lower the jack and it is all on the floor

Let me know if you want anything more specific or photos
Good luck !

Thanks Simon - that's incredibly helpful.  I've already removed the petrol tank and exhaust system so I'm part way there.  The car is at the welding shop at the moment so the rear suspension job is on the list for when I get it back.
Cheers, Norm

Well done on the CT - and more than that on marrying so well...hope "the price" not too severe for the rescue.

Nice press, and how much harder would it have been without that lift?

David, the price for the rescue was not too onerous - to Juliet it's never a huge surprise and I did break down (technical not emotional) several times during our courtship and she still said "Yes". It is her birthday this weekend so extra big pressie I think !

I've not been idle this week, despite a horrid cold. A before and after picture of the rear spring (still to separate the other one) , a picture of some of the bits cleaned and painted and then the nice new silent blocs in the spring. The larger (front) one had to be chamfered before it would push in.

As you can see from the "before" picture, it really was worth separating the springs because they had begun to deteriorate. They have been de-rusted, treated and painted. Next is to reassemble - I plan to re-use the interleaves and lubricate with a smear of coppaslip

I have gone over the under-boot floor with care and removed any loose areas of underseal, treated the surface rust and then brush painted it all with a white spirit based anti-rust paint. Next will be to spray a rust retardant underseal and probably waxoyl as well ! Can't be too careful

Finally a couple of pictures inside the boot area before it gets cleaned up and painted

Springs, suspension etc look superb. I'm not sure I should read this thread as a Fulvia owner. It's making me nervous about my springs, bushes etc. A bit like reading a medical dictionary and coming away convinced you've only an hour to live. Happy birthday to Juliet.

Simon - looking great! 
What materials did you use to treat and paint the springs?  How do you plan to clean the interleaves?  I see from a recent Facebook post that replacement interleaves are available from Cavalito - at least for the front.  I imagine they'd cost an arm and a leg so I'm likely to follow the same path as you.
Norm

Is the blue growing on you?  I rather like it.

Superb workmanship as always Simon. Keeping mental notes for when I restore my HF.
Is Copaslip a good idea when you have the inter leaf spacers. I thought that was the purpose of them.  Won`t it attract dirt and grit? I`m interested in your thoughts.

Thanks everyone
Re springs, interleaf is available from one source for 42 euros if I recall (not sure if 1 side or 2 though) I cleaned mine up by soaking in a degreaser for a while and then brass-wire-brushing to get the dust/rust off. I have always added a smear of coppaslip to leaves, maybe it could attract dust in theory, but I prefer that they slide better - again personal theory. Indeed if it moves it gets coppaslipped ......

Re paint, I stripped off the rust with a plastic paint stripping wheel on the roloc , painted the leaves with rust converting primer and then a thin satin black to look nice. I don't think any paint will add much abrasion resistance though

Most of the silentblocs were in serviceable condition ,except the problem one, and could easily have been re-used. However I had all the silentblocs on the shelf so decided to fit anyway because I am not planning on stripping it all again any time soon. The cotton reel bushes on the ARB were the worst and did need replacing though ( where ARB attaches to the vertical bar on the top spring plate)

I didn't change the square ones in the chassis legs - I didn't have any and they are are available for 34 euros each if I change my mind, but now everything is free and lubricated won't be difficult if it ever needs to be done

So Stan, I suspect your silent blocks are OK , but the ARB will be showing some wear , so no need to stay awake at night worrying !

Re Blue, yes I have come to like it, it looks good with the chrome bumpers etc. Still erring towards the original Rosso York though

My Sport is rosso york.   It looks really well, not so lairy as alfa red.   I am glad I chose that colour.   Mr Google brings up lots of nice pictures...

http://www.autobelle.it/annunci/vendo_lancia_fulvia_hf_biella_168675.php#photoexpand

Thats quite cheap for an HF in Italy???

That is cheap. Always hard to tell, but looks pretty good in the photos.

Yes it is cheap, at today's prices, but the ad expired nearly 5 years ago! David has only put the link on the show a HF in Rosso York.

Then I retract. That was expensive!

shows how much they have gone up in five years, reminds me of looking for a 993RS RHD for a friend about 10 years ago, 964RS just not selling at about 25k and we finally found a mint low miles 993 RS for £62k, he sold it 3-4 years later for £120k now about £250 - £300k he 964rs's are now well up into mid £150k +, I think in about 3 - 4 years the s2 HF's will be at current fanalone levels and fanalones will be up by at least 50%.......

Having said all that, I am trying to find the formula for Rosso York and cannot - I can only find Lancia code 126-178F and according to what I have written on the garage door my car is Fiat Rosso Nearco anyway - Lancia no 108.    Anyone had some paint made up recently?   I need to do a bit of respraying.

David

My Gamma Coupe is Rosso Nearco. I have the formula (attached). Also a pic of my car - is your car darker?

Tim

Rosso York on the Lechler data base is not a simple matter.

There are 5 flavours of an FCA colour that existed from 1965-1980.

Also varies in formula if you go 1 or 2K direction.

Re Rosso York - if I keep it there is enough of the original colour hidden around the car to match it - Dog is very good at this because of all the SMART repair work he does. I think MIPA may have a code to start us off on the right track

ps - my rosso york is more Costa than Gamma !

Been doing some grotty jobs recently - in between pruning and skiing !!

The inside of the boot has now been finished, cleaned out, rubbed down, new plate in one corner, de-rusted and undercoated before an anti-rust paint brushed on and then a final cover with gravel-spray (overpaintable kind). This last stage gives a finish that approximates the Lancia finish and I can satin black it if there is any overspray during the body paint-job

Underneath I have used a Shutz-type uderseal that has anti-rust additives. Once the car is back on the road after all the work I can go over it all with Waxoyl

Final job this week was stripping the old underseal from the inner wheel arch, ready for the various stages of protection ....
Lot of work for bits that no-one will ever see !

"gravel-spray"?

Is it not called gravel spray , maybe stone chip ?? - It is a textured paint (undercoat) that is often used under the bumper line and on cills before painted in bodycolour. I have been using a UPOL product called Gravitex at about £10/litre

Been pottering away this week during rain delays .... rare here and I depressed already and can't wait for the sun to return

Starting to put it all back together again, so a few photos and comments

The badges have cleaned up nicely, a before and after. I used a small brass bristled wire brush to clean the relief part of the badge, then scotch-brite'd the raised parts and sides, once clean it was then sprayed with acrylic lacquer

The breather pipes and box were cleaned with white spirit and acetone. Care needed with the Cavis Benz script because the white spirit is OK but the acetone removes it. There was quite a lot of Rosso York overspray on the pipes and white spirit won't remove it

Spring has been re-assembled (with smear of coppaslip). You need to clamp the leaves together to get the locating bolt through. Still waiting on some more spring clamps to arrive, but the first one has been fitted

Various pictures of the bits going back in, if you see what looks like specks of rust - it isn't, just splodges of coppaslip !
I fitted a new brake limiter because they are so cheap and why not ! The fuel pipes were pitted so they were rubbed down and hammerited.

The breather pipes and filler pipe all look nice and shiny now they are back in place. The bobbin rubbers on the anti-roll bar are held in place with top hat washers, these in turn are held in place with roll pins, not split pins as I originally thought. New ones came from Omicron with some other bits.

I have bought De Carbon shock absorbers, but they were quite difficult to find at a sensible price. Cavalitto and Omicron are out of them but I found a set (f+r) in Italy.

Now waiting on some more rust converter to arrive so I can finish the wheel arches, but I still have to strip and clean the other spring and axle.

Question -- Is it possible to remove the hubs on the ground , with my newly acquired centre nut tool ?? Or will it be easier to refit the axle albeit briefly ?

More ....

Forgot to mention that care is needed to fit the spring - with the front bolt in place, you haul down on the back of the spring whilst jacking the centre of the spring. When it is stretched enough you slide the rear, lower bolt into place. Bit of a handful on your own !

If you can hold the axle to prevent 200+ft lb torque when undoing the hub nut then you do not need to attach it!!

Nice detailing btw.

Love the green pipes. 

The inside of the boot is now so nice I could understand you wanting your girls to wrap their luggage in blankets to protect the car ;)

The extent of the bow in that rear spring surprised:  "you haul down on the back of the spring whilst jacking the centre of the spring".  Did you have to jack AND haul at the same time?  Able to pull it down (hence to length) by hand?   How far short of the shackle was it before the push and pull?  The craziest spring "before and after" has to be the Aprilia...

As for the rain - you do need that water in the ground at some point...  Just put Carcassonne into my weather favourites.  You get sunshine tomorrow but we're four or five degrees warmer. 

It's looking really good Simon. I have a couple of questions that you might be able to help with:

(1) Was there a rubber strip on each of the flanges inside the boot on the rear of the wheel arches?  I had one on one side of mine only, and wondered if they were factory fitment.  See pictures 1 and 2.   

(2) This has puzzled me for a while.  Should the corners of the boot be sealed , or was a gap left deliberately for some reason?  In my car there was a rubber strip stapled to the boot floor and covering the vertical flange at each corner of the boot. I removed  these to allow the corners of the boot floor to be removed  and replaced with new metal.  Now I have to decide how to replace them.  There was a narrow gap between the edge of these rubber strips and the inside of the rear wing.  It's not clear to me whether there should be a gap there or not.  I can see the strip on your picture (the one showing the green pipes) but can't see whether there's a gap or not.  My third and fourth pictures show the right corner of my boot before and after removing the rubber strip from that side. 

Looks familiar!
http://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=9873.0
Is the rubber on the arch seam to protect hands from sharp edges when you're putting stuff in the boot? And a rubber flap on the floor perimeter to seal to the outer wings to prevent water ingress? See to remember seeing something similar on infill panels on the front wings of my S1 Beta HPE to stop crud getting to the back of the wing behind the wheel.
Guy

I was thinking the same Guy. My 1978, pre first facelift S2 Beta Coupe had closing panels in the rear of the front wheel arches with a strip of rubber stapled to the outer edge where it met the wing. In that case the wing was a bolt on item so the rubber strip created a seal no matter how the wing sat. Perhaps there was something in the construction process of the Fulvia that made panel fit vary from car to car.

Hello Simon.  All your work is looking very good indeed.  A very small point, however :-  the photo of the L/H spring rear shackle shows the spring eyebolt with the head to the inside and the nut to the outside.  Once the exhaust silencer is in place, you might find it impossible to remove the shackle bolt from the spring eye in the event of you needing to remove the spring again (?).   I would suggest that you have both the upper and lower bolts fitted the same way, with the nuts and split pins to the inside, on each respective side of the car - on the R/H side the fuel tank pipe can present a similar sort of problem.

Regards - Roddy

The boot looks good with the Stone guard Simon. As ever, great attention to detail.
Keeping notes for my 1600 HF resto.

Difficult to say, there is less sunshine oop North.  I shall ask the chap who did the top coat.

Thanks for comments (v pretty Sport by the way !)

The weather has returned to normal and is as David predicted, sunny and cold , especially in the mornings. My LMC overalls are great for keeping the middle warm

Regarding the spring, I used the transmission jack under the middle and raised it with the foot pedal whilst pulling down on the silentbloc, it probably needed to find about 4 inches of extension. And this leads to Roddy's point. I had to fit the lower bolt in that direction because I couldn't flatten the spring enough to have the hangers vertical (ie so the bolt can be fitted from the gap behind the wheelarch). Having said that, I don't think the hangers are long (or short) enough to clear the bodywork.

The bolts came out this way round and the only way I can see them being fitted as per Roddy's suggestion is to fit the hangers to the spring first - which I can try easily enough, but will probably need an extra pair of hands. Are other people's bolts fitted the same way around or opposite like mine ?

Norm, there was only one rubber strip - on the opposite side to the filler , like yours. Re the stapled rubber, same with mine, but it had caused the edge of the boot floor to become frilly so I made a new plate , leaving a gap to the bodywork and then filled the gap with a good thick flexible bead of tiger seal / Sikaflex. The original rubber seems porous and sponge-like,  ergo - disaster !

So it isn't exactly as it was, but hopefully it will be more water-tight

Thanks for that information Simon.  Funnily enough I was able to pick up a couple of metres of the flange rubber strip at Malaga Retro show yesterday.  With regard to the boot corners I'll look to do something similar to you with the sealer.  I won't know how big my gaps are until I get back from Spain in ten days or so. 

It is great to be able to benefit from your expertise.  I'm glad you bought another Fulvia!

Hello Simon.  Apologies, I have been confusing you, and possibly others - my memory is playing tricks - the bolts are fitted as you detail.  I do now remember the problem of the fuel filler pipe preventing the complete removal of the bolt, and I had to remove one shackle arm to slide the spring and bush off sideways.  A long Melco tyre lever, blocked between the spring and the chassis rail allowed the eyelet to slide as the spring was released or straightened on refitting.

Regards -   

Thanks for clarifying Roddy

A silly job this afternoon whilst waiting for UPS to deliver a parcel ......

The leather straps that hold the spare wheel and jack in place were looking a bit tired and dirty. The strap that goes over the spare had a broken buckle connection and the loop had snapped , so I shortened the strap, cut a new eye for the buckle pin and resewed it. I cheated slightly with the loop - I went in search of a piece of black leather and when I came downstairs with one of Juliet's "old" handbags to cut up, strangely she got upset and returned with an old leather belt instead ! So it's not quite right but works and is J's contribution to the rebuild.

The other straps needed a good clean, feed and polish (good old Kiwi shoe polish)

Oh and UPS never turned up !

It's raining again - part of me is happy, part less so ..... we have bought another vineyard and I want to get cracking with it - anyway bit of garage time !

The other wheel arch has been stripped and rust-converted (still wet) and I have started to dismantle the rear axle and other spring.

More heat required to dismantle this spring , but the bushes came out easily, so it's ready to be cleaned up.

With the axle, I thought I'd have a go at stripping it on the floor (plus I had an extra pair of hands) so I bolted a long bar to the spring mount, fitted the 3 pronged tool, fitted a T-bar - then long lever on one side and gentle taps with a lump hammer on the other and "hey-presto", both sides came apart.

After backing off the adjusters the hubs pulled off without any fuss, so now there is another large pile of rusty bits in my "to do" box

As David will confirm, more rain due tomorrow so hopefully I can get with the axle and paint the wheel arches

Good idea to lever the axle. Who was the other pair of hands?

The other pair of hands belong to Merv, we were due to attach vines and lift wires today but because of the rain I got him to strip the wheel arch - Poor lad !

I have spent all day cleaning bits and undersealing the wheel arches. It was much easier this time, I have bought a nice new Sealey Schutz sprayer and turned the air pressure down (plus warmed the underseal in the oven) on the regulator. The one I used the other day wouldn't switch off properly so I got a bit of spatter.

On to de-rusting. Anyone used a needle-gun ? Great for holes and tight spaces. I didn't want to split the hub and disk just to clean it and this works very well. Once the hubs are dry, I will paint the non braking surfaces with HT paint

I stripped the axle completely and have cleaned up some of the bits. The backplates were quite rusty, but only deep pitting and surface rust, they have cleaned up nicely. The axle is fiddly and took a while - the identity plate is quite tarnished, but with a bit of cleaning and a magnifying glass it was eventually possible to read and record the number

Can anyone take a photo of a decent i/d plate so I can repaint it correctly please ??

The springs and other brake shoe bits have been derusted and sprayed with WD 40 ready for re-assembly

All in all , coming on

What's the blue colour on the brakes? Rust stabiliser?  Great work as usual. All those pristine painted parts look like a 1:1 scale Tamiya kit.

I like seeing the rug in the background.

Where is the identity plate located on the axle? I can't see it in the other photos. It was only recently in another thread that I discovered there are identity plates located there.

you might be referring to this post on Dec 10:
Whilst cleaning and tidying up at the back end of the 1600HF I noticed a well worn alloy plate, with just decipherable stampings:
818.630 and (I think) 018400, the latter presumably the production number

On the front face of the casing, r/h side is the same 818.630, and a longer number, maybe the part number, 2273702

Its on the rear of the offside of the casing, towards the hub/disc assy

Stan, the blue is as you say, a rust converter. I have taken care not to get it on any pad surfaces - I will scotchbrite and acetone those areas anyway. I will paint the rest with high temp paint to make it look prettier

As you identified, the plate is on the rear, RHS of the axle. The markings on mine are "820210019663". The axle ends are the (nearly - LHS vs RHS ??) same as you can see

Still hoping that someone can post a picture of an undamaged plate , please ?

The axle has been painted and is in the warm to help it dry fully

Re rug, I like having them because if you are in the garage all day, it is less tiring ......

That's a hell of a fork rest.

I guess the aim is to make it good enough to eat your dinner off ....
....and the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.
Anyhow, good progress!

Girls must be away....

Actually Juliet helped carry it in !

Just finished a tractor service - these filters should be available for the HF......

Nice and "warm" today, so the spring leaves were painted outside, nearly ready to start putting it all back together

I'm surprised those 'HiFi' filters don't fit - the one for my 1300 is also listed for Allis Chalmers. They make those enormous earthmovers.

Losing your strenght? Can you remember lugging and Aurelia front axle about? Oh yes you must have done for the forgonecino....

When you said "painting spring leaves" I initially thought you meant on the vines with, fungicide or something. It sounded an enormous job!

Tim - J helped by opening the door and saying "you can't bring THAT in here"

Frank , bit early for leaves ,even down here . No buds so I can drag the cuttings out of the vines with this great toy.

I will check and see if HiFi make Fulvia filters, you never know !

Found a couple of pictures for the axle plate, just need to work out how to recreate it .....

Easy peasy I would think.

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Nameplate-Gearbox-Shield-Lancia-id-plate-Fulvia-Flavia-Aurelia-Flaminia-S28/272785580620?hash=item3f8349a24c:g:D0UAAOSwNE5YW-fb

Excellent - thank you , except he doesn't post to France

So , now the question - to replace , or restore ??

Just send him an email and ask if he'll post to France. Most eBay sellers will do it rather than lose a sale! Other than that, find a German club member willing to receive it and post it on to you?
Guy

Simon,
It costs €3.90 to post to Ireland......... :-\
 
Tim

Still undecided if I am going to tart mine up ..... but will contact them re post to France, but if not "a long-way round" could be an option !

Raining here so a day in the garage, well sort of, morning spent running round buying paint, phosphoric acid, brushes, acetone etc etc. Afternoon spent getting bits together , so nearly there.

Collating everything on a bench at the back of the car and finishing off some painting. Disks and shoes painted in HT paint and cured in the garage-oven (small oven that was going to the tip but was saved and put to good use !)

Simon, as I'm shortly to start on my own rear suspension can you clarify the way you would prep and finish something like, for example, the rear axle.  I've seen your references to rust preventer, and to the use of scotchbrite and acetone.  It would be very useful to know the sequence of steps you go through, and the materials you use (cleaner, rust remover, rust preventer, paint etc).
Norm

I'm thinking the Appia consortium has some of those plates...
Clarkey

Thanks Jim, any chance you can have a look ?

Norm, a brief list of steps (do ask for more detail if req.) but usually as follows:

• Remove as large a bit as possible (axle/subframe etc)
  Roughly de-grease - I use either a "swarfega" degreaser or "no-nonsense" from Screwfix, brush it on and leave for a while
  Pressure wash it all
  Take it to bits - as many bits as possible
  Bit at a time - remove loose rust with a wire brush and then either strip to shiny metal with a roloc tool and disks or soak in phosphoric acid (approx 30% conc) for 2 hrs to 2 days depending on the rustiness. This stuff is amazing , but takes time and does strip cadmium coatings etc
  Then for pitted bits, I tend to use a rust converter (again acid based ), primer and then topcoat - usually acrylic because it dries quickly
  For shiny bits, degrease with acetone then etch primer and top coat
  Aluminium/brass I use scotchbrite (works well soaked in white spirit on alloy castings !)
  I use a lot of scothbrite because I usually go over everything that is going to get a coat of paint
  For some metal bits I use an acrylic lacquer to protect the cleaned "patrina"
  I also use a very good brush on high temp paint from Halfords for brake parts and exhausts
  
  For the axle , I used an oil based paint with anti-rust agents (not Hammerite which I think has gone down hill)  because I felt that this is something that will get abuse so wanted a more elastic, tougher finish
  

It is difficult to be exact and I'm always discovering and trying new approaches and products, but I try and use things that can be easily touched up because the always get chipped or scraped when you are putting it all back together. I would love to powdercoat everything but it isn't practical for me

Hope it's not too vague !

Finished cleaning and painting the rest of the bits and silentblocs fitted in the second spring - they needed a good chamfer to ease fitting.

Springs on, axle on and passenger side handbrake, backplate etc done - few detail shots .... the brake parts were all cleaned and then lacquered so they shouldn't rust again (??)

Most difficult job was refitting the Panhard rod, it needed a very sturdy brace across the car to line it up. All the silentblocs are loose until the correct ride height is attained and then they will be tightened.

Sorry about the paint runs, they will be dealt with as part of a general touch up when it is all back together !

New handbrake cable fitted because there was a broken strand on one side

Many thanks for the "step-by-step" Simon.  Invaluable for novices like me!
 

Norm, if I may add my two pennyworth; once as much rust as possible has been removed by abrasive means I use Kurust as a converter but I make sure it's the one you can paint over rather than the sort you have to wash off. It goes against the grain to rust convert steel then chuck water on it to wash the chemicals off. If I am brush painting suspension parts I then prime with red lead or grey zinc rust proof primer and finish with black smooth hammerite (I think I'm less particular than Simon). I did these Y10 drive shafts several years ago and they still look fine.

Great.  Thanks Frank.  More grist fr the mill.

I am currently repairing the front wings where I filled the gap between inner and outer with Builders' foam - fine where it remained attached but a disaster where it didn't.   How big a gap will Sikaflex fill, Simon?

David, in this months Classic Cars, Omicron restore a Flaminia  and mention the use of closed cell foam to separate the tubular frame from outer aluminium panels.


P

David
I cut the nozzle down to give a bigger bead and I have filled a gap up to approx 1/2" but not gone beyond that - shame we can't get DumDum any more .

Hi Simon,
As you know i worked for Vauxhall Motors  for 24 years, one of the perks was being able to buy surplus materials from time to time, one of my better buys was a roll of Dum Dum,that 50 years on is still pliable.
 I do very little with cars these days so only need to keep a little for future use .
So, would you like it?.
Hope you are both well.

Brian

yes please ! I'll drop you a line

I wonder if this is spray or sheet?     Not exposed to salty spray anway so a somewhat different situation?  The problem on mine was water getting in behind the foam.

IMHO there is not place for Foam to seal between the body and the chassis. I removed all mine from my 1600 Sport (and some conveyor belt that a previous restorer had bunged in between the gap and seam welded the body onto the chassis (well I didnt do it but my metal man did).

Saw the article today.  "Tips" include hot zinc spray (not dipping as the heat can cause distortion), and gas welding ali not TIG so the material stays malleable. 

A google on zinc spray gave this:

https://www.johndesmond.com/blog/environment/the-hot-zinc-spraying-process/

...and closed cell foam:

https://www.efoam.co.uk/closed-cell-polyethylene-foam.php?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkJHAqIW_2QIVBLXtCh0D4AoIEAAYASAAEgJIfvD_BwE

Which is what I used in "my" Aurelia (Simon's before me, Jason and Louise Kennedy now).  I stuck something like three quarter inch foam onto heavy ribbed rubber mats.  They were tough and practical and absorbed a lot of noise on the road, but were quick and easy to remove for track events.

https://www.efoam.co.uk/acoustic-soundproofing-foam.php?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkLjgxYW_2QIV7bvtCh1viwOWEAAYAyAAEgIsAPD_BwE

Tim Burrett drove the car testing various bits of work and rather liked the sound deadening, Jane Burrett all the more so.

Combination of vineyards and skiing has not given me much time in the garage recently - The snow conditions in the Dolomites were superb though !

Anyway , back to reality and it is raining so "Garage Time"

Both hubs and handbrakes finished so that I could put the wheels on and lower the car back to the floor. I left pretty much everything loose so that once she was down I gave it all a good wriggle and bounce so that things could seat correctly and line up again. The Panhard rod was difficult to fit , but this seems better now.

Next was to preload the rear springs before tightening up the hangers/silent blocks and Panhard rod. I put a couple of planks across the boot floor, added 3 cinder blocks then filled a large box with various bits of engine until the required height was achieved. Then everything was tightened - I had forgotten how much I hate crawling around on the floor !

Dampers were fitted along with calipers - I made new brake pipes as well and fitted new pads.

Last job was to fit the new exhaust. Just needs some new clamps which I will pick up tomorrow

Next jobs are to refit the tank, rear lights etc. These will all be coming off again later in the year when she gets her new paint, so only need a minor fettle

ps sorry for the poor quality photos, I am back to my iPhone 4 , long story so I won't bore you with the details ....

Looking very nice indeed. Are the shocks new? If so, what make did you go with?

Last week I fitted new batteries to an iphone 4 and a 5.  Very easy, kit from EBay for a few pounds.   How much do Apple charge???

Thanks Stan, I went with original De Carbons

David, likewise, I changed the battery in my iPhone 4 and interestingly in the mountains last week (-25°C) it was the only one of 5 much more recent smartphones that lasted a day without charging ..... progress ?

I said that I would never buy another Fulvia ........ and now I have 3 (yes three !)

I was scanning the 'net on Thursday looking for some bits for the HF and spotted an ad for a pair of Fulvia Rallye S's about 30 mins away. I spoke to the owner, who'd already had a lot of interest, but no-one had come to look, so on Saturday Tim Heath and I went on tour.

To cut a long story short, and not necessarily taking Tim's advice (!) , I agreed to buy them and they were delivered today - he NEEDED the space

Bottom line - 2 Rallye S's, one has had a major underbonnet fire and is a write-off and the other is remarkably sound. The write-off still has 2 perfect aluminium doors and boot lid and a lot of other nice bits from the "A" post back. The white one is a late "S" and has steel panels that are not rusty (bit of tat on the bonnet front edge) and fit beautifully. Floors, cills, rear panel and subframe mounts are all excellent. It will need some work, but not a huge amount.

Obviously, both cars have spent most of their life down south, so the downside to the lack of significant rust is that all the seats on both cars are beyond saving.

With the cars came a huge box of bits, so it should be possible to complete the white car and have some nice bits for the HF. Still mulling over what to do with it all, but it was too good to let pass !

The bronze car has some interesting wings/wheel arch flares ......

The bronze car is almost certainly going to be broken up, it is beyond salvation. If anyone wants the flared wings or a new roof , drop me a line to discuss !

Although I am not sure J appreciated her Mother's Day present !

All I can say is the Devil finds work for idle hands... ;D

I don't think I would have been able to resist these 2 cars....assuming a reasonable price. One rises to the challenge doesn't one?
The early car look to be a very good prospect - what sort of state is the engine in I wonder?
Chris

PS If things go right ( or wrong maybe depending upon your viewpoint!!!) I might soon be starting a new thread entitled " I said I would never buy another Fulvia Sedan.....".

This is one of those "good to see they are still out there" moments.

What a great find and so close. Does your current 1600 have ally doors etc. Can't remember if they went back to steel by then. Be a good swap to do at this stage if not. I was lucky enough to collect all four ally panels for mine when things were still plentiful and cheap. Makes such a difference shed of all that weight, especially to a 1300. You certainly have plenty of spares anyway. The white one could be a lovely little car.

Stan, 1600HF's steel out of the factory like all Series 2. Like you I was lucky to source ally panels for my S2(1600HF) so maybe I should call mine leggera too!

Tim, I went nuts and had plexi windows put in too!

Interesting purchases, do they have front subframes?  I wonder of the ally fire damaged bonnet is repairable with a new piece fitted if not too distorted.

Ha! If you called yours superleggera, I could get away with it.....

Simon - if your going to bring the white one back to life you must swap that lovely wing mirror over from the bronze one.

Nearly finished stripping the bronze car - it isn't just raining , we had the most amazing thunder and lightening display last night , then 2" of hail ! So still can't get into the vines to finish pruning

As you say , David, it is good to see that these surprises still turn up, however I am still waiting for my barnfind-Bugatti .....

If any of you Fulvia-istas are looking to make a supersuperleggera (or super leg-over as my mum used to call the Flaminia) then the ally bonnet will be perfect.

Neil, I think the bonnet is beyond repair, it is buckled and the frame has gone as well , but if anyone wants to try, you can have it for the cost of the postage. There was only one subframe but it is not rusty and still has the top drain holes. I refitted the subframe to the white one today so it can be moved around easily

Re parts, current thinking is to use the doors and bootlid on the HF along with much of the chrome/stainless trim because it is better than the HF's. The door handles on the bronze car are not pitted and have some nice wear on them so they will be used instead of the new repro ones I bought earlier. The wing mirror needs a new reflector but will go to the white one

The bronze car really is beyond reasonable repair (although Norm may think otherwise !!) the back end is excellent, but the floors , cills and subframe mounts are rotten. It looks as if it was parked pointing downhill with the boot undercover. Tomorrow I am going to paint-strip one of the wheel arches to see if they are original, because they have been very well done if they aren't

ps More Fulvia berlinas, Chris ?

The bronze car is what I call a "parts mine". It's often the best way of getting a load of useful spares.

It looks like you've made a good acquisition Simon.

Ref your comment "The bronze car really is beyond reasonable repair (although Norm may think otherwise !!) the back end is excellent, but the floors , cills and subframe mounts are rotten.", I think my welder could have both cars back on the road in no time.

Seriously though, I do lie awake at night sometimes thinking how much easier (and cheaper) it would have been to buy one of the many rust-free imports from Italy that are now on the market!  However, a big thing for me was achieving a lifelong ambition to rebuild/restore a car doing as much of the work as possible myself - and it's good to be keeping a right hand drive UK-spec car from the breaker's yard!

 

On the next update of Google Earth your Fulvia farm will be visible from space.

The Google Earth satellite won't see much now, the white one is on 4 wheels again and has been tucked away and the bronze one has, I'm afraid, gone the way of the crow road. The middle of the car was a lot worse than I had anticipated, but it will provide lots of bits for the white one (and the HF)

If anyone has a set of black front seats for the Rallye S , I would be interested !!!

To the HF, it is back up and running. I did the final few bits and pieces and took her for a blast - gently at first

The wiring was cleaned of all its overspray and underseal and refitted using new loom clips, purchased at huge cost in Italy. All the earths, bulbs and light units were carefully cleaned along with finding and fitting bootlid bumpstops and boot lightswitch. A newish petrol tank sender was sourced and the petrol tank cleaned and flushed with WD40.

I used a closed foam seal under the petrol tank lip instead of the original dumdum putty, made an underlay and cleaned and fitted the boot rubber. The Autoglym bumper cleaner is brilliant for all things rubber and vinyl. I used it on the spare-wheel cover as well as it has a mild solvent for cleaning.

The spare-wheel cover has a nice detail - an embossed Lancia badge in the middle. It all looks nice when it's back together

I have not gone mad cleaning the paintwork because it is all coming off in the future, but I have cleaned all the chrome and stainless steel before refitting.

I bought a new , beautifully reproduced stainless steel number plate surround from Jai Sharma. It came with the separate corners and correct Phillips set screws and fits perfectly - would recommend !

The number plate lights are quite pitted so I am on the lookout for some better ones and the rear trim is not perfect so will fit a better one once the bodywork has been done

Happy with the ride height and the way it all feels, the knock has gone and the exhaust note is much nicer with the new system, but it needs a slight fettle now it has settled in because it knocks on the rear skirt on big bumps

Now need to use her again and resist the temptation to remove the front subframe ......

More .....

Looking terrific. Have you decided what colour it will be (since the repaint sounds like a definite plan)? Excuse me if I missed this earlier in the thread.

I will soon be trying to revive the original 1950 ribbed black rubber mats that came in the B10. Would you recommend the Autoglym product for this, and if so, is it their 'Bumper & Trim Gel'? I know some people swear by 'Son of a Gun!', but would love to know your favourite way of dealing with tired and dry-looking old rubber.

Hi William
I have never tried (or heard of) Son of a Gun, so can't comment !

I use Autoglym products because I find they work - I should get a commission for the amount I use !! But for cleaning rubber mats I use a variety of first steps depending on the initial state - a degreaser if necessary, often with a jet washer if they are not torn , interior cleaner or vinyl/rubber care for finer stuff , and usually finish with the bumper care. It seems to revitalise and nourish the rubber. Once it is dry you can buff it to a satin finish as well

I am sure there are lots of other favourite "recipes" but I stick with one range of products because I think that there is less likely to be interaction - I may be wrong ......

William I have son of a gun in my cupboard having been introduced to it by Brian Cates who retrimmed my HF seats some 10 years ago and delivered them to me with the head rests looking like new. I said (in my niavity) that I did not want the headrests recovered. They he told it was only SoaG which was new to me...
I am also a fan of Autoglym. I suspect that all their different vinyl/rubber products are much the same with different fragrances. I spent Thursday sorting out my B12 mats (original!). I used a rag with thinners to wipe clean and smooth the surface of the old mats then applied Autoglym tyre dressing. I am well pleased with results.

Looking great Simon BTW!

The car is looking good Simon!  Would you mind elaborating on a couple of things please.  What exactly is the “closed foam seal” that you used on the fuel tank surround?  Is it in sheet form and you cut it to fit?   Also, can you expand on the petrol tank cleaning and flushing.  Did you just pour WD40 in and slosh it around or was there a step before that.  I’ve read about people using pebbles or even bicycle chains to remove loose rust and then coating the interior with a product that is not affected by ethanol.  Was yours judged to be in good enough condition to not need these steps? 

Finally, your advice on treatment of rubber is most useful as I have a pile of rubber parts to clean up.  Have you ever had to repair tears/rips in rubber parts like mats?  I have a full set of rubber floor mats for my Fulvia which are in good condition overall but have tears in some places.  I was wondering whether to use thin rubber sheet patches glued underneath to repair them.  I’d need to find a suitable adhesive. I recall the little tubes supplied with bicycle tyre puncture repair kits being very effective on rubber inner tubes.  Have you ever used any particular adhesives for this purpose (car parts that is, not bicycle tyres!)?

This stuff?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/STP-GST97211EN-300ml-Son-Protectant/dp/B0046BZ79I

that stuff yes

Am sure will be gorgeous in its original colour but I must say I do like it in that blue...

Any close ups of the loom clips?

That spare rather fills the boot !!!   Am guessing the cover is an HF part to fit that size tyre.  Great to still have items like that on a car this age.

As requested , David ! The new , repro clips are made of soft rubber and can be removed easily without damage, whereas the originals are a harder plastic hat is difficult to remove without breaking or mashing up

Re tears in rubber, I have used superglue successfully on the furgoncino. A smear along the tear and then taping together until it is fully set.
I have glued a rubber back onto my Aprilia floor rubbers as well, but still protect the brittle rubber with carpets. The rubbers I have had most difficulty with are the Fulvia cill covers. If you put a backing on they are too thick and black tape (glued as well) still leaves an edge that you catch. I will replace mine with new I think
 
Happy Easter everyone

And now to anorak's corner , literally watching paint dry ......

I wanted to get a nice S1 rocker cover painted up, so here are the steps:

Bead-blasted rocker cover (not by me)
No further prep, but kept dust free and no oily fingers`
3 heavy coats of VHT wrinkle black - 5 mins apart - initial gloss shine
20 mins later - wrinkling starts
1 day later
After oven curing in the oven for an hour at 100°C and finally a close up

Curing causes the wrinkles to subside a little

I have always like crackle-black finishes and find this product very easy to use so long as you follow the instructions .....

Wonderful finish. Which brand? Will you be detailing the logo?

Richard, it is made by VHT and I buy it from Frosts, but I'm sure that there are other suppliers

Re logo, personally I don't like it polished , but it would be easy to do

Originals were not polished....

I really like all the finishes it went through - the bead blasted, the high gloss black and the crackle. Lucky you have so many Fulvias - you could have a different finish on each. You've got a very nice finish there. I did mine about 20 years ago, heated it in the oven, then a couple of coats then back in the oven. It's a finer crackle than yours but has lasted very well with a few chips here and there. Not original, but I sanded the Lancia lettering back to metal.

Sorry Norm, missed this ! - The foam strip is a pre-formed , self adhesive strip that I buy in rolls and is very cheap

Re Tank prep, it is a bit of a dark art and everyone has their own preferred way. I gauge the state of the tank and then adopt various approaches. If it is bad , it gets the small stones and full slosh-tank treatment. If it is basically sound, I hoover out any loose (after tapping with a hammer) and then swill it around with diesel or , in this case WD40. I reckon it gets into any seams and surfaces and helps eliminate rust .... probably wrong but I sleep better

Bottom line is to fit a discreet inline filter and change it regularly

Thanks for that information Simon.  Much appreciated.

I have not yet tackled a petrol tank, but I was amused to see on a restoration blog (I'm sure it wasn't on here, but it might have been) a tank strapped to the front of the drum of a concrete mixer!!! That would definitely save a lot of arm ache. There was no mention as to what it was that was rattling around in the tank!!!!

Andy

I like the cement mixer idea .....

The engine on the HF moves a bit too much so I need to replace the mounting rubbers and the central mounting fork on the gearbox/engine

It is a bit of a pain to get to so I have dismantled the top of the engine bay and plan to clean it up a bit at the same time. Not planning to go mad just yet, that will happen when the subframe comes off

First job was to remove the ancilliaries and then degrease and "karcher" it. Will start painting the bits tomorrow and will probably rebuild the carbs whilst they are off

Quite a lot of the original colour visible .....

When you see it like that you realise the angle of the engine is quite dramatic.

May I offer a serious word of warning about hovering and petrol tanks. Most vacuum cleaners (not all) use the ingested air to cool the motor which, being electric, is prone to occasional sparks. If there are any petrol fumes being sucked up you can create a quite effective bomb! Cylinder vacuum cleaners tend to fire their innards out the back like a bazooka.

Thanks for the warning - I will be more careful in the future, but it is a very effective way of getting the dust out !

I have an 18v dewalt that I use, but maybe that is just as prone to the issue

Looks like the car may have been red in the past from the under bonnet shots.

When the top corner of my Fulvia tank rotted through I was told by specialists it would have to be filled with inert gas etc. A neighbour who builds his own motorsport engines and competition cars offered to repair it. I mentioned the inert gas conversation and he replied 'No, I'll just leave it upside down outside for a couple of weeks'. There were no explosions in the village following this and he presented me with a beautifully repaired tank even having recreated the ribbing on the top. I do remember years ago a Classic and Sportscar journalist who should have known better decided a good way to defume his tank would be to wave a blow torch over the filler opening to 'burn the fumes off'. I think he more or less destroyed his garden shed.

Simon
I am a little surprised at the apparent surface rust etc in the engine bay. Looking back there is a photo of the brake servo which appears to be black. Was the engine bay painted with underbody seal or similar? And if so why? Also there appears to be very little original red paint showing. Not criticizing - just curious.
Chris

The old school method was to run a pipe from the exhaust into the tank and run the engine for a while ... I have never tried this for two reasons. 1)  no-one ever defined exactly how long a while is and 2) I am a coward!!!

                                               Andy

Thanks for the interest - the car was originally Rosso York and I have been deliberating about returning to this colour - there are very few of them and they look great, especially when you keep the bumpers (IMHO).

Over time I have come to like the metallic blue , so it isn't a foregone conclusion !

However, I suspect that when the car was turned blue, the easiest thing to do was spray all the underbody bits black so it looked OK. This was done many years ago when HF's were less valuable and less thought was taken,  or less cost could be justified.

Now we are all into "originality" - and I am one of those seeking it - I want to undo or restore some of these previous changes.

On top of that , this HF was stored in a container for 10 years so there is a lot of superficial rust on un/poorly protected surfaces - so there is quite a lot to do in order to get it right. One part of me wants to take it to pieces (every last nut and bolt) and another wants to use it it until Dog has time to paint it properly

The "sort the basics and drive it" side is winning at the moment .....

Rosso York or white are my favourite colours for S2 1.6 HF Fulvia although your blue one looks rather nice. Thanks for the explanation - I wasn't being rude as I am sure you realise -  but I couldn't quite understand how the outer skin of the car looked so good in comparison to the underbonnet bodywork areas. If it was in a container for some time I think you are very fortunate that the outer paintwork and body hasn't apparently suffered.
As to whether to completely dismantle the car that of course is up to you. My view is that I don't like over restored or perfect cars - after all cars are designed to be driven regularly and therefore by definition wont ever be 100% perfect.
I do however like to see all things mechanical looking clean and tidy , working well  and well maintained.....which is what you do so well. Keep up the good work and continue giving us a standard to work to.
Chris

You can have your cake and eat it. That blue is so pretty I would do the basics and enjoy it for a bit as it is. You can spend time getting all the mechanicals the way you want them then when it ceases to be presentable you do the nut and bolt job back to the original colour.

On the motorway today I was flicking though magazines in WHS.  In one of the Landrover titles they were stripping "repaint" off a car to reveal the original finish. Was that brave to attempt or just lazy not taking it all off?   They said "on a budget" and with the fashion being to show some chips and blemishes it did look quite good polished up...in the photos...for a Landrover...

The Rosso York colour I would like to keep.  Except not sure if its Burgundy or Red - see pic...

On the topic of "removing repaint", at Goodwood a few years ago I fell in love with an Alfa Romeo 8c 2900.  I wrote an article for the USA Alfa Romeo Owner's Club magazine about the car - entitled "The beauty of unrestored cars".  I contacted the owner, William Ainscough, who lives quite close to me in Lancashire regarding the paintwork on the car and he provided the following interesting information.   

"When I purchased the car the red paint was in poor condition, thankfully the Belgian owner must have done a cheap paint job at the time.  The red paint had flaked off in largish pieces on some areas of the body clearly showing the original grey beneath.
We took a decision to try and remove the remaining red paint by gently sanding it off. It took over 1000 man hours but we managed to salvage roughly 60% of the original grey.  The rest of the body was rubbed down to bare metal where there was no option and where there was full cohesion between the red paint and the original grey.  These areas of bare metal were then painted in grey to match the original areas to achieve the final finish.  Believe me this was a labour of love, it would have been far easier to have a simple respray!!  The rest of your article is very factual and I appreciate the interest you have in the car. Kind Regards, William Ainscough."

Apologies Simon for hijacking your post, but maybe you should "gently sand off" the blue paint from your HF!

SJ - Do you have more pictures of the car ?

With the HF, photos do flatter the car, and from a distance it looks great polished up. There are more than one or two blemishes though .....

I am still attacking the under-bonnet bits and have taken off the headlights, bumper etc. Once it had been cleared it enabled me to access and wire brush , then undercoat the inner wing and behind the headlights. I have also removed the loom with a view to cleaning and checking all that as well. It is not pretty at the moment !

nb the yellow rocker cover is not the correct colour - it is a spare to protect the engine whilst I paint mine

A couple of photos of the bits that have been cleaned up ready for refitting and the carbs as a reminder to me for the next job

Frost have a special offer of two tins of VHT crackle finish for £14.99 instead of £10.99 each. Available in Black, Blue ,Grey & Red.
Brian
8227 8)

Having taken inspiration from the 8c Alfa, I spent 1.5 hours cleaning up a sticker. It had been oversprayed with the black, gloopy paint. My dentist tools have been very useful for all the cleaning

The wiring has been unthreaded and bagged up under the sheet and the wiper motor has come out as well. First side is prepped and primed

Tidying up my heater duct and fan housing has been on my 'to do' list for years. If I keep looking at your photos it might force me. To be honest I can't remember the last time I used the fan (it's on a manual switch) so I could easily remove it for as long as I wanted. Although I've only ever seen photos of it, some of your garage shots are starting to remind me of Harry Manning's place.

I too like Rosso York - red but not the vlgar bright colour of Italian Racing Red!

Lancia racing colour was a dark red not unlike Rosso York.

Stan, the air box is very easy to remove, just remove the ribber bungs and use a long 10 mm extension ....

In between my day job and playing taxi for our daughter I have been doing a bit more under the bonnet. It has all been stripped, sanded and primed ready for Dog to come in and paint it- hopefully next week.

Interestingly, under the engine stay it has been painted rocker-cover yellow, I presume to identify the crankcase during factory build ???  It is here where the casting mark is denoting 1600, S2 etc 

It will be a bit bizarre having the under-bonnet nice new shiny rosso york and the rest blue, but hey-ho ! It means that I can get used to the original colour and if I hate it, I can paint over it again in blue if I decide to go that route instead, the hard work has already been done

A couple of fun pictures, I keep getting grief from french friends for the LMC badge on the Renault 4 , plus a photo in front of the trees that have been cut and collected after the fire

Thanks for the info on the airbox. I always thought it was more fiddly than that. Good to confirm you have actually got a 1600 engine. I remember a long time ago getting quite excited when I discovered the number on the front of my cylinder block was that of a 1300 HF. Then I discovered all 1300s have that number. That's a lot of trees! What's going to happen to them?

Hi Simon
Apologies for delay
Some more pics of Rosso York as requested
Am still a bit puzzled what shade it's actually supposed to be
I'm going to keep this one original, despite loving the Dark Metallic Blue of OMY80K
Cheers
Simon

That seems to have come out very brown.    Is it really that colour or is it some glitch in the processing of the image?

David - totally agree - I now think its a bit of a bodge of a colour its been re-sprayed with, it does look more brown than red
I'll take some pics outside this weekend (GNW)
BTW - Stanley - Harry Manning's place was nowhere near that tidy, there was no discernible floor when I visited, just 1000's bits of Lancia everywhere and Harry sitting there in front of a stove with his mug of Tea...

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/pYUAAOSwcSJa5gJM/s-l1600.jpg

But nevertheless Harry knew where everything was. I have just re-read the section on him in Lancia in Britain which brought a smile to my face.
Chris

Looks interesting but can't read the print ??? too low resolution?

Brian
8227 8)

David - thanks for that - take it its a pic of what Rosso York is supposed to look like - does look a bit like the Fulvia colour..
Chris - yes he did - he was very helpful and am so glad I made the trip (from Scotland)

One from my photo library - tagged as Rosso York

That's more like it.

That's quite a nice wine colour, Simon.

nthomas - thanks for that pic
The Fulvia in proper Rosso York is stunning
 

Rosso York is very difficult to capture in photos, as we have seen ! More so when it is incongruously shown next to to blue ....

Anyway, a few pictures:

First a photo of the inner wing where I found a large patch of original to help with referencing and matching.

Next , masking before the stone-chip. All the inner wings and non obvious bits were prepped and painted in stone-chip before the top coat was applied to it all., leaving the turret tops and chassis legs smooth and polished 

Then a couple of pictures showing the colour - redder in one, browner in the other - Once it is all done I will take a picture in natural light to show the "real" colour, but I think it is lovely and has made me decide on the final colour ..... Rosso York !!

Last picture shows the inner arch ready for underseal. Other side still to do

Spent quite a lot of time cleaning the wiring loom and undoing some of the previous mods, especially around the relays. At the moment there is a modern regulator fitted , so if anyone has a very good Ducellier (not Bosch !) regulator - yes please !

Apparently similar to a 2CV , so I should be able to find one of those ......

Plus a breakdown of the wiper mechanism before re-fitting. I found that the easiest way to put it back was with the black frame, pivots and connecting bar going in together and then adding the motor, mounts and other bits afterwards. Still a bit of a fiddle but no scratches

 

Simon - with the benefit of hindsight what do you think is the best way to REMOVE the wiper mechanism?  I've read about people removing the entire mechanism and motor by drawing it down so that the wiper pillars drop through the holes in the body.  I've also heard people say that can be very difficult.  Is it best to disconnect the arms first, and do those small "u" shaped clips just pull off with a good tug with a pair of pliers, or is a special tool required?

I'm not getting a lot of time in the "toy-shed" at the moment, but it is coming together slowly .....

Norm, wrt to removing the old wiper mechanism, if you are not worried about scratching the paint, I would take it out whole, just need to remove the rubber mountings under the motor. Once done it is a bit of a faff, but with a bit of flexing comes out

Engine bay back together with some of the ancilliaries reconditioned and new hoses (water and fuel) , clips and filters fitted.
There is a new distributor cap and a set of plug leads as well.

I have decided in the first instance to put the carbs back as they were. I have changed quite a few bits, including fitting an electric pump, new mechanical pump and pressure regulator/filter etc. so I will get her running again using the carb set up from before because I know that they are not far off, then after a few miles testing , will strip and rebuild the carbs. It only adds a bit of extra time to take them off again once everything is cleaned and greased

Talking filters, I cut the old inline filter in half to see how much crud it had picked up - quite a lot !  So I may temporarily put another in-line for a while until it is clear.

In order to get the new filter and electric pump fitted neatly and be able to remove the airbox without undoing anything else, I had to resite the horn compressor. You can see from the underbody photo the new mounting positions

Lastly a couple of engine shots showing it all together - obviously cutting out the blue bodywork !

It is a bit frustrating not doing everything to a 100% standard just now, but I am itching to be using the car again ......

I have managed a couple of afternoons this week so have stripped the other inner wheel arch ready for underseal and also stripped all the paint from the front valence and headlight supports

2 photos don't really cover the amount of time and effort it has taken !!

Fortunately no serious rust, just a bit of surface rust in places and lots of tatty paint, but all has come off with a heat gun, scrapers, sanders and anything else that helped get into all the corners

I seem to have missed these updates. Love that pristine wheel arch in shiny underseal. Engine bay looks great. The stripped valance and headlight panels look in very good condition. They  could pass for new panels.

Agreed and thanks for the updates and pics.  Its great to see all that you are doing because JLT is in much need of similar work
Back to Rosso York (sorry).  I have the codes for Lancia Rosso York however the colour looks exactly like a brand new Nissan in a very fetching (not the Nissan - just the colour..) wine-coloured Red (Cayenne Red)
Given that the body shop would be trying to match up a colour for the Fulvia from a code rather than, probably much easier, using a modern day colour, should I use a Nissan colour for the re-spray???

Attention to detail as always Simon, lovely workmanship, inspiring me to get my 1600HF out of storage and make a start, having purchased it in 2008! The car is increasing in value with time, but on the downside my time is decreasing with age!   :)

Paint colours - what a nightmare ! It is all very well having the codes, but if you can't get cellulose , are they valid ?

Options - spectro the colour from an original bit or choose something you like - not easy ! Dog matches from the original colour by eye, but the result can be seen differently by different people, especially when we paint using modern water based paints that give a different finish.

Anyway, what is beyond doubt is that my newly primed front is very different from the blue (or red !!). Talking to Dog about the best way to protect the newly stripped valance we decided that I should etch prime it and then lacquer it because that can easily be removed when we come to paint finally (next spring)

What is nice is that it is now in its raw state, no filler and complete with dings. I have also found the correct bonnet stops and fitted a new central stay

Not getting much time due to increased treatments and interventions caused by the uniquely wet spring - at least the grass is still green !

 

Been pottering today with a view to getting the car finished this weekend. The Land Rover has to go in for its belts to be changed next week and I need another car - Some people take the body off to do the belts !!

Oh for the simplicity of older cars ...

Anyway, bonnet has finally been stripped of its nasty underseal. It has taken a combination of solvents, scrapers and cloths to get it clean. A very dirty job. Not sure if it is quite good enough to keep as a final finish, but it needs to be cleaned up anyway if I decide to repaint the bonnet frame.

The bonnet front edge has been rubbed down and now needs to be preserved. There is no major rust, but it is a good job that I have caught it now. I have spent a lot of time getting the bonnet to fit better - finding and fitting the correct buffers, making spacers to get the rear edge to sit lower etc etc. There has been a lot of detail to do , but hopefully it means that when Dog gets to paint her, it will be a lot easier (and cheaper ...) when he gets to it.

The hockey-sticks have been carefully refitted along with the bumper. I had to strip and clean the indicators and mountings because one of the screws had been rounded off. Not that straight forward because you need to remove the unit. That in itself isn't that easy if any of the mounting nuts are seized and the bolt spins inside the rubber trim strip (which 2 were) then the screw was drilled out enabling the lens to be removed. Once done you can then replace the combined lens/frame mount -so long as you have a spare .....

The combined mount is like a long bolt with a tall hex that is threaded to take the lens screw - I thought that I had a photo , but apparently not, but if anyone is interested I will take another photo

The car will look a bit "harlequin" for a while, whilst I get everything to fit and work properly. The grill has been repaired and (metallic) repainted, headlight mounts cleaned and painted, new clips , screws and so on

I want to tidy up the wiring, repaint the elephants and refit the bonnet light, intake grill and front rubbers etc so she is ready to use

Plus the other wheel arch has been under-sealed ....

On my (modern) MGTF I find it easier to lift the car off the rear subframe/engine/gearbox to do any work on it!

Nearly finished , well this bit anyway.

A few details, lights fitted with new clips and stainless screws and I have found a set of the rubbers that fit behind the stainless rims

The bonnet now fits much better and the front edge has been taken back to bare metal and rust treated and the I injected "Dinitrol" liquid into the flange from both the back and the front (before fitting the trim)

The bonnet light and wiring were stripped and cleaned, with new side fitting, spade connectors fitted

Just need to connect up the headlights and fit the grill and wheels and then ready to go, which is good because I need to use her tomorrow !

Last bits finished and then I have been using the HF this week. The bonnet-lip rubbers have been refitted once the frames were cleaned and painted
 
Tuesday saw the arrival of a friend's Sport - a bit of moral support and also needs a few bits sorting out for its CT (MOT) - new drive shaft boots, sorting out the handbrake, new headlights and a few other details

The HF goes very well, still a bit of smoke, but I can live with that for a while ..... the main thing for me is that I don't like the feel of the brakes. The car stops and has passed its CT with flying colours but having driven my brother-in-law's car and also the red Sport, I just want them to be better !

So today I dismantled the master cylinder to have a look. There is some scoring and the surfaces are not as polished as I would like. I wonder if the hone-finish is not smooth enough. Tim Heath has also suggested that I check the intermediary piston to see if it is sticking, so I will do that once the new seals arrive from Omicron

I undid the large nut at the front before taking off the car because I thought it may be easier ....

In the meantime I have discovered a NOS "Lancia" master cylinder on my shelves, so I will fit that anyway. Plus I have taken the opportunity to replace the electrical tags on the top of the reservoir. The aluminium rivets had corroded and the connectors had fallen off, so drilled out and re-fitted with a stainless set screw

Everything has been cleaned up and now awaits the new seals

Having cleaned up the carb under-tray , I noticed that there is a leak from the bottom of one carb so I will re-build these whilst they are off (removed to give a bit more room !)

Been too busy to write anything up for a while, but it goes on when I have a few minutes .....

Master cylindre rebuilt with NOS body and new seals. The cyl had been put back together incorrectly, one seal was incorrectly fitted. Plus the front circuit had been crossed over so that the rear chamber was feeding one large and one small piston on the front calipers - should be rear chamber feeds rear brakes and 2 small front pistons , then the front chamber feeds the 2 larger front pistons

Because I couldn't undo the unions to the flexis to change them over, I ended up replacing all the rigid lines and fitted Goodrich-type flexis as well - so ended up being a bigger job than anticipated

In order to bleed the brakes on my own I rigged up a series of stepped down rubber hoses , connected to a compressor connector , then turned the pressure right down. The pushfit hose on the reservoir could quickly and easily be slipped off to top up the brake fluid

So now I have all new caliper seals, bleed nipples, brake lines, flexis , limiter, master cyl and she brakes very well. Still a touch too much travel on the pedal, but a final bleed should sort that out. My local testing station has said that I can put it on the rolling road to test it one evening.

The carbs have also been cleaned and rebuilt. A couple of years ago I bought an ultrasonic cleaner and it has done a great job.

I still have a bit of hesitation on constant speed running which I think may be down to the idle jet being a bit too small for current petrol (much has been written about this before) so I have ordered some 60's jets.

I have set the fuel pressure to 2psi as well - the filter king was pre-set at 1 psi

I have had a bit of vapourisation as well , but it is nearly 40° C here at the moment ......and looking at other threads I have wondered about fitting a second fuel return pipe from the front carb as well - any thoughts ??

The suspension is starting to settle nicely after the rear end was rebuilt, plus she sounds great and goes like stink !

(and if you squint , doesn't look too bad either)

Love the brake bleed system.

Carbs came up really well.  What liquid in the ultrasonic bath?

It must be reassuring to others that 40deg heat isn't a major issue, at least for the car.

'Carb cleaner' solvent works well in the tiny ultrasonic bath which I have for small parts. This £8 s/h bath is designed for jewellery, cds etc

I used a "no-nonsense" degreaser liquid from Screwfix , a fairly dilute solution

I have tried washing up liquid and dishwasher tabs as well but found this works well

PS forgot give a thank you to Lancialulu for help on the carbs and M/C !

Little while since I updated this one

The HF is now on French plates, taking a total of 9 months ..... used to take 9 days. Unfortunately because of the time taken and the loss of the dossier by the DOT (I even had a receipt that they had accepted it ) I had to redo my CT (MOT)

Not all bad because it gave a new test for my newly rebuilt master cyl and brake pipes

Anyway, nice new number plates .....

Secondly for a bit of "Sunday-Fun", I am just starting to build a spare HF engine to replace the original and I wanted to practice removing the crankshaft pilot bearing (correct name ??) at the back of the crank, but I don't have a removal tool, so used the following with a scrap crank:

10mm bolt
Piece of bread (mine was a French loaf, but sure it doesn't matter)
hammer

Very quick, easy and clean

I am sure that there are lots of other tricks like this, but I like this one !

That's brilliant! Be even more brilliant if I knew what was going on. What does the bread do? I think the Fulvia repair manual recommends ciabatta. The bread you've used is for a Citroen. Also how did you get away with your nice number plate frame being bolted on? I was told all number plates here have to rivetted. I remember when we were first here and re-registering the cars a friend was quite shocked that our UK plates were just screwed on.

Stan - the idea is to fill the space behind the bearing with bread and then compress it using the bolt. You tap the end of the bolt with a reasonably sized hammer and it pushes the bearing out. It is necessary to repack the bread a couple of times

Re rivets, you are absolutely correct, they don't like screwed on plates, but I've never (so far) been stopped. I have previously put false rivets in the plates so it looks correct whilst retaining the original setup

Grease will do the same job as the bread, and it doesn't have to be French or English grease, Any old grease will do👍
Brian
8227  8)

Just don't try bread in your grease gun ;)
Mike

That is ingenious. You would have made a good SOE agent. Stopped and found to be only carrying a baguette, then destroy a vital piece of equipment.

It really does work .... due to do the "proper" one tomorrow

As an aside, does anyone want to see the Fulvia engine rebuild ? I can post as I go along. Lots of people know about Fulvia engines so may not be that interesting !

The machining work has been done, so it is more about re-assembling

Please post the engine rebuild details. Should be of interest.

Yes please! Be great to see how it goes together.

Yes please Simon, as I've never actually had to work on a Fulvia engine.
Brian
8227  8)

Just noticed colour discussions.  Rosso York is almost exactly the same as Rosso Nearco which is a currently available colour and looks very nice on my Sport.

My Lancia Gamma is Rosso Nearco (orginal paint) and it is much brighter the York......

Perhaps it depends on who makes the paint!

Correct.... Mine was factory DuPont as stated on the paint label in the Gamma Boot lid! I have seen a slightly darker Rosso Nearco on another Gamma that had been repainted. Still no where near York IMHO.

As promised....

First job was to clean everything and then painted the block, oil pump, pulley etc. This always takes an age - at least 2 days and I haven't finished it all yet

Started with the crankcase. All the bits are shown in the 1st photo. I "plastigaged" the crank because I didn't do the machining and wanted to check it was correct. NB when fitting the crank, one of the thrust washers is shown incorrectly on the TAV, the grooves need to be facing out, not towards the bearing cap

1600 engines differ from 1300's at the bottom end - as well as larger crank journals, the crank is held in place with studs and not bolts. Otherwise everything is pretty similar

All the 1600 engines I have seen are painted yellow under the engine mounting - why ?? I repainted it anyway

All new gaskets , fitted with hermetite and new crank seals. I use the old ones to tap in the new ones.

The eagle-eyed amongst you will have noticed a flange on the rear oil seal, a "speedy-seal" has been fitted in the past.

Finally a couple of photos of the completed crank case , front and back. The front shows the oil pump on the RHS and the petrol pump mounting on the LHS, both driven off a gear on the front of the crank (nb photo shows it the wrong way round !)

Next flywheels .....

I have heard some people fasten the crankcase to the block before proceeding

You will have it running in the car tomorrow!

Numbers on conrods face exhaust side....

Thanks Tim - all in place.

A couple of photos from today:

Flywheels - I have 3 different weights, the standard 7kg a lightened 6kg and a paper doily that weighs a mere 3.2kgs. It's not intended to be a race engine so planning to fit the 6kg. I have heard that the super-light will not tick over below 1100 rpm

First jobs - cleaning the head-bolt threads on the block and gapping the piston rings
 
Ready to go .....

Once the block was fitted and torqued down I fitted the pistons and rods.

In order to torque down some of the block bolts, I used a crow's foot spanner on the torque-wrench. As "Bainsey" commented, these aren't always done correctly ! Without teaching grandmother to remove her teeth etc, you need to remember to fit the crow's foot at 90° to the torque-wrench axis otherwise the bolts get over tightened

NB. The "hidden" bolt on the block is longer on the 1600 because the block is thicker due to increased stroke on the HF

I have shown the 2 different timing chain tensioners, the 1600 have a longer "slipper" and longer chain 118 links vs 116 from memory

I did the same plastigage check on the big ends to be sure they were correct and then fitted the pistons.

Up until now I have always fitted the rings by hand, but these rings were quite strong (or I'm getting weaker !) so I invested in some Facom ring pliers (£30 ish) - it makes the job virtually risk free and very quick. Photo shows practise on old piston

Rings fitted at 120° to each other and I started with the oil ring gap towards the centre of the block because it is easier to get it fitted this way

Bigends re-fitted and torqued down (using 6 point/full hex socket) and will turn over by hand, so hopefully gaps are OK. Another small difference between the 1600 and 1300 engine is the HF big end bolts have 13mm heads instead of 12mm

May get a chance to start on the head tomorrow

This is interesting to see. I'll never be doing this myself but now I have the spanner at 90 degrees to the torque wrench lodged in my brain. Do the big end bolts need retorqueing after a certain period like the head or are they torqued up just the once?

No!

I'd never heard of it but I was thinking about the  forces involved. I once read about the forces created when a piston reaches the top of its stroke and is pulled down again. Can't remember the figures except that it was nuts (to use a technical term).

Bit more done today. Head fitted up with cams and rockers. This head has been skimmed and had big valves fitted along with guides etc, so it will be interesting to see what difference it makes.

If I can get the oil pipes remade I will fit an oil cooler. The oil filter casting is completely different to the standard (1.3 or 1.6) casting in order to take the additional pipes and radiator. I stripped the pressure relief valve and was glad I did because it was very gooey

The central tube was also very rusty (!) so I replaced it with a new one. I have several more if anyone else has the same problem

Lastly, I found a bit of under-bonnet bling in my spares .... I don't usually go for polished castings but why not. The ports have been polished as well - not too much, so should still get some swirl

Great work as always Simon. I am a little curious on the bore size as the block has 82.4 written on it and the pistons are 82.56. Has the block been bored twice? The capacity now is 1607cc according to that, yes?
Keep up the great work as it will be a good reference when I start my restoration.

Well spotted !

And I will be able to tell you later in the week because I felt the pistons were a bit tight - I could only fit a 0.05mm feeler gauge down the side, and after a chat with some of of our fellow "forumistes" I stripped it down again and will get it measured ACCURATELY and honed a touch

My verniers are just not good enough for this level of accuracy

The workshop manual quotes 0.075 - 0.095 mm for the 1600 engine

Whereas the 1300 302/303 engine is quoted at 0.055 - 0.075 mm, so quite a lot tighter

But, to answer your question,I assume it has been bored twice but I bought the block/pistons as they are , so can't be 100% sure !

How does a tube covered in oil go rusty? Bizarre. Why does the edge of the back cylinder in the shot showing the valves look a bit 'nibbled'? Will it cause any problems with the gasket?

Stan,
Moisture if the engine has been standing a long time?
Someone trying to prise the cam cover off by inserting a metal tool as gasket stuck?
Shouldn't cause a problem as on outside edge.
Brian
8227  8)

I'll take a photo of the tube later, but it was a mess, hence the strip down of the unit

Re head, I think that it must have had a plug melt or bit of piston rattle around in the chamber. Not so drastic as a snapped valve. But the damage is contained within the fire-ring so not too worried

Ref. piston/bore clearance, yes you definitely need to measure the bores with a bore micrometer to make sure the bores aren`t barrel shaped, and that they are all the same size, as it`s not a given that they are. Personally I would opt for the 0.095 clearance on the skirt as you may get hotter running in your climate, and you don`t want it "nipping" up, but you don`t need me telling you that. Keep up the good work.

Brian, some of my photos are a bit dodgy !

Been busy on the tractor this week, but managed to collect the honed block on Thursday morning , they did it very quickly and at a fair price (55 euros) so today I put it back together again

The pistons were a bit tight, I think that the previous machinist had used the "sp 0.04 " as the tolerance when they bored the block. Anyway, all set at 0.095-0.1 mm now. They are 82.56 pistons
I also fitted the timing chain and head then did the valve timing (several times !)

I have used new allen bolts for the head as many others do, just using the original pilot bolts to position the head before replacing them with allen bolts.
For non-Fulvia owners, the pilots are slightly larger diameter (approx 0.5mm) and are used to position the head and gasket more accurately before the other bolts are added. I have shown a one alongside a standard head bolt - you can see the shoulder near the threads

Fulvias were originally fitted with vernier-type camshafts, which gave a near infinite amount of adjustment enabling accurate setting , or indeed, personalised setting of overlap etc
You can just about see the different holes in the camwheel/camshaft in another dodgy photo. Later Fulvias (some S2 and S3, I think) had non adjustable, preset cams. Much easier to set up ....

If I get some time tomorrow I can finish off the oil cooler and other bits and bobs. I had new pipes made up locally. Surprisingly easy because we live in a farming community and there are a number of people who make up hydraulic and/or oil pipes

Use blutack for that protractor!

2nd time lucky .... the previous post disappeared, so forgive me if this comes up twice - I did mention "bottom" so maybe that was the cause

But, a bit of Sunday fun. Tim suggested that I test the thermostat in the oil cooler mount so I stripped it again and took some photos this time. Some detailed ones for David L !

If someone can tell me which is the inlet side and which the outlet, that would be helpful, plus I assume that the inlet pipe goes into the bottom of the oil rad and comes out of the top ?

I boiled up a pot of oil on my garage cooker so as not to upset Juliet and the thermostat worked perfectly. Not sure if the temp was absolutely correct because I wasn't allowed to use the jam thermometer

A second question - does anyone have a source of the studs that fit the inlet manifold and hold the rubber carb mountings. They are approx 28mm long, 10mm thread, 8mm blank and then 10mm thread - all M8 ??

Finally, as promised a picture of the old rusty pipe

Can't you use an infra red thermometer instead of having to borrow the jam thermometer?

That tube is incredible.  So that was fitted when you drove it back from the UK? Going back a few photos to adjusting valves etc - after you undo the locknut what tool is used to adjust the clearance? I would have imagined there would be a slot for a screwdriver in the top or a small nut shape. It seems to have just 2 flats. Do you still just use a spanner? I'm trying to find a very good article in an old VL about servicing a Fulvia. It explained adjustment very clearly but what does 'on the rock' mean? One day I might be brave enough to check mine.

Stan, "On the rock" means :-  when the piston is at Top Dead Centre on the Exhaust stroke ie after the plug has fired and the piston has gone down the cylinder on the firing (power) stroke and back up to the top again, the Exhaust valve will almost be closed and the Inlet valve is beginning to open. So with a spanner/socket on the crankshaft bolt,if you were to turn the engine backwards and then forwards the same amount at the TDC position, you would get the valves rocking (one closing/one opening) "on the rock"
Regarding the adjustment you can use a small spanner/adjustable on the 2 flats of the adjuster.

Simon, out of curiosity, when you timed up the cams did you leave the timing stock or did you advance the inlet cam a few degrees to take advantage of the bigger valves? With it breathing better you can sometimes gain a few BHP that way.

Regarding the oil cooler, normally the hot oil comes out of the engine, through the cooler and back into the entry of the filter so that the cooled oil is filtered before it goes back into the engine. That`s the way it`s done on a dry sump system so I don`t think it will be any different on a wet sump system.

Thanks for your comments

Frank, an IR thermometer is on my Christmas list 

Stan , I use a dinky little tool for the tappets that came from Harry many years ago. It is a 2 inch knurled disk with the tappet-adjuster shape cut into the central hole, so you set the gap with a feeler gauge, holding the tappet in place, then tighten the 10mm nut with a spanner - I'll show it in a photo tomorrow.

Re tappet tool, I think that Omicron have remade them ??

Re oil cooler, I agree with your oil flow suggestions, just wondering which banjo is the in and which is the out - being lazy really because I could probably work it out if I dig out the diagrams !

Another day attacking weeds in the vines so not much in the garage, but I did find a couple of spare manifolds and "reaped" the studs using the 2-nut technique. Refitted with loctite

Another question - should I just use the big-carb set up ?? - I have the manifold and a set of 45 Dellortos ......

Only joking , because to answer your question, I am staying with standard setup until I know that the engine runs as is. At some point in the future, I may want to change things, but for the moment keeping it pretty tame and using what I have

Here's a photo of the valve tool that I had (and sold a year ago). It really did make clearance setting a joy to do. Mine was supplied by Peter Gerrish, but I think it was made by Ken Couzins, as were a lot of Harry's special tools.

Thanks John for explaining 'on the rock'. I found the old VL article last night. It was written by Tanc Barratt and David Griffiths in the Jan 2007 issue. It went through a general Fulvia service.

Colin - I can see how that little tool would allow careful adjustment.

That is how you time a Lambda and an Aprilia.  Whatever happened to valve overlap?

There's been a discussion about this tool in the past year or so, which if I remember correctly is available from Omicron.
Brian
8227
 8)

I spoke to Andrew at Omicron and he said that they have had them remade and there is another batch underway because they are currently out of stock. About £10 (plus vat, postage) each

Thanks Simon, I'll place, an advance order.
Brian
8227  8)

David,
 not sure what you meant exactly but if you meant the period I described ie,when the exhaust valve hasn`t fully closed and the inlet valve is opening (they are both rocking and both open) that is valve overlap.

I have always understood it to mean that the inlet opens some time before the exhaust closes which stuffs more mixture into the cylinder, something that has been used in high performance engines for many years.       Open/close at the same time, which is what you seem to be describing is very conservative and not strictly overlap, or at least only a couple of degrees.   

David, I didn`t go into the actual overlap period, just that they are both open at the same time. But if you want specifics then the inlet valve opens at 28 degrees before TDC and the exhaust closes at 28 degrees after TDC, that is 56 degrees of overlap which is pretty good for a road engine (1600 Fulvia ). Obviously race engines can have more but it`s not just the overlap that gives more power, but cam profiles which determine speed and duration of opening and of course the amount of valve lift.

A few minutes today to do the timing (static) and finish and paint a few other bits

Nearly ready to go in

OIC.   Must be difficult to set without a timing wheel then.  Rather you than me.   I'll bear it in mind if ever I have to redo mine though.

The engine is finished and ready to fit , but I came across a bit of a "show-stopper", not drastic , the clutch plate and cover that I had for the engine is not correct !
New one should be here mid next week

I wonder if it's Flavia/2000 as it is about 1/2" bigger? If anyone can confirm and/or wants it , it is yours for £25 plus postage (marked as Valeo 215 DBR)

Just finishing off the oil cooler now

The block looks a very thin filling in that head/sump sandwich.  Only just noticed its green.

The green is a personal thing - and will match the plug leads .....

(I think that they were originally a boring light grey)

All the clutch parts arrived last week, so it is ready to go again. Just before I do the swap though, I will fit a new set of carbs that I rebuilt this week.

It will be good to set them up on a running engine then they can go onto the shelf as a known entity

Simon, great job as always. How did you remove the broken chain oiler eventually?

Re oiler, I bought a hollow 10mm drill on eBay - worked well !

Hi Simon, did you apply it using a compressor and gun? Or does it come in a spray can form?

Sorry, only just spotted this reply !

I use it from a can and attach a spry gun (schutz type) via compressor

Not the name of well known single by Britney Spears, but an ongoing inability to say "no"

I was seduced by Chris Gawne's Fulvia Berlina 1967 GT and collected her from Italy on Thursday.

I left Chris's place at 7.30 am on Thursday and arrived back here at about 7.30 pm that evening, a total of almost exactly 1000 kms

What a lovely motor car - just a delight to drive, not quick like an HF (!) but nippy up to 70mph and very happy with modern traffic. Once you get used to the low gearing and settle in to the buzzy little engine, it just keeps going.

On the motorways I kept to 4500 rpm, with overtaking up to 5000 rpm , so that means 70mph ish, with a bit more when you need it.

The suspension is fabulous, especially on poor surfaces and handling is lovely and chuckable.

Now she's back here , I need to clean the carb jets and fit another set of fuel filters, but that's it. The car hasn't been used much over the years and the mileage is very low - only 34,500 miles ...There is a very fine dust in the tank that may take a little time (and a supply of filters) to sort out

I probably won't do a separate thread for this one, because there isn't a lot to say but she is an excellent addition to the fleet and one that Mathilda already approves of - compared to the HF ,it's a lot more comfortable in the back !

Congratulations Simon,
Welcome to one of the best kept lancia secrets club!

And I'm not in the least surprised that Mathilda likes her,
I've just turned a lovely shade of green.
Brian.
8227  8)

Having cleaned the jets and changed the filters it was Controle Technique (MOT) this morning - all perfect , as expected !
They always have to put something on the form so today it was a dent on a subframe cross-member - I can live with that

Next job is to get all the paperwork together in order to get her registered in France before the end of the month , just in case the "B" word causes any unforeseen problems

Yes, appointment in Narbonne for a "Quitus Fiscal" on Monday piece of paper that lets me move onto the next step.... FIAT France should be supplying another piece of paper next week as well, so getting tight re timings

I had both berlinas out today, so a couple of photos showing what 5 years difference makes - obviously just the cosmetics, we could go into pages about other differences

They both look small against the Land Rover !

It seems anyone who drives a Berlina is always impressed.
The Coupe gets all the attention, but I suspect the Berlina is the better car.

I bought my coupe because I think it is beautiful, but don’t think I’ll ever get used to the bouncy ride.

Mark

I have said before you must have a rogue coupe.... I love mine and better than my Gamma coupe until I recently rebalanced all it wheels (the Gamma that is)

I know, it is frustrating. The ride quality is truly awful in my opinion.
I should sell it really, because we’re obviously not suited. I just can’t bring myself to part with it.
I love the steering, engine, lovely gearbox and the way everything is made. My coupe is also in completely original unrestored condition. It’s just a lovely thing.

Maybe there is a problem with it, but what?

The subframe mounts Have always felt too soft, allowing the whole power-train to move separately to the rest of the car. Hit a bump and you get a wobble through the whole car. Turn into a bend and there is a delay while where I am sitting catches up with the front of the car. At least that’s what it feels like.
To me the car feels much, much better when I fit solid spacers in the rear mounts instead of rubber. Yes I’ve done that.
Of course this does allow more NVH making the ride noisier. But overall the car is so much better without the rubber mounts there must be something up.
I quite like the car in short bursts but journeys more than 60 miles are just tedious.

Perhaps there is some vital welding, or metal work missing.

My Gamma, I love. I do a long journey in that and just want to turn around and do it again.

Oh yes and I have also taken out a leaf from the rear springs. This does make the car more comfortable, but messes up the handling.

Hi Mark, it does sound as if you should try a Berlina ..... I'm sure that Brian would be happy to take you for a ride in Fay, she is a lovely sorted car

I have a dilemma at the moment - I am trying to decide if I should remove the original plastic covers on the door panels. The only thing stopping me is that a car is only "original" once and if the covers come off, then they will never be the same again - but, they would look better uncovered !

Maybe I should find a second hand set and fit those instead ? (cream if anyone has a set)

Decisions , decisions !

Interestingly, the GT gets an awful lot of attention. I have been stopped many times with people commenting on her - more than the HF.  The Appia berlina gets a similar response to the GT, maybe they are more "accessible" ??

Last week I was in Narbonne and a lady crossed a pedestrian crossing in front of me and as I had stopped, she came over and said what a beautiful car it was - not something you expect to hear for a car designed by a 4 year old

So Mark - do try one !

Yes, I must have a ride in someone else’s Fulvia.
The thing about old cars, is they are all different.
I also like the challenge of understanding the engineering behind old cars.
The Fulvia in particular had some unique solutions so when being critical about the my coupe ride quality it’s only to spark a conversation about the cars, and find out others opinions.

I am now thinking it’s all about the subframe mounting, which is actually very clever.

I do need to start another thread for that though, having rather high jacked this one enough.

Isn't this why Lancias are so fascinating - it's certainly true of the Augusta. The challenge in the last few days for me has been to make the 6 special tools plus a large "g" clamp to dismantle the front suspension to cure a few leaks and generally inspect the workings. Keeps me busy.
Mike

Mike, slightly off subject, but do you have photos of the tools and dismantling of the Augusta suspension ?

As you may have seen elsewhere, I wrote "an Idiot's guide to Appia suspension" and have taken Aprilia units apart as well, so it would  be interesting to see how different an Augusta is ...

Maybe start a new thread ?

Simon,

The knowhow is all explained and illustrated in Morris Parry's superb Augusta Newletter with photos and drawings and detailed instructions. I'm just following these so no claim to originality on my part. However when I get the tools done, I've just the "G" clamp to finish, and actually use them I will post pictures.

I'll start a thread on my Augusta fettling as there are other things worth mentioning and no doubt others will teach me something. As a newcomer to Lancias I have a lot to learn!

Mike

Thanks Mike, Morris sent me the files

But back to Fulvias, or more generally old cars.

Years ago when you got a new car with new, plush carpets, you wanted to protect them and bought rubber mats. Now, I have made nice new, edged, wool carpets to protect my (original) rubber mats - ironic isn't it ?

Plus I fitted an iPhone charger, but I'll keep quiet about that one !

Finally Frenchified !

The berlina got its new registration and the number plates arrived yesterday. Without re-opening the "small number plate" discussion again I hadn't seen this fixing system before - there is a slot at the back of the surround that the (trimmed) plate fits into , before being drilled and screwed - neat !

Fitting the plates also allowed me to clean the inside of the rear panel. Other nice details are the covers that hide the panel, held on with knurled nuts - very Lancia - expensive and over the top !

I know that this is being discussed elsewhere at the moment, but I am fitting an electric fuel pump to the GT.

A bit of background; I have fitted a number of inline (in series) pumps for both Appias and Fulvias in the last couple of years, either Facet block or Facet black (rounded , plastic bodied type)
Always as priming pumps on a separate switch and either near the tank (as recommended by the manufacturer) or in the engine bay mounted on the lower, inner wheelarch

I have found that they make a huge difference to starting and for me give a back up if the mechanical pump fails. Obviously this is just my experience and agree that there are a number of ways of "skinning this particular cat"!

With a bit of extra time on my hands, I have finally decided to take the tank out and clean it thoroughly because ever since I bought the car I have been changing the inline filter on a regular basis, hoping that it would eventually clear. At the same time I have tidied up a few bits of wiring under the bonnet and repositioned the glass bowl filter. There was a funny aluminium block that originally held an SU pump at some time it its life, so I've re-used the holes for a new, simpler mount.

This time, I decided to fit the pump at the back of the car because there isn't enough room in the engine bay to fit it neatly (horns are in the way) - plus there is a convenient, well protected gap behind the rear wheel arch. The photo is not the finished article, the tank is still out so the pipes are not fully fitted

As always, I can't take one thing apart and not do other things - so I removed the brackets for the defunct mudflaps, blocked the holes with stainless bolts, wire brushed the wheelarches and gave it a coat of underseal (spray-type Shutz)

Hopefully I can finish putting it back together today, but I am waiting for new tank seals to arrive

Nice work Simon.
I think having an switched electric pump to prime and then back to the OE mechanical pump for running is the best permutation. The car came to me with 2 spare new sets of mudflaps which I think spoil the look of the car. Personal taste I suppose.
Chris

Front wheel arches done today and tank refitted

Couple of detail photos for David L ..... nice new captive nuts and new tank filter

The non-captive captive nuts were the most difficult part of the project because it is difficult to have a spanner on both ends when you are on your own !

 ;D

To finish this one off , couple of photos of it all back together

First, slightly surreal picture showing the setup at the back (and I hope the "bling" tank-ring doesn't offend too much) and then the second shows the filler pipe with cleaned up seals etc

Once connected up, it took less than 30 secs to refill the entire system - prime/pipes/filters/carbs etc - and then started immediately , so very happy with the result. Although I can't do a proper road test just yet for obvious reasons

Nothing wrong with a bling ring 🤣

Flavias the same.  Its a nice touch.