Fulvia steering.

[davidwheeler]

Well. gentlemen, much to think about and thank you very much.  I shall inspect the steering bits on my car with all the above in mind and hope to work some transformation.  My bad luck, I suppose, to have two bad Fulvias in that respect (though I have sold the 1300).  I shall report back in due course...

[lancialulu]

The Fulvia is still driving very well I suppose the idler box is in good shape, I was sorry I coulden't use the series 1 box and I diden't have enough time to service the series 2 box. I hate this happening as I opened the series 1 and it is in great shape but the series 2 is un-known. Time will tell . Thanks david.

My engine machinist found some Hyundi (?) cam shaft bearings that fitted the internal and external diameter to replace the grotty S2 plastic sleeve bearing. You can still get the bronze bearings (S1 but fit S2) from Cavalitto but these need machining down out and in. I did this on a S2 idler box that had had over 100000 miles so I doubt I will never see it wear. out....

[davidwheeler]

The tyres are 175/80x14 on nice alloy wheels that came off a 1300 coupe I once had so that would not help.  My Aprilia is on (hideously expensive) 155x14 Xs and feels very light except at low speed.    One Lambda is on 5.00x20 and feels lighter than the other which is on 6.50x22 (5.00x22 no longer available).  Power steering on the Fulvia would undoubtedly help!!

[JohnMillham]

The tyres are 175/80x14 on nice alloy wheels that came off a 1300 coupe I once had so that would not help.  My Aprilia is on (hideously expensive) 155x14 Xs and feels very light except at low speed.    One Lambda is on 5.00x20 and feels lighter than the other which is on 6.50x22 (5.00x22 no longer available).  Power steering on the Fulvia would undoubtedly help!!

When I drove Aprilias a lot, they were invariably on 165 x 400 Michelin Xs. They always felt about right, if a little heavy at parking speeds. I would think that 14" tyres ( and 155) would lower the gearing somewhat. 400s equate to about 15½, from memory. My Lambda is on 21" quite skinny Firestones and the steering is super. I use fatter ones on the back. The Augusta is on 140 x 40 Michelins and is heavier than I would like, so I've been playing around with the caster angle. Does anyone know what it should be? It also always wants to turn right and I'm darned if I can see why! Are the front springs of sliding pillar cars always the same "hand"?
Regards, John

[davidwheeler]

I have the feeling that we are on the wrong thread, John.  165x400 is the correct size for 2nd series wheels but the first series are 140x40 and I am not sure if they should not be cross ply - did not radial tyres come in after the war?   155x400 certainly fit 1st series wheels better as the rims are narrower.  Mistype, I meant to say 155x400 fitted.  As far as your Gussie is concerned, remembering my experiences with Sheila's front suspension, (see thread on Lambda forum)  I suspect your front suspension is bent to a parallelogram or at least one pillar is out of true.   Lambda sliding pillars should be vertical in all directions as well as parallel, the stub axle determines the castor angle.  And yes, the coil springs are the same hand in both Lambdas and Aprilias so I guess Gussies follow suit.

Arcane information for you Fulvisti but it is all Lancia!

[chriswgawne]

When I read David's original post criticizing Fulvia steering, I had difficulty understanding his comments as every Fulvia we have ever owned and driven (approx 15 I would say of all variants and Series since the 60's) has had impeccable, light steering with good feel and little tugging when accelerating round a bend. And certainly better than any other front wheel drive car of that vintage. The various 1600HFs we owned had heavier steering when parking but the 1600 Sport we had on standard suspension but wide 6" x 14" Carmona Ghibli wheels and 1600HF XAS tyres was perfectly OK. We both drove that car extensively  in the 70's (and I wonder whether it still exists  - LYX191K I recall).
I have suggested to David on the '3 Zagatos for sale' thread that his problem might be associated with the fact that his lovely Fulvia Sport is on Cromodora wheels - not sure whether they are Fulvia or 2000 wheels.
Anyway the point of this post is that Jacky's current Fulvia Sport - S1 aluminium body -  has ultra light steering and is a pleasure to drive at speed or parking. But this car is on  5.5" x 13" FPS magnesium alloy wheels (all 5 in perfect condition at 45 years old) which were fitted to the car by the first owner when new in Italy in the 60's. We were the 2nd owners when we rescued the car from a scrapyard for the wheels in the early 80's and then in the early 90's we sold it due to lack of use and then repurchased it about 6 years ago because it had been such a nice car to drive.The tyres we are using are 165HR13 XAS on the front and 175HR13 XAS on the rear and I fitted these way back because I happened to have them for some reason. Slightly illogical I know but the body is wider at the rear than the front so the car looks better this way round.
The point is that wider tyres do not necessarily make the steering uncomfortably heavy when parking or at any other time so maybe this problem is related to steering box or ball joint issues?
Chris

[peterbaker]

I competed on a recent winter rally to Monte Carlo using skinny snow tyres on the HF. amazingly light and the car was a delight to throw around the snowy Alps. I think the wide tyres and rims were homologated more for dry conditions and track use.

[Scott]

I have a 1300 coupé on standard steel wheels (currently running 165x80 R14 Falken tyres). I have always considered the steering very heavy at parking speeds but assumed this was normal as, like other posters note, it lightens up once on the move.

Of course what is 'light' and 'heavy' can be subjective especially if used to a modern car with power steering and jumping from this to a Fulvia!

Knowing there's going to be a big meet of Fulvias for the 50th next year I wonder if a suggestion could be that a kind of short car swap - even just driving round the Goodwood car park - could be arranged ideally between someone who considers their car to be as Lancia intended versus someone (like me!) who have had their car for so long that they've perhaps gotten used to certain, um, foibles and where such a comparison would be really useful. Just a thought.

[lancialulu]

My 1600HF has 175/70 Dunlop Sport 200 (nice assymetric with flexible side walls) on 14 in Cromodoras - steers nicely above parking speed. My1600 Sport is on 5.5J 14 Cromodoras and 175/80 Michelin Energy. This is even nicer to steer at parking due to the higher ratio steering box.

[davidwheeler]

Confession time.  In the course of doing the brake servo, the steering box was exposed.  I put a lot of oil into it and took up a lot of slack.  Pumped the tyres up to 32 psi and, goodness me, it feels like a Lancia!   In fact, it is so light and sensitive I wonder if 32 psi is a bit too much in the front tyres.     Now all I have to do is cure the terrible flat spot below 3,000 rpm but that is another post.  I think I'll take it to my local tuning wizard, especially as it now stops as well.

[lancialulu]

32 for the track maybe but 26 for the road!!

[HF_Dave]

Oil in the steering box really helps , check the idler box as well , access is through a hole in the battery tray. Thanks D :)avid.

[nistri]

Please note that modern tyres are designed to run at higher pressure than the one written in the Fulvia booklet. I advise 2 bars for all four wheels. If the idler box does not have a grease nipple, it is a good idea to fit one. Andrea

[lancialulu]

On Idler boxes (which are much easier to remove than the steering box) also replace the poor plastic bearing found in later non-grease-nipple boxes with phosphor bronze bearings available from Cavalitto (need to be turned down) or select a suitable size pair of camshaft bearings which is what my local shop did (some nissan diesel...).

These plastic idler bearings wear and exhibit an issue by wanting to make the car change direction when you lift off the throttle at speed.....

[chriswgawne]

Hello David,
I have just seen your (happy) post of Feb 1st.
Glad you got it sorted as I (and others) couldnt quite see where you were coming from.
Chris