FIAT to take over the world..... well more than Chrylser at least!

[angelorange]

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/05/04/fiat-considering-new-company-to-combine-chrysler-gm-europe-inc/

[sparehead3]

Yeah, heard that on the radio this morning ... Vauxhall man was not happy !

[HPEHF]

Are Fiat are going to buy parts of GM using their own money considering about 2 years ago GM bought themselves out of buying Fiat?

How the market and fortunes of the companies have changed in the following years.

Regards

Simon

[lee69]

Fiat and GM withdrew from their proposed merger a few years back, with Fiat receiving $billions of GM money, so in effect they are buying GM Europe with GM's own money- what a deal! To be honest, I'm not sure how this will pan out, if it goes ahead. And I'm even more uncertain and a little concerned as to how Lancia (and Alfa) will fit into and survive a merged Fiat-GM. I think that the Vauxhall brand will finally be buried though. Time for a proper Saab-Lancia merger?

[fay66]

As an ex Vauxhall employee for 25 years I will be sad if the Vauxhall name disappears altogether.
In reality Vauxhall has had very little say in the cars it produces since Opel were seen by GM as the best thing since sliced bread with the first Chevettes back about 1976, even though VM for many years has had some of the most effective plants in the GM/Opel set up, Always what they have built has been dictated by Opel and GM, and any failings in the cars themselves should be directed back to where the design originated, at Opel.

The problem has been that GM always has looked to building large cars where they can make the most profit, small cars don't make money, hence BMC/British Leyland building Minis for many years before making any money out of them,if in fact they ever did . and everytime a model was replaced at VM the new model was bigger, this got so bad in the years leading upto Opel being given control, that VM models only covered about 30% of the market without having a small car in the line up, a necessary model in the UK.
But GM chose to blame VM & the workforce rather than accept it was their marketing policies on model line up that was the problem.

How it pans out with Fiat/GM will depend how much influence the bean counters have on things, Fiat hasn't exactly been the shining light in European car manufacturing until recently, and certainly as far as reliability and quality control are concerned, they could well gain in expertise by taking over Opel/Vauxhall.

Brian
8227

[Lima]

According to Frankfurter Allegmeiner Zeitung, a leaked FIAT report (called operation football) lays out the planned FIAT strategy, which includes dropping the Lancia brand!!!! 

www.italiaspeed.com
 

[Harvey]

Operation "Phoenix" doesn't seem to mention the same threat, though. However, in current climes, even platform sharing won't disguise the costs of running separate brands. 

[lee69]

Well, we've had a few days to mull over over the implications of FIAT's leaked Operation Football and I'm surprised there haven't been more comments on here. I suppose the demise of Lancia as a brand comes as no surprise to many of us, no matter how much we'd like to see our beloved marque continue. There are lots of posts on lots of other forums, UK, European and US based, with varying opinions about what FIAT should do. Some posters openly call for Lancia to be scrapped and which cite factually incorrect info. I think that most probably one of the most crucial elements in this scenario (and for Lancia's potential survival) is what GM and subsequently FIAT-Opel choose to do with SAAB.

For the record here's what I think FIAT-Opel should do, in an ideal Lancia-phile who also likes SAAB's kind of world....

FIAT and Opel survive as two separate mainstream brands, with significant sharing of platforms, drivetrains and production capacity. There are already suggestions that Grande Punto production will move to Russelsheim and Italian plants will close. FIAT and Opel brands concentrate on their main European market and developing countries such as India, Africa and South America. There are similar rumours of what'll be left of GM USA working with FIAT in such markets. Vauxhall would go as a brand - they'll close Ellesmere Port and Luton anyway, so there'll be no UK content in the Opel brand.

Ferrari and Maserati continue in their current roles as halo brands.

Alfa Romeo survive as the mainstream 'sporting' brand, with the odd halo model (eg 8C), supported by models in most segments. FIAT have invested too much into AR to do otherwise and they have an established share in most markets including China. Alfa Romeo used to enter the US market through Chrysler dealerships. Possible platform sharing for large Alfas and Chryslers.  I can see UK AR dealerships selling Maserati and Chrysler also.

Abarth as the motorsport-based brand, using both FIAT derived and Abarth only models, if the rumours of an Elise based Abarth sports car are anything to be believed. Abarth remains the motorsport hub of the combined FIAT-Opel empire, ie rallying, Touring Cars, GTs. Production cars sold through FIAT and Opel dealerships

Lancia and SAAB are merged to form a new brand, with a real focus on developing emerging technologies (hydrogen fuel cells, aerodynamics) that are trialled in small scale production and then filtered down to the rest of the FIAT-Opel brands. Lancia-SAAB (or Saab-Lancia, which I think sounds and reads better) offers models that are techniclally more advanced, are more 'cutting edge' to the point of being a bit 'left-field' and offer higher levels of luxury, interior design and comfort than its sister brands. I'd like to see a real focus on safety and driveability, utilising both SAAB and Lancia's past glories as pioneers in FWD and turbocharging.  If you go a step further and add Jeep and it's 4WD expertise and IMHO the only real value brand in Chrysler, you've got potential for an interesting blend of technologies and histories.  Adding Jeep would also bring with it US dealerships. That would give SAAB-Lancia/Jeep a model range that went from Ypsilon to Grand Cherokee, hopefully differentiated enough to stand apart from FIAT, Opel, Alfa Romeo and Chrysler.

If the worst comes true and Lancia is for the chop, we must lobby Sig. Marchionne to allow Lancia to finish with a flourish - a limited run of the oft-promised Fulvia and a big engined RWD Aurelia GT. 

Any thoughts?

[angelorange]

Well Bentley and RR became VW brands - maybe Lancia brand could go it alone as a niche like Morgan or perhaps the Chinese could do what India's Tata has done with Jaguar?

Let's hope the Lancia doesn't get any more media tarnish as in the days of nationwide and betamania!

[fay66]

Fiat pulls out of talks with the German Government on Opel /Vauxhall, seems the German Government want too much money, Fiat still interested but not interested with current demands.

Chrysler Dealers are exceedingly unhappy as nearly 800 have been shut down.


Brian
8227