Lancia 1Z armoured car chassis for sale

[frankxhv773t]

I am writing something for Geoff Goldberg on the armoured cars and, whilst there are many conflicting sources, some of the history seems to be falling into place.

Both chassis pictured appear to have the same pattern of worn paint on the bulkhead which is why I assumed them to be the same one appearing with different combinations of engine and gearbox. I don't think any clarity is going to emerge though.

[GG]

Just to put this in context - I made a blog post on the 1Z some time ago, with (what was thought to be then) a lot of detail. Frank has gone into this more carefully. He is preparing a better description with a lot of great detail.... which will be happily posted. Now, if we could only find more 1Zs....

[Dikappa]

Frank,

You are correct, it is definitely the chassis Geoff fotographed earlier.  We checked the wheelbase and being 3350mm it is definitely one of the early truck chassis.

[vigzag]

Blueprint of chassis for 1ZM 35HP 1916

[vigzag]

Blueprint of 1Z truck for comparison

[frankxhv773t]

Brilliant, thankyou. I do have to observe though that the plan you say is for the 1ZM is actually marked as for Autocannone Sa 75 AV rather than Autoblinda or automitragliatrice. Is it sound to consider the the same thing? Somewhere I have seen reference to a "special chassis for automitragliatrice" and there are multiple references to later armoured cars being supplied with a strengthened chassis. The autocannone is said to have been a short lived project which should post date Ansaldo Lancia armoured car production. The plan is dated 28/1/1918.

[vigzag]

Frank, I had assumed the M was for 'Militare' and hence covered all military applications in one shape or form obviously you have more knowledge on that than i do. The blueprint posted is for the autocanon as it has what appears to be the mounting hole for the canon at the back which may not be there on other versions. If you would like the photos in higher resolution let me know and i will send them to you.

[frankxhv773t]

I would hesitate to describe myself as "more knowledgeable", just deeper into the complexities and confusion than most people.

There is a question mark in my mind over the "M" being for "military" for the following reasons.

1) The armoured cars are universally referred to as "1Z" for the early ones and "1ZM" for the later ones. An armoured car can never have been anything but military.

2) The "1Z" autocarri is sometimes described as a civilian truck with a militarised version designated "1ZM" but other sources say this truck was specifically developed for the military in 1912 during the Italo-Turkish War so , again, would only ever have been military. The other possibility, which would make sense in the context of the armoured cars, is that it stands for "modificato" as in "modified".

The various plans do indicate though that the "1Z" designation was still in use in 1918 well after the original truck is said to have gone out of production replaced by the Jota.

[GG]

Looking at the titles on the 1916 drawing - does the handwritten date look like 1916 or 1918? The latter, while odd, is not out of the question. Thoughts, anyone?

Thanks to Colin for posting from his lovely library.

[frankxhv773t]

On the one hand it doesn't look anything like the preceding 8 whilst on the other hand I can't see how you would form a 6 that way.

However my understanding is that the autocanone was only proposed n 1917 and realised in 1918. The caption on the attached picture describes it as experimental in July 1918.