andyps
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Posts: 331
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« Reply #30 on: 10 December, 2020, 11:54:34 AM » |
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Hi Andy, it sounds like the fuel pump isn`t properly earthed and when you switch it on it puts the ignition circuit to earth maybe? If the pump is rubber mounted make sure the earth wire jumps the rubber bobbin and connects the pump mounting bracket to the body. The condenser isn`t the problem as that is on the negative side of the coil.
Recheck your wiring.
Thanks for the suggestion, I did wonder but puzzled as it was working before and isn't now. I didn't install the pump and can see that it is earthed so will try to check it this evening if I get chance. I'm getting close to a first drive and impatient for it but want to get little things like this sorted first!! |
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Neil
Permanent resident
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« Reply #31 on: 10 December, 2020, 12:46:32 PM » |
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I would avoid connecting the fuel pump to the coil, use the fuse box connection as recommended, if you do connect to the coil I suspect you will have some issues with fuel starvation and bad running as experienced by at least one LMC member which took many months to resolve.
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Neil
386
1973 Fulvia S2 1.3
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andyps
Megaposter
Posts: 331
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« Reply #32 on: 10 December, 2020, 02:48:19 PM » |
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I would avoid connecting the fuel pump to the coil, use the fuse box connection as recommended, if you do connect to the coil I suspect you will have some issues with fuel starvation and bad running as experienced by at least one LMC member which took many months to resolve.
It was connected to the coil when I bought the car, I think it had been done as a quick way to get the car running before sale having been stood for a very long time. I'm wanting to change it from that as I know it isn't ideal, and it is the revised solution that is causing the issues, but I there is something else wrong which has probably been highlighted by the change I'm making. |
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Jaydub
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Posts: 346
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« Reply #33 on: 10 December, 2020, 03:51:03 PM » |
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Neil, I can`t agree with your suggestion that connecting to the coil will be a problem as connecting it to Fuse 9 is the same thing. The coil is switched from Fuse 9 when the ignition is turned on. If someone had a fuel starvation issue there must have been something else associated with it other than being connected to the coil. Personally I would use Fuse 7 for the supply, with an extra inline fuse if you want to be doubly sure. That way you can run the pump independant of the ignition switch if you wanted to for checking float levels or.....
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1600 HF. S2.
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lancialulu
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« Reply #34 on: 10 December, 2020, 04:13:47 PM » |
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Neil, I can`t agree with your suggestion that connecting to the coil will be a problem as connecting it to Fuse 9 is the same thing. The coil is switched from Fuse 9 when the ignition is turned on. If someone had a fuel starvation issue there must have been something else associated with it other than being connected to the coil. Personally I would use Fuse 7 for the supply, with an extra inline fuse if you want to be doubly sure. That way you can run the pump independant of the ignition switch if you wanted to for checking float levels or.....
I think it is wiser to have the supply controlled by the ignition as a minimum...I can see also the attraction to wire it through an oil pressure switch or gravity switch but have never done these. always use an extra 4 amp fuse off the supply one chooses. |
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
Lancias:
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia Sport 1600
1983 HPE VX
1988 Delta 1.6GTie
1998 Zeta 21. 12v
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andyps
Megaposter
Posts: 331
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« Reply #35 on: 10 December, 2020, 05:52:34 PM » |
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Neil, I can`t agree with your suggestion that connecting to the coil will be a problem as connecting it to Fuse 9 is the same thing. The coil is switched from Fuse 9 when the ignition is turned on. If someone had a fuel starvation issue there must have been something else associated with it other than being connected to the coil. Personally I would use Fuse 7 for the supply, with an extra inline fuse if you want to be doubly sure. That way you can run the pump independant of the ignition switch if you wanted to for checking float levels or.....
I think it is wiser to have the supply controlled by the ignition as a minimum...I can see also the attraction to wire it through an oil pressure switch or gravity switch but have never done these. always use an extra 4 amp fuse off the supply one chooses. As it works off fuses 7 & 8 I did wonder about connecting it there but feel the added safety of the ignition circuit would be better although I can't think of a specific reason why! As it seems there is another issue I will resolve it before connecting and do have an inline fuse as part of the wiring I am trying to do. I am using the switch by the heater vent which was unused - I've even got the light to work so it mirrors the heated rear window switch - I've checked by using a new switch I had bought for the purpose and get the same result to the switch isn't the issue. |
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andyps
Megaposter
Posts: 331
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« Reply #36 on: 10 December, 2020, 11:15:02 PM » |
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I think I've found the issue. The earthing all looked fine with the pump, and it is plastic bodied with integral mounts so couldn't really earth itself other than through the wire. What I noticed was that as I touched the wire to fuse 9 I could hear a faint click from under the dash. It seems it was the small round relay shown in the photo here. I haven't found it on the wiring diagram but it has two red wires to one terminal, two black to another and a white one to the third. I've not done a proper job of cleaning the terminals (my fingers were pretty frozen by the time I found it!!) but moving them and spraying with contact cleaner the pump now works connected to fuse 9 with an inline switch - and the ignition stays on when the pump is switched on! Anyone know what the relay does?  |
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lancialulu
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« Reply #37 on: 11 December, 2020, 08:00:25 AM » |
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Handbrake warning light. So if handbrake on the red warning light should (invariable doesnt) flash due to this tin can. Easy to open up and tweake/ clean contacts. Not sure it is the source of your problems.....
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
Lancias:
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia Sport 1600
1983 HPE VX
1988 Delta 1.6GTie
1998 Zeta 21. 12v
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andyps
Megaposter
Posts: 331
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« Reply #38 on: 11 December, 2020, 09:31:13 AM » |
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Handbrake warning light. So if handbrake on the red warning light should (invariable doesnt) flash due to this tin can. Easy to open up and tweake/ clean contacts. Not sure it is the source of your problems.....
Thanks Tim. The handbrake light has looked erratic but I haven't specifically noticed it recently as the handbrake is off whilst I try to sort other things. I couldn't figure how that would affect the fuse 9 connections but it did seem to - on testing last night I was getting the same outcome of the ignition circuit going off if I tried using the cigarette lighter, after getting it working with the fuel pump the cigarette lighter worked as did the circuit for the heated rear window.   |
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Neil
Permanent resident
Posts: 1319
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« Reply #39 on: 11 December, 2020, 09:48:44 AM » |
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Definitely the handbrake relay, mine failed and was permanently on when the handbrake was applied, did not flash, I found a replacement same as Fiat X1/9 if that helps.
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Neil
386
1973 Fulvia S2 1.3
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andyps
Megaposter
Posts: 331
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« Reply #40 on: 11 December, 2020, 11:52:41 AM » |
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Thanks Neil. It might just be the connections to it but I need to investigate properly - my fingers were pretty numb from cold last night when I found that it made the difference I was searching for so I gave up at that stage as I was happy to have the things I wanted working!! Useful to know there is another application as it could help with availability.
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peteracs
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« Reply #41 on: 11 December, 2020, 01:39:23 PM » |
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Hi
Probably the same as used on the Betas as well.
Peter
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Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Beta HPE S2 pre F/L 1600
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lancialulu
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« Reply #42 on: 11 December, 2020, 01:51:58 PM » |
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I think you may have earthing issue which is dragging the 12v down. I am working on a car that does just that when using the indicators - nice!
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
Lancias:
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia Sport 1600
1983 HPE VX
1988 Delta 1.6GTie
1998 Zeta 21. 12v
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Jaydub
Megaposter
Posts: 346
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« Reply #43 on: 11 December, 2020, 03:10:04 PM » |
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As Tim suggested, possible earth issues. Ref. wiring diagram, N0.53 ( Handbrake warning lamp relay) & No. 64 (Flasher relay) are both fed via the Red cables from Fuse 9, Ignition switched.. Black cables from 53 feed 66 (Plug in socket) & 21 (Low Brake Fluid level switch). Check earths on those.
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1600 HF. S2.
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andyps
Megaposter
Posts: 331
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« Reply #44 on: 15 December, 2020, 11:09:47 PM » |
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I've had time to look at the wiring again this evening. I properly cleaned all the connectors on the handbrake light relay and where there are some wires earthing on the steering column mount. The ignition works correctly every time, the cigarette lighter works, the fuel pump works off the switch that I connected it through. The light comes on on the heater rear window switch too (my heater rear window is missing a connection on one end on the glass so I didn't bother with a test lamp across the wires to see if there was current). And the handbrake warning light works correctly - or at least as correctly as it ever has, the switch seems a little sensitive.
I'm not convinced why those connections have made the difference, I'm pleased they seem to have but I wonder if it might be that when fiddling with those wires I moved something else. The one set of connections I haven't done anything with are those on the ignition switch and column stalks. I'll take the column shrouds off and clean those up soon.
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