The Paul Atkinson - Augusta - news update [etc] ...

[Mark Dibben]

Hello All,

Okay, with a new battery the latest is that she runs! Chris wrote the following to me last night:

A couple of things, when first started the oil pressure seemed to be very high, I removed the pressure relief valve cap, spring and ball and checked passages were clear but it didn’t make a difference. I let it idle for a while and it did eventually come down but then, next time I started, the oil pressure stayed low as if it was warm. The pressure did increase with revs.


I'm going up to see Chris on Thursday. With these symptoms, what are we missing?

Thanks eh,
Mark

[Mark Dibben]

I found this from Mike from a while back, so we'll double check the valve surface. Going up tomorrow so if I remember I shall take some photos.

"A few months ago the oil pressure fell so I cleaned the piston of the pressure relief valve which lurks behind a very difficult to remove domed, slotted plug in the side of the cylinder block just behind the water pump. This cured the problem so other than making a new hex head plug to improve access I left it at that. However yesterday the pressure dropped again so I had another look, discovering that the conical valve surface of the spring loaded piston was worn and evidently could seat itself badly in the valve. A few minutes in the lathe sorted that out and the oil pressure is now back as it should be, well over the midpoint of the gauge at 2000rpm"

Hello All,

Okay, with a new battery the latest is that she runs! Chris wrote the following to me last night:

A couple of things, when first started the oil pressure seemed to be very high, I removed the pressure relief valve cap, spring and ball and checked passages were clear but it didn’t make a difference. I let it idle for a while and it did eventually come down but then, next time I started, the oil pressure stayed low as if it was warm. The pressure did increase with revs.


I'm going up to see Chris on Thursday. With these symptoms, what are we missing?

Thanks eh,
Mark

[Mark Dibben]

Okay, got to see her today. Ticks over beautifully, revs to 2000 rpm smooth as smooth too. Chris won't go any higher than that - and certainly won't drive it, for the reason that the oil pressure gauge doesn't go above 1/4 at 2000. Apparently the oil pressure was high enough not only to be right at the top of the scale but to to push past the screw-on oil filter... Investigation required! Any thoughts, gratefully received. They'll help eliminate things. Thanks eh, Mark

[Raahauge]

I don't have a diagnosis but here are a few thoughts to which others may be able to add.
The initial oil pressure must have been exceedingly (dangerously) high for the oil to force it's way past a screw-on filter unless I have misunderstood or the filter was loose. I have never heard of that before.
Difficult to envisage what would cause such a situation.
If the filter was blocked in some way the gauge would not read
The oil gauge reading maximum with new cold oil is quite feasible in my view even if it were low with hot oil.
As there are two relief valves excessive pressure is unlikely.
There may now be muck under one of them to cause low pressure or maybe a broken spring. (unlikely)
Tight clearances on the width of the big ends and centre main bearing are necessary for good oil pressure, I did not appreciate how good they need to be on my earlier engine and the oil pressure was worrying low in service.
The only other thing that I can think of to cause low pressure after a burst of excessive pressure would be for the gasket between the inlet and outlet on the pump to fail but I think that is highly unlikely.
Best of luck.

[Mark Dibben]

Thanks Mike, ever so much. That's really helpful, as always! m

[Mark Dibben]

Okay, the low oil pressure problem... Chris has worked on the pressure relief he forgot about last time. He had made a special tool to remove the cap and, after some work with WD40, he managed to get the spring out but found it to be badly bent out of shape (see respective photos below). However, the piston will not come out. Perhaps this explains things. It's always the one you forget, never the one you remember!
Any ideas as to a) how to get the piston out and b) on the spring specs to get a new one.
Thanks ever so much,
Mark

[Mikenoangelo]

I use a short length of stiff plastic tubing which when pushed into the valve slides tightly onto the piston so you can pull it out. There is a picture on page 19  of the Augusta Progress thread.

If nobody can offer a correct replacement spring I will take mine out and measure it and measure it's load rating. I did this for some of the minute springs in the front suspension valves and was able to buy suitable replacements on line.

Mike Clark

[Mark Dibben]

Thanks Mike, ever so much. That'd be a great help if you wouldn't mind doing it. All best cheers, Mark

[Running Board]

didn't someone have new springs made a few years ago? australia "springs" to mind , i'm sure my dad bought some , i can have a look over the weekend when i'm at my mums house if you want, James

[Mark Dibben]

Hello James, Yes please that'd be a great help. Chris was wondering whether the two pressure relief valves had the same springs in. I had to say 'dunno, but shall ask. Thanks eh, Mark

[Mark Dibben]

Aside from the ongoing queries re the pressure relief valve spring, Chris has had a good day working on the car today. I thought I'd update you on what he has been doing.
A bit of background first, if you take a look at 'the engine back in photo' above, you'll notice a fuel tap by the carburetor. This has been a pain for leaking. Plus the cockpit fuel tap is no longer reliable because the reed centre is worn and old. So we decided to obviate both with a new fuel tap on the end of the fuel filter bowl. Without any need for the cockpit fuel tap, we were able to address a concern I have had about the car from the beginning, and that is the fact that there is no inherent fail-safe feature in the starting procedure, because you cannot use your left foot to de-clutch. It being needed to push the starter button. Since the engine fires on half a turn, if I were ever to leave it in gear I'd be through the car in front in a jiffy!
I'll let Chris take up the story - photos attached.
"A couple of photos from today. The first shows the fuel tap as fitted to the filter bowl, Joe [Chris' go-to one-off maker of things; he made the pressure relief valve release tool too Chris told me] made the adapter this morning, I think it looks just fine and even the alignment of the tap was pretty much perfect. The solenoid & switch also came this morning. I found a rubber blanking grommet that fitted the hole of the removed switch, used a pair of nuts and bolts to make a couple of posts on the solenoid and then painted these and the bracket black. I drilled new mounting holes and the fit is really good, the posts on the bracket meant I could fit it without having to be inside and outside the car at the same time. I put the new switch in the dash and connected and tested the solenoid. With it located in the same place as the original [starter] switch it meant that I didn’t have to modify the battery and starter cables so I hooked these up and it all works perfectly. I am a bit pleased with how well this has worked out and it is going to make it a lot easier and more convenient to start. The photos show, in order, the fuel tap & filter bowl, the solenoid and the fan and starter switches [and the separate horn button we have had done too, because the four spoke wheel didn't have the room in it for a centre-push horn, but this arrangement works very well because you can reach it with a finger without having to take your whole hand off the wheel] in the dash. I actually replaced the fan switch, I found it was and On-Off-On type so I replaced with an Off-On type with Off in the up position to match the starter switch.

I will get back on with the oil pressure thingy tomorrow. Does your pal know if the pressure relief valve springs match? [anyone??] I can pull out the lower one out and use it for reference if they do."

I should add that Paul had fitted an electric 'pusher' fan in front of the radiator to improve cooling; the eagle eyed may have noticed there is no fan where it would normally be. We decided to keep this arrangement. So anyway, quite apart from the way in which the solenoid installation has gone in - almost as if it should have been thought of in the factory! - we can now disconnect the engine from the gearbox on start. Plus we can turn the engine over without the ignition on, which is a good thing to be able to do too.

Hooray, a good day!

[simonandjuliet]

The fuel tap set up is very similar to my Ardea camioncino - mine leaks as well !

I find that the carb sometimes floods even when not running so I was going to check the float and float valve in the carb as well, in the meantime I will add a tap like yours

[Running Board]

Hello James, Yes please that'd be a great help. Chris was wondering whether the two pressure relief valves had the same springs in. I had to say 'dunno, but shall ask. Thanks eh, Mark

 
sent you a pm j

[Mikenoangelo]

Good idea fitting  the solenoid. The foot pedal switch is a pain - odd idea really but curiously Rolls Royce also used it in the 20's. The worst moment is when you stall the engine on an uphill junction and have to get out of gear, apply the handbrake, press the starter pedal and ignore the impatient driver behind you! Your solenoid looks like a 6v but I would need a 12v as our Augusta runs 12v.

If you still need me to measure the oil pressure spring do let me know and I'll sort it this weekend.

I used the car yesterday, 90 miles around the Dales on a VSCC local pub lunch run. Lovely day out.

Mike Clark

[Kari]

Further up this tread, the question was whether the 2 regulating springs are the same. They are not.
The safety valve at the bottom left protects the oil filter from exzessive pressure during a cold engine start. It's a steel ball set at 6 bars (87 psi approx)
The pressure regulating valve behind the wate pump will remain open on a cold engine to protect pipes, gaskets and not to forget, the oil pressure gauge. It's a piston set at 3,5 bars. (43,5 psi)

I was wondering what pressure is indicated by the standard Augusta oil pressure gauge in the "Normale" section. We have to take in account that those instruments are almost 90 years old and might be out of calibration,  those who not will indicate zero when the pressure is removed, like the one on the picture attached. I have seen several of those in advertisements in the internet.

I did check my gauge against a modern gauge and found the values as shown on the photo. I assume that the "NORMALE" range would be between 1,5 and 3 bars.

I hope that helps a bit.

Regards   Karl