Boot lid seal

[Raahauge]

Good evening everyone. I would be pleased to hear of experiences with boot lid seals and exhaust fumes inside the car.
I previously had some smell inside the car and I thought I had fixed it by a combination of deflecting the exhaust out sideways and adding some rubber strip around the lid.
Today however I have done 80 odd miles and whilst I could not actually smell it when driving my eyes now sting a little and I there is a whiff on my cloths.
Any contributions appreciated.
Mike

[Mikenoangelo]

Curious -- I would think that behind the boxy body would normally be a low pressure area aerodynamically so unlikely to suck  exhaust fumes into the boot, however strange things can happen. I had a D back RR20 saloon with a small skylight in the middle of the roof and if opened that would suck in exhaust enough to make me feel really bad which was odd because it was at least 3 metres away from the tail pipe, up the back and forward along the roof!

I haven't had the problem with the Augusta although since the windscreen seal is a bit leaky that probably maintains positive air pressure in the car.

Do you have the orginal fishtail on the tailpipe? That perhaps give the exhaust a bit of a boost away from the boot.

Mike Clark

[Kari]

I never had any issues regarding exhaust gasses inside the car. IMHO there is no gasket at the boot lid.
Perhaps you have oil fumes in the car. There might be leaks in the scuttle. (firewall) All cables, wires etc. should have grommets installed. A place that gets forgotten, is the bottom of the petrol tank where the tube for the fuel sender protrudes int the front foot well. I have fitted rubber washers on the shafts of the brake and clutch pedals.

To be sure, have a person close the exhaust pipe when the engine is running and listen for hissing noises along the pipe.

I hope that helps.

Karl

[RCAno]

This reminds me about what happened a while back (50 years?) we had an old Triumph Herald and when we drove it exhaust gas would collect in the footwells. On investigation the exhaust gas came from the engine compartment. It was traced to a cracked engine block, which was remedied by cold stitching.

[Raahauge]

Thank you all for your contributions.
Kari, I had not considered it coming in from the front but I think in this case it is unlikely.
To elaborate a little, we used an Aprilia in the late 60's which was delightful but it was tiring on anything but a short journey on account of the noise.
When I rebuilt the Augusta I made a great effort to soundproof it with heavy self adhesive pads followed by foam and then by carpet, some pictures attached.
Once I got it on the road I was rather disappointed by the result from a noise standpoint but I did have some fumes in the car. I managed to rectify this to my satisfaction by changing the tail pipe from being straight to facing both downwards and to the side.
I then broke my engine.
With my newly rebuilt unit and with exactly the same exhaust arrangement I have fumes. Since I made my post it has occurred to me that as I am running it in
(I have only done 107 miles) I am motoring on a very light throttle and hence not much gas speed from the tail pipe. Maybe when I speed up it will cure itself?
I think your point Mike about the low pressure area is correct but I come to a different conclusion, because it is so, fumes can get sucked in. I have on a few occasions experienced this on a modern when leaving the boot slightly open to carry something long.
I spent some time on the front screen seal, both Christine Turner and John Millham told me of the difficulties in keeping wind/rain out and I now seem to be watertight.
I had not spotted that originally they had a fishtail though I now see it in the parts diagram, do they point downwards or sideways at all?
Interesting Kari that you don't think they had a boot seal, the sealing elsewhere was quite detailed, I think I will attempt to seal it anyway for good measure,
The noise level is now very acceptable, the earlier disappointment it seems was entirely due to a noisy engine.
Thanks again.
Mike

[Raahauge]

Only one picture has loaded, I will add two more

[Raahauge]

And another.

[Mark Dibben]

Hello Mike,
We did the same thing with the soundproofing to 'Paul's Augusta' and even at tick over Chris reports it to be much better. And that of course was without stripping it completely. Simply lifting the rubber and carpets out, Hammeriting the floors and then fitting the new lightweight Dynomat before replacing the mats and carpet. The door cards were also removed to do the doors.  So like you I certainly recommend it. A two mornings' job to allow the paint to dry. There also had to be quite a lot of work done to the exhaust face to get a flat surface for a complete seal to the exhaust pipe. I mention this because of course there are wire runs from the engine bay to the cabin and the slightest little gap... I s'pose a flashlight in the engine bay and all the workshop lights turned off will reveal them in the cabin.
Looking on ClassicTrader.com at the 5 saloons for sale, three have the fishtail pipe and they are all quite short and seem to face straight out.
https://www.classic-trader.com/uk/cars/search/lancia/augusta?currencyCode=gbp
Cheers, Mark

[Mikenoangelo]

Here is the exhaust fishtail on our Augusta which like the silencer, appears to be original. It projects about 100mm beyond the boot lid.

Also much as I hate to disagree with Karl - our car does have a seal around the top and sides of the boot lid. Whether this is original I don't know but it is there!! Although there is no seal at the bottom above the hinge there is a flange to which a seal could be fitted.

Mike Clark

[Dave Gee]

 
 Trunk Gasket as listed by cicongnani  part No 13295190

  Dave

[GG]

Some later experiences with Aurelias confirm the exhaust issue - in s. 4 B20s, it comes in from the rear boot lid. There is a negative pressure area there. I don't think this is uncommon in Italian cars, as there are several aftermarket exhaust turn-downs, or diverters - and in the 1980s, the Alfa spider came with such from the factory. So too, the correct fitting of the seal around the boot lid is key - I think its mounting is a bit tricky, and many times its done incorrectly. If memory serves correctly, it mounted on the body, not the lid.

Also, later B20s have their fresh air intakes (for the cabin) in the footwells mounted in the firewall - and can bring in fumes from the engine bay. Earlier B20s (like our s.2) have the fresh air intakes in front of the radiator and then ducted back to the cabin, ensuring cleaner air (which is successful). And the little fins on the back of the body somehow affect the air flow, so there is less backdraft of exhaust fumes. Overall, the interior of the car has less fumes, but, to be honest, is not to the same level as modern cars. We tend to forget that back in those days, a ride in the car meant experience with some amount of smells. Its just good to have less... 

[Dikappa]

On the way back from Fobello in the Lambda, we also encountered a weird 'fumes' problem.  At a certain point in France we found no euro98 (ESSO), and as low on fuel filled up some 95 E10.  Only a few km further I stopped the car as I found excessive fuel smell's came to us (open car....), suspecting a leak.  The smell being not even fuel but more like paint...  We found no leaks, and carried on.  The smell got a lot less after we fuelled up again in luxembourg with (Shell) 98 fuel....
Just to point out that also the make/type of fuel might contribute!

[Raahauge]

Thank you all for the extra information and pictures.
With regard to fuel, the variety may be affecting the smell not the air flow, maybe we should be worrying about the fumes we cannot smell.

[Kari]

I am impressed by the elaborate sound proving you did on you car. On one photo I note a big hole in the rear wall of the battery box. What is the purpose?

A few thoughts on the boot lid. The owners hand book does not indicate any seals not even those on the windscreen or at the rear window. If Cicognani is offering seals for the boot lid or doors, it doesn't prove being original equipment.

IMHO there was no seal on the boot lid on a new car. A seal would have to be glued on as there is no other means to hold it. I very much doubt that at that time they would have reliable glue available. The edges of the boot lid are shaped like a gutter, water running down from the surface will collect in there and run down the sides. I have been driving my car in torrential rain and there was no water entering. Same when parked in rain.

All other seals on the Augusta are held by mechanical means, channels, frames etc. Even on modern cars, seals are held by mechanical means and are not glued.

To keep out noise and wind, the doors are sealed by fabric tapes on the inside. With time they can become tired.

If you still suspect exhaust gas entering, then a carbon monoxide warning device would indicate it.

Regards  Karl

[Raahauge]

Thank you Kari, it is a good idea to place a warning device, the result be interesting and I will report on it.
I have fitted a heater in the battery box and placed a small 12V battery under the drivers seat. The hole you ask about is for the fan Motor.
I am about to start another thread, your contributions appreciated.
Mike