Flaminia PF coupe resurrection

[Spider2]

worrying about the lock up. Have you tried backwards? I know this sounds stupid but i guess you tried the with the engine still in situ. It wasn't in gear with the wheels chocked?

[SanRemo78]

Here's your next project Kevin, once the Flaminia is done of course! You're familiar with Y10's?!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275658902611?hash=item402e8d0c53:g:3awAAOSwNBJj2pnZ&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAkFznCRQSDkY2JWtXBf%2BiJ%2FM25uQffbOipbtVlapBj%2FMQ9X7vj3Z93s8sprbph0sL9zOoDPj3NjSdkiQAA24deLq%2FYkX2nk7f58A9cGeYsz8JG%2FlaOqRBEtRe%2FR6uJ2RlSVZiMBTNksRCoaUnG8q2qn%2BbSQAa0KDH%2BCT%2FN0U%2FePJXOJw6R1LcjHlPE30nP5W0qQ%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR76Ew5DDYQ

No connection the seller in Great Yarmouth.
Guy

[Kevinlincs]

Here's your next project Kevin, once the Flaminia is done of course! You're familiar with Y10's?!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275658902611?hash=item402e8d0c53:g:3awAAOSwNBJj2pnZ&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAkFznCRQSDkY2JWtXBf%2BiJ%2FM25uQffbOipbtVlapBj%2FMQ9X7vj3Z93s8sprbph0sL9zOoDPj3NjSdkiQAA24deLq%2FYkX2nk7f58A9cGeYsz8JG%2FlaOqRBEtRe%2FR6uJ2RlSVZiMBTNksRCoaUnG8q2qn%2BbSQAa0KDH%2BCT%2FN0U%2FePJXOJw6R1LcjHlPE30nP5W0qQ%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR76Ew5DDYQ

No connection the seller in Great Yarmouth.
Guy

Yes, seen it and asked about it.
Tempted, but I'm always tempted!

[Kevinlincs]

Got a frame made up out of some box section that bolts to my engine stand via the bracket I made that fits the stud pattern of the delta/dedra engine plus the Alfa TS engine, should be enough clearance to pull the flywheel off and everything else needed.

[Kevinlincs]

It'll be a week or two until I get chance to strip it down as other more pressing jobs take over, I know I'll need a thermostat housing though!

I have managed to get it to move slightly now using a prybar in the ring gear, so at least it seems to be that it's not fully locked up through damage or anything. Have resisted trying to turn it over further as I want to try and save as much as possible, things like the crank shells are crazy expensive expensive so I hope to save some parts.
My big concern is the state of the heads, or the faces more accurately. I hope they haven't corroded and pitted beyond saving. With the unknown condition of the internals and galleries it simply has to be stripped down if there's any hope of a long life for it.

[Richard Fridd]

Exciting work! What is the likely cause of what is now not a 100% seizure? Is it true rings can be freed off after years of inactivity?

  Richard

[Kevinlincs]

The cause of the siezure is most likely inactivity now, rather than any catastrophic failure, so that's good news.
Piston rings full of now carbonised old oil can stick very firmly in the bores, my pouring in through the spark plug holes of parafin was hoped to have worked down the piston sides to lubricate and clean them enough for me to turn it over via a socket on the front crank pulley, but it wouldn't budge. As is now does then maybe that's finally done the job.
The crankshaft could have started to form rust on the bearing surfaces due to the oil drying away, forcing rotation if that has happened would cause damage.
There are many other things that could have happenned, simple things like the camshaft seizing in its bearings, valves in their guides, the elaborate rocker gear looks ripe for seizure through lack of use to me. Even the camchain itself can seize, like a pushbike chain does if it's not used for years.
Any of these issues if forced back into service without being solved can cause a huge engine failure if I try to forcibly get the engine running, people have said to me why not tow the car off to get it running and such like! Imagine if the valve gear has seized the damage that would be caused if the chain jumped, or the pushrods got bent enough that the now moving pistons imact on still open valves.
Best is to take the long route and strip it down to see what's gone on, even if that means money being spent and potential issues such as the liners being disturbed , but if the engine is to have a future it needs to be checked.
If started up, assuming I could have rocked it enough to get it freed up then you still have the potential for gummed up piston rings to terminally score the liners before they got hot enough to free up off the piston grooves.
The state of the oil when I drain it will tell a lot, once the sump is off I can then take the big end caps off and inspect the shells. I hope they have survived as seem very expensive, unless anyone knows of a cheaper source than the E360 I found!
Another concern is if the clylinder head faces have corroded and pitted beyond what can be skimmed out. Again, if the galleries have corroded up and become blocked then even if I got the engine started it could, or would create hot spots and damage the engine further.

Plus I do actually love engines and stripping them down, seeing how they work and how they are designed. Having done quite a few more modern ones it will be nice to see the engineering from back then, which from the few parts I've taken off already it is going to be fascinating. The little speedo drive gear that I took out before the brackets for the engine frame blocked it in is like a jewel, over engineered some might say but the fact it is so smooth in operation now some 60 years after it was first made is testament to thw quality in the first place. Parts on modern engines seemed designed to fail now! I guess that comes down to cost, and why Lancia were doomed to failure putting engineering excelence over making it profitably.

[frankxhv773t]

A 50/50 mix of ATF and cellulose thinners is an excellent penetrating and releasing fluid. I haven't done trials against paraffin though.

[Kevinlincs]

Haven't tried that but guess it'd work well, would make it thin and runny enough to penetrate down.
I used parafin as that's what I use in one of the parts washing tank and it's a great cleaning agent and has an oily, waxy slippy feel to it.
Heard people use all sorts, diesel for example. Guess anything thin enough with a bit of detergent and oils in it would work.

[frankxhv773t]

Years ago Practical Classics did a comparative test on all the commercially available penetrating and releasing fluids and included this as it's an old mechanic's recipe. They found it out performed anything on the market.

[Kevinlincs]

Parts returning from the powder coaters for my Alfa GTV haven't materialsed so I'll have time tomorrow to start the engine strip down, hopefully I won't find any disasters!

[Kevinlincs]

Managed to mostly get the engine stripped this afternoon, apart from releasing the heads which are being very stubborn and won't shift.
Has anyone attempted to make some kind of bracket that uses the rocker shaft mount studs and presses down on the head studs to put lifting pressure on the head?

Anyway, the engine and its condition.
Once the timing cover and flywheel was off the sump could be dropped. I'd left the oil draining through a paint filter in the funnel to see if any metal chunks came out, thankfully nothing drastic but plenty of carbon chunks.
The bottom of the sump though had a good 10mm of sludge from the oil being so old.
The crank and rod ends though looked good with everything in place, a relief that it didn't have a banana shaped conrod!

[Kevinlincs]

Timing gear housing was reasonably clean, just old cakes oil sludge.
The nut holding the timing gear to the camshaft is an odd one, and the peg system that locates the gear to the cam itself also odd.
I used an old socket to fit the nut, cut down to leave 4 castle pegs to locate in the slots.

[Kevinlincs]

With the crank out I'd hoped that the pistons could be withdrawn into the crankcase so a large piece of wood cut be inserted up the liners to try and knock the head off its seal, with all valves closed a piece of soft wood wouldn't hurt the head face.
But not to be. The pistons won't come past the main bearing webs in the crank case.
At least I could move all the pistons up and down the bores, one has some rust on the surface of the liner so that could have been the reason for the stuck feeling I had.
Rest of them appear in great condition all things considered, so the pistons and liners should be good to reuse.

[Kevinlincs]

Big end and main bearing shells though are toast, hardly any silvering left on them. The crankshaft appears good though, no scoring although I've yet to measure it, but should be fine to go again.

The amount of powdery corrosion in the waterways is remarkable, the water pump needs a rebuild and the thermostat housing needs repairing or replacing.
As long as the heads come off and have no damage then it looks like a gasket set, both shell sets and some piston rings should sort it. New timing chain would make sense too.

One thing did go wrong though, self inflicted damage.
When I had the engine upside down taking the oil pump off it entered my head to take the drive out, just as I heard it fall out to the floor! Doh.
Unfortunately it broke one side of the drive off, but looking at the broken ends I reckon it was already cracked, the break was discoloured and not a bit clean so must have been cracked, so maybe a bullet dodged with a part ready to fail? Either way I now need a distributor to oil pump drive shaft.