Flaminia PF coupe resurrection

[Richard Fridd]

Very interesting.  I must remember the modified socket method. That suspected cracked oil shaft may have revealed itself at a fortunate moment.
 Also handy to know the pistons can't be withdrawn from below. And overall a reminder to the 'tow to free off, plus a a good fast run' 'cure for all ills' view.
 A head withdrawal/ refitting tool will be a worthwhile tool to make. And one tool would fit both heads. 

  Richard

 

[Dave Gee]

I'm sorry, but I have mislaid the memory stick with the rest of the pictures on of the engine build. I will keep my eyes open and have another look as we have recently had building work done which has caused chaos throughout the house.
A word of advice about the cylinder heads: when you get them off, check the bungs in the waterways. These have a tendency to corrode from the inside and cause the water to mix with the oil. Superformance do them for the Ferrari 308 which fit the Lancia and they're not expensive!

Thermostat housing: I have a similar problem with my son's Fulvia, for which I am making a replacement part. I can as easily make 2, as 1. You would then just have to weld it on. Let me know whether you want one.

Looking at where you've got to, and your likely needs, I reckon I may have most of the parts available that you will need. If you can either send me a list or you come over, we could sort them out.  Dave

[Kevinlincs]

Thanks for the comments guys.
Richard I agree the heads look symetrical so a tool made to lift the head should suit both, won't be a pretty tool but should do the job....I hope!
Dave thanks for the pointers, I'll be sure to check that out. I've also sent you an email about parts, sorry it's a long one!

The plan for the car is still fluid, if anyone comes along that wants to take the car on I'd be happy to talk whilst it's still at an affordable project car stage. The further along I go it will get more appealing as a running/driving car but as I spend the cars' price will go up. If I get to the point where it's a runner and still no takers I may even be at the point where I just bite the bullet and make it my own, do the body repairs and get it sprayed. But by then it would be NFS! I'd be liking it too much 

[frankxhv773t]

Thinking back many years to when Martin Buckley was writing about his first Flaminia Berlina he had a similar problem with removing cylinder heads. I think it may have been the head studs corroding onto the aluminium head. His father solved it by heating the area round the stud then dripping cold oil on the actual stud. It was a long process. I'm sure its a regular problem that there are solutions to. 

[chriswgawne]

I have had experience of Aurelia heads being firmly attached to corroded studs with varying experience and solutions.
Many many years ago I bought a  B20 c/w its original engine where the previous owner had run a disc cutter through the end of one head gasket leaving parts of studs to be removed from the block and heads as well as the block and head needing building up with aluminium. He had used a hammer and chisel on the other end of the head casing damage but at least that end moved!
On another occasion I bought an Aurelia where the previous owner ( a bona fide restorer!) had drilled out all the head studs down to the face of the block. The heads were ruined and needed replacing and all the studs ( which were now flush with the block face) needed drilling out and extracting. At least the block face was good. I had all the studs removed by a superb machine shop in NE Italy who fitted steel inserts.
My own big personal mistake was to buy an Aurelia engine some years ago which looked to be a straightforward rebuild. However what the owner didnt tell me was that the engine had been outside one winter exposed to the weather. I and expert friends of mine tried every trick in the book (including using hollow drill bits to go between  the outside of the studs and the head) to move the heads without success and in the end Omicron agreed to have a go. They hacksawed very carefully through the head gaskets so no damage to the head or block faces was caused but of course there were all the part-studs to be removed from the heads and block. A very expensive exercise for me as you might imagine . This took an age but the engine was saved and it happened to have a really good bottom end so I felt the expense was worth it.....but not financially by a long way.
I am therefore v interested to see how the heads on this Flaminia engine are lifted. Hopefully the engine hasnt been exposed to inclement weather for too long.
Chris 

[Kevinlincs]

Blimey, what a story! I do hope they won't give me that amount of grief  I certainly don't intend of using a chisel between the faces!
I do have a plan, but if they are that tight it may be a struggle, I'll most likely give ita go this Saturday so will give an update when I have news.

I wonder if the studs can be sacrificed by using a stud extractor on them to release their grip on the head? Assuming they can then be removed from the block without snapping and causing more drama. Maybe the lesser of two evils if my plan doesn't work, I've seen new ones advertised for sale, but even then they should be easy enough to find new.

Should be fun, either way it has to come apart somehow.

[chriswgawne]

You may be lucky with a good stud extractor but access to exposed studs is somewhat limited. Regarding new studs, i have had a couple of bad experiences with new studs from bona fide parts suppliers over the years and so these days i try to use good OE studs which exhibit no corrosion or 'necking'. I believe the quality of what Lancia  used back in the day to be superior to what is offered new today.
Chris

[Parisien]

Just as an aside, this is a link to the first of five instalments of a Flaminia purchased in Europe and his adventures through Europe, a good read and indeed uplifting Kevin!

https://bringatrailer.com/2014/06/12/reader-mail-american-family-across-europe-in-a-lancia-flaminia/

P

[Richard Fridd]

Just as an aside, this is a link to the first of five instalments of a Flaminia purchased in Europe and his adventures through Europe, a good read and indeed uplifting Kevin!

https://bringatrailer.com/2014/06/12/reader-mail-american-family-across-europe-in-a-lancia-flaminia/

P








Good story. I think I submitted it to VL a little while ago.

[Richard Fridd]

To help with head removal, is it possible to pressurise the combustion chambers with the rocker gear disconnected and all valves closed. A variation on the method of cranking the engine with all valves closed which I thought might be a joke.

  Richard

[SanRemo78]

Or reinstall the crank and big end bearings, remove the plugs and feed nylon rope into the cylinders and crank the engine over by hand? Probably not a starter on a V6 though? A straight 4 would have 2 pistons at the top at the same time so pressure at 2 points might be effective in that scenario but probably not on a V6...

I'll get me coat.

[Kevinlincs]

Interesting ideas guys, I could easily connect an airline to pressurise a cylinder through a plug hole, already have a home made tool that i used for leakage tests. Probably not enough to lift it but may make a few % help, which can't hurt. Air loss down the rings could be overcome to some extent if I pump some grease in first.
Simple enough to bolt the crank back in.

I'll try and avoid taking the studs out then, or damaging them. I do have a couple of decent extractors, a great Snap On one but that does require a fair amount of space around the stud. The other is about the size and shape of a spark plug socket, works well too but both types have teeth that dig into the stud. With no shank only threads to grip damage will be unavoidable to the threads.

That article on the Flaminia was interesting, in that the picture of the Flavia coupe reminded me how much I love the shape, and that I need to get on with mine.
I do want to get this Flaminia up and runnign first though.
Whether it ends up being a runner and tidied, run as is or even a buyer gets tempted by it who knows. But it can't sit around any longer, off the road since 1980, it deserves to run again whilst we still have petrol to buy!

[lancialulu]

There was a thread in Andy Taits Aurelia blog where he made a tool that would be very similar for the Flaminia engine...

[Kevinlincs]

There was a thread in Andy Taits Aurelia blog where he made a tool that would be very similar for the Flaminia engine...

Thanks for that Tim, it is actually very close to the idea I had, but probably better excuted!
Using the rocker studs to create a tool then bolts off that to push down on the head studs in a controlled, steady manor ought to provide enough leverage to gently lift the head......in theory in my head it will work, seeing it work on that Aurelia head gives me hope!

[chriswgawne]

There was a thread in Andy Taits Aurelia blog where he made a tool that would be very similar for the Flaminia engine...

Thanks for that Tim, it is actually very close to the idea I had, but probably better excuted!
Using the rocker studs to create a tool then bolts off that to push down on the head studs in a controlled, steady manor ought to provide enough leverage to gently lift the head......in theory in my head it will work, seeing it work on that Aurelia head gives me hope!

With great optimism I tried Andy's plate and also another heavier duty one on one Aurelia engine - sad to say neither had any effect! This was the engine where in the end Omicron hacksawed through the head gaskets as a last resort.