lighting operation?

[GTVHarvin]

Hi all, happy newbie Fulvia owner here.
I am however totally confounded by the headlamp operation.
It's an Italian market 1969 1,3S Rallye.
Much of the car is very original, the electrics appear largely untouched or at least mostly correct.
But the headlamp dipped/full and flashing operation can't get my head around!
It also seems to have a function where the dipped lamps will stay on upon turning the ignition off, until exiting the car and closing the driver's door.
Not sure if this is a retrofitted function?
I am unable to flash the lamps quickly in any configuration.
I can however do the following:
If knob is out and fully to the right, and the stalk is towards the dash it is on full beam (blue light on dash appears)... using the ring on the wheel I can switch to dipped instantly... but can't switch back instantly (?)
Any suggestions of correct operation?

[roddy]

Welcome to Series 1 Fulvia motoring. Check out this for an initial starting point:-  Series 1 Fulvias came out on to the market in an era when you had side lights, and headlights.  You then had to occasionally dip the headlights for the infrequent on-coming car.  I know I am giving my age away!  This means that you MUST switch on the Fulvia headlights with the steering column stalk in the forward position (main beam), to activate the relay to bring the headlights on. Bringing the column stalk back should now dip the headlight beam.

The centre button in the boss of the steering wheel activates a headlamp flash on main beam, irrespective of the lighting switch.  You can hear the relay activating.

Hope of some initial help.  Regards -

[Wangler]

A timely subject for me. I cannot get used to pulling the stalk towards me for main beam on my S3. Every other car I’ve owned is push away for main beam. I’ll have to see if I can swap the wiring over without making the blue main beam warning light work the wrong way around.

The problem is compounded by the fact that I have wired a pair of Cibie auxiliary driving lights to come on when the main beam is activated.

[GTVHarvin]

The centre button in the boss of the steering wheel activates a headlamp flash on main beam, irrespective of the lighting switch.  You can hear the relay activating.

Thanks for these observations.
I thought(?) I was already familiar with this era of headlamp operation as the Fulvia is the youngest in the garage (1950's MG and 1930's motorcycle)
But it's got me stumped!
Now I wonder maybe the relay connected to this boss isn't functioning as it should... I can turn the main beam off with it but not back on?
Will have a look at the schematic tomorrow.

[chriswgawne]

You might find the insulation/wire going down the steering column from the headlight flasher is faulty. Also from memory there is a rotating connection down by the steering box which might need cleaning and adjusting.
Chris

[fay66]

If you look in the previous Fulvia articles this has been discussed numerous times.
Lights need physically turning off, otherwise they will stay on even with the ignition key removed.
Brian
8227

[lancialulu]

It also seems to have a function where the dipped lamps will stay on upon turning the ignition off, until exiting the car and closing the driver's door.

Never heard of this. more likely dodgy wire or connection disturbed by closing the door??

[GTVHarvin]

If you look in the previous Fulvia articles this has been discussed numerous times.
Lights need physically turning off, otherwise they will stay on even with the ignition key removed.
Brian
8227

I think I wasn't clear in my post, it's not at all that I expect them to turn off without using the knob.
I am speaking primarily of the methods of switching between main and dipped beams.
In addition to this there seems to be a set of conditions (haven't figured out yet) whereby you cannot turn dipped beam off. The car can be shut off and they will remain on regardless of knob position. They will turn themselves off only upon exiting and closing the door (much as a modern car would so think this is a retrofit not a janky wire)

[roddy]

Admittedly I have not checked with my own S1 today, but going back to my earlier post, I think the column stalk must be in the forward main beam position to activate the headlight relay, both to bring it 'on' and to deactivate it 'off'.  It may be, but I am not sure, that the column lever needs to be in the forward position to activate the headlamp flash as well. As I always have the lever forward in the car, it is the sort of thing you don't necessarily wonder about?

Regards -

[GG]

As best can recall, door operation to shut lights off was never in the Lancia cards. There is a logic to the operations, which takes some time to get one arms around, but it does make a certain kind of sense. You've got some other things layered on top of this, which might be simpler if peeled off....

[Sebastien]

I may be able to help on a few points, using experience from importing a Fulvia Sport 1,3S (1st series) to Switzerland.

1. It seems that in Italy at the time, flashing the lights using the button in the middle of the steering wheel was done on dipped beams. When the Swiss authorities tested a 1st series presented by the Swiss importer, they mentionned on the homologation paper that the headlight flasher needed to be modified to flash on full beam - see appended document (At the bottom of the page: Modifié par l'importateur: Avertisseur optique doit être branché sur les feux de route.). So I assume that in each country the importer modified the wiring to satisfy the applicable country laws. This may explain why we find such different operations on different cars! My Sport being an Italian car (from Pavia) we also had to change the wiring to flash on full beam! That function was tested during the 2022 technical inspection (very thorough!) and the car passed with no objections!

2. On my Fulvia too, the full beam of the headlights came with the lever pulled near the steering wheel, which was counterintuitive. When you check the operating manual, it clearly gives the other position for the main beams, i.e. the lever pushed away from the steeering wheel. We could not change the position by switching the wiring on the stalk, near the steering column. It had to be done by changing the wiring at the other end. It now works according to the operating manual!

[OldSparky]

Glad I am not alone - so new to the car haven't managed to get dipped beam on yet.  However car is has been modified so only 2 headlights as 2 auxiliaries ( to meet  Classic rally regs) Will need further help I am sure.

[roddy]

Okay, it seems to be getting even more confusing.......

However I have check on my own car today, and can report as following :-

The steering wheel button flashes the headlights on DIP beam, irrespective of where the light switch or the column lever or ignition switch are.

If you have the headlights on via the switch, and the lever towards you on dip beam, then the headlights will not go off when you turn off the lights switch.

Perhaps an obvious point I should have first made, the dash switch pulls out to its first position to activate the sidelights etc.; you twist clockwise and then pull out to the second position, to activate the headlights.

Hope of some help fathoming it all out?

Regards -

[OldSparky]

Thanks for tip on switch. I don't seem to have any steering wheel button though.  More things to look at.  Have rescued wiper spindle - a small success.

[Wangler]

I may be able to help on a few points, using experience from importing a Fulvia Sport 1,3S (1st series) to Switzerland.

1. It seems that in Italy at the time, flashing the lights using the button in the middle of the steering wheel was done on dipped beams. When the Swiss authorities tested a 1st series presented by the Swiss importer, they mentionned on the homologation paper that the headlight flasher needed to be modified to flash on full beam - see appended document (At the bottom of the page: Modifié par l'importateur: Avertisseur optique doit être branché sur les feux de route.). So I assume that in each country the importer modified the wiring to satisfy the applicable country laws. This may explain why we find such different operations on different cars! My Sport being an Italian car (from Pavia) we also had to change the wiring to flash on full beam! That function was tested during the 2022 technical inspection (very thorough!) and the car passed with no objections!

2. On my Fulvia too, the full beam of the headlights came with the lever pulled near the steering wheel, which was counterintuitive. When you check the operating manual, it clearly gives the other position for the main beams, i.e. the lever pushed away from the steeering wheel. We could not change the position by switching the wiring on the stalk, near the steering column. It had to be done by changing the wiring at the other end. It now works according to the operating manual!

I've tried but failed to get the main beam to work when the stalk is pushed away.

Swapping over the spades on the fusebox didn't work - would have been too easy! I then swapped the dip light and main beam wires on both sides (grey and green right side, grey/black & green/black left side) and could then only get all the lights on (main + dip + auxiliary driving lamps). It's beaten me, so I guess I'll have to get used to having the stalk working the way I don't want it to. Unless anyone has any ideas?