Poor Massa

[fay66]

An oracle is never revered in his own country (or something like that)

Brian
8227

[ian]

So Hamilton cocked up again....there's a surprise!

[fay66]

And the Ferrari Factor seems to be at work again, Massa causes the incident with Bourdais, but Bourdais gets the penalty and lo and behold Massa moves up a place and takes another point out of Hamiltons lead, anyone care to explain that one

Brian
8227

[fensaddler]

And Massa's misdemeanour with Hamilton seems somewhat more severe, and more significant to the result of the race, than does Hamilton's earlier, yet the penalty is the same.  One rule for Ferrari, one for Maclaren, again.

[ncundy]

Yep, and Ferrari and Massa respond in their usual absolutely classless manner. I'm not even a McClaren or Lewis fan (and he made a complete cods of the start) but between them Ferrari and the FIA manage to insult everyones intelligence ever more regularly.

[stuwilson128]

And the Ferrari Factor seems to be at work again, Massa causes the incident with Bourdais, but Bourdais gets the penalty

I do not agree that there is a Ferrari factor.  In the incident with Bourdais, Massa had got ahead going around the outside.  This was quite visible on the TV in that the nose of his car was ahead that of the Toro Rosso.  When the stewards investigate these situations, they get to see the incident from more angles than we do.  They also get access to the data from the cars.  Taking all this into account, it was decided that Bourdais could have done more to prevent the incident.  Also, from what I saw on the TV coverage, it appeared to me that Massa attempted to back out of going around the outside.  If there was a Ferrari factor, then he would not have been given a drive through for either the incident in Singapore or for his little midemeanour with Hamilton.

On a more positive note, Alonso has gone up in my estimations.  He has said that he will do everything he can to help Massa win the title. 

[ian]

but Massa shouldn't need any help, just as Hamilton shouldn't. We all know it happens but the 'Gentleman ship' in the sport has sometimes, been somewhat lost

[stuwilson128]

And Massa's misdemeanour with Hamilton seems somewhat more severe, and more significant to the result of the race, than does Hamilton's earlier, yet the penalty is the same.  One rule for Ferrari, one for Maclaren, again.

I do not think the incident between Massa and Hamilton did not wreck Hamiltons race as much as you suggest.  Hamilton flat spotted his tyres so badly, he would have had to stop for tyres when he did anyway.  In addition to that, he would have still received the penalty for his rookie mistake into the first corner.  I would suggest that he would still have finished no better than 10th and out of the points.

Massa's penatly was for cutting the corner, in the same way Hamilton did in Spa.  Same offence, same penalty.

[stuwilson128]

but Massa shouldn't need any help, just as Hamilton shouldn't. We all know it happens but the 'Gentleman ship' in the sport has sometimes, been somewhat lost

But we all know why Alonso will help Massa!

[fay66]

Massa is getting a lot of help from Michael Schumacer and by all accounts they are close & he's giving Massa a lot of help; seems like he's given him a copy of the Schumacer book of dirty tricks, and Massa obviously opened it at the page which said, if you don't like having your rival in front, punt him off

Brian
8227

[peterbaker]

I have just returned last night from Maranello and the first public view outside the Paris Motor Show of the new California. Every radio station in Italy was discussing the F1 race and poor old Massa got a fair amount of stick. The race itself was full of incident that needed no interference from the FIA stewards, let them fight it out between them I say, they are all grown up and are quite capable of defending themselves. Except Coultard! Lets enjoy some real motor racing, goodness knows, we have waited long enough.     

[stuwilson128]

Massa obviously opened it at the page which said, if you don't like having your rival in front, punt him off

Have a look at www.formula1.com.  They have footage of all three incidents from different camera angles.  It is quite clear that Massa hitting Hamilton was NOT a deliberate move.  Massa had the nose of his car ahead of Hamiltons rear wheels when Hamilton turned in.  Hamilton should have been aware of this and given him more room.

In the Bourdais incident, Massa was clearly ahead while going around the outside, and it was Bourdais who hit Massa.  From the footage, I say that the stewards reached the correct decision in each case.

[fay66]

Massa obviously opened it at the page which said, if you don't like having your rival in front, punt him off

  Massa had the nose of his car ahead of Hamiltons rear wheels when Hamilton turned in.  Hamilton should have been aware of this and given him more room.

In the Bourdais incident, Massa was clearly ahead while going around the outside, and it was Bourdais who hit Massa.  From the footage, I say that the stewards reached the correct decision in each case.

Sorry stu,
But this sounds like it came straight from Ferrari!
Hamilton should have given Massa more room, like Kimi did to Lewis? Ferrari drivers can't have it both ways, Massa was off the line and on the gravel.

So Bourdais who was going considerably slower than Massa who was coming from behind with all the vision, was to blame for hitting Massa!

After looking at the F1 video,
Incident 1,
Hamilton over cooked the first corner but I think if it had been anyone else it is unlikely they would have been penalised, Ok, cars were going all ways but there was no major accident or damage, we've certainly seen worse in other F1 races.

Iincident 2, I still think it was Massa's fault, if you look at the event from the camera in the McLaren that is behind Lewis's head, at no time do you see the Ferrari, and even if he had, Hamilton still had the line until Massa punted him out of the way.

Incident 3,
As for the incident with Bourdais, it's obvious from the Video that there was no way Massa was going to get around Bourdais on the line he was taking, and he must have been aware of that, he took a chance and it didn't come off, I should think highly unlikely that Bourdais even saw him coming, what with Massa's speed and angle.

Brian
8227

[St Volumex]

Suggestion - let's get this thread renamed to Poor Hamilton. 

[peterbaker]

Well folks, its China at seven in the morning and Hamilton is on pole. But he must be worried to have Ferrari all around. Will it rain. Probably. Will the rain be heavy enough to interfere with the natural race flow. Possibly. Will Renault play a part. Who else is going to wake up early to watch the race live? It could be worth it whoever you want to win.