Fulvia issue

[jus]

Hi all.
I'm having a few problems with a Fulvia, and could do with some collective input.

The car has been stood for a couple of years, was running fine. It's a series 1 HF with 45 Webers - it was completely rebuilt by Vere in Holland prior to storage. It has a standard dizzy, had new plugs and leads when it was being worked on. Not sure about the age of the condensor, coil, rotor arm and cap. The cams are the modern version of the V1016.

What I'm getting, is normal performance for the most part (a bit of a flat spot on the transition from slow running to wide open throttle), but if I go up a decent hill and floor it for more than 10 o 15 seconds, it seems to have misfiring symptoms - and I get pinking, and it loses nearly all power with associated exhaust popping etc. It recovers without completely stopping after 5 seconds or so if I back off, and is ok again.

I've cleaned the carbs out - found some fine silt in the glass bowl of the regulator. I've changed the fuel pump over (Facet red top) because the old one didn't seem to be creating any measurable pressure - I have 3psi now. I've checked the float levels (brass floats in these ones), blown through the fuel line - which all seemed fine. The needles are Viton tipped - and there's no fuel leaking into the venturis - balanced with a flow meter and are all good. I've also cured leaks that I found in the individual carb mounts. But - it seems like a timing issue to me, so before I just change things and hope for the best, I was wondering if anyone has experienced anything like this - and managed to cure it.

Thanks,
Justin.

[lancianut666]

change the plugs.

[Richard Fridd]

  Is the 3psi fuel pressure being measured at the carburettor?

  Richard

[nistri]

Ignition timing is not right. Check also the valve timing.

[lancialulu]

Thats my thinking although replacing the condenser would be my first move.

I run 45 Dellortos on my 1600 and smooth all the way up - same engine spec as your Jus

[Richard Fridd]

 Can timing become "OK again " but become problematic after 10 to 15 seconds giving normal performance for the most part?

  Richard

[nistri]

If the condenser would be faulty, it would be difficult to start the car. When making changes to the engine (different cams, differnt carbs etc), it might be difficult  to set up properly the engine to run smoothly. For instance and I am NOT saying this is the root of the problem, the centrifugal advance of the distributor may be unable to cope with the engine changes. However, the exhaust is popping it is a sign of bad timing.

[jus]

Thanks to all for the comments and suggestions.

The 3psi is measured at the carbs - and there's no fuel return line on this one. It does have a fuel tap in the cabin between the seats, with the two positions marked with an 'N' and an 'R'. Normal and reserve? The inline filter always seems to be empty as well. I've read that this is ok / expected - but I think I might replace it with a non-return valve as there's another filter in the FISPA unit later in the line. If I disconnect the carb input, and pull fuel right through to fill up this filter, it quickly returns to the dry state when the car is started. It's a bit surprising to me - but might be normal - I don't know. Where does this air come from in a sealed fuel line?

The guys at the garage couldn't get the car to start initially (immediately after its two years of storage) - until they had a fiddle with this fuel tap - which they said was stuck. I'd assumed that it had just been left in the same position as it always had been in where it ran fine - and freeing it up to get it going may have been a coincidence. I wasn't there when this happened, so I don't know exactly.

It starts up well enough now though - within half a second of the key being pushed in. It revs fine without any popping under no load.

I've concentrated on the fuel side of things up to this point, because it feels a bit like fuel starvation - in that it drives fine unless you really push it for more than ~10 seconds. If you push it for less time, or don't floor it at all, then you wouldn't really know that there was a problem.

When it does happen, it doesn't 100% feel like lack of fuel, it feels more like the timing's wrong mixed with lack of fuel. I can definitely hear pinking when it happens. Whatever it is, it seems to be dependent on not just high rpm, but the duration of the high rpm. There could be two separate things of course, one triggering the other.
 
I can change the plugs, coil, leads and I could even change the dizzy for the 123 that's in my other Fulvia - just to see. Obviously, one component at a time though.

Thanks for reading - and any comments are always much appreciated.

[Sebastien]

The car has stood two years?
How old is the fuel in the tank?
Was it stored with the tank full, or else?

I would also try another (good) condenser.

[dhla40]

I would remove that inline filter before the pump it is probably restricting the fuel feed, the pump should have its own integral inlet filter.

Sean

[lancialulu]

You mention pinking at high revs. This is not normal. Pinking normally occurs under load say in 3rd or 4th at around 2500-3500 rpm and is a tinkling kinda sound.

Now I have read your latest post I would be thinking fuelling as well. Bypass this mystery tap. What is the fuel tank? Standard 60 years old or what?

[jus]

I would remove that inline filter before the pump it is probably restricting the fuel feed, the pump should have its own integral inlet filter.

Sean

Hi Sean.
Yes - that filter is coming out and you're right - there's a filter in the Facet pump, one in the Fispa unit and also one in each carb inlet, so I can safely remove the plastic one.

Sebastien:
The fuel was old, but most of it was used on the drive back, and I've since put plenty of fresh E5 in. The issues have remained throughout, but I've cured the initial air leaks in the carb mounts that were affecting the idle, I've cleaned the carbs, balanced them and checked / set the floats.

Tim:
The tank is mounted inside the boot and has the large filler in the top of the back wing - as used on the works cars (this one is a works car). I can actually see straight into the tank through the filler and it all looks clean and sludge free. The Vere Lancia guys had the tank off, repaired and refitted it when they renovated it a couple of years ago. I did find that the breather was plugged, so I've removed the bung, but that didn't affect anything.

The pinking happens only when it's having its funny turn (which is when I'm going up a long, steep hill), so the revs are dropping by this stage as the problem causes a loss of power. It doesn't pink immediately before the issue - when it was also going up the same steep hill - just once it starts to have its problem.

I'll see if Omicron have the condensor in stock - but if not, is there a readily available alternative that anyone knows of for the 139a distributor?

Thanks all.
Justin.

[Sebastien]

Sorry, forgot: it could also be the coil going bad, and overheating.
If you ask Omicron, you could as well get the condenser and a new coil!
Try one after the other.

(Over the years, on different cars, I have had 4 coils going bad, the last one last year.)

[Spider2]

If the picture in #7 of the fuel cock is correct then IMO it is selected somewhere between Normal and Reserve which would restrict fuel flow. This would manifest itself when going up hill when fuel flow is needed to be very high.
Problems like this usually are simple to fix but difficult to pin down. This weird fuel cock is not standard so I would look at this first

[jus]

If the picture in #7 of the fuel cock is correct then IMO it is selected somewhere between Normal and Reserve which would restrict fuel flow. This would manifest itself when going up hill when fuel flow is needed to be very high.
Problems like this usually are simple to fix but difficult to pin down. This weird fuel cock is not standard so I would look at this first

Yes - it does look like it's in between positions, but there's a stop in rotation each way, and it is actually up against one end. It freely rotates between the two end stops, but the two positions don't really tie up well with the labels. I'll try and get a Y piece sorted, which will just connect all the lines together - and take it out of the equation.
Thanks,
Justin.