which model

[Scarpia]

I'm off to see a fulvia for sale but I'm not sure how genuine it is .

It's described as a 1970 1.3 rally hf (with the old style series one script on the back)  It is definitely a 4 speed with series one interior with the round heater controls and it has an oil cooler. However its got what I describe as the series 2 front end with the smaller indicators set further back on the on the front wings.It has the series 2 style radiator grill instead of the v shaped series one and is  a european model with flat headlights. The wings have plastic wheel arch extensions.

Was there a transition period with this front end on what I other wise regard as a first series or is it victim of a post accident rebuild? The engine number is 303 which is right for a first series 1.3s? of around 1970.  Unfortunately I don't (yet ) have the chassis number.

[FulviaFiend]

Hi,

Just throwing my two pennies worth in!

Sounds more than a little odd, i know there was a 1.6 Rally HF with the S2 grill and old style script, also had 'Fanalone' style headlights, but i do not know if this still carried over the series 1 interior (anyone else advise?).

1970 was the introduction year for the S2 1.3s, but i am sure this had the new S2 interior as well.

The worrying thing for me would be the engine number of 303 as these, as far as i know were not fitted to HF models (1.3HF engine numbers are 342 / 1.6HF engine numbers were 540), and also 1.3 HF's and Rally 1.3s both ceased production in 1969???

I do know of cars having series 2/3 bodies with series 1 front ends grafted on but have never know one the other way round…

I would definitely seek further more informed opinion on this car, can anyone advise further please?

Sorry if this is no help…
FF

[fay66]

A Friend in the USA who has a HF, Ed Levin, asked could I post an answer regarding this vehicle for him, under the circumstances it's obvious Ed's comments are relative, so here they are.

"There are many transitional-spec Fulvias, but this certainly doesn't sound like one of them. Your instinct that this is an S1 with a later front end is exactly right, and accident repair would indeed be one plausible explanation though there could be others.

It’s also very unlikely that this is a genuine, unmolested HF. You'll want to confirm the chassis number, but a real 1.3HF would be chassis type 818.340/341, and it would have engine type 818.342—not type 818.303; the latter is correct for an S1 1.3 Rallye S and all S2/S3 1.3S Coupes as well. Plastic wheel arch extensions were only used on the 1.6HF–not the 1.3HF, so these have also been added after the fact. But, in short, it’s clearly not correct as described.
The one thing that isn't very worrying in itself is the date of 1970.  Fulvia Chassis Plates don't carry a build date, so it's not unusual for the cars to be registered with a date somewhat later than the actual build date, which in the case of the 1.3HF would probably be 1967-1968".

Brian
8227

 Please note, amended at Ed's request.

[fay66]

For Information.
"La Lancia" Lists 1.3 HF build as follows.

818.340/341 1967-1969.(coupe 1.3 HF)  Chassis Numbers 1001-1295
                                                       Chassis Numbers 1404-2089


Brian
8227

[Dilambdaman]

Strange, the log book for the 1968 ex-works 1.3HF I rallied in the 70's shows the chassis number as 818342 01445.

So, what was an 818342? I can't see it listed in La Lancia.

Robin.

[ncundy]

i know there was a 1.6 Rally HF with the S2 grill and old style script, also had 'Fanalone' style headlights, but i do not know if this still carried over the series 1 interior (anyone else advise?).

The works produced 20 (IIRC) Fanalones based on S2 bodyshells (give away is the bulkhead). These were not available to the public, being used by the works team after they decided to prolong the life of the Fulvia in rallying. These had rally interiors. I have never heard of s2's with Fanalone style being available to public, no mention in any of the books either.

[Scarpia]

took a little longer than expected to meet up with the owner.Rather a mundane ending to the story as anticipated.

chassis 818360001776 makes it in my book a very late 1st series 1.3 rally S which support a production of late 1970. No apparent explanation for the series 2 nose and looking at the car, there's no real evidence of it being replaced at a later date. All looks straight and equally old/dirty. The front body extensions that the subframe is mounted to below the radiator are not bent so if its been damaged, its well repaired.

either someone replaced the front end quite early in the mistaken belief that modernising would improve the look or it left the factory that way as some sort of transitional mix up.?

[lancialulu]

it could just be that an old italian customer spec'd lhd to a continetal body as I have heard die hard lanchisti preferred lhd!

Tim

[Scarpia]

I think you meant real Lancisti prefer rhd but it doesn't alter the difficulty of explaining why a series 2 front end is on a car that is a late series 1 rally 1,3 s. No sign of repair, damage or replacement.

[FulviaFiend]

The plot thickens!

Or… another theory, someone has replaced the chassis plate and the engine (together with some trim) from an older car, try checking the scuttle gutter and see if the numbers match between body and plate?… just an idea, seems a bit extreme i know!

FF

[lancialulu]

yep well spotted - as a left hander I am always mixing up left from right - beware!!

Has it got s2 brakes and suspension?

Tim

[Scarpia]

dunlop brakes, oil cooler , series 1 interior, 4 speed gearbox without any form of middleconsole (ie gearlever goes forwards into the floor housing like early models) registered september 70.

i.e a completely series 1 appearing car but with a series 2 nose. bonnet also series 2 style ie without the central rib.

[fay66]

More from Ed Levin in the USA on the subject.

To follow up Scarpia’s mystery-spec Fulvia, his post (#6) with the chassis info says:

 

“chassis 818360001776 makes it in my book a very late 1st series 1.3 rally S which support a production of late 1970. No apparent explanation for the series 2 nose and looking at the car, there's no real evidence of it being replaced at a later date. All looks straight and equally old/dirty. The front body extensions that the subframe is mounted to below the radiator are not bent so if its been damaged, its well repaired.

“either someone replaced the front end quite early in the mistaken belief that modernising would improve the look or it left the factory that way as some sort of transitional mix up.?”

Is Scarpia sure he’s posted this chassis number (001776) correctly with two 0’s after the 818360 chassis type?

Because unless he’s written the chassis number wrong, this is a very early 1.3S—not a very late one, as the chassis numbers ran from 818.360.001001 to 818.360.017827. If the number is in fact not 001776 (#776 off the production line) but is rather 01776x (one of the last +/- 50 from the S1 production run), then it’s a late 1969 car, which could easily be titled as a 1970, and could well be a transitional spec car with an S2 front end from the factory. If Scarpia’s got the chassis number correct as 001776, then it’s a 1968 car and there’s simply no possibility that it came from the factory the way it is now.


Brian
8227