A B20 Story

[Kevin MacBride]

This is a 4th series gearbox I worked on a few years ago. Not my own. someone had tried to unscrew the bearing/seal carrier, and not realizing it was LHT had thightened it instead, cracking the casing. A machinist friend of mine fitted a ring, slightly undersize and used a little heat to lock in place. You can see the tool I made to undo the castle ring. Made from a large socket.

[DavidLaver]

Have you met Tim Burret yet?   He'd be able to match linings to the drum for you and where you're at I'd suggest the sooner you meet him the better.   

Am sure Peter Harding or Omicron also.  Whatever the pretext I suggest finding a way to be "just passing" and dropping in on them as well.

David

[the.cern]

This Forum is superb, so much help and support out there, thank you everyone who has chipped in.

Yesterday and today I've made a little more progress, tempered by a little babysitting but it didn't interfere too much (pl. don't tell my daughter where her 6week old son spent Saturday afternoon !!)

Jim has had a lovely time actually putting things back instead of cutting things out. The offside sill is now looking as though it might even support the car !!!!! The jacking point is a carbon copy of the original and the wiring loom is now supported above the bottom of the sill to give more protection and protect it from weld heat. On dismantling, it was found that 3 of the wires were fused together where the plastic insulation had been melted, presumably by the heat of the original welding process.

The nearside front brake has been dismantled and generally cleaned up. Once again I have a cylinder that seems ok but with a broken spring so one more for seals only. I really will have to keep checking and keep an eye on the fluid level. The bearing oil seal has failed but not enough to impact on the shoes so I'll replace that and run those shoes for a short while. I now have just the offside front to dismantle, I hope no horrors there.

I have dismantled the clutch, not good! At first all seemed fine and I assumed I simply needed  to reline it. However, closer examination revealed 6 radial cracks in the pressure plate (I think that's what it's called), it's part no.43 on Tav.27 of Paul Mayo's Manual. Suggestions as to where I may source a replacement please. Also, following David's philosophy, I am tempted to leave everything else that seems ok well alone, which includes the bearings. Am I being too much of an ostrich here ?? Your advice would be much appreciated.

I'll attach some photos, I can't see the cracks in the clutch plate even though I know they're there !!!

Best wishes and thanks again for the support and advice.

                   Andy

[DavidLaver]

Tim would have an answer to what a clutch plate can take.  Mine had all sorts of little cracks in it that had me scared and he gave me the reassuring "they'll all like that" response.  Obviously a lot more reassuring when he's actually looking at it.  Yours might have the (using my imanation rather than this is a list of bad stuff) the "its about to explode" cracks or "when its cracked and then the rust has got in then its no good" cracks.

David

[Kevin MacBride]

My plate also showed what looked like little cracks. I had the plate lightly skimmed, and no further problems. The only other issue was a brass ring, inside the 'top hat' section of the plate. This had worn quite a bit (the clutch bearing runs against it). I fitted a new one, and no problems.
One little thing, if you are fitting a new clutch bearing, it it meant to fit 'one way'. Be careful not to fit it the wrong way, or it will collapse.

[the.cern]

Things change don't they!!!!!  I decided to remove the 50mm nut holding the release bearing (Jim made the 'socket'!!) and all seemed well until the bearing was removed ...... not good. What appears to be a thrust ring, part of the bearing, has disintegrated and is in 4 pieces, one of which was jammed in the bearing, although that still ran quite smoothly!!! Additionally, a loose thrust ring was found, intact but also in bad order. So, now I need a release bearing and that thrust ring and Kevin, please advise how I know which way round the bearing goes. Also Kevin, which side of the diff has the LH thread on the seal retaining ring ??
Given the state of the clutch components that I have examined to date I've decided that the ostrich option is not appropriate, so the whole lot will be stripped and bearings inspected minutely.

On a general note, is there available a schedule of torque settings for re-assembly of the car. I'm sure that many are specified for the major components, but are they published anywhere?

The attached photos show the state of the release bearing, I'm sure there will be more tales of woe (and expense) to follow.

Regards,

            Andy

[DavidLaver]

...I had to replace that bearing...

I got quite quick getting the clutch in and out trying to get it to work properly.  Am trying to remember the details.  Is there a felt seal that "regulates" (eghrmmm) the oil into that bearing?  Not enough it breaks up, too much and the linings get covered.  Mine had a modern sealed bearing and a sleeve to make up the difference to the old one.  It had a ceramic "puck" plate in it for a while as well - sort of okish but gave up on it for regular linings.

David

[Kevin MacBride]

I can't remember what exactly is written on the bearing, I think its the Italian word for 'push'. Its written on the outer ring on one side, and the inner ring on the other. The outer ring fits towards the inner part of the top hat, and the inner part faces towards the 50mm nut. I got a bearing from Cavalitto.
The LHT nut is on the left hand side of the gearbox. See my photo. Its the part that has the cast iron casting, bolted to the diff casing by 6 nuts/studs.
I once wrote an article on this for Viva Lancia some years ago. I found out the hard way, when I fitted the bearing the wrong way.....

[DavidLaver]

Another memory - as well as the excess oil through the shaft to the bearing there was also an oil leak out the gearbox housing into the clutch...

At least access is a dream relative to conventional cars - and back then all in a days fun in the BWE yard.  Rent for the ramp was a run to the sandwich shop and the occasional pickup/drop off to the tube station.

David

[the.cern]

Ahhh, David, the halcyon days of youth !!!!!

Thank you Kevin and David for your advice, always  gratefully received and appreciated.

I'll push on and meanwhile the shopping list gets longer !!!!!!!

                  Andy

[ncundy]

Hi Andy,
Did you get my pm with the offer of the springs? I'm wondering if I sent it as I haven't got a copy in my outbox.
Cheers
Neil

[Niels Jonassen]

While you are looking at the clutch remember to check if the plate is concave. Mine was, and it was virtually impossible to release the clutch completely because it bore on the outer circumference even with the clutch pedal fully down. If I tightened it so that it would release it slipped. 
Niels

[the.cern]

Niels, thank you for that tip, the plate on mine is definitely not plane and with the cracking that I have found I have a horrible feeling that I am destined for a new/another clutch, I presume I will be able to get one somewhere, a phone call to Ron Francis I think !!

In the meantime I am progressing as best i can elsewhere.

Best wishes,

                 Andy

[the.cern]

Whilst I am arranging to get the clutch to Tim and waiting to get prices for the brake cylinders seals I thought I would have a little crawl under the body and clean off the muck and underseal. What a b***** of a job that is !!!!!  To begin with a wire brush in a grinder is not suitable as the underseal is like a set tar and up to 5mm thick, so a narrow scraper has become the tool of choice. In some places a good push with the scraper results in a huge strip, complete with muck and bullets, flying off, usually into my face, whereas elsewhere the scraper stops dead and nearly breaks my wrist. I'm getting the hang of it now but it is tiring dirty work and I ache everywhere. I think lying under a car doing this is better than any workout in a gym !!!!!  The condition of the steel as it is uncovered varies tremendously, from horrendous rust to some areas where there is perfect paint and yet others where there has apparently never been any paint but the steel is in such good condition that spot welds appear as if they were done yesterday (see last photo) !!! Quite amazing.

I've still a long way to go, but can only manage about 3hrs a day and then have to move onto something a little less strenuous.

That's it for now, time for a little refresher !!

                  Andy

[ncundy]

A heat gun should speed things up for you. A few seconds to get it soft then it should peel off pretty easily. Wear gloves, goggles and have a bucket of water handy!