A B20 Story

[DavidLaver]

I don't think you need to be in any rush to get the shell painted, and having the axle(s?) all done would be really good progress.  Is the axle at home?  If that's impractical anything else to have on the bench at home?  I'm thinking of things like polishing handles or getting switches and lights to work.  "All progress is progress". 

You must have shelved that "critical path" project plan in about 1972.  For myself I seem to be following the "how can I make steps backwards" - tee cut the paint that will be stripped, paint the steel that will be cut out...

David

[the.cern]

Thank you for the thoughts David. I regret that 'project plan' is an oxymoron in the Tait household!!!!

I think your plan is not 'how can I make steps backwards' but more 'how can I stop nature taking steps backwards for me'. This makes your efforts very laudable and I wish I had thought to do it to both the Gussie and the B20 some 35 years ago !!!!!

Anyway, some advice please ........

1) Is it reasonable to reinstate the front axle and then tackle the bearings in the sliding pillars or should I dismantle and overhaul them before the axle goes back on the shell??

2) I believe that everything in the engine bay which should be painted should be black, but, please, what are the paint finishes for
                        a) front axle
                        b) rear axle
                        c) track rod and steering arm
                        d) all those linkage elements for brake, clutch, throttle, bonnet release etc
                        e) the engine bay itself ie inner wings, bulkhead
                        f) radiator and shutter assembly
                        g) transaxle support beams

3) Is there anything, other than the rocker covers that should have a crackle finish? Which is the best crackle finish to use?

4) What is the finish on the brake drums?

As I get further on there will be more and more questions. I do not intend to produce a car to concours standard, but if I am doing something then I would prefer it to be as original, unless there is a good engineering or safety reason for doing otherwise.

Thank you for your thoughts and I look forward to some answers.

                                                             Andy

[the.cern]

A rather disappointing lack of response to the above post, so let's see if I have any greater luck with this request for help.

I decided to tackle the sliding pillars whilst the axle was off the car, it just seemed to make sense. I will post some photos later. First task was for Jim to make what amounts to a giant G clamp to control the spring forces during the initial dismantling and to assist in reassembly. Then the fabrication of spanners to fit the four caps/nuts/sleeves that form the sliding pillar (three are required). These were made from 10mm plate with only a short 'handle'. MO, put spanner on nut, hit 'handle' with club hammer to release it. As  the threads are immersed in oil and have not rusted, once it is free, only minimal effort is required to undo it completely.  We were not sure of the procedure  and order for dismantling, but it is fairly self evident and everything came apart quite readily. Usual clean and inspect revealed that, as expected, the thrust bearings above the main springs were shot and replacements are being sourced, they appear to be a non-standard size!! Not a surprise!!  We decided to refurbish only the spring elements, not the dampers

Now a request for suggestions please ....  the main spring is housed within two tubes (part nos 12 and 13 of TAV 50 for anyone who has the parts book) one of which slides and rotates within the other. To keep out the muck and bullets there appears to have been a rubber seal on the top of the lower tube. Needless to say, there is little more than a smear of disintegrating rubber left now. So, any suggestions as to how to replicate the seal. All I have managed to come up with is to clean thoroughly the top of the lower tube, apply a bead of silicon sealant, clean and grease the upper tube and then slide that over the lower tube to mould the silicon bead into a interference fit seal. I believe that will work, even if only in theory and not in practice!! Does anyone have any other suggestions .... and also please, suggestions  for a product for what I have glibly described as 'a bead of silicon sealant'.

I hope that I will soon be in a position to update this thread with all the work that has been done but not posted. I must admit that Jim has been undertaking the vast majority of this whilst I have been distracted by other matters.

Best wishes,

                           Andy

[simonandjuliet]

Only just seen your August post (missed due to exrtended hospital stay !)

Look forward to pictures, however,re "silicon seal". You could try the famous tiger seal, it is polyurethane, remains flexible and if it doesn't work, you can cut it out again. Pretty sure it is oil resistant

I am just about to repaint my Appia rocker covers with wrinkle black, will let you know how I get on. On Aurelias , I think the HT lead covers , if you still have them, and the battery cover were also wrinkled

For the other parts, I would assume that they will be the same as the Appia (which has an Aurelia axle, steering box etc) and they are satin black

[the.cern]

Excellent, thank you Simon. That is a good start to paint finishes. I am pleased to say that I do have the HT lead covers and the battery cover. My recollection is that, whilst not perfect, they are in usable condition with an appropriate patina which I would not want to lose.

The now infamous tiger seal to the rescue again it would seem. I will definitely try it.

                                                            Andy

[Parisien]

Andy, not much help am afraid, I am very much hanging onto your coat tails!!!!

Per chance did you take a few photos of what you found etc?

P

[Niels Jonassen]

The top of the air filter should be crackle finish, too. I have succesfully used VHT Wrinkle Plus.

[simonandjuliet]

Prompted by Andy's question re wrinkle finish, I did a test on a rocker cover today, rather than repeat it all , here's the link :

http://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6258.msg47327#msg47327

And I used the same VHT Wrinkle Plus as Niels

[the.cern]

OK, VHT Wrinkle Plus it is !!!!!  I will have to check what needs this finish, it has been a while since I have seen many of these engine parts as they were some of the first parts to come off!!!  My recollection is a pleasant patina, but previous experience suggests that at least one part will be no more than rust held together by paint and hardened grease !!!!

Going back to the seal between the sleeves, parts nos. 12 and 13 of TAV 50. I have checked Simon's suggestion to use the ubiquitous Tiger Seal with U Pol, the manufacturers. They have indicated that this material slowly overtime absorbs oil and consequently swells up slightly. This makes it unsuitable for my particular proposal. I spoke to Martin at Omicron who was most helpful and suggested that most cars had dispensed with any seal at this point. The seal, of which I had found remnants, would most likely have been the original one which was an integral part of one of the sleeves and was not offered as a separate item. Therefore, after a nano second of thought, I have decided not to attempt to replace the seal!!

Omicron provided replacement thrust bearings, not the exact size of those found, but they fit and I am sure they will do the job. They are larger and appear more robust than the originals, so I am not anticipating any problems. the only problem is that the grease retaining cup of the originals does not fit, thus Jim has another little task to keep him amused over the festivities.

I am having a problem with my computer at the moment and cannot get this chromebook to post photographs so i regret they will have to wait, but they are being lined up ..........

Best wishes,

                              Andy

[DavidLaver]

Chromebook problems?   Maybe it would be better in a black wrinkle finish.

David

[the.cern]

If a black wrinkle finish will allow me to attach photos then I'm up for that!!!

This is an experiment, if it works there will be attached a photograph of the shell as it currently exists!!!  The whole of the underside and the interior is finished in Hammerite, a product I would not use again!!!!!

Wish me luck !!!

                     Andy

[the.cern]

Well, there's a miracle !!!

[the.cern]

A couple more photographs, if I can remember how I attached the last one !!!

One should show the underside finished in Hammerite (it will be finished in Schutz as the final protection layer!!).

The other two show the front axle, the first before dismantling and the second the springs themselves and associated parts.

                                Andy

[Parisien]

Good man Andy......looks as pretty as a picture.......

P

[brian]

I confess I did the underside AND inside of my Agusta shell in black Hammerite and 20 yrs on it still is pretty good. I agree not much fun to use but very good on my grit-blasted and phosphated steel.
Brian Hands