DavidLaver
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« Reply #300 on: 08 May, 2015, 09:04:02 AM » |
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David Laver, Lewisham.
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chriswgawne
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« Reply #301 on: 08 May, 2015, 03:51:40 PM » |
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And now Andy you have fun of removing the studs from the block!
Hours of pleasure I have found.
Chris
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Chris Gawne
Mobile: 07778 216552
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Parisien
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« Reply #302 on: 08 May, 2015, 04:06:09 PM » |
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Strewth Andy, thats looks like a lot of grief, but then again it is an Aurelia engine......hope you keep it moving on!
P
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Frank Gallagher
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the.cern
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« Reply #303 on: 08 May, 2015, 04:35:49 PM » |
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I forgot "our Aurelia" had bolts not heads. It worked really well. My story is having a head on and off and on and off trying to chase down what turned out to be a water leak through a crack/pin hole in an inlet port. I fixed it with a bit of wire and araldite which held until Tim Burrett got it welded.
The job itself I can remember like it was yesterday. What I struggle to visualise is the garage at the side of the house clear enough to run a full size car in and work on it.
David
Is this head bolts thing a common modification? (Simon mentioned it) What are the advantages? I presume it makes removal easier as the bolts are turned thus breaking up corrosion deposits. Are stainless bolts advisable, does that reduce the corrosion problem? Copper-slip? So many questions that really are about re-assembly and I have only just started to strip it!!!!! As for a clear garage, there are occasions when that happens, but the majority of the time ..... not a chance!!!! Andy |
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Charles T
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« Reply #304 on: 08 May, 2015, 07:34:33 PM » |
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Excellent photos and a very impressive result. It just goes to show how the simple application of leverage in a careful way can produce the desired results. I can see that a lot of time must have gone into this, which must have made it all the more satisfying when the head came off.
Good luck with the other side!
Charles
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the.cern
Permanent resident
Posts: 1494
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« Reply #305 on: 08 May, 2015, 07:57:17 PM » |
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And now Andy you have fun of removing the studs from the block!
Hours of pleasure I have found.
Chris
Any time that you want to pop down to help you are more than welcome!!! It seems to be a given that all the studs should be removed. Intuitively this seems right, but are there any hard and fast reasons why this should be. Obviously, if the block needs to be skimmed then there is a damned good reason. Some of the studs themselves are structurally unsound and therefore these must be replaced. Is there an overarching reason for wholesale replacement? Andy |
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the.cern
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« Reply #306 on: 08 May, 2015, 08:23:19 PM » |
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So, the other side .... that was the task for today.
Emboldened by yesterday's success, but fearing that this side, the right-hand side with the missing core plug, would be in worse condition than the left-hand side, it was with some trepidation that I set the puller on the head his morning. Things seemed to be going my way, there was less resistance to movement, the pushing bolts required less effort and the reluctance in the rear inner corner found on the left-hand side was absent. Then, with the head lifted by some 30mm it was possible to get a good view of the tops of the cylinders, no piles of white powdery deposits that were apparent yesterday, maybe this would not be too bad after all. At least I could now hope for no worse!!! Having more confidence with the second head, it was quite quick work to get the head 75% of the way up the studs. Thereafter it has to be a hammer job, but impact is on the pulling plate not the head itself and the risk of damage is minimised. Jim was there to help yesterday, but today I was on my own, so trying to balance the upwards force along the length of the head was not easy, but suddenly it was off and, to my relief, I did not drop it!! Now the surprising news, the cylinders and head appeared to be in sound serviceable condition. Closer inspection later revealed that the middle liner and piston might have to written off but the other two cylinders look quite redeemable. The head looks as though it should all be standard work, I will have to check the valves, valve guides and springs to see if they are within tolerance. Then I will be able to start writing the shopping list!!!
Photographs, RH block, RH head, block with both heads removed
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the.cern
Permanent resident
Posts: 1494
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« Reply #307 on: 08 May, 2015, 08:37:48 PM » |
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A cautionary note ....
If anyone decides to remove a head using this system I think a good way to start making the puller is to borrow a cylinder head. This should be used to set out the drillings necessary for securing the plate to the rocker gear and those for the head studs. The longest and most tedious task in my endeavours was the setting out and checking and checking and then correcting the cock-ups!!! Once made, the puller is so simple in use. One other thing, do not underestimate the length needed for the pushing bolts. These must be threaded their whole length. I used 70mm bolts, 120mm would have been better and would have given a controlled push to the head until it was off the studs thus obviating the need for the hammer. Yes, the hammer worked, but longer bolts would have been better!!
Andy
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DavidLaver
Permanent resident
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« Reply #308 on: 08 May, 2015, 08:43:14 PM » |
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Good to have a sturdy stand when hammering? Glad of the brakes on the casters?
When at Brooklands I was looking at the aero engine stands with you in mind.
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David Laver, Lewisham.
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John B
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« Reply #309 on: 08 May, 2015, 08:58:40 PM » |
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. Are stainless bolts advisable, does that reduce the corrosion problem? Andy I think it's probably not advisable to use stainless steel studs or bolts due to their different tensile strength. Torque settings would not be the same ....... I seem to think stainless steel is not as strong as carbon steel due to a lack of carbon I suppose. |
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1961 Appia S3
1969 Fiat 850 Special
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Niels Jonassen
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« Reply #310 on: 08 May, 2015, 09:43:57 PM » |
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Congratulations. This is an intelligent way of solving the problem. Applying a steady pull is always preferable. I will not doubt for a second that all studs will have to be renewed. A can of cooling spray may prove helpful when you remove them. In your case I would examine the threads in the engine block. It is not difficult to fit Helicoils.
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the.cern
Permanent resident
Posts: 1494
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« Reply #311 on: 08 May, 2015, 10:52:45 PM » |
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Thank you Jon and Niels. All this information will be salted away for rebuild time!!!
Andy
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fay66
Permanent resident
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« Reply #312 on: 09 May, 2015, 01:31:11 AM » |
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And now Andy you have fun of removing the studs from the block!
Hours of pleasure I have found.
Chris
Any time that you want to pop down to help you are more than welcome!!! It seems to be a given that all the studs should be removed. Intuitively this seems right, but are there any hard and fast reasons why this should be. Obviously, if the block needs to be skimmed then there is a damned good reason. Some of the studs themselves are structurally unsound and therefore these must be replaced. Is there an overarching reason for wholesale replacement? Andy Andy, Congratulations on getting the head off with a strong dose of brainpower and logic involved, besides muscle power.  I would have thought it should be a given that the studs be replaced, there is no way of knowing if the years and corrosion have affected the strength of them, I have never reused head bolts, although I have left old studs in and reused them; but in this case it would be good practice, and for your peace of mind for the future,to 'bite the bullet'. Brian 8337 |
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
Dedra Technical Adviser
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lancialulu
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« Reply #313 on: 09 May, 2015, 05:39:29 AM » |
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Fulvia experience (alloy head on cast iron block) is Lancia used a high grade steel bolt - probably 10.9, then Fiat downgraded to 8.8 and the wise use 12.9 (cap bolts) to provide head gasget seal with higher torque down. Lower grade bolts have been known to lose their heads and stick on their shafts if the engine has been neglected. In your case Andy, "neglected" is an understatement! Well done for such an ingenious removal. I hope the corrosion that has taken place has not totalled the chance of recovering the engine. I doubt it would get to such a neglected state again so bolts could be a good idea. btw Fulvia had two bolt slightly thicker to act as dowels to position the head correctly so no clearances on these!!
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
Lancias:
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia Sport 1600
1983 HPE VX
1988 Delta 1.6GTie
1998 Zeta 21. 12v
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the.cern
Permanent resident
Posts: 1494
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« Reply #314 on: 09 May, 2015, 06:26:52 PM » |
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And now Andy you have fun of removing the studs from the block!
Hours of pleasure I have found.
Chris
Any time that you want to pop down to help you are more than welcome!!! It seems to be a given that all the studs should be removed. Intuitively this seems right, but are there any hard and fast reasons why this should be. Obviously, if the block needs to be skimmed then there is a damned good reason. Some of the studs themselves are structurally unsound and therefore these must be replaced. Is there an overarching reason for wholesale replacement? Andy Andy, Congratulations on getting the head off with a strong dose of brainpower and logic involved, besides muscle power. I would have thought it should be a given that the studs be replaced, there is no way of knowing if the years and corrosion have affected the strength of them, I have never reused head bolts, although I have left old studs in and reused them; but in this case it would be good practice, and for your peace of mind for the future,to 'bite the bullet'. Brian 8337 Are you sure I should replace the head studs??? They cannot be that bad surely ...... or maybe they can .... Andy |
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