B10*2283

[LANCIA]

Buongiorno chris , avrei bisogno del tuo contatto  e- mail.   Grazie    (   Da Lancia  LMC)

[williamcorke]

The rolled rims are known to corrode from, the inside. However, I have found that the rolled edge did not corrode. The corrosion was along a line further down the rim, in line with the hole for the tube valve. I suspect that water gets in at the hole and then seeps along the rim.

For those who are interested... the cross-sectional drawing below (credit to GG's Lanciaaurelia.info website) shows the construction of the rolled-rim wheels. Niels is right, in my experience, that the corrosion starts in the well of the rim where the rolled-over rim is welded back onto itself. Water sits between tyre and steel with the usual destructive results. Abrasion between tyre and wheels helps remove the protective paint layer.

You could drill, as Stanley suggests, waxoyl and fill the filling hole. But given the kind of usage our cars get, I suspect that a (perhaps) bi or triennial removal of tyres to inspect rims and repaint if necessary would be adequate. Or a longer gap if you don't go out in the rain. Or wash your car!

[GG]

On the wheel rims - One set of rolled rims here is without corrosion, but with webs slightly out of true (from years of carrying weight). Its hard to true them up - had the same problem years ago with Appia wheels, and had to hunt for new ones. For the Aurelia, found a set of Borrani steel wheels, almost identical to factory originals, still weighing 18#, but  seem a bit more stout in the center. So check for true before going too far on corrosion or re-rimming. I seem to recall something like needing around .010 out of alignment as a good limit, and the stock wheels were coming in around .030-.050", although those numbers might be off....

On the shocks - wasn't aware of any adjustment to them for rebound or dampening, just clean them, put in new felt (I think that was done but it was more than 10 yrs ago...), and new silentblocks . One had a slight clunk, needing a new silent block, and then had a bit of internal noise, that went away with more use. Have been quite happy with the factory originals, although they make a wee bit of "parts moving" noise if there are a lot of bumps. Nothing distracting, just to know.

[Niels Jonassen]

I used old Citroën wheels for the Aurelia. It gave the machine shop some trouble because the rims tended to X when removed from the wheel. However, they got it right, and I was quite impressed when we balanced the wheels with the tyres fitted.

[Parisien]

Can only see one for sale currently in France , though not sure if this is indeed a pre-war wheel of if different from post-war wheels

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jante-TRACTION-CITROEN-avant-guerre-1934-36/302581253144?hash=item46733f8418:g:Yk0AAOSwAC1aIZOx

Though this one looks more correct (from my memory circa 1995!), so erring towards the wheel above being more likely to be pre-war.

https://www.citroen-traction-avant.com/en/shop/article/200.001/Rim_fully_closed

Job lot in Paris at a decent price!!

https://www.leboncoin.fr/equipement_auto/1323604582.htm?ca=12_s


P

[williamcorke]

Making some real progress now and the rear transaxle is built up with brakes and pot joints on and fluids in. Ready to put back on the car (will need a helper for that, as I don't have a proper lift).

[Parisien]

Excellent Will, bar brake linings, seals, pot joints and sundry items did you have anything else to do to the transaxle? Any further on with the wheels?

P

[DavidLaver]

Playing devil's: perhaps getting the box back in is the excuse to get a proper lift? 

[williamcorke]

@Parisien Didn't have the transaxle apart. Just flushed and with new oil. It's low mileage so I'll find out once the car's running if there are any issues. At least I'm becoming more of an expert in how it all goes together. Pot joints needed some new needle rollers, otherwise just cleaning measuring and reassembling  after 50 years in repose (the car, not me).

I've not done any more on the wheels. Concentrating on services/mechanicals at the moment, but will need to address them before long.

@DavidLaver A good suggestion and I will install one at some point, but there will need to be quite a lot of clearance and groundworks done as the old concrete floor will have to be broken up - at least in the area the lift will go if not all the way to the walls - to give a secure base for the post bolts.

[williamcorke]

On the question of adjustment, I've been poring on Tav. 54 and am wondering if the adjustment you referred to earlier is performed by removing the big covers at each end of the damper body, to get at the bolts behind. If this is the case, how can you tell which is bump and which rebound, and what direction to you turn them to stiffen or loosen (clockwise to increase damping, anti-c' to decrease?)?

On the subject of the Lancia-made rear lever-arm dampers...

My speculation of a few weeks ago (quoted above) was incorrect. The adjustment is via the 'tab' seen bottom right in the photo below:



On my dampers the adjusters differ from each other in detail design. One has a screwed-on cover, the other no provision for one. One was seized (the one without a cover, unsurprisingly) but I freed it yesterday. Removing the adjuster assembly, I discovered that the new damper oil I had put in was now black! So both dampers have now been flushed out and refilled...

The adjustment mechanism: the tab winds in and out a conical head (a bit like the idle screws on a Fulvia's Solexes) which acts to restrict oil flow in a progressive way. There's about 2 full turns from fully in to the outer limit. Both side's adjusters are conventionally right-hand threaded (useful to know if they are seized). When fully 'in', the lever arm becomes very hard to move - in one direction, not the other - so fluid flow is definitely being controlled.

From the symmetrical shape of the body of the damper it seems likely that a second adjuster assembly (brass housing and steel cone-headed, tabbed adjuster screw) could also be fitted opposite. I presume one side would contain oil flow for compression, the other for rebound. Without swapping the adjuster over to the other side to see if this affects the lever arm I can't tell you for sure.

Unusually, the Tav (below) is unhelpful as the adjuster (9) is described as the body of the damper and the drawing shows a different component (no cone). Lancia probably modified the design; what a surprise!

[brian]

I am sure (as much as a retired medic and non-engineer is likely to be!) that you are right in the ability to change the handed-ness of the shock absorbers. I am am overhauling a pair that were both LHS but am reassembling as mirror images so watch this space.

[lancialulu]

On a related subject I have written a snippet for Aurelia owners regarding droop of the rear suspension beyond the extend-ability of the drive shafts.

In essence when I recently changed my pot joint boots (precautionary as the had started to perish in the folds). I found on max droop that the drive shafts were binding. On my car B12 (so 4th series de dion axle config) there are telescopic shockabsorbers that act as droop limiters. These have some adjustment where they are mounted onto the axle/rear spring. I only needed c5-10mm less droop for everything to rotate freely. Interestingly I had the same problem on my Strato's replica.... Not sure if you can manage droop on pre De-Dion Aurelias but something to check as will wear out the universal joint if the car goes to max droop while travelling....

[williamcorke]

Today I had been planning (with the assistance of Frank - Parisien, thanks for offer of help Frank) to attach the transaxle to the underside of the car. But at 6.30 pm yesterday I spotted a small puddle of hypoid oil on the floor beside the workbench the unit was on, and further investigation showed there was a slow leak of oil coming out of the input shaft (correct name?) housing.

I have had the unit sitting on a bench for a month or so, with oil in both the ‘box and pot joints, checking occasionally for leaks. There was a small puddle I noticed a couple of weeks ago, which I thought was spillage from when I filled the thing. But no! The puddle had reappeared and - given that the oil was coming through right by the clutch plate - had to be sorted out.

You can see a drop of oil in the first photo, below the input shaft splines.

Inspection of the relevant Tavola, 25, suggested that part 12 was likely to be the culprit.

So I set about dismantling things this morning. Once I'd worked out how to remove the locknut that holds the input shaft splined item (that the clutch plate meshes with) without the special tool you’re supposed to use, and without butchering the nut, and with the housing’s 10mm retaining nuts removed - and with the new oil drained from the unit of course - it was surprisingly easy to take off the clutch cover unit to reveal what you see in photos 2 and 3. Lovely oily gears and exquisite machining...

The collar tube you see in photos 2 and 3 is the piece that is supposed to seal against the failed seal. It seems as if this collar is reversible and in fact has presumably been reversed before as there's a polished line on the machined end at the front (it's the rear that seals).

The oil seal came out OK, rubber as hard and brittle as could be, no wonder it was allowing oil past. i've ordered a more highly specified one with a double seal lip (with garter spring) rather than the old single-lipped one. Conveniently, the old was was marked with its dimensions - 47x28x10.

Better to have a slight delay in proceedings now than to find yourself with an oil-soaked clutch plate later on...

[lancialulu]

Good work. Is not the front of the tube sealed by 27 from the tavola? As the photo of the housing seems to show 2 seals?

[lancialulu]

Hi William

sent you a PM.

Tim