I'm a convert to Fulvia Berlinas

[DavidLaver]

A week or so ago I went to collect a book from Richard Fridd and came sooooo close to coming home with the Berlina he has for sale as well.  What a delightful machine!!  

Most, and I'll confess some previous guilt here myself, don't get passed the looks.  I think time has done them a lot of favours in that a three box saloon is now a very unusual sight.  It is also a fact that in the metal there's a lot more shape to it than in a photo and the details are lovely.  Alas I didn't take the photo to show it but the wing line has quite a rise and fall. The doors roll in below the glass, the upsweep to those crisp front and rear wing lines is cute, the chrome just right.

Inside its huge.  They're proper five seaters with really decent rear legroom.  Seats are great, everything to a really high quality.  Its a lovely place to sit.  The boot is massive.

Underway the ride is remarkable.  Three leaf springs?  We went in a mid 1980s Mercedes estate and no friends have a more comfortable car than ours but that Fulvia was a wonder.  Not only did it ride well but very little roll and great grip.  Very quiet and refined.

As to this example its just a bit too scruffy for us and I really can't have another car I look at and see a to-do-list. For me it has GOT to be a jump-in-and-use car.  However Richard has done a supreme job at UNDERselling its condition and the work he's done...  Aside from sills and floors he's also done the front footwells / rear mounts of the front subframe and beefed up and cleaned out the subframe.  The suspension bushes we knew about but not the CV boots and rear handbrake and a new exhaust - and he's done the rear springs and the shocks are all fresh.  It starts easily, ticks over at about 400rpm with no clatters or rattles, quite the most refined Fulvia engine I've ever stuck my head into.

So what does it need?

Richard's own plans were to wait for some doors to turn up.  I came straight home and found several on Subito in Italy including a set of four in the same colour (I did say I came close to buying it...)  All the same I'd have a go at reskinning them myself.  Its never going to be a perfect car and those door skins have to be the easiest bit of classic car panel work ever.  The frames need a bit of work but not as bad as expected.  The doors hang well and fit nicely and open and shut perfectly.

He'd considered getting the rear arches done locally but having seen the quality of rear arches on Alan Murphey's car his thought was to see how much a pair of those would cost.  Maybe they're not quite the same on the earlier car but they'd be close.  I'd do the same, but I also wouldn't be ashamed to get it close with what panel beating I could do and make up the difference in filler.

The original paint isn't bad at all.  It was dirty when I saw it and everyone has their own standards but to me good enough.  The new paint on the new-old-stock wings he's fitted is a good match but I'd rub it back again on the wing tops and bring it to a better finish.  As it stands its orange peel and random orbit sander marks.  That would just be time and elbow grease.

The front seats are thought to be ex-Rover and match very well.  All the same I'd chase the front seats in the spares car that supplied the back seats to have it correct.  To me the car deserves that.  Other than a window winder needing a circlip and clean out one rear winder mechanism to get it running smoother nothing else to do.

It's got budget tyres on the back and old ones on the front.  The MOT man was happy but given funds Richard would buy another budget pair to match.  The 155 Michelins XAS is about 150 each but I think there's a decent 145 Bridgestone people put on the S1 Coupes at fifty quid a corner and that would be my instinct.

So there it is - almost a year left on the ticket - tight and on the button - you just need to accept the condition or have the resources to sort.  

Alas just a bit beyond me time-wise at the moment  

David

PS - The one at Richard Thorne's has sold...

 

[fay66]

I used to sing an old Negro spiritual back in my youth, part of which was "Praise the Lord I saw the light"
and indeed Fulvia Berlina's are a revelation to the uninitiated, and well worth considering.
Add scarcity into the equation and it could well be the Berlinas comeback from the wilderness after taking a back seat to their (Granted) prettier sister the Coupe, although "beauty is said to be in the eye of the beholder".
I reckon that in the UK all told there are probably only about a dozen roadworthy examples of series 1 and 2 combined, and possibly another half a dozen that might make it back on the road, so it's really a case of grab one before they are all gone, at least in RHD form, and in the UK.
you'll certainly pay a lot more on the Continent for a nice LHD example, and even those needing work still command reasonable money.
I've been checking to see if there are any differences between series 1 and series 2 wheelarchs, checking the Tavoli reveals that both series take the same inner wheel arch assembly, you can't check for a part number for the outers as they are part of the complete bodyside pressing, and I already know that the main difference is the gap between the rear window and the boot lid, which is greater on series 2 than series one, as this allowed a bit more leg room in the rear on series 2.
My 2c should be on 155 x 14 x 80 but as I couldn't get these when I put "Fay" back on the road so I fitted 145 x 14 x 80 Firestones, they do tend to squeal it bit when trying hard, which I suspect wouldn't happen on the 155's, but I've had no trouble with the Firestone in 13 years of them being used.

Brian
8227

[DavidLaver]

There are some lower profile 155s, typically biased towards long life and low mpg rather than grip. 

The other option is to go up a size and Peter Baker told me he had no wheel arch clearance problems on 165 Mud & Snow on the Monte. We know that would be at full compression, extension, steering lock and lateral-G.  He used standard rims, springs and dampers and had a LOT of fun throwing it about.  All the same I'd go narrower and avoid the body roll. 145s don't sound like much tyre for the weight but I bet it would be as lovely as an S1 Coupe on them. 

Another problem the Berlinas may have had is a negative write up in LaLancia, at least in my (I think) 2nd edition.  Contempory road tests are more positive, when I went to read them surprisingly so.

David

[fay66]

There are some lower profile 155s, typically biased towards long life and low mpg rather than grip. 

The other option is to go up a size and Peter Baker told me he had no wheel arch clearance problems on 165 Mud & Snow on the Monte. We know that would be at full compression, extension, steering lock and lateral-G.  He used standard rims, springs and dampers and had a LOT of fun throwing it about.  All the same I'd go narrower and avoid the body roll. 145s don't sound like much tyre for the weight but I bet it would be as lovely as an S1 Coupe on them. 

Another problem the Berlinas may have had is a negative write up in LaLancia, at least in my (I think) 2nd edition.  Contempory road tests are more positive, when I went to read them surprisingly so.

David

David,
I've bought a secondhand good set of 165's to put on "Fay" when the 155's wear out but I was a bit worried that she would then be over tyred on them, I've been after a spare set of steel wheels for some years so I could mount and try them, but so far no luck, but I've never felt that she wasn't happy on 145's.
I'd agree, there were some really positive writeups at the time that were generally full of praise for the Berlina particularly the 2c.

Brian
8227

[chriswgawne]

We ran Jacky's 2C on 165 XAS's in the 70's which made it a real Q car when cornering. The rear view mirror and rear screen in the car were large enough to see the expression on the following car driver's faces when they tried to keep up!

[fay66]

We ran Jacky's 2C on 165 XAS's in the 70's which made it a real Q car when cornering. The rear view mirror and rear screen in the car were large enough to see the expression on the following car driver's faces when they tried to keep up!

Chris,
I like the sound of that ;

brian
8227

[Parisien]

http://www.autoscout24.it/Details.aspx?id=213735524

Looks interesting for one of the road to Damascus types on this thread................


P

[DavidLaver]

The one I can't take my eyes off is this one:

http://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4759.0

Wrong side of France, but closer than Italy.  There are a couple of others in France.  Once into Italy you can restrict the seach to just the north and turn up plenty of choice.  Two examples:
 
http://www.subito.it/auto/lancia-altro-modello-torino-42320020.htm
http://www.subito.it/auto/lancia-fulvia-berlina-2-serie-1-3-da-amatore-torino-37821327.htm

Back to Richard's car its right hand drive - how many of those left?  Its a car worthy of work.

Between the versions the S2 has more rear head and leg room, to me a nicer dash, and a bit more frisky with five speeds and the girling brakes.  S1 a bit more pretty, the delicious Fulvia four speed, and potentially a column change.  As for power the S1 GTE the same 87bhp as the S2.  The first single carb models had 58bhp, the 2C (twin carb) 71bhp, GT 79bhp.

Alas I've no time to chase dreams round the continent, even if I did I expect I'd spend it bringing Richard's car up to an acceptable level of cosmetics.

Anyway - when does the letter to Santa have to be in?

David

[chriswgawne]

When I was in my early 20's (in the early 1970's) and I had my first proper job, the only car for me was going to be something sporty and British with a large 6 cylinder engine and rear wheel drive. I looked at E types, TR's and even a Aston Martin DB4 for £875 finally settling on a 3 year old TR5.
To cut a long story short, whilst I thoroughly enjoyed the car it was not very well made or engineered and cost me so much in repairs to the body (rust) and mechanically (gearbox, back axle, fuel injection) that Jacky moved in with me to help pay for my flat. So a happy ending.
My next car was a Fulvia Coupe Srs3 which was a revelation from a driving point of view. It did everything quicker and with more control and precision than the TR5 (although with 3,000 mile service intervals it was certainly not cheap to run!). Certainly a case of less is more I felt.
And I think the same applies to Fulvia Sedans, particularly the earlier less powerful ones. There is a certain added satisfaction in driving more quickly with less power and like many models of Lancia, the early ones are more tactile and better overall packages than the later versions of the models with larger engines, better brakes etc. I am thinking here particularly of Aurelia's, Flavias, Fulvias and Flaminias.
Our lhd Fulvia 2C had perfectly adequate power I recall (and we towed a 20' boat+trailer with it as well with the only problem being lack of traction coming UP the wet slipway with the boat on the trailer) so I wouldnt obsess about necessarily having to have a GT or GTE.
There are always several good cars for sale in N Italy and having both always had lhd 'daily drivers' in the UK, Jacky and I would both say that lhd is not an issue.

[DavidLaver]

Sara's open minded to LHD as well so we wouldn't rule one out if it found its way to us

RHD still a preference.  Where we live its pulling out to pass a stopped bus which would be fine in LHD 80pct of the time but an occasional pain, if we couldn't see we'd just wait...  We're also no so far off the "learning to drive" stage and I think a Fulvia Berlina would be quite good school mistress, again RHD a mild preference.  Car parks are not the issue they once were with it tending to be "pay and display" rather than a barrier as-was.

As for power its wanting something that will hold its own on the motorway.  The way life is we're either going two miles or 200.  In my fantasy world we'd not worry about another hour or two from a slower cruise or take the back roads and enjoy "the journey" but that's the same world my four project cars inhabit.  Sara has strong memories of her MG Midget with 55bhp and how much less intimidating the world felt with 75bhp.

Christo's Appia has been a torture and it looks like its STILL out there to tempt me:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300714196678

A lovely thing but it would be my indulgance not our second car.  I could sort out belts and a heater but with 43.5bhp its going to be left at home too often.  A Fulvia Sedan gets double that power.  I tried to argue that an Appia will cruise all day close to its maximum (they top out at 80mph) but the advice is that I'd soon break rings and pistons.  The other "case study" I have in mind is Sara taking the kids to her mum, both from Sara's point of view and the reaction on arrival.  My guess is that she'd take the train in preference to an Appia but would hop in a Fulvia with enthusiasm. 

In the same way we went from a new Audi to a 20 year old Mercedes as a positive decision I can really see a Fulvia stacking up against something like a brand new Panda.  I just read the specs and the base Panda gets 54bhp, the 1200 60bhp and twin air turbo 85bhp.  Weights 1015kgs to 1110kg.  Interesting how even a 2C can still be a "traffic light king".

The other thing that's happend since seeing Richard's Fulvia is that I've opened my mind beyond the PF 1800 Flavias.  Somehow in the space of a month a Lancia 2000 had gone from "nahhh" to "I wonder what happend to that one that was advertised last month...?"   Still not convinced by the S1 Berlinas, S2 lovely, S3/2000s have benefits and a period charm all its own - but that discussion is for another thread another day.

David

[chriswgawne]

To add to the debate, here is a point of view from another longtime Fulvia owner and enthusiast. Not me I hasten to add but he makes valid points.

"My own personal opinion is that, first of all, you should buy a Fulvia for its current condition and not for its original specifications. However, the 2C is inevitably underpowered for mountain driving or motorway cruising. Much better is to get, if possible, a GT or GTE. I have worked on many of them and also driven them and I should say that in my view, the performance and comfort are very similar. The main disadvantage of the GT is that engine spares (pistons, rings etc) are less readily available than those for the common 1.3. The main disadvantage of the GTE is that it was produced in small numbers so it is difficult to find a good one and the price goes up."

From Jacky's and my  point of view, we specifically want either a pale blue or grey saloon with a cloth interior and I believe I am right in saying that this was not an option for the GTE.  Certainly I have never seen one. We have no particular feelings about column/floor change so when we find the 'right one' which has to also have a low mileage and ideally to have not been restored, I reckon it will be a 2C or a GT.

[Richard Fridd]

I have received a pair of panels to improve the rear end and will fabricate a lower rear panel once these are fitted.Here they are!

[Richard Fridd]

One now fitted

[fay66]

Richard,
it looks very nice.

Brian
8227

[Richard Fridd]

Thank You Brian,other side now also fitted.