Rally preparation

[Dino]

Any of you guys rallying a Fulvia?
I'd be interested in your thoughts on what breaks/ needs tweaking etc.
Also where's the best places for parts etc. Are things like sumpguards/lamp brackets available, or is it a case of making them?
Ta
Dino

[angelorange]

Several people you should  talk to:

Paul van den Berg :  A master at Rally and Race prep. Based in Haarlem Holland (lots of cheap flight to Schipol then 20 min bus ride) or ferry to Amsterdam with your car: www.verelancia.com

Peter de Wit: He has rallied Fulvia with Slowly Sideways in Europe. His car was rally prep'd by Paul : www.lanciaracing.com

Omicron in Norfolk: They can get or make every part you need: www.omicron.uk.com

Cavalitto in Turin: Great source for Fulvia parts in Italy: www.lanciaricambi.it

GIANI: The original Fulvia Tuners: www.giani.us

Lancia Fulvia Sport: Another good UK Fulvia specialist: www.lanciafulviasport.com

Richard Thorne: he has rallied and raced many lancias: www.rtcc.co.uk

Ian Jemison: Yorkshire based rally prep expert and superb with magnesium alloy wheel restoration: www.alloywheelrepairs.com

Have fun but be very careful about what you buy on ebay!

Cheers

Lukas
www.lukafoto.com

[Dino]

Thanks, that lot'll certainly get me started.
Yes, ebay's a funny old place for sure.

[ColinMarr]

Hello Dino,

Great that you are planning to compete with a Fulvia and that you have come onto this forum for advice. The responses you have got sound good to me, but can I also suggest that you visit the track-day at Goodwood on 31 March? You might then have the opportunity to see other Fulvias and hopefully sign up to join the LMC if you are still a non-member!

Colin

[Nick Pope]

Hello Dino

Road rallying or stage rallying?  It's worth reading carefully the relevant bits of the MSA Blue Book before you buy the car, to ensure you get a car that's eligible for the rallies you want to do.  In particular, Fulvias built after 01.01.68 are ineligible for night-time road rallies, as I found out to my cost!  Omicron have done most of the work on my car and I cannot sing their praises too highly!  Sumpguard had to be specially made (not by them - I had that done before I went to them) but it wasn't a big deal.  It may sound ridiculous but our biggest issue right now is window winders.  The navigator really does have to be able to open and close her window and winders with decent splines seem to be like hen's teeth!

Have fun - we do!

Nick

[Dino]

Hi Nick,
Night road rallies mainly, I'm navigating for my son in his Mini at the moment but I really want to get back to driving as well!

Yes, the pre '68 thing is a pain, hence my plea for a ser1 in cars wanted!
I can well imagine the window winder issue, that's really frustrating!

I see you're doing the East Anglian Classic - good luck with it.
In addition to the sumpguard may I ask what other mods and protection you've done to the car?

[Nick Pope]

We've got a road-use roll cage, competition seats and harnesses, a smaller steering wheel and a Brantz tripmeter.  Various map lights and a small door pocket on the nav's side.  Oh, and Philips 50% brighter bulbs in the headlights. I'm running 165/70s on the standard rims.

[chris]

  quote :- The navigator really does have to be able to open and close her window and winders with decent splines seem to be like hen's teeth!                                                                                                                                                                           I'm not sure if you are talking about the winder handle (interchangeable with S2 with slight adaption of retaining clip) or the mechanism itself, but unless your doors are fitted with the early type with steel roller location plates (as opposed to aluminium), then it sounds like you haven't been searching in the right farmyards(!).  Chris

[Nick Pope]

  quote :- The navigator really does have to be able to open and close her window and winders with decent splines seem to be like hen's teeth!                                                                                                                                                                           I'm not sure if you are talking about the winder handle (interchangeable with S2 with slight adaption of retaining clip) or the mechanism itself, but unless your doors are fitted with the early type with steel roller location plates (as opposed to aluminium), then it sounds like you haven't been searching in the right farmyards(!).  Chris

I'm talking about the winder handle.  Our events are punctuated by the clunk of winder handles falling onto the floor of the car.  I have a collection of old winder handles, on all of them the splines are pretty badly corroded and it seems this is one spare oart that no one has thought to manufacture.  Some of my handles have two slots and use a clip shaped like an omega, some have one slot and use a clip shaped like an R.  I have yet to find one that stays put once the going gets rough!

[Dino]

Thanks for the info Nick,
Regarding night events, did you know that theoretically you can do rallies that run under a 'Navigational Rally' permit?
You'd need to check with the organisers tho' as certainly down here in the South West, they tend to put in a clause saying you need to comply with K22. It seems the MSA are being a bit funny about it, although it's difficult to get any solid info at the moment.

[Nick Pope]

I think we can only run with our two twin choke carbs and (arguably) twin cams under a waiver as in K 22.17.1.  I don't see any other 'out'.  Though I have to say that on most road rallies and all twelve car rallies the scrutineering (if any) is so rudimentary that it is unlikely you would be prevented from running.  Speaking as an MSA-licensed scrutineer!

[Dino]

I think we can only run ..under a waiver as in K 22.17.1.  I don't see any other 'out'.  Though I have to say that on most road rallies and all twelve car rallies the scrutineering (if any) is so rudimentary that it is unlikely you would be prevented from running.  Speaking as an MSA-licensed scrutineer!

Ah well then, as a scrutineer I'm sure you already know that K22 only applies to events running under a Road Rally permit and NOT a Navigational Rally permit.
The 'out' on 12 cars (and indeed several quite well known NatB events) is that they run on a Nav Rally permit.

But I accept it is a confused situation;
For eg. the Rally of the Moors, that I marshalled on recently, is a Nat B event but runs as a 'nav rally' BUT they had an MSA scrutineer who's view was that "it's a Nat B event therefore I'm enforcing K22... I'm not here for my health!" I can see his point, no-one wants WRC spec. cars to be allowed for instance, but I do think he's actually wrong according to the rules.
Have you been given any guidance on this by the MSA?

[Dino]

Oops sorry about the formating above, I don't seem to be able to edit it 

Dino - join the club and you get to edit your posts! (see above) - Rodders

[Nick Pope]

K22 only applies to events running under a Road Rally[\b] permit and NOT a Navigational Rally[\b] permit.

Yes, that seems to be the implication of K 21.1 (d) but it's not really very clearly set out, is it?  The MSA hasn't covered this in any of the scrutineers' bulletins and I'm not inclined to raise it in case I get the wrong answer!

[chris]

  quote :-

I'm talking about the winder handle.  Our events are punctuated by the clunk of winder handles falling onto the floor of the car.  I have a collection of old winder handles, on all of them the splines are pretty badly corroded and it seems this is one spare oart that no one has thought to manufacture.  Some of my handles have two slots and use a clip shaped like an omega, some have one slot and use a clip shaped like an R.  I have yet to find one that stays put once the going gets rough!
 .........There is no need to manufacture window winders as there are plenty of secondhand S2 winders (in good condition) to be found and, although you are experiencing problems, there is nothing wrong with their design - sounds like you might have A/ worn splines on the winder mechanism spindle (protruding from the door). B/ unlucky enough to have only found  "window winders" with worn out internal splines and poorly fitting clips. C/ a winder mechanism that has a stiff action (the quadrant gear pivot and the pinion pivot can corrode if left standing - can usually be freed off by taking door trim off to gain access and soaking with penetrating oil). D/ a combination of A, B and C.   If you can't obtain a decent "winder" anywhere then P.M. me.  Chris