Flaminia Berlina

[blueboxer]

Hello all,  first post so go easy on me!

Rather like the idea of a Flaminia Berlina or maybe PF Coupe. Have been looking to see what RHD numbers were produced. Found a registry site which lists production http://www.circolodellalancia.it/contatti/lancia-flaminia-ww-registry.html but it doesn't look like the info is complete. My question is, are there any 2.5 Berlina RHD out there or indeed, did they actually make any? The link above shows 43 2.8 (assuming they mean the Berlina), and maybe up to 200 PF Coupe of different variants. I can see a few listings on the web for various lhd but would prefer rhd. As much as the Touring or Zagato versions are very nice, I do very much like the styling of the PF cars.

[frankxhv773t]

They certainly did make 2.5 Berlinas in RHD because Cristo and I broke one a few years ago. There wasn't a lot left to save and it may help my LHD Berlina in the fullness of time if I can ever get the resources to work on it.

There is a nice looking LHD Berlina for sale in Holland ( I think ) for 21,850 euros which isn't a lot of money in Flaminia terms these days. It has been on there for quite a while and was at 20,000 euros.

 http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/search-classic-cars/advanced-search-result/?makeId=836&keywords=flaminia&submitSimpleSearch=Search

Frank

[Sliding Pillar]

It is difficult to find exact numbers for the 2.5 Flaminia sedan, they made a total of 638 of the type 813.10 (LHD) and 813.11 (RHD), but no figures for the breakdown between left and right hand drive.
There were 599 2.8 Flamina sedans built, of which just 43 tipo 826.001 (RHD) were built.

For Flaminia Pininfarina Coupes the figures are:
2.5 (Single carb) tipo 823.01 (RHD) 148 built
2.5 (triple carb) tipo 823.03 (RHD) 37 built
2.8 (Triple carb) tipo 826.031 (RHD) 48 built

Hope this is of help.

[blueboxer]

Thanks for the replies.

I had a look online at the Berlina in Holland. Looks very nice in the pictures and at 20k ish is maybe worth a look. They also have a PF Coupe for restoration at 13k euros. 

Would prefer RHD though but I think I will go to Holland and at least look at the 2 cars there. 
I've also been emailing a chap in Italy who reckons that prior to 1960, it was not uncommon for Lancia to be made in rhd and stay in Italy? 

[Jay]

I am probably stating the obvious, but I wouldn’t get overly concerned if you can’t find a RHD car, a couple of hours in a LHD car and you just don’t noticed difference, plus with classics it doesn’t make any difference with insurance or it didn’t to me. I would take your time and view a few then buy the best you can afford, no matter what side the wheel is on.

[blueboxer]

I am probably stating the obvious, but I wouldn’t get overly concerned if you can’t find a RHD car, a couple of hours in a LHD car and you just don’t noticed difference, plus with classics it doesn’t make any difference with insurance or it didn’t to me. I would take your time and view a few then buy the best you can afford, no matter what side the wheel is on.

Yes, you're probably right. I don't think I'm going to have many to choose from so will undoubtedly have to consider LHD. I'm due to go to Holland soon so will have a look at the Berlina for sale there.

[chriswgawne]

IMHO Jay's comments about LHD cars being no problem to drive in the UK are valid...........as long as the car is reasonably quick.
My wife and I have always, ever since we first met over 40 years ago, had a LHD daily driver in the UK of some description and we swap between LHD/RHD here and in the UK without any issues. However once about 15 years when v tired I did try to go the wrong way round a roundabout at night near Brescia in a RHD 911! My co-driver put me right.

The other aspects to consider is the saleability and spare parts availability of the car when the time comes to dispose of it. With Lancia's, since the mid 50's the factory will always have made more LHD than RHD and so spare parts availability is better for LHD and regards saleability, you have Europe and the USA as potential markets.
Lastly, I can think of a number of cars which were designed as LHD and then the RHD variant was just not as good to drive - Lancia Delta (brake m/cylinder on left with a connecting rod across the bulkhead) and air cooled 911 spring to mind (driving position, partic for feet is much better with lhd).
Chris

[blueboxer]

ok, if I go down the LHD route and buy in Europe when I bring it into the UK, it will have to be registered and mot tested. No problem with that - I think the headlamps need changing and the speedo needs to display mph - presumably straightforward?
However, I read somewhere about needing to install rear seat belts if they weren't already fitted.  I hope that isn't the case. I know there is a lot of mis-information out there on the net so hopefully the age of the vehicle will enable it to get away without the rear belts.
One final question, if I import a pre 1960 EU Flaminia will it need an mot to gain UK registration as I understand pre 1960 are now mot exempt?

[lancialulu]

Suggest you phone DVLA. They are really quite helpful. I beleive I read somewhere in the new rules that you need to have an import tested before registration regardless of age but I may be wrong.

Tim

[fay66]

ok, if I go down the LHD route and buy in Europe when I bring it into the UK, it will have to be registered and mot tested. No problem with that - I think the headlamps need changing and the speedo needs to display mph - presumably straightforward?
However, I read somewhere about needing to install rear seat belts if they weren't already fitted.  I hope that isn't the case. I know there is a lot of mis-information out there on the net so hopefully the age of the vehicle will enable it to get away without the rear belts.
One final question, if I import a pre 1960 EU Flaminia will it need an mot to gain UK registration as I understand pre 1960 are now mot exempt?

I think you'll find its a case of if the vehicle never had seatbelts or mountings originally you don't have to retro fit them, my 1966 Fulvia 2c Berlina had Irvin lap belts when I found it in 1997 and no rear belts or mounting points, not wishing to take the chance of smashing my face into the steering wheel, even if the lap belt had kept my bottom half of my body in the seat, I fitted 3 point static belts in place of the lap belts.
If you really wanted rear belts it isn't a problem to get the mounting points fitted, and people like securon will supply a kit and also suitable mounting plares.
All vehicles in the UK had to have seat belt fixings by law in 1965, in 1968 the law changed so that all front seats had to be fitted with 3 point belts and all vehicles previously fitted with anything else, ie lap belts, had to be retro fitted with 3 point belts ( mine obviously wasn't as she was only taken off the road in 1976)
But although you had to have seat belts fitted by law you didn't have to use them real bit of forward thinking that!
It wasn't until 31st January 1983 that it became compulsory to use them
As my 2c was first registered 1/1/1966 the compulsory fitting of 3 point belts was still two years away, so it would seem that the first owner specified the belts.

Brian
8227

[Sliding Pillar]

I have asked DVLA about the need to MOT a pre 1960 car to register it in the U.K. They say it does not need to be MOT'd to register it.
One other change in the rules for registering imported cars is that from 15th April 2013 you will need to notify HM Revenue & Customs within 14 days of bringing a new or used vehicle into the U.K. You will not be able to register a vehicle until you have received notification from HMRC and paid any VAT due. See: hmrc.gov.uk/nova

[Lapsed Cesare Ferrari]

When I fantasise about owning a large Lancia saloon, and I do, what I have in mind is something like this, and if I were in a position to do something about it I would be kicking tyres in Bergheim before lunchtime tomorrow.

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C328080

Ciao a tutti

Cesare

[chriswgawne]

Beautiful! I wonder what the price is and how much work (if any) is needed to get it back on the road.?

[fay66]

As another Berlina fan, this is the one I've always wanted, beautiful, although I'm not sure about the colour.
A friend in Holland has restored a couple Berlinas and he was amazed at the number of parts used to make even small objects, seems Lancia never used 2 parts where four would do!
Brian
8227

[blueboxer]

I've been in contact with the seller of the Berlina link provided by Cesare.  I sent a list of questions through and got a quick reply. Trouble is, his replies were one liners and very general. "Yes, car is running", "Car needs technic and paint". So, at the moment, I'm none the wiser. I've tried to get him to be more specific as from the pictures, the car does look like it has a lot of potential. Maybe his English is not great.

I've also been in touch with a very large dealer in Holland and again sent a list of questions but got back a one liner answer - "yes the car is in good condition"!!!!! 

Another dealer in Holland has a Berlina which is listed as 1967 but looks much earlier to me (rear wipers, etc). It looks like it's being stored outside so probably needs a big body restoration and from the pictures, I can see the clutch pedal is down to the floor so am assuming the clutch has gone or seized.

I've also contacted a private individual in Holland, maybe it's the chap that Brian refers to as he has a fully restored 1957 Berlina listed on his website for sale but as yet, he has not replied.

There are loads of PF Coupes in Italy (including an Italian market RHD) but I really want a Berlina. Ideally, I  want either a minter or a car that could be used regularly for a few years before having restoration.