Everyday Appia

[simonandjuliet]

Is it just a van-thing ?

On the furgoncino you have to take the grill off, then the support and holes are there along with the dog on the front of the engine

(ps not the right starting handle !)

[mikeC]

I hadn't thought of taking the grille off 

But no, there is no provision for a starting handle, so it looks like it's a furgoncino feature...

[simonandjuliet]

Couple of maintenance bits this week, top up the oil , used about 1/2 - 3/4 litre in 2000 kms, not too bad considering how worn the guides are ! Rebuilt head being prepared for next year.

1/2 litre of water and redo tappets because one was quite noisy

Plus I need to replace a speedo cable inner which snapped on Monday .....

It is beginning to cool down now, so I will have to fit a thermostat for the winter. The engine is sensitive to running cool, ie it needs a bit of choke until it is close to running temperature (70°ish on the dial). The only problem is that the thermostat housing is seized solid and even on the bench (with heat) I couldn't free it without risking damage. It is the usual large brass nut in an aluminium head problem. I think Fulvia owners have the same problem .....

Question is, can you clamp an inline thermostat in the top, rubber hose, like my Renault 4's ?

[lancialulu]

Re theromstat assuming you have another one to replace it with the Fulvia treatment is to knock the center out so you can hacksaw (manual or with one of the airline jobbies in  2 quadrants carefully removing the sections and the main part will undo cleaning the tread.....

And yes the R4 theromstat is used as a bodge on Gammas not personally tried but it is one of those that is in the workround manual...

[nistri]

Keeping the end of the thermostat housing fully immerged (on both sides) in WD-40 for at least one week is known to help releasing the thermostat, Andrea

[frankxhv773t]

To repeat a currently popular rant; WD40 is not a penetrating and releasing agent. It is a water dispersal agent. What people are using is the solvent that carries the water dispersing compound. Once that solvent has evaporated it leaves the water dispersant which is a nasty gumming up agent. After a (considerable?) period of time it will stick together what you have been trying to release. A friend had a very serious motorcycle crash on a bike where a previous owner had used WD40 on the carburator components as a lubricant.

Using WD40 is therefore fine if you are going to dismantle something and clean all its' components but you might wish to exercise caution on something that you can't dismantle. Immersing it in warm paraffin might serve better or find a proper thin penetrating and releasing oil.

[John B]

To repeat a currently popular rant; WD40 is not a penetrating and releasing agent.
 Immersing it in warm paraffin might serve better or find a proper thin penetrating and releasing oil.

Many years ago, probably before WD 40 became a household name, I always used "Plus Gas" but somehow it just seemed to fall by the wayside and WD 40 took over as the product to use.
However a quick search on the web shows it is still out there ......

http://www.classic-oils.net/PlusGas-Dismantling-Lubricant

[the.cern]

To repeat a currently popular rant; WD40 is not a penetrating and releasing agent. It is a water dispersal agent. What people are using is the solvent that carries the water dispersing compound. Once that solvent has evaporated it leaves the water dispersant which is a nasty gumming up agent. After a (considerable?) period of time it will stick together what you have been trying to release. A friend had a very serious motorcycle crash on a bike where a previous owner had used WD40 on the carburator components as a lubricant.

Using WD40 is therefore fine if you are going to dismantle something and clean all its' components but you might wish to exercise caution on something that you can't dismantle. Immersing it in warm paraffin might serve better or find a proper thin penetrating and releasing oil.

Thank you Frank for this. I knew the issue regarding WD40 as not being a true releasing agent, but had not seen an explanation. Now I know! I always try to use Plus Gas, but had not been able to find it recently, so thank you John.

There are one or two things that still need dismantling, now I will be able to use the correct thing as first option. This is before moving to Jim's 'getting its attention' ie hitting it with a large hammer, before the get it very very hot stage!!!

                                Andy

[fay66]

To repeat a currently popular rant; WD40 is not a penetrating and releasing agent.
 Immersing it in warm paraffin might serve better or find a proper thin penetrating and releasing oil.

Many years ago, probably before WD 40 became a household name, I always used "Plus Gas" but somehow it just seemed to fall by the wayside and WD 40 took over as the product to use.
However a quick search on the web shows it is still out there ......

http://www.classic-oils.net/PlusGas-Dismantling-Lubricant


I've been using Plus gas for about 50 years now ( new tin about 5 years ago) and it's still great.

Brian
8227

[simonandjuliet]

Very interesting discussion around WD40 vs Plusgas - I use a lot (literally gallons) of WD40 for my cleaning mix so must get some Plusgas as well !

The Fulvia thermostat set up is different to that of the Appia so the casting - ie head - can't easily be soaked in an appropriate liquid. I will try my new heat induction coils (see furgoncino thread) on the head once it is off (scared that it might all go pear-shaped) but not sure how well it will work on brass anyway. Apparently it needs "ferrous" content. I will play on some other brass bits first.

Unfortunately my R4 thermostats cannot be squeezed into the top pipe so I will have to look out for something smaller - any suggestions ?

The photos for the Appia thermostat and housing come from my furgoncino engine and as you can see it too has had some butchery applied in the past to remove it.

Finally, the speedo cable inner has been replaced (broken at gearbox end). I have re-routed it to give a smoother curve out from the dash, bypassing the clips on the bulkhead. It is a bit awkward as it comes past the washer bottle and that is made worse if you then clamp it to the bulkhead.

Time will tell

[neil-yaj396]

I was going to suggest your 'Inductor', it looks a brilliant device, but as you say perhaps not on brass.

Sometime in the last year Jack Romano mentioned an 'industrial' releasing agent in one of his editorials, which he reckoned would shift anything? Can't recall it's name and it was very expensive I think.

[Mic]

Many years ago, when in I was in the Fleet Air Arm, we had a chopper (helicopter!) of another squadron ditch in sea water, in Mombasa harbour.   Not what you want to do as meant a write off.  The aircraft was recovered and treated for a long time with WD40, to fly again.  Impressive stuff.  As the Stores Officer in my last squadron before leaving the Service I made sure i left with a goodly supply of the stuff which lasted me for quite a time.  Now I have to actually buy WD40 which is sad after only forty or so years.  So if you drop your Appia in the sea you now know what to do.

[frankxhv773t]

Strangely my motorcycling friend mentioned in connection with WD40 being misused as a releasing agent is a military helicopter technician at Fleetlands in Gosport. However if you are in the habit of dropping helicopters in the briny a water dispersant is precisely what you need.

[Parisien]

Leading on from the "releasing agents" discussion, this article came from the ALR May 2015 edition. ( If there are any issues about copying/linking this please let me know!)


Releasing Rusted-on Nuts
Grahame Ward sent in this article. Ed.
You’ve probably been there. You are wrestling
with a rusted-on nut or bolt, the wrench slips,
you bash your hand, blood appears. So the info
below might be useful:
In the April 2007 issue of “Machinist’s
Workshop” magazine was published
information on various penetrating oils. The
magazine reports they tested these products for
“break out torque” on rusted nuts and bolts. A
subjective test was made of popular penetrating
oils, with the unit of merit being the torque
required to remove the nut from a “scientifically
rusted” bolt.
Average torque load to loosen nut:

• No oil used 516 foot pounds
• WD-40 238 foot pounds
• PB Blaster 214 foot pounds
• Liquid Wrench 127 foot pounds
• Kano Kroil 106 foot pounds
• ATF/Acetone mix 53 foot pounds


The ATF/Acetone mix is a “home brew” mix of
50/50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone.
Note this “home brew” released bolts better than
any commercial product in this one particular
test. “Our local machinist group mixed up a
batch, and we all now use it with equally good
results.” Note also that Liquid Wrench is
almost as good as Kroil for 20% of the price.
ATF/Acetone mix is best, but you can also use
ATF and lacquer thinner in a 50/50 mix. (ATF =
any type of Automatic Transmission Fluid).
This article is from Jaguar Jottings, the
newsletter of the Ottawa Jaguar Club.


P

[simonandjuliet]

Thanks for that !

I have tried it on the rear axle bolts on the furgoncino and the first bolt has started to move - combination of heat, air hammer/drift and releasing agent.

Unfortunately I broke my hand nearly 2 weeks ago (not on the furgoncino !) and can't do any more for a while......