How many 1600HF?

[FanaloneMan]

If you think working out chassis number was difficult...try working out how many variante 1016 engines they made!

Homologation rules stated that 500 examples had to be made for Group 4.

Weerninck's The Lancia Fulvia and Flavia states 610 engines were Variante 1016. Brian Long in his book ‘Sporting Lancia Coupes’ on p167 “…the 1,6HF was originally homologated with the variante 1016 engine”

So which of the 500 built before the car was homologated in October 1969 is anyones guess if indeed 500 were ever built.

I do know the 1st 100 (or so...can't really trust Lancia figures) 1,6 HF's were in Amaranto Montebello with the longitudinal stripes :-)

m!

[1,6 HF]

I do know the 1st 100 (or so...can't really trust Lancia figures) 1,6 HF's were in Amaranto Montebello with the longitudinal stripes :-)

Well, in my previous post I did warn us against dragging the colours into this. It's not just the '1st 100' figure that we can't really trust. It's much worse than that.

The 1.3 HF/1.6 HF brochure that the factory used to introduce the 1.6 HF (n. 8799353 - 10/1969) clearly mentions the classic colour scheme for the 1.3HF:
"The 1.3 HF version differs from the Rallye S coupe only for the lack of bumpers and for the painting schemes: Amarante Montebello with longitudinal yellow and blue stripe."

However, on the subject of 1.6 HF colours, it says this:
"Moreover, the 1.6 HF coupe is supplied in the colours: race red, La Plata red, Escoli grey, Jamaica blue and Longchamps bronze."
In other words, only one non-metallic color, Rosso Corsa--not Amarante Montebello. And no mention of stripes.

It only gets better from there. There are two 1.6 HFs illustrated in the brochure: a 'standard' HF in red, and a 'lusso' in grigio escoli metallizzato. The red 'standard' version has no yellow-blue-yellow stripe, and it has body-colored--not black--plastic wheel arches.

The 'lusso' has black wheel arches, and it has rear badging in the form of the standard chrome "Lancia Fulvia" at the right, but to the left is a horizontal bar with "1600 HF" in blue and yellow (in other words, the S2 "1600 HF" badge), rather than the chrome script "rallye 1,6 HF".

Now this could just be a matter of a introductory brochure not matching production reality (wouldn't be a first, that). Of course, this brochure wasn't issued until October 1969; 1.6 HF production had already begun. Indeed, it had already received its Gp. 4 homolgation, which presumably means that 500 (or so) had already been produced. Still, it's possible that the car in the photos (851447 TO) is actually a pre-production prototype, as the other official factory photographs I've seen all show stripes.

Must stop now; my head hurts. I'll just leave you with one further question: do the 'teardrop' bumper bracket covers mount large end up or large end down? About half the official factory photos show one thing, and the other half...

[fay66]

  I feel the Anoraks coming out

[ncundy]

The urban myth of "500 v1016's" was subject to much debate (and some of it informed too !) here and here. I can certainly guarantee that an absolute maximum of only 499 were built ! I have read somewhere on viva-lancia a quote from an ex-mechanic that less than 100 V1016's of all types were built (can't find it at the moment). Given the law of averages if 500 were built, one of every three cars should be a v1016. I believe outside of the factory cars only 2 genuine v1016's are known in Europe ?

[1,6 HF]

  I feel the Anoraks coming out

Hey, I gave fair warning about dragging colours into this!

We were having a perfectly civil, if utterly unresolvable discussion about production numbers, RHD, variante 1016, reference source reliability, &c. But someone just couldn't resist throwing down the old Amaranto Montebello gauntlet...

[FanaloneMan]

The thing that's bugging me...

I went to a Lancia meet a couple of weeks ago with a few Fanalone's present and they all had the colour on the cam cover wrong. I also saw the same thing happen in a copy of c&sc on a Jamacia blue(?) Fanalone recently? The blue is too dark! I've also seen a Final Edition EVO2 with the stripes the same wrong blue.

What I want to know is where are they getting this colour from?

Also, I've seen a Fanalone in what I think must be HF blue (the same light blue as the stripe) I was told that only 2 were made in that colour!

I've also heard the figure of 20 (approx) series 1 1,6HF's being produced in RHD but I couldn't verify this I'm sorry.

[FanaloneMan]

oh...

and I forgot to add

I think that Final edition red is Amaranto Montebello

:-)

...and why not!

[ncundy]

Anoraks, how very dare you !! I'm afraid I totally resemble that remark.

Must stop now; my head hurts. I'll just leave you with one further question: do the 'teardrop' bumper bracket covers mount large end up or large end down? About half the official factory photos show one thing, and the other half...

Casually flicking through my collection of fulvia books and manuals I note that 87% of the photos that show the said offending item have them fat end up, but the TAVS show it the other way up !!! Poke Yoke had obviously not reached Italy in the 60's, and the installation drg obviously did not have TOP & BOTTOM on it 

Now, if any other of us perfectly normal Fulvia owners could let me know what the script font is for the minor dials so that I can restore mine I would be eternally grateful, as I would hate that it destroys my ownership experience.

[inthedark]

I should think basic Latin would be OK or Times Roman of course
<
'the colonel'
(and yes I have a Fulvia as well as the Gamma's)

[FanaloneMan]

Oi...I didn't say that  ...   

Do you mean for the gauges Neil ?

I wouldn't use latin or Times Roman if I were you, you know, of course, the colonel is very very drunk! :p

You want to keep them in Italian I suppose as well? Couldn't you use the cluster from a series 2 car? I'm sure in Italy you could source a series 1 cluster if you wanted to, or maybe it's just me?

...And they do come up on ebay!

[1,6 HF]

The thing that's bugging me...
I went to a Lancia meet a couple of weeks ago with a few Fanalone's present and they all had the colour on the cam cover wrong. I also saw the same thing happen in a copy of c&sc on a Jamacia blue(?) Fanalone recently? The blue is too dark! I've also seen a Final Edition EVO2 with the stripes the same wrong blue.
What I want to know is where are they getting this colour from?
Also, I've seen a Fanalone in what I think must be HF blue (the same light blue as the stripe) I was told that only 2 were made in that colour!

Oh, great. We weren't digging the hole deep enough just discussing the body colours? Now you want to drag the stripes in as well? Fine.

First, the 'lusso' version of Fanalone was indeed available in Jamaica blue metallic. Second, the Integrale Final Edition isn't the 1.3 HF Amaranto Montebello; colors with the same name changed codes over time. My Glasurit swatch book has no less than 3 different codes for Rosso Corsa, depending upon what year your Rosso Corsa is from. Same with Blu Lancia.

But to our main point: I have no doubt that plenty of stripes are the wrong color (honestly, I wouldn't put a lot of money on mine being correct--either on the bonnet or the cam cover).

But the stripe color is NOT Azzurro HF--at least not according to any of those realible sources (LOL). Azzurro HF is Lechler 8073; the blue stripe is Lechler 8076. Naturally, I only have the Glasurit swatches (which of course don't cover the stripe colors circa 1969); I don't have the Lechler swatches. So I don't have a precise idea of how much darker the stripe is relative to Azzurro HF, but it's not the same--it's darker. Remember, the stripes aren't necessarily 'color-coordinated' with Lancia paint colors; they're (allegedly) the colors of the City of Torino.

I'll go back to my headache now.

Ed

[ColinMarr]

And I thought the carefully researched Argento Nevada colour, with a feint greenish tint, on my 1967 Fulvia Sport was seen by some as controversial – but now I understand how seriously these issues are taken. Wow.

Colin

[lee69]

Blimey, and I thought Ypsilon Kaleidos colours were complicated!

[fay66]

I warned you, Anoraks abound

[Dilambdaman]

I have a set of original Fanalone Homologation Papers, in Italian of course. I will happily lend them to any of you who can make a better attempt than me at deciphering the information.

I so love it when I'm informed that the stripe and cam cover colours on my Fanalone are wrong. In my defence, I researched them very carefully when repainting 10 years ago and gave up in the end so diverse was the opinion.

As far as I was and remain concerned, CUC 20H is one of the 20 - 30 right hand drive Fanalones produced, turned into a rally car by Barry Waterhouse and campaigned in his inimitable style. I'm also totally nonplussed by those who wag their heads and sagely inform me that large chunks of the bodywork have been replaced. I've seen the car upside down, stripped to bare metal, I've seen all the welds, it's had a hard life!

I've never been a stickler for total originality and certainly no concourse man. For me its all about driving as indeed it was for Tony Sieler (South African Lancia aficionado) when he drove CUC 20H last year.

And you so do not want to know what the much admired ochre colour on my Dilambda is!

Robin.