simonandjuliet
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« Reply #30 on: 26 January, 2015, 07:07:01 AM » |
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Wow !
MOT by the end of next week ?
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AmilcarCGS, ApriliaCabrio,S2Aprilia, 2xArdea c'cino,S4 Ardea, Appia c'cino, Appia f'cino,B20s4,R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, 65 Moke, 3xR60 Tractor, 2xToselli 78, Moto Guzzi Ercole,LR Defender, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino, Fulvia GT, RE Himalayan
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Parisien
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« Reply #31 on: 26 January, 2015, 10:59:53 AM » |
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Motoring on Andy..............so tell me, is the "repair" uncovered classified as a botched repair or a bodge, this is very important?!
One being someone not good at what they were at and the other to mislead a potential buyer?
P
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Frank Gallagher
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the.cern
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Posts: 1494
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« Reply #32 on: 26 January, 2015, 07:38:11 PM » |
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A botched repair!!!
I was given a good reference for the company and handed over the car in good faith. It was only recently that the full extent of the botch has become apparent.
One piece of good news, the outside face of the right-hand sill between the steering box and the axle appears to be original and in good condition!! Unfortunately the left-hand sill is obviously badly corroded and and will require a lot of tender ministration from Jim.
Andy
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the.cern
Permanent resident
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« Reply #33 on: 08 February, 2015, 08:41:54 AM » |
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Moving on .... Jim reviewed a set of photographs of a car with the outer sill skin cut away showing the construction details adjacent to the front axle, very helpful. The photographs also revealed likely problem areas, a great help in deciding how/where exactly to tackle my car. So, one happy Jim with a big grin and an angle grinder. I will get some photographs today, but suffice it to say that the initial proposal to lift the front of the car is fundamentally flawed!!! There is rather a lot of work to do!!!! It has become obvious that the car will have to go on the rotisserie, but how to attach it at the front if the sills are the areas that require work? Fortunately, some years ago, I visited Mike Raahauge who was/is working on his Gussie and at the time his car was on a purpose made rotisserie for work to the sills including the front axle area. I contacted Mike who has been most helpful. In a nutshell, the load of the front of the car is picked up on the engine mountings thus leaving the fronts of the sills free for repair. Easy when you think of it!! So, that is where we are now, Jim is fabricating the jig for the front and we will use the beam from the B20 set-up to pick up the rear of the car. This rear is sound as Jim rebuilt the whole area when the car was previously in the workshop. I have been preparing to remove the back axle, remove shock absorbers (2 new Silentblocs required, then) disconnect flexible brake pipe and handbrake cables. The propshaft is already off so now it is simply (I hope) a matter of the spring shackle bolts front and rear. More to follow, but attached is a photograph of the handbrake clevis pins, I have not been able to inspect the forks yet ......
Andy
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DavidLaver
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Posts: 4388
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« Reply #34 on: 08 February, 2015, 06:45:36 PM » |
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Hey ho...
At least you'll be able to absolutely 100pct mash on the brakes and trust it.
David
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David Laver, Lewisham.
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the.cern
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« Reply #35 on: 10 February, 2015, 07:58:19 PM » |
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Well, I have inspected the forks and, yes, you have guessed it .. they are oval!!
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the.cern
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« Reply #36 on: 10 February, 2015, 08:38:25 PM » |
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Just a couple of photographs to show the situation regarding the sills adjacent to the front axle mounting location.
The left hand sill, which appeared to be in a worse condition than the right hand one, has been cut open and the construction may be clearly seen. The bottom of the central diaphragm, with the large oval cut-out, has rusted away. The diaphragm, which is 2mm thick, will be cut back to sound metal and new 2mm steel welded in. Similar action will be taken with the inner and outer sill skins as necessary. The outer skins have rusted badly, hence the dodgy repairs previously carried out!!!! The photograph of the right hand sill which is still whole at the moment, shows the extent of the corrosion in this vital area. Jim has already identified some areas to be cut away .... and there will be more!!!!
When the B20 was on the rotisserie it became clear that it being static was something of a disadvantage. Therefore I have bought some box section steel which will be used to link the two separate rotisserie ends which, with the bodyshell, will make a rigid structure that will be supported on 6 castors. There will be one castor directly under each of the four legs of the rotisserie ends and another in the middle of the two linking sections to stop them deflecting which will help stiffen the whole assembly. Then it may be wheeled around to provide better access. If it all falls over I will blame Jim, who in turn will blame me!!!! I am confident it will not come to this (well, fairly confident!!).
Andy
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the.cern
Permanent resident
Posts: 1494
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« Reply #37 on: 16 February, 2015, 08:53:41 AM » |
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Mobile rotisserie time!!!
I ordered 6 castors rated at 250kg, bit of spare capacity there, and, as it turned out, about double the amount of required box section. The trouble is that you never know how the theoretical design will translate into practice and there is nothing worse than running out of materials when everywhere is closed!!!
The practice was not that far from the theory, but there were some interesting moments, such as when one end did a Bambi on ice impression and when we discovered one end was rocking on the rotisserie and the other end was supported by a jack which led to some to some alarming and sudden tilting of the shell!!
The photographs show the end result, I hope you can determine what is going on given all the other stuff lying around!!
Andy
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the.cern
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Posts: 1494
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« Reply #38 on: 16 February, 2015, 09:01:09 AM » |
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The photograph attached to this post justifies all the effort that has gone into checking the sills.
All this corrosion was simply patched over by the supposed professional with no effort made to find out how things worked and therefore what needed to be done .... just cover it over with new sheet steel, hammer it back behind the finished line and cover the whole lot with filler!!!!
I hope I have learnt my lesson!!
Andy
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Parisien
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« Reply #39 on: 16 February, 2015, 09:12:44 AM » |
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More progress again Andy.........shame the previous repair was a non repair in effect, anyways, you've a blog record of it now on this forum for the next buyer!!!!
P
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Frank Gallagher
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simonandjuliet
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« Reply #40 on: 26 February, 2015, 07:51:44 AM » |
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I really enjoy seeing restoration pictures like these. It gives real insight into the design and manufacturing thought - yes, they look lovely from above, but it's the underneath and normally hidden bits that are really interesting .....
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AmilcarCGS, ApriliaCabrio,S2Aprilia, 2xArdea c'cino,S4 Ardea, Appia c'cino, Appia f'cino,B20s4,R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, 65 Moke, 3xR60 Tractor, 2xToselli 78, Moto Guzzi Ercole,LR Defender, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino, Fulvia GT, RE Himalayan
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the.cern
Permanent resident
Posts: 1494
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« Reply #41 on: 26 March, 2015, 08:35:30 AM » |
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Although things have gone quiet on the thread work has continued apace.
The first photograph shows the LH sill at the front with the outer removed and the central diaphragm cut back to reveal the construction. Visible are the bottom ends of the two stiffening webs that radiate from the axle housing and which tie the inner skin to the diaphragm. Fortunately they are in sound condition and require no work. The whole is extremely strong, but, the steel skins being so close together and with precious little paint/protection inside the sill, it is no wonder the corrosion is so bad. Actually, I am surprised it is not worse! It appears we will be replacing the bottom half of the middle diaphragm and the whole of the outer skin, the inner skin will be repaired as necessary. This will apply to the front part of the sill, front axle to the front of the cruciform. From the latter point rearwards the inner skin stops and the sill is formed with just an inner and an outer skin
The second photograph shows the sill with the bodge repairs removed, I think there will be some new metal going in there!!! The third photograph shows the original bits of sill as removed. The smaller piece is all that remains of the bottom of the sill, whilst the larger piece is the outer skin. This had a line of holes and corrosion along the line of the running board, not at all surprising!!
More to follow!!
Andy
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DavidLaver
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« Reply #42 on: 26 March, 2015, 09:55:23 AM » |
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If I understand correctly there's an inner which you see inside the engine bay, an outer visible under the wings, and an inner membrane that runs about two feet back from the axle. The inner web has an aspect of corrugation to it. Have you a photo showing all of that inner web? (other than the bit you've cut off - maybe including that bit before it was cut off?) It also looks "open" on the right hand side.
Between the inner and the middle a pair of webs radiate off the axle housing.
With the base of mine having rotted out on one side and with some obvious crash repair work and patching I have an interest to be sure...
David
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David Laver, Lewisham.
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simonandjuliet
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Posts: 2559
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« Reply #43 on: 26 March, 2015, 10:48:12 AM » |
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I was wondering how you were getting on ..... Excellent and looking forward to more pictures. I love seeing how it was all made
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AmilcarCGS, ApriliaCabrio,S2Aprilia, 2xArdea c'cino,S4 Ardea, Appia c'cino, Appia f'cino,B20s4,R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, 65 Moke, 3xR60 Tractor, 2xToselli 78, Moto Guzzi Ercole,LR Defender, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino, Fulvia GT, RE Himalayan
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the.cern
Permanent resident
Posts: 1494
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« Reply #44 on: 27 March, 2015, 09:12:42 PM » |
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David,especially for you!!!!
Using your terminology, yes, you are exactly right about the three skins. This situation pertains from the front of the sill to the front of the cruciform. At that point the inner sill, ie that visible in the engine bay, stops and the sill construction is only two skins. The middle skin continues as the inner skin and the outer maintains its situation as the outer skin, visible down the length of the car as far as the front of the rear wheel arch. In the attached photographs there is a small piece of the middle skin omitted adjacent to the front axle location. The omitted piece allows the view of the stiffening webs radiating from the axle.
If you really want to check it you should visit. Jim is here both this and next weekend, I am here this weekend but will be away over Easter. I hope this helps.
Best wishes,
Andy
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