Fanalone restoration

[ncundy]

Some responses required on my behalf !
I cannot be at Race Retro - other commitments unfortunately but I do want to see your car (AGM?).

Thanks for the good advice Chris - my first full scale restoration, but I have been around restorations all my life and have owned Fulvias for 20 years, the only aspects I have never attempted before are a transmission rebuild (although my father has) and an interior re-fit so feel pretty comfortable about the rest. Regarding the dampers the worry (maybe needlessly) is that if the travel is too long - with the damper in the neutral position - in bump the damper internals become the limit rather than the rubber bumpstop, which can damage the damper and /or depending on the relative strengths bend the bottom arm, as you say. Spax confirmed this was a potential problem with the ones listed and William van der Sman worked with them to get to the new ones. He also suggests that the rear bushes were 10mm too wide - more than a tolerance issue ! The price is the same. So based on that it seemed sensible to go that way.
Thanks for the tips on the piping - it is these types of exchanges that I think are invaluable for the LMC and what I particularly value - good knowledge from someone who has done it before, written down for all to see and learn from. I may be in the minority but I see all the social banter as rather window dressing (important to the fabric but not the raison d'etre). It is this knowledge and advice which should make the LMC the "must join" for Lancia owners - so keep it coming !!

Regarding colour it is Grigio Escoli (metallic grey) -
Lancia codes:   
GL 94-LAN-200
DP 42606
IT 2.463.816
Lechler code :   
1361

This was the original colour and one of the small range of colours available for the Fanalone (see Altorio's book on HF's)

Thanks to all
Neil

[chris]

Dear Neil Thanks for reply, my turn again  ! quote :- Regarding the dampers the worry (maybe needlessly) is that if the travel is too long - with the damper in the neutral position - in bump the damper internals become the limit rather than the rubber bumpstop, which can damage the damper and /or depending on the relative strengths bend the bottom arm, as you say. Spax confirmed this was a potential problem with the ones listed and William van der Sman worked with them to get to the new ones.                                                                                     Yes, it sort of goes without saying about possible damper damage allthough unlikely as they are quite sturdy in that respect - you could be quite alarmed to learn that a great many vehicles of that era (60s-70s) with even vaguely similiar suspension, often relied on "the damper" to limit the downward travel of said suspension*, there being no easy (or inexpensive) solution to the problem.    * Fulvia included -  I have come across front dampers with the upper threaded post mount detached where it meets (and is electrically welded) to the top of the damper body.  quote:-  He also suggests that the rear bushes were 10mm too wide - more than a tolerance issue !                                                                                                                                               My memory hazy here (as already stated) but it certainly wasn't as much as 10mm then or I would have sent them back!
quote:-Thanks for the tips on the piping - it is these types of exchanges that I think are invaluable for the LMC and what I particularly value - good knowledge from someone who has done it before, written down for all to see and learn from. I may be in the minority but I see all the social banter as rather window dressing (important to the fabric but not the raison d'etre). It is this knowledge and advice which should make the LMC the "must join" for Lancia owners - so keep it coming !!                                                                                                                                                Neil.... this last point..... I'm a bit lost for the right words and I had better pick them carefully!  After your declaring your long term interest in Fulvias, I don't know how we've never spoken before as, lets just say i've been (trying) to help owners for quite a while now...... Perhaps I will P.M. you. As I have stated on many occasion, (often) such is the size and complexity of a problem, that I find it a whole lot easier to "download" advice on the phone. Perhaps I just need a bigger megaphone! I'm sure no offence intended and certainly none taken. Keep up the good work and don't be afraid to take a little bit longer (on the restoration) - health is everything.  Chris

[ncundy]

Hi Chris,
Firstly thanks for taking the time to reply. Secondly please be assured that the comments I wrote were not intended to cause offence nor were they directed at anyone inparticular. I just feel that the more techy information and banter (from anyone) on this site the better (hence my comment "keep it coming")- over time I believe it will make the LMC even more important to it's members (and attractive to prospective members). It is impossible for anyone to put all their knowledge down in writing and of course every problem has a context which should be understood before a reply is given.
Anyone who is prepared to give advice by what ever means they feel is appropriate has my support and respect - and that especially applies to those like yourself who allow their name and details to be published.
Again apologies if it offended - certainly not the intention
Regards
Neil

[ColinMarr]

I have been following this thread with interest. Neil’s restoration project looks fantastic and I am full of admiration and envy. Chris’s advice about getting the pipework in before committing the subframe rings true! I replaced the fuel lines on my Fulvia S1 Sport a couple of years ago and it was struggle to get it all through the minimal space between subframe and front edge of floor. In my case I was trying to get in two pipes, one for flow and one for return – this because my car has been modified to take a late-type S2 flow-and-return system.

Not wishing to teach grandmas to suck eggs, but it might be worth questioning whether a Fanalone (presumably all S1) had only flow and no return! If so, it might be worth considering providing two pipes because a fully re-flowing system is likely to be better than a simple one-way system. I use an S1 fuel tank, which has no provision for return and have arranged the return to go via a pipe connector drilled into the tank filler pipe just below the main filler cap. It works well.

Colin   

[chris]

Dear Colin     Yes, strong TYGTSE undertones here if your post had been addressed to me alone, but i'm glad to say it isnt!, (addressed solely to me) and besides, i've been following a few of YOUR threads and I can see you are quite an expert at it, so why stop now!! (please take with a pinch of  low sodium). It would be nice for Forum readers to learn more about your Zagato special, about the pros and cons of the car, what you have had to do to it etc.       Anyway back to the plot :-   Some late S1 cars were fitted with the "bleed back" fuel return pipe before it became a standard fitment on S2 on.  You'll know(?) that it's a "must have" mod for any Series 1 car that doesn't come with it as standard, it being necessary to prevent the needle valves in the carburettors being constantly subjected to excessive fuel pressure at tickover**, the (mechanical) fuel pump benefits to some extent also. The previous solution to this (standard on 1600's*) being the fitment of a Malpassi Filter King (or equiv).                          If you look carefully at Neil's picture :- Stage 2 dscf1217.jpeg,  Colin, I think you will be able to see that Neil's car is already blessed with a bleedback (smaller) fuel pipe.   * So either way, no need to worry Colin!   ** this can,in the worst case scenario, lead to carburettor flooding.  Best Regards Chris

[eyore]

Apologies in advance if this is a silly question ,but in view of the above post re fuel return does this mod also  apply to my early 1.2 S1 with Solex carbs that I am restoring?

[ncundy]

As Chris said, I am blessed with the return pipe. I wasn't aware that the earlier cars never had them - but I have never seen a 1600 without them, including cars earlier than mine - maybe they were the first fitment? Unfortunately the TAV's that I have are not much help in this regard - they just show the twin pipe arrangement with no clue on any break point.
Neil

[ColinMarr]

Neil,

Sorry if I seem to have doubted the thoroughness of your work, which was absolutely not intended! But I note that I am not the first respondent who didn’t look closely enough at the photos to see if at least one pipe is visible!

My car started life as an early S1 Sport 1.3 and I had assumed (wrongly it seems) that all S1 cars needed to be modified to take a return pipe. If it was standard on a 1.6, where does the return feed get back to the tank? Surely not through a pipe connector fitted into the filler pipe, which is how it is done on my car!

Keep it up,

Colin

[ncundy]

Far too much apologising on this thread for me !!
The return pipe enters the tank via a boss next to the boss for the supply line, on the off-side underside of the tank. This is different again from what is shown in my TAV's which seem to show the supply line being taken from the top of the fuel sender unit ? When I get to stage 571 (removing the fuel tank) I guess I shall be a bit wiser ! I'll take a couple of photos and stick them up when time permits.
Neil

[chris]

Dear All Firstly, eyore - yes this mod could be done to your car (as the bleedback pipe was not fitted as standard on your car). The easiest way is to route it in via the fuel sender unit on the top of the tank, there are several ways of doing this - please ring for more details about actual modification to fuel sender as this is a safety related mod as you can appreciate!    Colin - do you know what your car was originally? (this is SO much easier on the phone!) - - - - unless it was an "S" (which could have also had a servo as std etc) then it would have not had a fuel return (bleedback) pipe or the FISPA inline fuel filter/control valve. Your fitment which enters via the fuel sender unit is almost certainly* non std (*this reply to save more lengthy,hard to explain un-ambiguously, rambling by me). As I believe Neil has said, this smaller pipe, when fitted as standard*, normally entered the tank right next to the main feed pipe, and was also soldered in place. (one of the many things to inspect when checking a tank, this soldering can become fractured (particularly the larger pipe) with a predictable result, hard to see if actually fractured and the tank "dry", but fairly easy(and too late!) to find once you "fill her up".  Neil - what year is your car - and have you got a "piggyback gearbox or is it an early two-halves type?   Keep the apologies coming, I say! Chris (with tongue firmly in cheek).*applies to sport and coupe - sedans could have the return pipe routed to the sender unit.

[ncundy]

Car was built late 1969 and first registered to a Docter in Rome on 31st Jan 1970 - chassis # 461. It has the piggyback gearbox and standard (Solex 42mm) engine. Recorded mileage is 10,500 km (~7,000 miles). I have been unable as yet to confirm this with the ASI but the condition of car (no wear to interior, brake discs, any components really and the complete absense of damage to the underside) suggest it has had little use. The previous owner (ex-colonel in the Italian Air Force) owned it since the mid 80's and confirmed he hardley ever used it - although he did have an ex-works car as well !!

[chris]

Very nice too.

[ncundy]

Time for another update:
Rear suspension is now finished and installed awaiting setting up when I have a bit more weight in the car.
All items stripped, shot blasted and stove enamelled
springs measured, re-packed and painted
all new bushes (Omicron)
wheel bearings stripped and re-packed
new shocks (Spax)

Generally a reasonably straight foward nut and bolt job although the wheel bearing retaining nuts were a sod to get off. Patience and brute force won the day. A few special tools were made to remove and re-install the bearings and some of the bushes.

A note on the anti-role bar bushes: I found one of them was not a nice fit on the dowled bolt and I had to clean the inner steel sleeve of the bush up with a small stone and a Dremmel. This is important as if they are not free to rotate the bush will tear as it is not designed to work radially. One of mine was badly torn when I removed it because of this (pin had siezed) and there was consequential damage on the other bushes. A small point but if anyone has this to bits easy to check off the car, not so easy on the car !

I have put some new photos up

here

Next jobs are the fuel tank  (clean, interior coat and repaint) and interior, but I am having problems with what to do with some of the dials. The decals need repainting - any ideas welcome.

Regards to all
Neil

[angelorange]

Stirling effort!  Well done!

[fay66]

Wonderful!
 to add a couple of sayings,
'If a picture paints a thousand words'

'Where there's a will there's a way'
Re rear springs, what was the state of the spring interleaving like? was it reusable?

Great example and guide to those of us who may have to do the same sometime in the future. We could do with more of this, very constructive, in more ways than one.

Mind, I'm not sure if I could handle your temporary transport that's parked in the garage

Brian Hilton
8227