Lancia Sales...

[toby2449]

ok thought i'd do a monthly feature on Lancia sales in Europe, the figures are taken from Automotive News Europe, who get their data from JATO Dynamics.

Although sales figures for makes are released mid way through the following month, the more detail figures of make & model take longer so come out. So yesterday in the post i received the figures for jan-sep 2007

model.........2006.......2007..........change
Musa.........26543.....30591..........+4048
Phedra........3812.......3329............-483
Thesis..........745.........815.............+70
Ypsilon.......59378.....62229..........+2851
"other"..........835.........20.............-815

total...........91313....96984..........+5671

as you can see without the Ypsilon or Musa Lancia would be dead in the water! The Musa actually outsells the Fiat Idea its based on (having sold 22155 jan-sep07), and i can't remember the last time that happened! Sadly the Thesis just doesn't get the recognition it deserves, but it has outsold the Alfa 166 (706 jan-sep)!

For the Fiat Group the best selling car so far this year is the Grande Punto @ 305547, which is also the best selling car in its class in Europe!

Whilst 56416 people have bought Fiat's Bravo this year, 14426 have bought a Stilo!!!!!!!!!!!!WHY!

[Scarpia]

Whilst 56416 people have bought Fiat's Bravo this year, 14426 have bought a Stilo!!!!!!!!!!!!WHY!

Assuming you mean, why would anyone buy a Stilo?, then its presumably due to discounting showroom models to clear stock for the Bravo.As the owner of a stilo abarth I can assure you though that there is nothing wrong with them and in the 3 door version it's appearance is much more agressively sporting than the rather soft looking Bravo I think.Mine is black with a black/white leather interior and always attracts positve comments.Its only a 1.9 multijet diesel but has 140 hp and virtually as much torque as our old 2.4jtd kappa.

Looks very nice, is quick round the streets, fabulous at speed on the motorway and  60+ to the gallon.What do you want....?

[Harvey]

Scarpia, I salute your choice. After all, if we weren't all fans of "unconventional" cars, would we be on this forum? So, you have the all those advantages listed and a car that is a rare sight on the road 

[toby2449]

Whilst 56416 people have bought Fiat's Bravo this year, 14426 have bought a Stilo!!!!!!!!!!!!WHY!

Assuming you mean, why would anyone buy a Stilo?, then its presumably due to discounting showroom models to clear stock for the Bravo.As the owner of a stilo abarth I can assure you though that there is nothing wrong with them and in the 3 door version it's appearance is much more agressively sporting than the rather soft looking Bravo I think.Mine is black with a black/white leather interior and always attracts positve comments.Its only a 1.9 multijet diesel but has 140 hp and virtually as much torque as our old 2.4jtd kappa.

Looks very nice, is quick round the streets, fabulous at speed on the motorway and  60+ to the gallon.What do you want....?

whilst i accept everyone has their own taste, i can't for the life of me imagine why people would buy a Stilo over a Bravo. The Stilo is old, will have awful resale values meaning in a few years time you won't be able to give it away. It nearly ruined Fiat, Fiat had to relaunch it without all the gizmos a short while after it was launched because they got it so badly wrong! It was Fiat trying to be German! Whilst the 3 door looked ok, the 5 door was awful, it had no flair, & from what i see & hear its not reliable either!

Ok i admire your brave choice, but for me Stilo represented all that was wrong with Fiat.

[timuth]

The Stilo is old, will have awful resale values meaning in a few years time you won't be able to give it away.

I think you will find that is most Fiats not just the Stilo...having just sold our Marea 2.4 TD HLX.

What FIAT need is the revival like what Alfa had with the 156, hopefully they will with the new 500 + Grand Punto.

[toby2449]

I think you will find that is most Fiats not just the Stilo...having just sold our Marea 2.4 TD HLX.

What FIAT need is the revival like what Alfa had with the 156, hopefully they will with the new 500 + Grand Punto.

well the marea was a "large" Fiat, & it was never going to hold its value at all, the trade doesn't like large Fiats, one of the reasons why the Croma is well down on last year (19904-2007 vs 28360-2006)

But the 156 didn't give Alfa that revival, yes it helped them sell more cars, but if you're unlukcy enough to have a 156 & trade it in for something else outside the Fiat Group then yet again you can't give it away, dealerships don't want 156's either, & thats why the 159 isn't selling as well as Fiat hoped, too many people got burned with the 156, and aren't going back to Alfa for more.

[Scarpia]

I cannot speak for the uk market but italian cars tend to have poor residual prices.Have done as long as I can remember.Lets be honest its not for reasons of financial prudence that one buys an alfa 166, Kappa or a Thesis.
On the other hand we ran a doblo for 3 years, having bought it for 6000 euro from a dealer with 6k on the clock.we sold it privately for over 4800 ! best value we've ever had.

I find it amusing that you make such a distinction between a stilo and a bravo.The king is dead long live the king I say.The Bravo is a good car but it will also seem a bit out of fashion in 5 years when its replacement comes along and chunky lines are "in" again.

As you said it's a question of taste and I actually find the new Bravos nice but a little bland.lets face it neither are a fulvia , aprilia, etc

[fay66]

Must admit I've grown to appreciate the Stilo, particularily the SW after a ride from Turin Airport in a very high spec taxi with the skydome fitted, it was a 2.4jtd and was a flying machine in an Italian taxi drivers hands

I also like the square lines on the 5 door & the 3 door Abarth looks great.

Having just got the Grande Punto, I was looking at the Bravo in the dealers & at first sight apart from the size, it's very much in the mould of the Grande Punto, & without looking at the Bravo nameplate it could easily be mistaken for a Gr Punto.
One thing my wife picked up on today with the Gr Punto, why no badges on it surely a bad marketing feature, there is nothing to distinguish an Active from a Dynamic or a Sport Why?  with ours the only way you can tell what engine it has is by a small multijet badge buried at the bottom of the grille, nothing else seems to be distinguished in any way on the other models, how can you indulge in a bit of one upmanship if no one can tell what you're driving

[peterbaker]

Fiat Group have always designed and built cars, not for export, but to satisfy their home market unlike, say BMW who from the word go concentrated on capturing overseas trade. My Alfa Romeo for example has an abundance of irrating features that are probably quite acceptable to the Italians. A good example being the climate control system that refuses to function until the ambient temperature exceeds five degrees. Frustrating in the extreme to someone who often leaves the car outside and has to make very early starts. The inner windscreen just refuses to de-mist. Also, and perhaps even more annoying is the impossibility to introduce cool air from the face level vents, meaning the interior quickly fugs up, making things quite unbearable until a side window is opened.
From a depreciation point of view the buyer reaps what he sows. Big front end discounts means the car is looking for its natural retail price. If the customer receives
  -20% at the point of purchase then he/she should expect that to be reflected in its exchange value after three years. My 147 was bought through a car supermarket as a 'pre-reg. zero mileage' option, saving £4500 over list. After my tenure it will probably make around half what I paid which after three years is a loss (?) of £5500. Not so bad. Buying any new car, lets face it is a foolish thing to do.

[Scarpia]

pain in the backside these italian cars eh..

why don't we boycott and all go and join the volvo owners club.There is a lot to be said for it when the only problem is being bored by ownership I guess.

[peterbaker]

Its not that easy. Volvo are not as boring as you think. Boring is driving a 500bhp car within the ridiculous legal 70mph motorway limit at three in the morning.

[Kevin MacBride]

I'm probably going to be unpopular for this, but I cannot see the point of Lancia 'returning' in RHD. As I am in Ireland and work for a Fiat/Alfa Dealership, we have a hard time shifting Fiats and Alfas never mind a NEW brand. For example we probably sold maybe 1 or 2 Cromas. Fiat could easily have stuck a Lancia badge on that car it would have saved them the bother of building a NEW Lancia. I cannot see the point of the MUSA, its basically an upmarket IDEA.
Dont get me wrong, the Fulvetta if it goes into production will be a nice looking car. The new Delta, I dont know, if the BRAVO does not sell well, why will the DELTA.
I've watched FIAT over the past 10 years change their Logo so many times its hard to tell a Fiat from one era to the next. Its as if they cannot make up their mind about their own product.
The resale values are also a problem. You can buy, over here, a 156 for as little as 1000 Euros or less. However a timing belt change for such a car could cost 800 Euros.
If Fiat get it wrong, and they have a habit of doing so, they could ruin the Lancia name beyond saving. Dont know if this is popular knowledge yet, but the new BRAVO in Australia will be known as the RITMO, which people in the UK will remember as the STRADA.
Maybe Fiat will call the next new Lancia the Beta for the hell of it. I can imagine TOP GEAR having a field day with that.
Oh and by the way I do own a Lancia, a real one before Fiat got their hands on the company.......

[fensaddler]

I think the answer is that they have sold well in mainland Europe in recent years - largely because Lancia now appear to be able to build cars that do meet the needs and aspirations of export markets.  The Musa and Ypsilon, both very successful, and the former outselling its Fiat counterpart, may be based on Fiat platforms, but they are different enough to be perceived as such, and to sell to a different market segment.  There is no reason to think that the trick cannot be repeated for the new Delta.

[ncundy]

Oh and by the way I do own a Lancia, a real one before Fiat got their hands on the company.......

Here, have one of these   

[Scarpia]

only one careful owner (Mr O.Fogey)