Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress

[nthomas1]

Norman the small screws you are talking about, were they where the felt for the drop glass is attached horizontally along the bottom of the window aperture? if yes, then they were fitted by the factory, I did my drivers door years ago, an in the end I lost patience and stuck the felt strip on as I couldn't pick up the holes, I should have persevered as glueing didn't work very well.
Brian
8227  

No Brian, these are ones that hold the long trim section along the top of the door aperture, and which overlaps the roof rail.  I'm pretty sure they are non standard. You can see one of the positions on the left edge in this picture. I think they were fitted by a previous owner because the inner portion of the trim didn't sit properly for some reason.  Fortunately, Simon is sending me some small screws that will hopefully do the job.  

The ones that you refer to are on the window scrapers.  They'll be interesting to fit!  On the S2 Coupe the scrapers were originally stapled in place.  I know that Omicron use very small self tappers that disappear into the "fur", and I'll hopefully be able to get a supply from them.

[nthomas1]

Today’s question! When fitting trim directly to the car bodywork, such as these sill strips, should I put anything in between, like silicone for example?

[Neil]

A good question, mine have never been re-fitted fully since my restoration, I did considering fixing them with a little tiger seal, then stick dummy screw heads in the trim screw holes rather than drill extra holes in the top of the box section.

[fay66]

Norman the small screws you are talking about, were they where the felt for the drop glass is attached horizontally along the bottom of the window aperture? if yes, then they were fitted by the factory, I did my drivers door years ago, an in the end I lost patience and stuck the felt strip on as I couldn't pick up the holes, I should have persevered as glueing didn't work very well.
Brian
8227  

No Brian, these are ones that hold the long trim section along the top of the door aperture, and which overlaps the roof rail.  I'm pretty sure they are non standard. You can see one of the positions on the left edge in this picture. I think they were fitted by a previous owner because the inner portion of the trim didn't sit properly for some reason.  Fortunately, Simon is sending me some small screws that will hopefully do the job.  

The ones that you refer to are on the window scrapers.  They'll be interesting to fit!  On the S2 Coupe the scrapers were originally stapled in place.  I know that Omicron use very small self tappers that disappear into the "fur", and I'll hopefully be able to get a supply from them.

Thanks Norman, no knowledge regarding your  top screws, however my 2c had the same as you describe that Omicron fitted.
I have no doubt Fay hadn't had this scraper channel replaced as she only been on the road 9 years, and as found 27k miles on the clock.
Must admit I'm surprised that you state series 2 Coupe had them stapled on, how did that work as the scraper fits to the door itself?
Brian
8227 

[nthomas1]

Brian, good point. My recollection was inaccurate.  It was the connection of the scraper to the external stainless steel trim strip that I was thinking of, not the scraper to inner door skin. Back on page 9 or thereabouts of this blog I showed pictures of the external scraper with staple holes in the trim strip.

Actually, I can't find any pictures of the inner scraper to see how it was connected, but for sure there aren't any staple holes in the inner door skin, in fact I can't see any screw holes either.  I'm wondering if the scraper was attached to the door trim cap rather than directly to the inner skin. 

[neil-yaj396]

On the Beta Coupe the scraper is spot welded to the trim. The welds often fail and the scraper ends up in the bottom of the door....

[nthomas1]

I found some pictures of my old door tops (the tops themselves are in a box in the loft somewhere!).  So, the answer for the Series 2 Coupe is that the inner scraper was attached (glued?) to the back of the door top, and the outer scraper was stapled to the external stainless steel trim strip.

[lancialulu]

Norman - looking good. Have you fitted your rain gutter yet? If so what tiny screws did you use and what mastic??

Tim

[nthomas1]

Tim - I’ve put them in place temporarily and was hoping for an answer from somebody on the forum to my earlier question as to what kind of sealant or mastic to use between trim like these and, for example, the sill strips.  I’ve read somewhere that the Sikaflex products might be suitable. Any thoughts?

With regard to the screws,  are you referring to the row of holes down the centre line, or the very small holes close to the inside edge? I wasn’t sure if the latter were standard, or were made by a previous owner. They are shown in a photo above.

My thinking on mechanically securing the gutters is as follows:

Firstly the primary fittings along the centre line. I assume screws with fairly flat heads were used originally as the channels have to be kept reasonably clear for the rubber trim to push in. Mine were riveted in place and I think the holes were enlarged. Any screws that I’ve tried with a large enough thread had heads that were way too large, so I was planning to use rivets.

Secondly, the very small holes along the inner edge. I was able to salvage one screw when I disassembled. The head is about 4mm diameter and overall length 6mm and a relatively fine thread (for what is presumably a self tapper). Again, all of my small screws have heads that are too large and/or threads too coarse. Simon Ingham has very kindly put some small screws in the post to me and I’m hoping they’ll be suitable. I couldn’t find anything like them online.

[simonandjuliet]

Hi Norm, the screws are on their way ..... Re mastic, I was introduced to a sealant called ArboMast Autograde when I was looking for a "DumDum" replacement. It doesn't set as such, just forms a thick skin over time and you can lay a good thick bead -I would have a go with this, it isn't expensive

Sikaflex is a pain to unstick and although there is a non setting sika it is very messy !!

Simon INGMAN (sorry to correct you !)

[lancialulu]

Norman

I was testing the water for suitable supplies of those small screws I think I went down to my fastner supplier and matched a sample but that was 14 years ago and fastners have consolidated so much more limited range. I am with Simon on Sikaflex. Its good for certain obs like the front trim on the bonnet, but all I was looking for on the gutters was a flexible, manipulative, sealant to seal the gutter to the paint. I was advised windscreen sealer similar to Simon's tube as it was non setting. Only problem was it was very messy. Black goo on a white car (like yours...).

[nthomas1]

Thanks for the advice chaps.  I'll get some of the Arbomast sealant. 

Simon, thanks for sending the screws, and sorry for mis-spelling your surname!

[nthomas1]

Just to complete the earlier discussion on scrapers/weatherstrips.  I took a close look at my old top-of-door pads which still have the internal scrapers attached.  I had thought they were glued in place, but on closer examination I found the very small screw heads hidden in the fur, though I had to cut away the fur to find them.  With liberal applications of WD40 I was able to remove them for reuse.  They are 6mm long overall and the heads are 3.5mm diameter.  There are 6 each side.

The second photo below shows one of the pads inverted above the top edge of a door in order to show the square cutouts that accommodate the ends of the screws projecting into the part of the pads that hook over the top of the doors.   

[nthomas1]

A pleasant diversion today while I await the arrival of hardware that I need to continue fitting door seals and trim.  I spruced up my handbrake lever cover using the excellent instructions provided by Keven Baines on the forum last year. 

[D5177_55A]

For tiny screws, I normally use:

http://www.modelfixings.co.uk/self_tapping_screws.htm#Brass%20countersunk%20wood%20screws


Stephen