Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress

[lancialulu]

For the Fulvia gutter trim they are stainless and very small self tappers with thread up to the shoulder. Some are countersunk, some are dome/raised depending what came out...

[nthomas1]

Thanks for the link Stephen.

Thanks Tim, that’s what I suspected. As said earlier, the dome headed screws on my car had been replaced with rivets, and it looks like the holes were drilled larger. As a consequence, any screws that I’ve tried have been so large in diameter to fit the holes that the heads protruded too far into the channel that the large section trim fits in. I’ve therefore used 2.4mm rivets. I fitted the first side today, and lightly went over the top of each rivet with a grinding wheel on my Dremel to get a smooth finish.

That thick trim section that the door window glass sits against looks like it will be difficult to fit. It has to be pushed into the channel that is fitted next to the gutter trim. Does anybody have any tips on how to locate it?

[nthomas1]

In between other jobs I’m working my way around the electrical system.  Steep learning curve as it’s all new to me, but I’m enjoying it.  I’ve traced all wires between the dashboard area and rear of car and all seem sound. I’ll do continuity checks next.

A few questions that I could do with some help on are:

1) My car came bumper-less, with number plate lights fastened to the rear panel.  I’m fitting bumpers so could anybody tell me how the wires are routed from the rear light units to the number plate lights in the bumper - i.e what route do the wires take? I know that the left number plate light gets its power from the left rear light, and the other one from the right.   My rear valance is new so there are no witness holes to guide me!

Also, how should the number plate lights be earthed?

2) There’s a Ford flasher unit hanging down under the dashboard - see picture.  I presume it’s activated by one of the pull switches on the dash, and performs the emergency flashing that I assume wasn’t fitted to the car when new.  I’ll trace the wires tomorrow.  My question is whether this is a satisfactory way to achieve flashing functionality on a Fulvia.

3) With regard to wire gauges I see that there are at least four different gauges used on the car.  I can see wires annotated with 4, 2.5, 2 and 1.5 on the wiring diagram.  Are these diameters in millimetres, with unmarked wires being 1mm perhaps?

[Neil]

Norm, the rear number plate lights (black and yellow wires) come under the rear bumper via a hole near the rear stainless trim, this is in the centre of lower panel, they feed down from the rear boot panel below the lock. I’ll send some photos tomorrow, these connect to the rear light clusters via the white multi plug units.

[SanRemo78]

If the hazard lights work with that relay then leave it as is? Except the installation looks horrendous. There are bare live connectors visible so you'd need to find a relay holder and the proper connectors with a locking tab to secure them in the holder. I'd also be checking the other ends of the cables to see how they're connected in to the Lancia loom in case that's been botched too..

Sorry about the previous reply for the number plate lights, sounds like you may have to drill that pristine panel. If there's no hole yet use a sharp step drill, paint the exposed steel and use a grommet..

Guy

[nthomas1]

Neil - thanks for that information.  The photo you mentioned would be much appreciated.  From the wiring diagram it looks like the left number plate light is fed by a white wire from the left rear light cluster, and the right by a white and black wire from the boot light, which in turn is fed by a white and black wire from the right rear light cluster.   The two black earth wires presumably are fastened to the boot surface.  I seem to recall an earthing point on the central vertical strengthening beam at the rear of the boot (just below the boot lock).

Guy - a quick look on Amazon and Ebay shows only large relay holders/boxes that accommodate 6 or more relays.  Any suggestions for a source of a small one that holds just one relay?  As you suggest, I plan to carefully inspect where the flasher is wired into the loom.  There seems to be a more than a few bodges - and I've identified four or five wires that hang loose and are not connected to anything!  Will need to investigate these.

[SanRemo78]

Drop by anytime Norm - I'll dig one out and put it on the gatepost with a cuppa! Social distancing and all that!
Guy

[nthomas1]

Thanks Guy - I'll give you a call.

[nthomas1]

Some more questions about my electrics, related to the earlier flasher/relay discussion.  There's a photo below, and a sketch with letters that I'll refer to.

A - The flasher unit (Relay), a Ford product, badly connected!
B - The flasher is earthed via a black wire to the bracket holding device B.  What is this device?  It is not connected to anything.
C - What is bracket C for?  It has 2 red wires coming from it that disappear into the loom behind the instrument panel. Looks like something should be there.
D - The red wire from the flasher has been lengthened using a female spade connector, then disappears into the main loom.
E - The white wire from the flasher routes via the red junction block to the stalk at right of steering column.
F - Note that there are three wires hanging down on left of picture that are not connected: a double black and a white.

There are other disconnected wires the other side of the steering column that I'll have to investigate.  Non-standard things done by the previous owner include: fitting a Trip Master to the dashboard, electronic ignition, and an electric Facet fuel pump.

So, in summary, can anybody tell me what device B is, and whether there should be anything installed at bracket C, both of which are on the bulkhead at the top of the driver footwell?

[SanRemo78]

C looks like a flasher unit to me but I'm no Fulvia expert. The other bracket looks like one found on the Beta, for an accessory rechargeable torch?

Guy

[Neil]

C is the plug in torch accessory socket

[Jaydub]

Hi Norm, B is a Flasher relay, ( probably replaced by the Ford unit to work Hazards)  C is a live socket for a rechargeable torch I think which has been a topic before. D is a live to power the Ford flasher unit and I would think the white is the feed from the flasher switch to operate the unit and Black wires are usually earths.  Reds are normally live feeds and Whites are usually Ignition fed . I have started on my 1600 HF restoration and will confirm tomorrow.  Relay sockets, connectors, wiring etc all available from " Vehicle Wiring Products" Ilkeston, Derbyshire.
Hope that helps.

[nthomas1]

Thanks John.  So would the original only have handled basic turn-signal flashing as opposed to separate operation of emergency hazard flashing?  I can't seem to find the original relay in the wiring diagram!

Interestingly, I have two wiring diagrams, one is titled "Coupe Wiring Diagram", and the other is titled "Coupe Wiring Diagram (on cars intended for countries where the fitting of emergency signalling is required)".  My car seems to match up with the former.   

[Sliding Pillar]

The S2 Fulvia coupes did not have hazard flashers, this came in with the S3.
From memory the Hazard flashers on the S3 were operated from the switch on the top right of the fuse panel, this had a red ring around it as opposed to the S2 cars where this switch allowed operation of the headlamp full beam and had the amber ring like all the other switches. (UK cars only)

[nthomas1]

Thank you Ade, that answers a few questions for me.  Firstly, it confirms that I'm using the correct wiring diagram.  Secondly, it points to the likelihood that the Ford flasher unit was installed to perform the same function as the original (presumed faulty/broken, as it is disconnected).  Someone has suggested the Ford unit has been installed to also provide hazard flashing - but surely that would need more than a device with 3 connectors, so I'm inclined to think I've still just got basic stalk operated indicator flashing.  Does that make sense?

I've been working my way around the wiring diagram. The flasher appears to be Number 64, labelled "Direction Indicator Flasher". Strangely it shows 3 terminals: L for the white wire, a + sign for the red, and a third one labelled P but with nothing attached to it. Does not show an earth, but should I assume that is where the earth attaches.  Certainly both the old OEM and the new (Ford) devices have 3 spade terminals each, and the Ford one has a black earth wire attached.